Bye Bye Mangini

[bringbackbrownie2]

I want a coach that will wear his heart on his sleeve, like Rex Ryan. A coach that isn't afraid to take risks, plays aggressively, and doesn't bullshit, just tells it the way it is.

 

These are all pretty much the opposite of Mangini. Mangini is the king of bullshit.

 

I wouldn't call Mangini the king of bullshit... He is just overly conservative with his playcalling. What I don't get is what happened to the aggressive playcalling that won both the saints and patriot games? There were a bunch of trick plays and we went for it on 4th down a few times. After that, we seemed to go back to ultra conservative playcalling. And I am mostly talking about our offense here.

 

I like Rex Ryan to some extent, but I don't want a coach that says "we will win the Super Bowl next year." He really looked stupid after that game vs. the pats on monday night. He is just too arrogant. You can be confident, outgoing, and coach an aggressive game, but don't make rediculous predictions... especially when you can't back them up (obviously I will eat my words if they win it all but I highly doubt it).

[BROWNandORANGE]

What I don't get is what happened to the aggressive playcalling that won both the saints and patriot games?

 

Exactly! He knows he is going to be fired, so why the hell didn't we go for it on 4th and goal when were down 14-0? He clearly has nothing to lose!

 

And what I mean as "The King of Bullshit" is during his press conferences and interviews, he is so non-direct when answering questions and tries desperately to avoid questions that he does not want to answer.

[bringbackbrownie2]

Exactly! He knows he is going to be fired, so why the hell didn't we go for it on 4th and goal when were down 14-0? He clearly has nothing to lose!

 

And what I mean as "The King of Bullshit" is during his press conferences and interviews, he is so non-direct when answering questions and tries desperately to avoid questions that he does not want to answer.

 

That's the Bellicheck way... A lot of coaches do this actually. And in a way, it makes sense. Otherwise, the media can use what you said and twist it in a way that you had not intended.

 

For example, today the media asked a stupid question about why we had not improved as much as the Chiefs, Rams, and Buccaneers. He didn't really answer this question because he loses no matter how he answers it. If he says it is because of our lack of talent or his coaching it reflects badly on him, and if he tells the truth (see below) he comes across as whiney and full of excuses...

 

Plus, those three teams have had cupcake schedules. St. Louis has beaten 1 team with a winning record (the chargers). Tampa Bay has beaten 1 team with a winning record (the saints). Again, the Chiefs have beaten 1 team with a winning record (the chargers). We had the 3rd toughest schedule and still beat 2 winning football teams (saints, patriots) and were in a ton of close games...

 

[Nuck81]

We sure have some dumbass fans....

[rich4eagle]

Well Mangini is gone and I sure would like to see Gary Patterson

[BROWNandORANGE]

Well Mangini is gone and I sure would like to see Gary Patterson

 

I don't care if we hire Zombo as HC, TheClevelandSound as OC, and ATENEARS as DC, let's just win!

[rich4eagle]

I believe you mean encroachment?

 

Shaun Rogers

 

I said we should never have signed that fat ass and I said two years ago to trade him and again last spring and then said cut the bum in preseason.........but it was me against Browns fandom......

 

He sucks goodbye.

 

I hate seeing crap faster than our management

[rich4eagle]

Hines Ward

 

952 catches 13 years and blocks as good as Joe Thomas.....we need smiling players like him......

 

a winner......

[rich4eagle]

There's alot of speculation right now on what will happen in a few days with our Browns. Some of

the speculation is Grudens getting a Brownie The Elf tattoo on his ass, bags packed waiting

to take over, some of it is Mike Holmgrens sitting in his office like a wee child a few days

before Christmas, waiting to fire Mangini monday morning and play with his new toy. Only Holmgren and

Heckert know what will happen Monday morning. I do want to point out a few things though, as well as speculate

on my own, then mention a few names to keep in mind.

 

 

The first thing I want to point out is we run the 3-4. Our personnel is the 3-4. Neither Holmgren

nor Gruden have any experience running that type of defense. Converting back to the 4-3 would either

take a massive investment NOW, or slowly building towards going 4-3 later. Part of that transition would

mean running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid for a few years. The only problem with that is.... There's a shortage

of DC's availailable who can successfuly run both and transition it. Don't say Rob Ryan, he has failed

at running both systems. That leaves either sticking with the 3-4(with a head coach inexperienced with

it) or a total overhaul. It's a risky proposition, try what you don't know or rebuild. That

may give Holmgren pause.

