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WPB Dawg Fan

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About WPB Dawg Fan

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    Member since Jan 18, 2007
  • Birthday 04/07/1964

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    West Palm Beach, FL
  • Interests
    All Cleveland Sports, Scuba Diving, Reading, Bowling, Fishing, MY WIFE!!!

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  1. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    I agree we had drops by BOTH QB's...and I also agree that there have been some VERY CATCHABLE passes dropped. But the media is making is sound like it is ALL on the WR's. Like I said in the OP...look at the STATS. They have come up with CRITERIA that they go by...and WE used them with IMPUNITY when deriding BE last year...but now that they point the finger on the MEDIA and our QB...we think they don't apply and that the 2 hand rule wins out. It just isn't that cut and dry. Do we have an issue with the right side of the OL....yes, we do. Do we have an issue with tipped passes (which is a huge portion on the QB as well), yes we do. Is the QB living in a bubble? No...but to coin your phrase...ISN'T THIS THE NFL???
  2. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    Let me be a little more fair in my response... 1. Run across your yard as fast as you can and try to pick up an empty pail without tripping (with both hands)...now try and do it when somebody throws it to you....now try it when they GUN it at you. Which is MOST LIKELY to fail? 2. Try jumping up and touching something at the top of your reach (you will miss from time to time)...now try it with a moving object (try a fan blade)....now try to hit a specific blade on HIGH SPEED. Which is MOST LIKELY to fail? 3. Try standing with your back to your friend about 5 or 10 yards apart. Have him say now and lob a ball at you. Now try it with him throwing it hard...then finally try it when you are counting to 5 and hoping he is counting the same speed. Which is MOST LIKELY to fail? 4. Do you really have no idea why such a high premium is placed on QB's that throw a tight spiral??? 5. Try facing to your right, then reaching behind you with 2 hands and catching a ball. Now try it running. Now try it running as fast as you can AND with the ball coming at you FAST. Which is MOST LIKELY to fail? Just because as a WR you were able to overcome MOST of the QB's bad placement/timing and got your hands on the ball doesn't mean you are automatically going to be able to hang onto it. And I didn't even bring in the concept of shoulder pads, and 250lb LB's hitting you as you try to catch it...or sidelines...or double teams....
  3. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    wow...you must have glue on iron fingers and telepathy to know exactly where the pass is at all times...not to mention perfect timing (which you obviously don't require from your QB)
  4. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    both have ACCURACY! An ACCURATELY thrown fastball is catchable...but an INACCURATE fastball is through to the screens...and in this case, 'dropped'. And not once have I said a QB has to be PERFECT. But rather it is a COMBINATION of issues that is the problem. Elway and Favre are both MASTERS at leading a receiver on slants. They were also both very good at PUTTING AIR under a pass when necessary...and TAKING A LITTLE OFF on the short passes. People love to point out big armed QB's with success as an excuse for current big armed QB's that are NOT successful...but fail to realize that those guys also had touch and finesse. Otherwise, they would all be Jeff George's (happens to be whom I like our current guy to). As for two hands...that I agree with you on...and that is what I used to come up with my 7-10 drops. Any more than that and you are counting finger tips, out of bounds passes, and diving almost got its.
  5. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    I would say between 7-10 for the last 2 games...but NOT 16. Still, too high.
  6. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    I actually agree with it...why put the team in a position where they can't dump quinn if he fails...or have to pay him huge even if he is mediocre.
  7. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    I bet every QB that has ever lived would agree with you (or at least WANT to agree with you)...but here is the reality. Passes are often TOUCHED by the hands despite never having a real chance of being caught. 1. The ball is nose down and below the waste with speed 2. The ball is at the VERY TOP of the receivers reach (finger tips) with speed 3. The ball hits the receiver as they make their BLIND cut with speed 4. The ball is wobbling and unpredictable as it hits the hands (no way to anticipate and get both hands on it) 5. The ball is BEHIND the receiver, with the receiver running across the formation, and throws with speed these are just a few...and note the WITH SPEED comment. A ball thrown low can be caught much more readily if it has touch....same goes for a top pass (look at Eli Manning's pass in the SB caught on the guys head...notice it was NOT zipped)...same goes for a receiver coming out of a blind cut as it gives them time to react...and with a ball BEHIND the receiver as well, as they can make an adjustment. Even though a receiver can make adjustments to any pass, the ability to make them AND do it quickly enough for a ball without touch..it adds up to the receiver is being asked to do it all and the QB is getting the benefit of the doubt. How much nicer if he actually put some TOUCH on it...or had some ACCURACY...EITHER ONE please. But lacking BOTH equals drops (or in my opinion, uncatchable passes...and apparently my opinion is shared by the statisticians).
  8. WPB Dawg Fan

