Alendor Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Consider the ill advised throw that Jake threw that was intercepted by Barber in the Tampa game and Phil Dawsons missed field goal in the KC game and one could argue the Browns could easily be well above .500 for the season. JTIOT ya, but you also have to assume holmgren will take into account the other sides too. like how poor clock management in the last 2 games coulda meant a win. last game for example if he managed the clock better and didn't go into the half with 2 timeouts, we would have ad a td instead of a fg. team woulda been motivated and we woulda been within one score, instead of a td and fg to die the game at the end. while there were pleanty of instances where an errased mistake by a player coulda meant a win, the same can be said about coaching mistakes, and those have to be taken into account aswell. I loved mangini when we picked him up, still do like him. however it doesn't look good for him, as hes not producing results, sticking with a crappy OC, and holmgren likely wants to bring in his own guy. regardless of wether or not he should be fired, or deservers it, the cards are stacked against him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 I really think some of you have to be friends or relatives of Mangini. That is the only way to understand your loyalty.. "I am beginning to think you have demensia!" It's dementia, FWIW. and when I have to call out the spelling police, that's about as low as I've ever sunk. Dr. Hoorta thinks you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder in regards to Gruden- or you're related to him. Gruden isn't even necessarily the best available option from a coaching standpoint- I'd take Fisher or Fox over him- their resumes are equally impressive. A couple of things to keep in mind (courtesy of AOL) WRREBEL when you consider "celebrity'' coaches, notably Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher: No coach who has won a Super Bowl has ever won a second with a new team (and Mike Shanahan doesn't look like he's about to win anything soon.) Example: Bill Parcells kept going a level lower at each stop -- two Super Bowl wins with the Giants; a Super Bowl loss with the Patriots; an AFC championship game with the Jets; and a one-and-done in the playoffs with the Cowboys. Loyalty? Bulls**t. I want stability. Mangini happens to have a plan, just doesn't have enough horses yet to pull it off. If Holmgren decides Mangini isn't the answer I'll defer to his (far better) judgment than mine. And trust me I won't shed a tear if Eric walks the plank. I will say this- if Mangini (assuming he's still here) doesn't produce a significant number of wins say about nine- next year, then I'll be totally in favor of canning him. What I find really amazing is the short attention span of the Can-gini crowd. There hasn't been a coach in recent (1999) Browns history that's been given such a short leash by a segment of the fanbase. Not Palmer, not Davis, not Crennell- you mean to tell me in your mind(s) EMs worse than any of those? . The NY anti-Mangini bias got picked up by ESPN, then Grossi & company, and then the lapdogs that are burned out and want instant gratification. Mangini Has Players support MorningGlory for coach? I'd have to shoot myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 also, if i was 12 i dont think i would know vanilla ice.. I don't think it makes it right either way. You're officially gay. I don't think I've ever wanted to ban a Browns fan from here before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Not Palmer, not Davis, not Crennell- you mean to tell me in your mind(s) EMs worse than any of those? Very good point Hoorta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Consider the ill advised throw that Jake threw that was intercepted by Barber in the Tampa game and Phil Dawsons missed field goal in the KC game and one could argue the Browns could easily be well above .500 for the season. JTIOT What about the Stuckey fumble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillis4prez420 Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 To whomever was saying Cowher would never coach here: I must say it is an invalid statement. I am in no way saying that he will be our coach any time soon, but he did in fact play and coach for the Browns during his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROWNandORANGE Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Making a Vanilla Ice reference? Wow. Now I know you are either a Steeler troll or 12 years old. Hey! Vanilla Ice lives in my buddy's neighborhood. He's a boss lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Dick Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Sadly, another football season goes bye bye -- and Sadly, we are still talking about the same old same old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Good post, Bringbackbrownie, we basically agree First Mangini inherited the crap Sewage left him and did admrably to make it competitive true.. we agree But staying in games and losing is not winning that's what happens when you play defensive football no thats what happens when you don't have enough talent and you are still in the rebuilding