Sony Reed Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 For all the supposed talent I keep hearing everyone talking about that we have, can someone tell me how many playmakers we have on offense and defense, I'm talking about guys who can change the outcome of a game or make a big play at crunch time. I see only 2 guys on the Browns: Josh Cribbs and Shaun Rogers Where is Braylon and Winslow at crunch time? Who on the defense steps up and makes a key stop or interception or causes a fumble when we need it? All I heard was people talking about Sean Jones being a Pro Bowl safety that guy can't cover anyone. Steelers: Roethlisberger, Polamalu, Harrison, Ward, Parker, Woodley, Timmons, Farrior Ravens: Ed Reed, Suggs, Ray Lewis, Bart Scott, Derek Mason Look at the Titans they have guys like Finnagan a 7th round choice who constantly makes big plays, Chris Hope, The pass rushing defensive end , Haynsworth, Chris Johnson Why have the Browns lost to the Steelers, Colts Ravens and Broncos because at crunch time what playmaker did we have that stepped up. People want to defend Savage for his draft picks and Free agent picks but other than Shaun Rogers name a drafted player or free agent made plays when we need them or changes the outcome of a game? Savage has drafted alot of guys that are NFL players but I don't see any stars in the players he has drafted How many of you would have liked to see us with Justin Tuck, Brandon Jacobs or a Greg jennings just a few guys Savaged past up in the 3rd and 4th round Who is that hidden talent Savage has drafted he was supposed to be so good at finding, I see a bunch of wasted picks like David McMillen, Nick Speegle, Antione Perkins, Travis Wilson, Charlie Frye, Issac Sowells, Andrew Hoffman, Jon Dunn. People want to talk about 6 Pro Bowl players last season as the talent on this team, but what have those guys done this year when they played against some good teams and not the bums we beat on last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnsons Hardware Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Phil Dawson.. even though he missed one in the last two games. he was the only one to put up points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d531 Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Wright, Harrison, McDonald coming along, Thomas, Zastudil, Jurevicius, Quinn....Should I keep going? Maybe not so much this year: but what about Jamal Lewis and DA last year? You know the season that got evereyone pumped for this year? Braylon sucks and Winslow has one problem after another, but he still has talent....I'd take the word of experts and analysts ranking the browns high for aquiring talent over your rant any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I don't like the idea of ripping the entire team to shreds, saying there is no talent here, etc., while the biggest reason for underperformance has been the coaching staff. It's far too early to decide on the 2008 draft, so I'm not even going to get into that. Jones is a very good safety. 2006 and 2007 were probowl level seasons. Given that he blew out his knee his rookie year, 2004, I'd say that was a pretty big jump from role-player to top 10 at his position. Pool has been pretty good. Showing improvement each year. And has made big plays late in games a number of times. Lays out big hits as well. DQ is a good LB. Going into depth about our LBs is pointless. I think the schemes are too vanilla to get anything more out of them. Wright & McDonald...Wright has shown to be a starting CB in this league already. And McDonald, everytime I watch the guy, you can see his raw ability. He has good ball skills and is very athletic. Coverage is all about technique, which is coached. Kid came out of Memphis, in what, the 5th round? Don't know what more you can ask. That 2007 draft class was pretty sick. Even with the huge hole between picks. on Offense... you can hate DA all you want. He bailed us out last season, and out of nowhere. Quinn, Thomas, Steinbach, Vickers or Ali, Harrison... Edwards. Kid has loads of talent. Think he lost focus this offseason, thinking that he had "arrived" and didn't have that hunger to work and focus coming into the season. I expect him to be back to form next season after the reality check he received this year. Winslow. I'll argue with anyone that he's the most talented, and most feared TE in the entire league. Honestly, free agents Phil has signed...Joe, Steinbach, Rogers, Lewis, Fraley, Hadnot... I have to end this post. It annoys me too much to go through the skilled players on this team, and try to explain why they're good. You can see the raw talent in a lot of guys. and have to recognize that the lack of production has to do with lack of aggression on defense from a playcall standpoint, and