    Dropped Passes

    I have been reading all the articles about how many passes the Browns receivers have dropped...and I find it interesting that what the ARTICLES are claiming doesn't jive with what the STATS are showing. For example...the ARTICLES claim that the Browns have had a MINIMUM of 16 drops over the past two weeks alone. In fact, several have attributed at least 6 dropped passes to MoMass during those two games. Now, compare that with one of the best sites for dropped passes (washingtonpost.com). It shows of the top AFC pass dropping players, that we have 4 guys with 3 or more drops: Royal 5 Stuckey 5 Momass 4 Harrison 3 That is for THE ENTIRE SEASON!!! So, according to the UNINFORMED, AGENDA DRIVEN mass media...the Browns have 16 drops in just two games...but according to NFL STAT GUYS (who accurately had BE with 16 drops last year), the Browns TOP FOUR OFFENDERS only have 17 TOTAL over 6 games. That is mathematically impossible. Add into this, the MEDIA has MoMass with 6 in just two games...but the STAT GUYS have him with 4 for the season. What I am getting at is that we are hearing a lot of crap about our receiving corp that is just not analytical. It is opinion driven...and makes no sense at all. So, unless you want to call into question EVERY OTHER TEAMS DROP STATS (by the way, Carson Palmer's top 4 guys have 15 drops so far...and he still completes 59.1% of his passes and has a QBR of 78.3), you have to admit that the MEDIA has blown this dropped passes thing completely out of proportion. Of course, it doesn't help when Daboll and Mangini are feeding the fire...it almost feels like they are buying DA time to get past NEXT WEEK!?!?!
  9. WPB Dawg Fan

    Maiava & Veikune

    Why Maiava is getting the press for replacing Jackson has been a HUGE issue... Where is Veikune? Is he a bust? etc... Well, here are a couple tidbits about that situation I found interesting: So you see that Veikune was mentioned...but I noticed a the comment about Barton playing the MIKE or WILL...and wondered at that... and then... I would LOVE for us to have a Tedy Bruschi...so am willing to wait for Veikune to develop.
  10. WPB Dawg Fan

    2010 and 2011 Browns FA's

    Below are all the FA's the Browns will have over the next 2 seasons. I have bolded the current starters. 2010 (16 total, 6 starters) LB Blake Costanzo (RFA) K Phil Dawson S Abram Elam TE Greg Estandia WR Mike Furrey TE Michael Gaines RG Rex Hadnot RB Jerome Harrison LB D'Qwell Jackson S Brodney Pool DB Hank Poteat QB Brett Ratliff (ERFA) WR Syndric Steptoe (RFA) LB Jason Trusnik RT Ryan Tucker FB Lawrence Vickers 2011 (13 total, 6 starters) QB Derek Anderson C Hank Fraley DB Gerard Lawson (RFA) RB Jamal Lewis CB Brandon McDonald DE CJ Mosley QB Brady Quinn DE Robaire Smith DB Nick Sorensen WR Chansi Stuckey LB Kamerion Wimbley CB Eric Wright P Dave Zastudil At this point, there are 29 total FA's over the next 2 years...and 12 of them are current starters. Of those that are starters, I would like to retain as starters are the following: Phil Dawson Kamerion Wimbley Brodney Pool Lawrence Vickers D'Qwell Jackson Dave Zastudil Eric Wright Guys that I think are good rotational players are: Blake Costanzo Jerome Harrison Jason Trusnik Hank Fraley Brandon McDonald With just those moves, we will have turned over 5 starters and 17 total players in just 2 years. That is not even including trades and demotions of NON FA players. The Browns do not need to actively burn the team down...they just need to let the natural replacement of players take place over the next 2 seasons and we will likely see about a 50% turnover. Considering the amount of FA's this coming off-season...watch for a VERY ACTIVE front office.
  11. WPB Dawg Fan

