Where does the progressive left stand on this issue?

[Mr. T]

Mandatory muslim studies in public schools.

 

 

 

Islam in Public Schools: Guess You Don't Know

Opinion by ajd

(1 Day Ago) in Politics

 

Some of you say that Christians would raise the roof if other religions were being taught in public schools. I guess you don't know that under the guise of "cultural studies" the Quran is being taught in some public schools, and that students are encouraged to fast during Ramadan, sit on prayer rugs, simulate prayers to Allah, and emulate other Islamic practices.

 

In some cases far eastern religious practices are encouraged so that students can learn to "relate" to those cultures.

Don't believe it?

 

Here are some of the curricula on Islam: "Islam 610-1100"; "Across the Centuries";

Some on eastern religions from Washington State Superintedent of Public Instruction: "China"; "Modern Japan: An Idea Book for K-12 Teachers"; "Letters from Chengdu".

 

These have been in use since the 1980s, and are merely a sampling. Some may no longer be used or have been supplemented by later works. There are others from various states' departments of education. These do not merely focus on culture, but engage the students in religious practices.

 

I agree that it is not the place of the public school system to teach the Bible, particularly since most teachers don't really know the Bible and are spiritually unqualified to teach it. But those who abhor the idea of the Bible being used as a historical and/or educational book are either ignorant of the other religions being taught and practiced in the public schools, or they're just blowing smoke.

 

You can get documented proof from Media Spotlight, PO Box 290, Redmond, WA 98073-0290.

They don't charge for their publications.

 

Source Here.

[calfoxwc]

It's all about turning our American society upside down and inside out, the ultimate leftist's goal of

 

achieving some kind of utopia.

 

And they will raise hell to get there.

 

Weird how liberals tend to despise Christians and the Bible,

 

but they support Muslims.

 

Everything is opposite in liberal land.

[BrownIndian]

people better separate religion from state esp a religion like Islam ... else things can get very screwed up.

[orangebrown10]

My guess is that these classes are religion electives. For instance, a high school could have an elective class about all major religions. Obviously a class like this would encourage student to think "outside the box" from what they are generally accustomed to. Normally, I believe that religion should be completely separate from state. However, I think it's also very beneficial for people to be able to understand other world religions in a social/historical way. As far as mimicking worship, I'd say that's either an exaggeration, or the school board needs to step in asap. I'm sure quite a few Jewish/Muslim/Christian/etc American parents would be upset if their child's assignment was to pray to another deity.

 

And don't you think that in the world we live in today, that it would be beneficial to learn about other American's belief systems?

[heckofajobbrownie]

My wife teaches Islam as part of her Humanties class. Just like they teach historical Christianity and Hinduism and all the rest. I think you can relax. This isn't about pushing the religion of Islam. It's about knowing about one of the world's major religions and cultures.

 

Terrifying, I know.

[calfoxwc]

Are we talking 12th and lower ?

 

I don't see any kind of problem teaching religonS.

 

If it were ONLY ISLAM, which I doubt, most of us

 

would have a huge problem with that.

 

A class in Hindu, Jewish, Chritian, Islamic, Buddhism... etc etc...

 

would be pretty cool.

 

The special treatment of Islam teachings by itself, out of fear, or political expediency,

 

is what we have to be avoiding at all costs, no matter what this "president" says... @@

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's part of the California curriculum for 7th graders. They do a block on Islam, the Crusades, etc.

 

She hasn't gotten any converts yet, but she's working on it hard. I'll let you know.

[calfoxwc]

Islam...

 

and the Crusades? ....

 

The "Christian" Crusades?

 

That doesn't sound very unbiased offhand,

 

I'm sure that isn't what you meant...

[heckofajobbrownie]

You can freak out about liberal bias if you want to, Cal. It's your job. But kids learn about history in humanties class, including things like the rise of Islam and Islamic culture in the Middle East, and the Crusades that followed. Because those were sort of a big deal historically.

 

You can imagine her rolling out the prayer mats and forcing the Christians to face Mecca if you wish.

 

[calfoxwc]

I said nothing of the sort, Heck.

 

I simply explained that Islam, per se, has no negative connotation to me,

 

and Christianity, per se, doesn't either.

 

But the Crusades do, and so do the slaughter of Jewish settlements by Mohammed and his Muslim extremist followers.

 

So, to say "Islam" and the Crusades,

 

sounds kinda fishy to me.