offensively just a season long trainwreck from DA's inconsistency, injuries to the right side of the OL, Lewis' getting bit by the Shaun Alexander bug, Joe's knee, Staph, Stallworth being who he is (which I'll put 100% on Phil)... I'm done. Long post. Frustrated. How about we get a coaching staff in here who gets on guys to perform, and see what we get out of alot of these guys, before we blow the whole thing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 How many of those players for Pitt and Balt were drafted or signed after Phil came to Cleveland? Timmons and Woodley. That's it. Between two teams you named 11 guys that have been there for 4 seasons or more, and only two recent acquisitions. Even according to you, Phil has found 2 players of that caliber just since '05. And it should also be noted that Phil gets alot of credit for the draft selections of Suggs, Lewis, and Reed, not to mention Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, and Boulware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 BMac had a hell of a game on Sunday. He got his name on the PA a couple of times and deservedly so. Oh yeah, and he was covering Reggie effing Wayne. (Who Manning went to frequently because that other Schlub receiver Indy has wasn't getting open either. What's his name, Marvin Harrison? Scrub. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted December 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Wright, Harrison, McDonald coming along, Thomas, Zastudil, Jurevicius, Quinn....Should I keep going? Maybe not so much this year: but what about Jamal Lewis and DA last year? You know the season that got evereyone pumped for this year? Braylon sucks and Winslow has one problem after another, but he still has talent....I'd take the word of experts and analysts ranking the browns high for aquiring talent over your rant any day. And we have so many playmakers which is why we are 4-8.......RIGHT.....What plays have all these guys you mentioned made this year Where were all these guys you mentioned most of the season, yea they looked good last year playing a bunch of terrible teams As Bill Parcells says you are what you are and we are 4-8 for a reason How many teams have we beat this season Bengals- terrible team, Buffalo because they missed a FG, A bad Jacksonville team and the Giants the only good team we have beat Tell me how many games this season we scored ZERO touchdowns or how about how potent this offense has been How many people here had this as the Browns season, or the Browns would win the AFC or we would have all these Pro Bowl players or our offensive line was top 5 in the league or we would have a great offense. Time to admit we were all fooled by last year 10 wins against some of the worst teams in the league But keep convincing yourself that we are so talented, talented teams don't go 4-8 after 12 games and be looking at a top 10 pick in the draft and btw I don't want to hear injuries as a excuse, problems too many of these guys read there press clippings on how great they were after they beat ONE TEAM all of last season with a winning record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted December 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 I don't like the idea of ripping the entire team to shreds, saying there is no talent here, etc., while the biggest reason for underperformance has been the coaching staff. It's far too early to decide on the 2008 draft, so I'm not even going to get into that. Jones is a very good safety. 2006 and 2007 were probowl level seasons. Given that he blew out his knee his rookie year, 2004, I'd say that was a pretty big jump from role-player to top 10 at his position. Pool has been pretty good. Showing improvement each year. And has made big plays late in games a number of times. Lays out big hits as well. DQ is a good LB. Going into depth about our LBs is pointless. I think the schemes are too vanilla to get anything more out of them. Wright & McDonald...Wright has shown to be a starting CB in this league already. And McDonald, everytime I watch the guy, you can see his raw ability. He has good ball skills and is very athletic. Coverage is all about technique, which is coached. Kid came out of Memphis, in what, the 5th round? Don't know what more you can ask. That 2007 draft class was pretty sick. Even with the huge hole between picks. on Offense... you can hate DA all you want. He bailed us out last season, and out of nowhere. Quinn, Thomas, Steinbach, Vickers or Ali, Harrison... Edwards. Kid has loads of talent. Think he lost focus this offseason, thinking that he had "arrived" and didn't have that hunger to work and focus coming into the season. I expect him to be back to form next season after the reality check he received this year. Winslow. I'll argue