Soccer Thread

[ClevelandFanForLife]

You probably just suck at it. I play rugby too, but I still love soccer, and a bunch of people on my team also love soccer. Diving is a part of the game, and sometimes it works, if not, then you look like a fool. But if you go holding your ankle and pouring water on your shin after a call isn't made, I have no sympathy for you because you are a pussy. I was playing an intramural game one time, as keeper, and we played this team of Africans that took the game way too seriously. Anywho, he had a breakaway, but dribbled ahead of himself, so I rushed the ball, and clearly got to it first. The asshole slid cleats up into the side of my leg, and then rolled around and pretended he was hurt, while I got up and limped through the rest of the game. People like that ruin soccer. I don't care if you're going to flop, it happens, and it's a part of the game's strategy, but the theatrics need to fking go.

i'm not saying that there isn't a level of toughness to it, but when coaches tell their players to flop, it loses all credibility. you even admitted it is part of the game. how can anyone explain this? when a pitch comes inside in baseball, do people hit the ground like they just got hit? no, because they know it didn't hit them. soccer is ridiculous and anyone who takes a dive is a pussy. i'm not saying that all soccer playing are girls, but the ones who fall down are. and yes, i suck at soccer. however, it is only because i never played and only tried because i was forced to in gym during middle school. it sucks.

[VaporTrail]

I mean, yeah, it's the easy way out. The times I flopped were the times I'd get beat, but the ref didn't have a good view of me. It results in our team having possession or a free kick to have a set play from. It's up to the officials to get it right. If you do it right, then it could save your team, if you do it wrong, and the ref sees you, you get carded. It's an easy way out, and really there is not much respect to be had to those that do it, but the game just facilitates it. What are your thoughts on basketball and people like Varejao.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

I mean, yeah, it's the easy way out. The times I flopped were the times I'd get beat, but the ref didn't have a good view of me. It results in our team having possession or a free kick to have a set play from. It's up to the officials to get it right. If you do it right, then it could save your team, if you do it wrong, and the ref sees you, you get carded. It's an easy way out, and really there is not much respect to be had to those that do it, but the game just facilitates it. What are your thoughts on basketball and people like Varejao.

it's bogus and it pisses me off when they do it too. i just hate fakers and people who have to cheat to win. if you get beat, you don't flop. you learn from it and get better so that it doesn't happen again.

[The Gipper]

I couldn't disagree with The Gipper more. If you do away with offsides in Soccer, it literally would ruin the game.

 

The lower the level the game, the more offsides tends to slow it down or ruin good scoring chances.

 

Americans also have the attitude of quick gratification, and you see this in MLS play to some extent. The national team is finally starting to realize how Soccer is played. The biggest thing a team can have in Soccer is anticipatory patience. You gotta be ready to take advantage whenever the time comes, but meanwhile, you bide your time. It doesn't mean you don't try to manufacture those opportunities, but the majority of the World Cup championship teams, are the patient teams, not the flashy ones.

 

The lower levels of the game, especially in America, tend to long serves or through passes. The easiest way to defeat an overly aggressive team with lots of speed, is to do the offsides trap. Hell, when I played when younger, half the defenders didn't know how to pull a trap, but the offensive players were so aggressive they ended up offsides anyways.

 

As you gain in experience and raise your level of play, you realize that patience is the biggest virtue. You play the game, you pass the ball, you create your opportunities through patience, perseverance, and sound team technique or tactics. Fundamentals.

 

A good soccer game can end 0-0 and go to a shoot-out, and still be extremely exciting as you watch the on-field chess match. Rarely do offsides cause game slow down or cause major shifts in momentum at the elite levels, because the players understand how to use/can be used against them.

 

 

Oh, I am sure that there are nuances to the way the game is played now. And you have made the right analogy, soccer is basically a field chess match.

But, as far as I am concerned, it is stagnant. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey....and probably a lot more sports have made adjustments to the game to make them more entertaining. I suggested one change to soccer to make it more entertaining. I think I am right. You don't. As far as we are concerned, yea, its a gay sport.

(And by the way, that isn't just an "American" view. I have numerous English cousins. They think that soccer players are a bunch of preening pansies, though I don't know if they have any views on the offsides rule...other than to say "well, those are just the rules". Well, when I grew up, there was no three point shot in basketball. The NBA didn't adopt it until 1980, and the NCAA didn't have it until 1986. Also, there was no shot clock in college basketball until 1985. So, I spent the first 30+ years of my life watching that sport without those rules (though the NBA did have the shot clock since the mid-50s)

[BrownIndian]

what i know about soccer is what i see with my own eyes; people taking dives. my best friend played soccer all through high school and he said that his early coaches told him to take dives if their team was down. i don't quite think you understand what i was saying. i simply meant that we spent a lot of time making fun of the soccer players who practiced before us. their parties sucked too. rugby parties are way better. if you've never been to one, you're missing out.