 

IF it is teaching the good about Islam, and the bad about Christianity, then I would have a big problem with that.

 

You are supposed to be so intelligent, Heck, you should get it now.

 

So, I am not saying anything about bias in your wife's teaching, I simply was wondering if/how you misspoke

 

about the actual subject(s) she teaches.

 

That's all. No stupid smart ass self-serving assumptions necessary.

[heckofajobbrownie]

She teaches history, Cal. History.

 

You've really got to get a life. I look at the weeks of posts in here, sometimes daily, of you on about some nonsense, some perceived slight to your way of life, some threat that we all supposedly face from Obama and his minions, just like this nonsensical thread that T started. You're more lost and obsessed than any Bush-obsessed liberal I ever knew, and by a long shot. And I knew a lot of them.

 

Really, go outside. The sun will come up tomorrow.

[calfoxwc]

Ah, the constant hateful putdowns and personal attacks.....

 

and all the other points that aren't sillY?

 

You don't have the balls to admit Obamao is totally botching up his chance of a lifetime.

 

go ahead, brag about Obamao's job stimulus working.

 

Then run and hide again when we point out how it went UP and it's now 9.6 percent,

 

which is way, way lower than reality, because folks like me, self employed unemployed...

 

aren't working and not counted.

 

And that's a LOT of Americans.

 

So, you can grow up, or you can continue childishly putting anyone down every time

 

you can, and hiding every time we are right about your disastrous choice for pres.

 

And, I do have a life, and I can type very, very, very quickly, now that I am out of my sling.

 

Did I mention that you lick Obamao's toes? Just wonderin...

[heckofajobbrownie]

Cal, go outside. Take a deep breath. Find a hobby.

[calfoxwc]

You finally gave up on defending Obamao and his asinine unAmerican policies.

 

Good, and you aren't the only progressive college fool to wise up...

 

even though you are too fragile an ego to give up your personal inuslts, and

 

start initiating some intelligent discussion for a change ...

**********************

Fewer Young People See Themselves as Democrats

• Posted on September 3, 2010 at 4:31pm by Meredith Jessup
• Print »
• Email »

A full six months after Pew Research reported that the Democratic Party was losing support among some of its biggest backers in 2008, the New York Times reports that this year’s college vote is “up for grabs.”

 

How and whether millions of college students vote will help determine if Republicans win enough seats to retake the House or Senate, overturning the balance of power on Capitol Hill, and with it, Mr. Obama’s agenda. If students tune out and stay home it will also carry a profound message for American society about a generation that seemed so ready, so recently, to grab national politics by the lapels and shake.

 

To take the temperature of America’s young voters, the Times traveled to Colorado State University in Larimer County, Colorado:

 

 

 

A spokeswoman for the university’s chapter of College Democrats, Mandi Asay, 22, said her group battled apathy on one hand and anger on the other.

 

“People are angry — about the budget deficit, health care plan, angry about this and that,” she said. “I feel like Republicans definitely, definitely have a chance of getting back on their feet.”

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Cal, you really should know that I spend most of my days talking about this stuff. It's my job. The fact that I don't talk about it with you, or T, or Steve, really has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that there's nothing to learn from it anymore.

 

I already know what you're going to say because you can say two or three things. And none of them are interesting, or the least bit insightful, because you don't know anything. You just post an article, almost always entirely flawed, from a right-wing website or news source, and then you say that we're in big trouble.

 

I get it. Now go outside and enjoy your Labor Day weekend.

[calfoxwc]

Well, I'm glad you have a job you enjoy, but why is it

 

that you are so wrong about so many things, and so sold out

 

to the left on every single issue?

 

All "talkie-talkie" and no "learnie-learnie" ???

 

Sounds like a bunch of weathermen from the sixties who get paid

 

to talk their screwball talk.

 

Uplifting for you, perhaps.

 

I'd rather keep my honor and integrity on what I believe,

 

but whatever floats your boat, as they say, yah?

[calfoxwc]

IOW's,

 

You talk about this stuff all the time, yet you can't logically defend

 

what you believe and why you believe it?

 

Really. WHO should go and enjoy their labor day weekend?

 

And, tell me if you hate my post about the video of our WWII soldiers.

 

That is it is entirely flawed.

[Mr. T]

Cal, you really should know that I spend most of my days talking about this stuff. It's my job.

 

 

Enough was said in the first sentence.