process... my statement is true and so is yours Holmgren knows offensive football wins championships He knows that a team needs talent to win championships.. you don't need the best offense in the league, but 30th in offense aint gonna cut it... we agree on talent and offensive talent is most important to win championships in the NFL 2010 my guess is he will create an offensive team to just that..............with a coach who thinks likewise......... He could no doubt hire a new coach that specializes in offense but that doesn't mean that he will ignore the defense. this isn't college football... We violently agree. I never said he will ignore defense or that a crappy defense is acceptable. Winning coaches know a good defense is required but a really good offense is required. and Heckert is already onboard fair enough again we agree Seems to me like we are on the same basic page all around. And that is why my gut tells me Holmgren will have a new coach next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 No. Rubin isn't a pass rusher, he is used to plug up holes... We need a 3-4 to compete in the AFC North. We need a solid pass rusher and more depth up front- but we are on our way... The 3-4 is predicated on four outstanding LB's who are complete players and three DL's who can hold the line of scrimmage. The Browns did not have that when they switched and still do not. It was an ill advised switch with the then and current personnel. I think the 3-4 is an overall better D than the 4-3 but the personnel should dictate which you play. Belichick has used both mostly 3-4 but 4-3 when his personnel suited it better. Good coaches adapt game plans and schemes to their people and rebuild with people that fit best in their preferred game strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 "I am beginning to think you have demensia!" It's dementia, FWIW. and when I have to call out the spelling police, that's about as low as I've ever sunk. Dr. Hoorta thinks you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder in regards to Gruden- or you're related to him. Gruden isn't even necessarily the best available option from a coaching standpoint- I'd take Fisher or Fox over him- their resumes are equally impressive. A couple of things to keep in mind (courtesy of AOL) WRREBEL when you consider "celebrity'' coaches, notably Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher: No coach who has won a Super Bowl has ever won a second with a new team (and Mike Shanahan doesn't look like he's about to win anything soon.) Example: Bill Parcells kept going a level lower at each stop -- two Super Bowl wins with the Giants; a Super Bowl loss with the Patriots; an AFC championship game with the Jets; and a one-and-done in the playoffs with the Cowboys. Loyalty? Bulls**t. I want stability. Mangini happens to have a plan, just doesn't have enough horses yet to pull it off. If Holmgren decides Mangini isn't the answer I'll defer to his (far better) judgment than mine. And trust me I won't shed a tear if Eric walks the plank. I will say this- if Mangini (assuming he's still here) doesn't produce a significant number of wins say about nine- next year, then I'll be totally in favor of canning him. What I find really amazing is the short attention span of the Can-gini crowd. There hasn't been a coach in recent (1999) Browns history that's been given such a short leash by a segment of the fanbase. Not Palmer, not Davis, not Crennell- you mean to tell me in your mind(s) EMs worse than any of those? . The NY anti-Mangini bias got picked up by ESPN, then Grossi & company, and then the lapdogs that are burned out and want instant gratification. Mangini Has Players support MorningGlory for coach? I'd have to shoot myself. Just to follow up on the MASSIVELY overratd Parcells he HAS NEVER won a playoff without Bill Belichick on his staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Just to follow up on the MASSIVELY overratd Parcells he HAS NEVER won a playoff without Bill Belichick on his staff So? Belichick never won a SB without Mangini on his staff... Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 So? Belichick never won a SB without Mangini on his staff... Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 All you have to do is go back and look at ANY Browns game or games from before Mangini got here to see that the guy is rebuilding this the right way. No HC is right 100 percent of the time, the difference is, most teams have the talent to overcome "bad calls"; we don't. He should get one more year with better talent. If he goes 1-5, then fire him. But I for one do not want to see another tear down and rebuild of this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 All you have to do is go back and look at ANY Browns game or games from before Mangini got here to see that the guy is rebuilding this the right way. No HC is right 100 percent of the time, the difference is, most teams have the talent to overcome "bad calls"; we don't. He should get one more year with better talent. If he goes 1-5, then fire him. But I for one do not want to see another tear down and rebuild of this team. When are you ppl gonna understand...Its Heckert and Holmgren building the team...not Mandoodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cddbrowns Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 When are you ppl gonna understand...Its Heckert and Holmgren building the team...not Mandoodoo. Then why even hire another HC? Just let them play for themselves while Holmgren and Heckert build it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsFan4Evr Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Keep Mangini, and for Pete's sake, get a NEW OC, and give him SOMETHING to work with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Hey! Vanilla Ice lives in my buddy's neighborhood. He's a boss lol What trailer park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Keep Mangini, and for Pete's sake, get a NEW OC, and give him SOMETHING to work with! Yeah lets keep Mandoodoo so we can keep playing for FG's...no thanks...I want a coach with a winner mentallity...Mandoodoo doesnt quite get that...If you listened to coach Sam on the point after last night he said it best...Mangini plays for FG's in a touchdown league and he couldnt have been more right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 When are you ppl gonna understand...Its Heckert and Holmgren building the team...not Mandoodoo. Mangini should get a ton of credit (and respect) for cleaning house and setting the table for Holmgren & Heckert. All coaches before him went for the quick fix, kept things running poorly as usual and tweaked. Mangini cleaned the locker room up with wholesale changes, ousted the pre-Madonna's and high salaries and paved the way for Heckert & Holmgren to come in and build on the foundation. Mangini did the heavy lifting so far, give the guy a chance. I think he derserves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Mangini will certainly be gone.. http://firemangini.epetitions.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Mangini will certainly be gone.. http://firemangini.epetitions.net/ OOOooohhhhh ... not the big internet 'epetition'. I bet Holmgren has just been waiting for this suportive online document in order to have the balls to make this move. (At the top of the page it reads, "2 people signed the petition since October 30, 2009") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Mangini will certainly be gone.. http://firemangini.epetitions.net/ Sweet 2 down, 3 to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 OOOooohhhhh ... not the big internet 'epetition'. I bet Holmgren has just been waiting for this suportive online document in order to have the balls to make this move. (At the top of the page it reads, "2 people signed the petition since October 30, 2009") Haha I know so dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Mangini will certainly be gone.. http://firemangini.epetitions.net/ i like the note at the top: 2 people have signed this petition since october 2009. big impact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 i like the note at the top: 2 people have signed this petition since october 2009. big impact! Yeah I'm prety sure braylon edwards started the petition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Mangini should get a ton of credit (and respect) for cleaning house and setting the table for Holmgren & Heckert. All coaches before him went for the quick fix, kept things running poorly as usual and tweaked. Mangini cleaned the locker room up with wholesale changes, ousted the pre-Madonna's and high salaries and paved the way for Heckert & Holmgren to come in and build on the foundation. Mangini did the heavy lifting so far, give the guy a chance. I think he derserves it. I cant give someone a chance that consistently puts the team in postition to lose...Ive seen enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Does anyone know if the 49ers would have to compensate us? http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/55520...Francisco_49ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Does anyone know if the 49ers would have to compensate us? http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/55520...Francisco_49ers who the F is: Brian Murtaugh (Browns Featured Columnist)? sounds like another wannabe journalist who writes jibberish from his basement. more conjecture. no matter what side you fall on (fire mangini/pro-mangini) i guess we'll find out soon enough what will happen with this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackbrownie2 Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Seems to me like we are on the same basic page all around. And that is why my gut tells me Holmgren will have a new coach next year Well ok I took your comments to mean you were for everything offense and that defense was an afterthought.. I think everyone can agree that Daboll is gone no matter what.. Mangini could be gone in a little over a week too, but maybe Holmgren would help Mangini find a better offensive coordinator. Everyone seemed to think Mangini was fired last year, so maybe it won't happen this year either? I really don't know. We will find out soon enough... Ryan stays unless he gets a head coach offer (I bet he has to wait another year or two). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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