 

Which leads me to my second point, Holmgrens point of contention that we're aware of is the offense.

He simply doesn't like the Patriots offensive system. It isn't what he knows and enjoys. He's admitted

once already he wasn't enjoying watching the offense play. This seems to be where his coaching itch

continues to creep into and is what's driving him nuts. Although as he stated, as a coach that's something

you're always going to have, his wanting the offense ran his way. On the surface that sounds good for a

Gruden, or himself, or Mariucci, HOWEVER......

 

When he came in here he kind of took on Mangini as sort of a project. A young head coach he could

mentor a bit. A different kind of challenge. I speculate that's where his head is largely at right now.

He has that itch, no doubt but I think he realizes his taking over as a HC is a short term patch that won't

really be a long term solution. The problem is Mangini is a Belicheat disciple. He also needed to sink or

swim on his own this year. That wasn't a fit from the get go. Differing systems, two experienced HC's,

and the coach needing to prove his bones. But what if.... What if there's a happy medium?

 

I don't see the media even considering this and I have to ask why? What if there's a way for

Holmgren to scratch his coaching itch while mentoring a long term head coach? What if he could sink his

teeth into our offense while not being a short term head coach? What if instead of having to scrap the

entire team again there's a way to mesh the 3-4 defense with the WCO? The media hasn't brought it up

because it isn't sexy so i'm bringing it up. There IS a way. Grab a HC candidate with a strong 3-4 defensive

background and engineer the offense for him. Holmgren would get to scratch his itch while building longterm

and the team wouldn't have to totally rebuild again. A win/win. But where to find that guy. You'd need someone

experienced with running a 3-4 defense that isn't predicated on chewing up the clock running on offense 500

times. There's two candidates popping up in my head over and over that depending on what Holmgren is thinking

HAS TO be on our radar.

 

The first... Jim Harbaugh. He runs the WCO at Standford. He runs a 3-4 defense. He's a young prospect. On the

surface he's really the ultimate candidate for Holmgren. Harbaugh is a younger guy that shares Holmgrens

philosophy without alot of NFL experience, a guy Holmgren can mold into his vision. It gives him a project

that will come in and be on the same page day one. He's the hot candidate for the 'Niners supposedly BUT they're

a worse destination than us. Your rope is half as long and the front office is an utter mess. With us he would get

a solid front office with a President and GM that belong to the same coaching philosophy as he does and honestly?

He's a great fit for the AFCN. I wouldn't be surprised if he's near the top of Holmgrens shortlist.

 

The second guy, and a favorite of mine... Ron Rivera. He's young enough(48) to be a longterm solution for over a

decade, he's been a hot candidate for several years now and he's ready to be a head coach. He's also had alot of

success with the 3-4 in San Diego and he's a defensive mastermind. He KNOWS how to build top 10 defenses. Working

for SD he also knows how to scheme a defense with a pass happy offense. Rivera would be a GREAT match for Holmgren.

It gives Holmgren the opportunity to mentor a younger guy, dip his fingers into the offense and architect ANOTHER great

offense all while Rivera assembles and builds the kind of defense he is known for. He also has connections to Heckert via

Andy Reid. It's not as sexy as paying Gruden a fortune but it's a great match. He also brings alot of the same things

to the table as Mangini(and Ryan) thus further smoothing a transition: He coaches smart, tough, fundamentally sound

squads(Mangini) while also being a players coach(Ryan).

 

There's probably others who fit the bill, I haven't really dug that far into it. What i'm looking at is younger, first

time guys who can mesh what we have into a solid TEAM without blowing things up while being a guy Holmgren can mentor.

 

I'm also looking for guys who would put us in a position of building a dream team of sorts. One thing Holmgren said when

he came aboard that stood out to me, one of his biggest mistakes was not building up powerful defenses. With the right guy

who knows defenses he would be able to help facilitate both. In Riveras case you have a defensive genius teamed up with an offensive genius. With Harbaugh you have a guy that runs the same type of 3-4 as Pitt and Baltimore who can bring in a Mike Singletary or Mike Nolan to design a top 10 defense. In other words the potential is there for us to build a Bill Walsh

offense AND a Chuck Noll defense simultaneously.