 

 

"Its my job".

[calfoxwc]

I guess every time Heck says something liberal, he gets a quarter and a cookie. nice.

 

But most of us see and live in the real world.

 

Heck's JOB is to never criticize liberal stuff, never criticize Obamao?

 

Hmm. I wouldn't have that job. Farming is SO much an HONEST living...

 

Heck has rarely, if ever, intelligently defended any of his stances, he just

 

attacks others' stances.

 

I hope Heck stops back by after Nov.... @@

[VaporTrail]

I like how you guys immediately blame the "progressive left" for crap like this. I consider myself from that part of the political spectrum, and I absolutely hate it when you equate anything you hate as being a result of people from this group.

 

Anyways, here's how I see it.

 

Do I like that the teachings of Islam are being taught in public schools? There's no easy answer as it's dependent on a huge array of factors. If it's in a history class or a study about world cultures, then yes, I think it's great to let people know how people practice respective religions around the world. To suggest that they SHOULD do something outside of class to be more like a certain culture, xxxx that.

 

I don't dislike Islam any less than I dislike Christianity. They're all the same poison, just different brands. If a teacher wants to teach about Islam in a world culture course, that's fine. If they want to tell you how to pray or advocate ANY kind of religious moral sets, then it had better NOT be in a public school. Kids need to be educated as objectively as possible. The "progressive left" is on the same page as you on the beliefs that Islamic moral principles should not be advocated in class.

 

Weird how liberals tend to despise Christians and the Bible,

 

but they support Muslims.

 

Everything is opposite in liberal land.

 

No. I'll be getting off topic a bit, but I want to address this. I don't support Muslims to spite Christians. I despise their poison just the same. I hate their wacky, ass-backwards, stone-age, misogynistic, homophobic beliefs. I would argue that most people that consider themselves to be "progressive liberals" would agree with me. Because this is America, however, and we live under the Constitution. I'll defend their right to exist, preach, build mosques, etc. even if I HATE what they stand for, and I HATE the current state of Islam far more than I hate the current state of Christianity, it's far more barbaric.

 

Christians have been preaching their bullshit in America pretty much without any competition for hundreds of years. Now, I feel that the Christians that are getting offended by things Muslims are doing are just getting a taste of their own medicine. Everyone's had to deal with Christian bullshit, it's about time they had to deal with someone else's. If you are allowed to build churches on your property, they can build mosques on theirs. The First Amendment doesn't cover your right to not be offended. The only times I have defended Islam is when people try to deprive Muslims Americans of rights afforded to Christians Americans. (see my thoughts on the mosque in NYC)

[calfoxwc]

Good post, Vapor,,,

 

but if a hospital that performed abortions was destroyed by some terrorists who were Bible thumping maniacs...

 

would you think that putting up a monument to their Bible thumping maniacal crimes was hate speech?

 

Or exercize in freedom?

 

It goes back to freedom requires responsibility. The point is, it is irresponsible to yell "fire" in a crowding theater,

 

in building a tribute to the religion that was abused and espoused by the terrorists who destroyed the Twin Towers.

 

Cordoba ... that naming of the mosque is yelling "fire" in a crowded theater just to see the panic and the anger,

 

and to have some weird power over a group of people.

 

It's the location, not the building.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Your analogy is the perfect example of where you're wrong on this, Cal. You're equating the Muslim religion with fundamentalist Islam. You're saying if Christian fundamentalists blew up a hospital, would you oppose a Christian fundamentalist monument two blocks as hate speech. This analogy obviously doesn't work.

 

The analogy would be if Christian fundamentalists bombed an abortion clinic, and then two blocks away a Christian church with no ties or relation to the fundamentalist movement wanted to build a monument on land that it owned. In which case I'd say, absolutely, that's their right.

 

Funny how so many people who have been wailing about "The Constitution! The Constitution!" over these summer months don't seem to believe in what it says. They now want to repeal the 14th amendment (because of "anchor babies") and are protesting the right of free religious expression guaranteed in the 1st Amendment.

 

So Muslims have the same right to build a place of worship on their land as anyone else does, at least in this country. This group has nothing to do with, nor do they agree with, the fundamentalists who attacked us on 9/11, and shouldn't be tarred as such. It's the worst sort of guilt by association. You shouldn't do it, but in your analogy you are.

[calfoxwc]

Only because the person who wants to BUILD THAT mosque RIGHT THERE...