 

 

Im sorry. I did misunderstand you.

 

 

Diving is a part of soccer. And the reason why it exists is cos there is no video technology in Soccer to examine the dives. So the ref is pressurized into making decisions that can be wrong frequently. it is something that the ruling body should work at eliminating.

[Mr. T]

Oh, I am sure that there are nuances to the way the game is played now. And you have made the right analogy, soccer is basically a field chess match.

But, as far as I am concerned, it is stagnant. Football, baseball, basketball, hockey....and probably a lot more sports have made adjustments to the game to make them more entertaining. I suggested one change to soccer to make it more entertaining. I think I am right. You don't. As far as we are concerned, yea, its a gay sport.

(And by the way, that isn't just an "American" view. I have numerous English cousins. They think that soccer players are a bunch of preening pansies, though I don't know if they have any views on the offsides rule...other than to say "well, those are just the rules". Well, when I grew up, there was no three point shot in basketball. The NBA didn't adopt it until 1980, and the NCAA didn't have it until 1986. Also, there was no shot clock in college basketball until 1985. So, I spent the first 30+ years of my life watching that sport without those rules (though the NBA did have the shot clock since the mid-50s)

 

 

I agree with your cousins. (I bolded the type)

 

sheesh! I may have to move this thread elsewhere.

[Browns149]

Why are you not counting Soccer?

[The Gipper]

Why are you not counting Soccer?

Because, for now, Soccer is still minor league.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_professional_sports_leagues_in_the_United_States_and_Canada#Big_Four_leagues

 

 

I am not saying it couldn't become a major league, but right now, it ain't. That league has only been around for like 16 years. Had it predecessor, the NASL, which was formed in 1968, but went defunct in 1984, been able to stick around, that may have been another story. This league needs to prove that it won't suffer the same fate.

Plus, I personally believe that it needs to become more national in scope. Right now it is only 19 teams. All the other majors are 30-32 teams. If it could get up to say, 24 teams, and have a presence in cities where it is absent like Atlanta, Miami, Phoenix, Detroit...and yes, Cleveland, maybe Charlotte, Minneapolis...and show that it can average a decent crowd...then maybe after it is stable in that manner a few years it can be elevated. A few on here will say it can never be a major sport, that it is only for Eurotrash.....but I may not be that harsh.

[The Gipper]

Not that I am going to augment my official list with soccer titles, but if one were to do that he would add the following to respective cities totals:

 

LA +4

DC +4

Houston +2

SF/SJ +2

Chicago +1

Denver +1

KC +1

Salt Lake +1

Columbus +1

[Zombo]

 

[The Gipper]

Why are you not counting Soccer?

Like I said, if the NASL had been able to survive, then perhaps soccer could have attained "major status"...but it didn't. It lasted from 1968-1984. A few things killed it: A. The league was too unstable with its expansion/contraction....in the short course of its 16 year existance, that league had like 67 different teams operating at one time or another. Teams would come in and fold or move after a year or two...if that. Cleveland had a team one year. (The Stokers?....no wonder, bad name). B. The Reagan Recession hit hard in the 80s, causing it to suffer and fold. C. They were paying huge sums of money to European or Brazilian stars....and not watching their revenue. They paid 70% or so of their revenue on player salaries.....where most leagues pay only about 50%.

This new league needs to be careful about that. And though I feel expansion is needed...it cannot be willy nilly.

[Browns149]

Well now, some of the teams have their own stadiums and they don't play in 3/4 empty 70,000 seat football stadiums. The Columbus stadium is about 25,000 seat and has plenty of revenue outside of soccer. They have concert festivals and I think they use it for some things for the Ohio State fair.

 

In any event, they get WAY more use from that place then the Browns get from First Energy Stadium, Home of the Cleveland Browns

[The Gipper]

Well now, some of the teams have their own stadiums and they don't play in 3/4 empty 70,000 seat football stadiums. The Columbus stadium is about 25,000 seat and has plenty of revenue outside of soccer. They have concert festivals and I think they use it for some things for the Ohio State fair.

 

In any event, they get WAY more use from that place then the Browns get from First Energy Stadium, Home of the Cleveland Browns

Do they? How many games a year do they play? Do colleges use that field? High Schools? I would think that they would have at least the Ohio High Soccer Championships played there.