with anyone that he's the most talented, and most feared TE in the entire league. Honestly, free agents Phil has signed...Joe, Steinbach, Rogers, Lewis, Fraley, Hadnot... I have to end this post. It annoys me too much to go through the skilled players on this team, and try to explain why they're good. You can see the raw talent in a lot of guys. and have to recognize that the lack of production has to do with lack of aggression on defense from a playcall standpoint, and offensively just a season long trainwreck from DA's inconsistency, injuries to the right side of the OL, Lewis' getting bit by the Shaun Alexander bug, Joe's knee, Staph, Stallworth being who he is (which I'll put 100% on Phil)... I'm done. Long post. Frustrated. How about we get a coaching staff in here who gets on guys to perform, and see what we get out of alot of these guys, before we blow the whole thing up? Well from reading your post sure sounds like this should be a team leading the AFC North or contending for a playoff spot not a 4-8 team Tell me other than the Giants what good team have we defeated the past 2 years But its so much easier to blame the coaches because these players have so much talent, the record must be 8-4 and not 4-8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sony Reed Posted December 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 How many of those players for Pitt and Balt were drafted or signed after Phil came to Cleveland? Timmons and Woodley. That's it. Between two teams you named 11 guys that have been there for 4 seasons or more, and only two recent acquisitions. Even according to you, Phil has found 2 players of that caliber just since '05. And it should also be noted that Phil gets alot of credit for the draft selections of Suggs, Lewis, and Reed, not to mention Adalius Thomas, Chris McAlister, and Boulware. Phil has drafted 2 guys as the 3rd pick in the draft in 2 of his 4 drafts and I believe you and I could pick #3 and draft a good pick so thats not saying much and Edwards has not performed only 1 season like a #3 pick and Wimbley where he was taken has to be looked at as a bust, yet the Steelers took Woodley in the 2nd round and Timmons in the late 1st and they both are better than any linebacker on this team. Are you going to tell me you would rather have Wimbley today over Ngata? or any guy drafted in the 3rd round over Travis Wilson Want to talk about how great a pick Pool as turned out as a pick at the top of the 2nd round, he is average at best I would rather discuss how we passed on Justin Tuck 4th round and Brandon Jacobs 4th round when we selected the great Antoine Perkins ahead of both those guys and Charlie Frye or how about how Phil passed on Greg Jennings which forced us to spend millions of dollars on Stallworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectrum Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 you can go look at pick by pick draft results dating back to 1999 and compare all of the people we could have picked, knowing what we know now, and how great that team would be. Or you can realize that for various reasons, the NFL Draft is not an exact science. Whether it be drafting for needs, drafting for depth, drafting as a rebuilding franchise...Change in coaching, philosophies, management, etc. Teams hit and miss on picks all the time. Huge waste of time to look at what you could have had. But if you're into wasting that much time, why don't you go check and see who the Ravens and Steelers drafted with every pick, and compare them to every player drafted in every round, every year, after. And I'm not saying we should be 8-4. But a team has to learn how to NOT LOSE games, to be decent. And we've done alot of giving games away. By no means are we "there" yet, but we're certainly a lot closer than we were when Davis and pals left this trash heap. The great thing about the NFL is that a team can go from the basement to the playoffs in one offseason. You see a couple of them every season. and the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We need Tom Tupa Posted December 2, 2008 Report Share Posted December 2, 2008 Phil has drafted 2 guys as the 3rd pick in the draft in 2 of his 4 drafts and I believe you and I could pick #3 and draft a good pick How many times are we going to rehash this? Picking high is not a guarantee of getting a good player. Tenn picked Young, SF picked Smith, the Browns took Tim F-ing Couch, etc. Phil took 2 long-term starters. nd we have so many playmakers which is why we are 4-8.......RIGHT.....What plays have all these guys you mentioned made this year Werent the Ravens 5-11 just a year ago with all of the players you named in your original post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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