 

is a freakin terrorist supporting radical nutcase. He supports Hamas, and

 

go look up the meaning behind CORDOBA.

 

Are you saying that this mosque has nothing to do with

 

the meaning behind CORDOBA ?

 

The analogy is tough, because there is NOT any kind of world wide terrorist movements

 

associated with Christian churches.

 

But there are with mosques and Islam, for those who support terrorism hijacking the religion.

 

The IMAM is a radical. CORDOBA - oh, go READ for a change. Put it all together Heck.

 

It's hate speech, it's meant to intimidate and recruit. Read up on Sharia law, and what about 3 floors or more, were

going to be dedicated to.

 

Sharia law initiative, I forget the actual name. We've already discussed this on this forum though.

 

You didn't read it. You are wrong about this issue.

[VaporTrail]

The imam really isn't that radical. Glenn Beck pretty much said the same exact thing that the imam did after the US got attacked. (This was after he derided the imam about being a terrorist sympathizer... hypocrite.)

 

Anyways, this won't qualify for hate speech in any US court. You can claim it is, but it's really a reach, and they can just as easily claim that it isn't. For something to qualify as hate speech it has to clearly state a hatred for another race/religion/gender/etc. And even so, hate speech is protected. The KKK is allowed to gather and have rallies. Even if this is what you claim it to be; a center to gather people to hate all that isn't Islam, the Constitution would still allow it. You're allowed to hate whomever you want to. You're allowed to tell people to hate whomever you want to. Nothing about this mosque being built is against the law.

 

Once you start conspiring to kill the people you hate, then it's against the law. If you are planning to kill a large number of those people, you will attract attention. Even if, in fact, this is a terrorist training ground, as you claim it to be, then there will be nothing anyone can do to stop it until concrete evidence arises that these people are plotting to kill Americans. In America, you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. This includes suspected terrorists. Saying you support Hamas' actions does not mean you are plotting to kill Americans. It makes you a "terrorist sympathizer" but not a "terrorist."

 

If I am outspoken against US support of Israel, does that make me a terrorist because the other side is using suicide tactics and has links to Hamas? No. But it sure as hell might get me thrown onto a government watch-list. You can't undercut the Constitution just because you're scared of a certain group of people. The watch-list is the best this country can do. Because of the law of the land, all of our law enforcement should be, and in most cases is reactionary, not preventative. If you want pre-emptive, preventative protection from groups of people you fear, perhaps China, North Korea, or Iran would be a place you'd enjoy living in.

 

I will argue that once we become a preventative force, we become no better than Nazi Germany, the USSR, Red China, PRK, or Iran. The times that we have acted as a preventative force have all led to pure shit and a wake of bullshit. See Iraq pt. 2, the Indo-China Conflict, domino theory, and the spheres of influence of the superpowers during the Cold War. Look at all the nations that used to be part of the USSR. Georgia, Afghanistan, Chechnya. One of these is our problem, now. Look at the Tibet vs. China. Look at the state of Central and South America after we militarized them during the Cold War. Now we have a drug trade that our citizens down by the border don't like, but our government can do nothing to stop.

 

Granted, these are on a much larger scale than the mosque, but it is the same principle. All of these examples have resulted in public outcry and a huge loss of support for the aggressors. If we deny Muslims a right to build a mosque on property that they own, most Muslims that don't yet hate America certainly will. How could that possibly be good for us?

[Mr. T]

So are we to stand by while muslims block streets and stop folks from entering while they take to the streets for their prayer time, as they do in France?

 

It is nothing more than intimidation.

 

 

Muslims hire guards to stop people from entering their homes while the muslims take to the streets in France to pray.

Also check this crap out! HERE

[orangebrown10]

I like how you guys immediately blame the "progressive left" for crap like this. I consider myself from that part of the political spectrum, and I absolutely hate it when you equate anything you hate as being a result of people from this group.

 

Anyways, here's how I see it.

 

Do I like that the teachings of Islam are being taught in public schools? There's no easy answer as it's dependent on a huge array of factors. If it's in a history class or a study about world cultures, then yes, I think it's great to let people know how people practice respective religions around the world. To suggest that they SHOULD do something outside of class to be more like a certain culture, xxxx that.