 

As for this area, I contend that Randy Lerner should invest some of the money he got fro JH into a Cleveland MLS team, and stadium. I mean, if that is the sport he really loves, he should bring it to his home town.

[The Gipper]

OK, we will zap this to the top of the line in The Barber Shop. Everthing I said before goes here: Change the rules of soccer to open it up. Removing the offside rule would the simplest, most desirable way.

FYI, I believe that the Indoor Soccer game...which had quite a bit of popularity did not employ the offside rule. But in that sport the ball did not go out of bounds unless it bounced into the stands. Usually it would just bounce off the sideboard, like in hockey, and still be in play.

 

And FYI, I did watch the end of the MLS Championship game between Kansas City and....Seattle?

And you know how that game was decided? On the gimmick of a shootout.

 

Why bother to play the game at all. Just go to a shootout....take the 10 minutes...and go home. Why keep the people in the stands? To sell beer.

It was an affront to my sense of sportsmanship.

Play the "Golden Goal" rule. You hit it in, you win. This is the way of the NHL playoffs. If they have to play an extra 3 hours so be it. They play the game.....not some bastardization of it.

[gftChris]

So more than half the planet watches the game or plays the game in some capacity, but they're all wrong and you're right? I can see you've already had the major points made to you but you stubbornly refuse to change your mind, so there's no point going through it all again, but rest assured, soccer is better with the offside rule in place. And the passback rule. And the advantage rule. And all the other changes that have been made to make it better including formations and tactics. It's not changing just to accommodate you, or other instant-gratification types - it seems to be doing well enough in the states as it is, and you're pretty much the last country to catch on.

[Westside Steve]

The way I see it is that you have to be suspect of any sport in which the two teams playing for the world championship are France and Italy and the final score is 0 to 0.

 

 

WSS

[gftChris]

The way I see it is that you have to be suspect of any sport in which the two teams playing for the world championship are France and Italy and the final score is 0 to 0.

 

 

WSS

You have to be suspect of any sport where the world championship is played by only teams from one country

[MLD Woody]

As a defender, I would hate removing offsides. Having that invisible line there makes my job easier. It is an added tactic to use and would stop my me from running miles and miles in a game.

 

That would be like allowing as many forward passes a play as you like or making everyone on the field an eligible receiver.

 

Chris, I have played my entire life but have never heard of a "passback" rule. Are you talking about passing it back to a goalie and them not being able to pick it up?

[gftChris]

As a defender, I would hate removing offsides. Having that invisible line there makes my job easier. It is an added tactic to use and would stop my me from running miles and miles in a game.

 

That would be like allowing as many forward passes a play as you like or making everyone on the field an eligible receiver.

 

Chris, I have played my entire life but have never heard of a "passback" rule. Are you talking about passing it back to a goalie and them not being able to pick it up?

That's the one. It used to be legal, until it became a ridiculous time wasting technique, and they outlawed it about 20 years ago:

 

 

 

The back-pass rule was introduced in 1992^[3] to discourage time-wasting and overly defensive play after the 1990 World Cup was described as exceedingly dull, rife with back-passing and goalkeepers holding up the ball. Also, goalkeepers would frequently drop the ball and dribble it around, only to pick it up again once opponents came closer to put them under pressure, a typical time-stalling technique.

[MLD Woody]

Wow, I just thought that was always a rule (introduced the year I was born). I can't imagine the game with out that rule

[Westside Steve]

You have to be suspect of any sport where the world championship is played by only teams from one country

True.

Of course the Super Bowl is specifically for American football.

 

The World Series, of course, has at least one non American team, right? Is Canada still a British colony ?

 

 

WSS

[The Gipper]

So more than half the planet watches the game or plays the game in some capacity, but they're all wrong and you're right? I can see you've already had the major points made to you but you stubbornly refuse to change your mind, so there's no point going through it all again, but rest assured, soccer is better with the offside rule in place. And the passback rule. And the advantage rule. And all the other changes that have been made to make it better including formations and tactics. It's not changing just to accommodate you, or other instant-gratification types - it seems to be doing well enough in the states as it is, and you're pretty much the last country to catch on.

And we don't fucking care. If the rest of the world enjoys the snore fest, more power to them then. Enjoy your 0-0 games that are decided by a gimmick shootout.

To me I would think that a purist like you would object to such gimmickry as the shootout. It would be like having a Football game being decided by a Field Goal kicking contest.

It is absurd.

(But what is worse is the College Football Overtime Rules....another major fucking gimmick way of deciding a game. Trust me....for soccer I am merely making suggestions on how to make it more entertaining. If you want the game to stay in medieval times...so be it. For college football, now that is an area that angers me.)