    The QB Saga

    I know we have been patting ourselves on the back for the lack of QB threads...but I guess I just couldn't resist. Point of fact, though, is that the real issue I am trying to address is the DECISIONS, not the actual QB's. First, the competition. I actually think that Mangini truly believed that a competition would bring out the BEST in one or both of the QB's. He tried very hard (on the surface at least) to make things equal in repetitions and game situations.....I really can't blame him for the fact that NEITHER really stepped up to win the starting slot. Second, Quinn starting the season. Let's face it...they had to turn the keys over...and with the better stats (although not really good) in pre-season...Quinn won the job. The stats, combined with the fact that he was an unknown commodity, made it difficult NOT to give him the start. Unfortunately.... Third, the PULLING of Quinn. This is probably one of the most scrutinized moves this year. WHY would you pull a young 1st round QB in only his 3rd game??? I for one don't believe he was set up to fail...he just did. I mean, if he came in and killed it, we would be talking about MANGENIOUS....not worrying about our 2nd win. Anyway, here is a possible answer: 9.8 to 8.9 to 5.7 What is that you ask? That is the YARDS PER CATCH. Each week Quinn was still completing passes...but the LENGTH of the passes were going down. With all the checkdowns...you would anticipate low sack totals...but in 10 quarters he was sacked 10 times. Now, I am not blaming all the sacks on Quinn...but something just doesn't jive there. I looked back at the games some...and what I saw was a QB that was THINKING....he wasn't checking down FAST...he was holding onto the ball trying to DECIDE if the first option was open....then second guessing himself and checking down and dumping the ball off....in effect, holding on to the ball too long (taking sacks) and still not pulling the trigger. A QB cannot second guess himself...and Quinn was falling into that trap. He HAD to be pulled. Fourth, DA keeping the start...we are ALL frustrated at this point. DA is putting on EPIC amounts of STINK! So why is DA still starting??? Well, there are 2 reasons IMHO...and one of them IS FINANCIAL. The PRIMARY reason, however, is that this team is still not in a position that will allow a QB with a shaken psyche to come in and succeed. If there is one thing this organization does not want to do is revisit Couch. The hope here is that as the OL gels...and the young RB's and WR's get in step...the surrounding talent will be there later in the season. The SECOND reason...is the finances. Quinn is a CHEAP QB at $700k per year if he doesn't hit his escalators. If he does, he starts getting paid as a franchise type QB. The Browns have NO IDEA if he is a franchise QB...and don't want to be forced into a decision based on that question in the off-season. He would be IMPOSSIBLE to move with that salary if we want to dump him...and he would be IMPOSSIBLE to keep if he didn't just light up the field. So, they wait until the bye week (or the second half of the Chicago game...he can't make the escalators at that point). This does several things. It gives him time to become more attuned to the new receivers...it gives him more time to overcome the issues he had at the beginning of the season...and it prevents him from having to perform at a TOP level to be retained. It seems to me that the Browns brass are counting on keeping Quinn at the current low pay rate for next year. He will either be a cheap starter (if he does well in the second half) or a well priced backup (if he doesn't show much). The Browns can then renegotiate the contract if Quinn becomes the starting calibre QB they hoped for.
  12. WPB Dawg Fan

    Browns Revolution board

    Actually, I think that is part of the problem we had here. If anyone started a post dissecting the issue on the QB, it turned into a name calling bash thread within seconds. So, the lack of posts about it just means nobody is willing to discuss them. Not saying one person or another is to blame for it...but if you can't even discuss a subject without it flaming out...and it is a MAJOR subject...it stops being fun.
  13. WPB Dawg Fan

    Browns Revolution board

    I have been looking at both boards...with the limited time I now have due to work, I am posting less than ever before...but I am on BOTH! I refuse to get into the he said she said stuff on either board...because there are excellent posters on both sites. I still have no idea what actually occurred, but I can tell you that to me a Browns fan is a Browns fan and I will never bash anyone for their personal likes or opinions. A lot of people seem to still think this was all about the QB situation...and while I know I said that I don't know what was at the root of the split, I can tell you that the QB situation WAS NOT IT! Since the split, NEITHER board is jumping up and down proclaiming EITHER QB....so it tells me that there was some intentional antagonism going on...and no, I have no idea who was behind it or why....but suffice to say that it seems both boards are better off for it at this time. I hope to be able to continue to post in both places, as I appreciate everyone's opinions and there is definitely a different 'style' between the two...so... Enjoy! And thanks for keeping me around.
  14. WPB Dawg Fan


    if I had seen this earlier...I would TOTALLY have been HAD
  15. WPB Dawg Fan

    Name This Coach

    Wow....the more I look at the draft of BB in his first year at NE, the more I think of how AWFUL it was. If not for an injury to Bledsoe....Brady would likely never have seen the field...and the ONLY player that BB would have ended up with for more than 4 years would have been a ST's guy!!! Compare that to what we have here this year in Mangini's first draft. Guaranteed Starters: Mack MoMass Probably Starters: Veikune Robiskie Davis Special Teams Guy: Maiava Am I forgetting anyone?