 

Thoughts? Opinions? I'm just thinking outside the box here. I don't see the obvious options as realistic personally.

It's too obvious and too Cleveland Browns-ish for Holmgren to pull a Butch Davis and try to run the whole show and

the Gruden stuff is too much of a Dan Snyder move. Couple together Holmgrens own words and actions with the reality

of the situation tells me the Retards in the media are talking out of their asses like the other 99% of the times

they speak.

 

Yeah, I got a thought and an opinion being a football guy who has gotten it for years. Your rambling provides huge evidence you have no concept of anything about football. Our team is not built for a 3-4 we tried to change a 4-3 team into a 3-4 team without ever getting the right personnel. So rather than comment on your total babbling. Let's focus on what you can do! You can insult people because of their personal fandom well. Stick to that you know jack about football. Hows that thought Kiddo!

 

and when you get a brain think Gary Pattersn

[WRREBEL]

Gene Mingo. First black kicker in AFL history. Also played halfback and kick/punt returner.

 

 

 

Great call dude! The only one I could think of was Derek from the Waterboy!

[Nw220]

i really like john harabaugh from stanford and if Rob Ryan leaves for Carolina then they could send John Fox over here to coach the D i wouldnt mind that one bit, also i like leslie frazier but i see hes now staying in Minnesota...Gruden it may be but im not thrilled about that dono if i see if hes the right guy but as long as its not Eric Manvigina then i could really care less but he does maybe deserve one more year but after that outing agasnt Pitt hes a goner for sure

[TheClevelandSound]

I wonder how long its gonna take Mangini to fall asleep tonight.

[hoorta]

I wasn't going to even post tonight as this loss just sucks as a season ticket holder. I'm pretty sick of dragging my fat ass down to that sterile stadium to watch this bullshit. I don't know whether Mangini should stay or go, or Rob Ryan, Dabol, Holmgren or anyone else whose finger prints are all over this piece of shit franchise. I'm considering giving my tickets up to charity next year, retaining my PSL, and taking a year off. Attend a couple of games, but not all of them. This shit is just getting old. Between the meaningless preseason games to the meaningless last few games, having tickets to all the games is a negative. Going to a few nice weather games during the middle of the season before we are eliminated from contention is fun ... but this other shit sucks and is actually embarrassing to still hold tickets n 2010.

 

Hey, you only have to drive from Berea, how do you think guys like myself and 'Peen feel having to drive anywhere between 3-9 hours to watch the Browns embarrass themselves? But I hear you. Three years of no football and going on 20 year of unabated bad football is enough to make almost anyone give up hope that we could ever be good again.

 

McCoy hits a guy in the hands, gets intercepted, Big Poopisberger hits a TD on the next play, and the air goes out of the stadium. Turned it into a home game for the Steelers. If you're so POed at the Browns, for God's sake, burn the damn tickets, don't sell them to Steeler fans- I swear that elevated cameraman was a Steeler Fag. I just finished watching the replay and there's no way in hell the Terrible Toilet Rags should have been getting that much face time. I should have jumped into the Towel lovefest that was getting camera time a couple of rows in front of us and flashed a couple of birds just to get them the hell off of the air.

 

And Tomlin has no class- challenging a FIRST DOWN when you're up by 35? Bite me.

 

BTW, I've upped my odds on Mangini getting fired from 60% to a near certainty. Last game of the season, you're down 14 points in the first quarter, third and goal- so let's kick a field goal. Even if you don't make it, you force the Squealers to go the length of the field.

 

 

[mopaji]

Grossi just now:

 

Rebuilding totally might not be what Holmgren has in mind. At least one league source with knowledge of the situation believes the odds are strong that Holmgren will take over the coaching duties himself and install the West Coast offense that he learned under Bill Walsh and used to take Green Bay and Seattle to the Super Bowl.

 

The source also believes that Holmgren might ask Mangini coordinators Rob Ryan (defense) and Brad Seely (special teams) to stay.