[The Gipper]

As a defender, I would hate removing offsides. Having that invisible line there makes my job easier. It is an added tactic to use and would stop my me from running miles and miles in a game.

 

That would be like allowing as many forward passes a play as you like or making everyone on the field an eligible receiver.

 

Chris, I have played my entire life but have never heard of a "passback" rule. Are you talking about passing it back to a goalie and them not being able to pick it up?

OK, how about this: Keep the offside rule....eliminate the goalie. Do something comparable to the 3 second rule in basketball. Create a perimeter in which no defender is allowed in for more than x number of seconds.

 

FYI....eliminating the offside rule is nothing radical on my part. As noted.....there is no offside rule in Indoor Soccer. So it would not be that radical.

[The Gipper]

Wow, I just thought that was always a rule (introduced the year I was born). I can't imagine the game with out that rule

 

Here is a clue for you: In college basketball,there was no shot clock until 1985. That was also the same year the 3 point shot was instituted.

So, radical changes to a game can be made to make it more entertaining, to speed more action, to encourage more interest.

[The Gipper]

You have to be suspect of any sport where the world championship is played by only teams from one country

To my knowledge no sport in this country professes to claim its championship to be a World Championship.

 

We do have the World Series, but that is more of an ancient moniker that tradition has just held.

 

Though, I will say this: though they are not called that, the Baseball World Series, The Super Bowl, the NBA Championship, and the Stanley Cup/NHL Finals probably indeed are de facto World Championships....for at least 2 reasons:

A. Almost all the best players in those sports play in those leagues. Not all, but nearly all.

 

B. The winner of those titles would almost assuredly be the best team in that sport in the world.

Now, there are some good teams in Japan in Baseball, but the US teams would still probably be better. The same for some European League Basketball and like Russian League Hockey. Those teams probably play at a pretty high minor league level.

 

(note....the MLB put a team in the Dominican Republic...and said that that team must be made up of all the best DR players...it would probably be the best team around)

[MLD Woody]

 

Here is a clue for you: In college basketball,there was no shot clock until 1985. That was also the same year the 3 point shot was instituted.

So, radical changes to a game can be made to make it more entertaining, to speed more action, to encourage more interest.

My thinking was that soccer has been around forever and that's a pretty big rule change pretty recently

[MLD Woody]

OK, how about this: Keep the offside rule....eliminate the goalie. Do something comparable to the 3 second rule in basketball. Create a perimeter in which no defender is allowed in for more than x number of seconds.

 

FYI....eliminating the offside rule is nothing radical on my part. As noted.....there is no offside rule in Indoor Soccer. So it would not be that radical.

Lol , if there was no goalie the games would be stupid. The best players in the world could shoot from damn near anywhere and score. It would completely break the game

 

Indoor soccer isn't outdoor soccer perfectly scaled down, it is a different game. Like flag football to football. There are no offsides because of the small field. There is no need basically. Every player pretty much plays the whole field and losing a guy behind you isn't as much of an issue. There is also less room to work with, which would make it harder to work with an offsides.

 

Forwards who do play far up though in indoor, in a technically offsides position, those guys are called cherry pickers and they're assholes

[The Cysko Kid]

You have to be suspect of any sport where the world championship is played by only teams from one country

Then, uh, why the fuck are you here? See how we're not on some soccer forum because the rest of the world likes it?

[gftChris]

Then, uh, why the fuck are you here? See how we're not on some soccer forum because the rest of the world likes it?

I was making a joke. The point was, no game is perfect. There are plenty of things wrong with the NFL that could be improved if they wanted to expand the game. I just happen to like the current version. And I get that the idea of having a game finish 0-0 is just heresy to some people who crave the big play, highlight reel style of the NFL.

[The Gipper]

Lol , if there was no goalie the games would be stupid. The best players in the world could shoot from damn near anywhere and score. It would completely break the game

 

Indoor soccer isn't outdoor soccer perfectly scaled down, it is a different game. Like flag football to football. There are no offsides because of the small field. There is no need basically. Every player pretty much plays the whole field and losing a guy behind you isn't as much of an issue. There is also less room to work with, which would make it harder to work with an offsides.

 

Forwards who do play far up though in indoor, in a technically offsides position, those guys are called cherry pickers and they're assholes

Ergo....indoor soccer is a much more exciting....interesting game. As for the cherry pickers, I told you how they can be dealt with:

A. If someone cherry picks, then they are weakening the defense. Kind of like giving the team a power play on every offensive attempt.

B. In basketball, cherry pickers are the ones that get elbows to the neck. Give the cherry picker an elbow to the neck and let him know why he got the elbow to the neck and problem solved.