 

I don't dislike Islam any less than I dislike Christianity. They're all the same poison, just different brands. If a teacher wants to teach about Islam in a world culture course, that's fine. If they want to tell you how to pray or advocate ANY kind of religious moral sets, then it had better NOT be in a public school. Kids need to be educated as objectively as possible. The "progressive left" is on the same page as you on the beliefs that Islamic moral principles should not be advocated in class.

 

 

 

No. I'll be getting off topic a bit, but I want to address this. I don't support Muslims to spite Christians. I despise their poison just the same. I hate their wacky, ass-backwards, stone-age, misogynistic, homophobic beliefs. I would argue that most people that consider themselves to be "progressive liberals" would agree with me. Because this is America, however, and we live under the Constitution. I'll defend their right to exist, preach, build mosques, etc. even if I HATE what they stand for, and I HATE the current state of Islam far more than I hate the current state of Christianity, it's far more barbaric.

 

Christians have been preaching their bullshit in America pretty much without any competition for hundreds of years. Now, I feel that the Christians that are getting offended by things Muslims are doing are just getting a taste of their own medicine. Everyone's had to deal with Christian bullshit, it's about time they had to deal with someone else's. If you are allowed to build churches on your property, they can build mosques on theirs. The First Amendment doesn't cover your right to not be offended. The only times I have defended Islam is when people try to deprive Muslims Americans of rights afforded to Christians Americans. (see my thoughts on the mosque in NYC)

 

YES! Thank you so much for posting this. I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Mr. T]

Christians that are getting offended by things Muslims are doing are just getting a taste of their own medicine. Everyone's had to deal with Christian bullshit,

 

You need to a little more research and study in religion. And ask why muslims do what they do. And everything being said right now is bull shit.

[heckofajobbrownie]

He's not a radical. You have to use the most ridiculously strained tricks to tie him to fundamentalism. People have tried really hard, and it's pretty sad.

 

He's not a radical. In fact, he's who the Bush administration put out front as the type of moderate, Americanized Muslim voice we need.

 

And if you accept that, then your argument falls apart. As it should.

 

Religious liberty, Cal. The First Amendment. Either you believe in it, or you don't. We don't grant wavers because you don't like a certain group of people.

 

You're always on about your principles. Seems you've sacrificed them here for something else. You always talk about unamerican activities. Who is being unamerican here?

[calfoxwc]

You are being corrupt in the conversation again.

 

it's the location, AND the name of the place "CORDOBA".

 

Grow up Heck, and read. Either read what we've already been posting,

 

or just go ahead and make a fool of yourself.

 

CORDOBA. CORDOBA. Learn the history. The principle is, the imam won't

 

repudiate the violence to Jews by Hamas. The principle is, the imam will

 

accept funding from terrorist sponsoring nations.

 

CORDOBA. CORDOBA. CORDOBA.

 

Go read up on "Trojan Horse"... read up on what several of those sharia law floors were

going to be dedicated to.

 

Look at the history.

 

CORDOBA.

 

Either admit it, or ignore. But you are making a huge fool of yourself if you do the latter.

 

Wait, you already have been. Too late for you, then.

[calfoxwc]

Let me tell you, Heck,.... even if you are too cowardly to go look up the history of "CORDOBA"...

 

even if you think it's a "coincidence" that he used that name....

 

"In a New York Times poll released this week, two-thirds of New Yorkers say the planned Islamic center should be relocated to a site farther away from ground zero."

You think all New Yorkers are right wingers?

 

It's trojan horse. Deceit. Incrementally establishing extremism while maintaining denial by talking nice.

 

"As the man promoting the plans, Rauf is at the center of the controversy. Rabbi Arthur Waskow, founder of the Shalom Center in Philadelphia, has known the imam for six years. Rauf, he says, has "condemned terrorism over and over again."

Although he has not asked Rauf about Hamas, Mr. Waskow says the imam has condemned organizations when they are doing bad things. And, he says, Rauf has affirmed the existence of the state of Israel. "He may not agree with all of Israel's actions, but he does not condemn the state," says Waskow.

 

However, Ros-Lehtinen says in her statement, "while Abdul Rauf has claimed that he supports the State of Israel, in a 2005 speech, he supported a 'one-state solution' in which Israel would cease to be a Jewish state. These are not the words and actions of a moderate."

 

And that, Heck, is a freakin radical. Won't criticize Hamas, and supports the wiping out of Israel as a Jewish state.

Have you looked up "Cordoba" yet? Or you'll just run and hide once again?