It's possible that Holmgren will delay an announcement on Mangini's successor because he may have to conduct an interview first with a minority candidate to satisfy the NFL's Rooney Rule.

 

Greg Aiello, NFL spokesman, declined to say whether the rule might be averted in this unique circumstance. After all, the rule would put Holmgren in the position of interviewing a candidate for a job he intends to fill himself. "Let's wait and see what happens. We don't want to get into that type of discussion today," Aiello wrote in an email reply.

 

If Holmgren still views McCoy as the team's quarterback of the future, it stands to reason that his development will be a major factor in choosing the team's next coach.

 

 

I really don't think Holms wants to coach again. Why, at his age, would he want to give up 10 hour work days for 10 million a year? Why would he or his family want him to be in Berea 16 hours a day; 7 days a week? I say he keeps Mangini. I pray he keeps Mangini. To watch somebody else come in here and tear down to rebuild again would just make me sick. This was Mangini's first year, I don't count last year because he had to completely purge the orginization, it was damage control and little else. This year, he got the core of his roster in place and future stars in place (Ward, Haden, Hillis, McCoy). The guy deserves another year. And in my opinion, he is the best guy for the job. I hope Holmgren has the balls to stay the course and not hit the panic switch because of yesterday's game. If Mangini goes 2-4 next year, then you throw him out, let Ryan be the temp coach, and hire somebody the day after the season ends.

 

In Mangini I Trust

 

[miktoxic]

Hey, you only have to drive from Berea, how do you think guys like myself and 'Peen feel having to drive anywhere between 3-9 hours to watch the Browns embarrass themselves? But I hear you. Three years of no football and going on 20 year of unabated bad football is enough to make almost anyone give up hope that we could ever be good again.

 

McCoy hits a guy in the hands, gets intercepted, Big Poopisberger hits a TD on the next play, and the air goes out of the stadium. Turned it into a home game for the Steelers. If you're so POed at the Browns, for God's sake, burn the damn tickets, don't sell them to Steeler fans- I swear that elevated cameraman was a Steeler Fag. I just finished watching the replay and there's no way in hell the Terrible Toilet Rags should have been getting that much face time. I should have jumped into the Towel lovefest that was getting camera time a couple of rows in front of us and flashed a couple of birds just to get them the hell off of the air.

 

And Tomlin has no class- challenging a FIRST DOWN when you're up by 35? Bite me.

 

BTW, I've upped my odds on Mangini getting fired from 60% to a near certainty. Last game of the season, you're down 14 points in the first quarter, third and goal- so let's kick a field goal. Even if you don't make it, you force the Squealers to go the length of the field.

 

went to the dive bar where they don't have satellite so i get stuck watching the jets or giants with a bunch of bubbly over .500 fans. brought the laptop and streamed the game. the only series i really got to see was the long time consuming 80ish yard drive. mccoy threw accurate darts when he had to and in the most part our sub-par receivers made the catches. then WTF? we can't punch it in on second and third and goal? we have no running game. yeah i said it. hillis is good and all when he's not dropping the ball but god i hope hardesty gets healthy and stays that way cuz we are doomed and have been in that position for flippin years.

 

BUT KICK A FILED GOAL???? YOU'VE GOT NO SEASON LEFT AND YOU ARE DOWN BY 14.................FXXKIN DUMBASS PUSSY MOVE. GO F YOURSELF AND HAVE FUN PLAYIN GOLF NEXT YEAR. I'M FLIPPIN DONE WITH THIS SHIT.

[next2nothing]

we have no running game. yeah i said it. hillis is good and all when he's not dropping the ball but god i hope hardesty gets healthy and stays that way cuz we are doomed and have been in that position for flippin years.

I don't think we're doomed here. It was more that we had no other weapons but Hillis and the D could stack men in the box because they know our receivers aren't a threat.

 

I do agree with you on that 4th and goal FG though. I've backed Mangini this whole season but that was definitely a "I give up" play call.

 

I've seen the writing on the wall and I know that Mangini is 99.9% going to get fired, I leave that .1% in because that's about as much hope he has to keep his job, but I'm honestly wondering if Holmgren already told him he was getting axed. This team looked flat as hell yesterday and the decision making seemed like he just wanted to get the game over with.