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Unorthodox Football Formations...


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#1 PlaygroundLegend

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:36 PM

The base formations came from this sweet Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia....rican_football)

First and foremost, we have the T formation



Now with the Browns current roster, this formation can be a nightmare with some slight alterations, and I'd also like to say that with the addition of Michael Vick to our roster, we would be unstoppable. With our current roster, what I would do is leave the line in tact but alter the TE's a little bit, the SS TE I would change to WR1 (Braylon), Of course WS TE would be Rucker. Both players have enough speed to be receiving threats. As for what is now WR1, I would Move them to the outside. QB would be Quinn of course, who can if needed gain yards on the ground, HB1 would be Harrison due to his ability to both run, and catch passes, FB would be Josh Cribbs in this scenario, right behind Quinn, where Quinn could duck the snap and have it go straight to Cribbs, he could hand it to Cribbs, or Cribbs could block, or run a route, endless possibilities. HB2 (without Vick on the Team) would be Lewis, traditional pounder, I can see him getting the handoff to the left, look at all those lead blocking options, same for Harrison. (just think what we could do with vick, thats 3 QBs with the ability to run in the backfield plus a scatback)

With a little motion this set can easily become a shotgun, and that would really confuse the D, with Cribbs, Edwards, Rucker and Harrison all running routes with Lewis pass blocking. I dont see a reason this isnt part of our offensive attack.



Single Wing Formation- According to Wikipedia, this is a throwback, and the only NFL team to recently use it is Philly. Talk about a perfect 4th and 1 formation, you could once again throw Harrison, Cribbs, and Lewis on the field at the same time, in short yardage have lewis play the further back with Cribbs and Vickers Pounding LB's out of the way. Dont forget the crazy playaction/ screen possibilites.

I will edit more in, I have to go eat, post some of your play ideas or formation ideas, who knows, maybe theylle be seen and something will look awefully familiar on sunday
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#2 Timugen

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:46 PM

QUOTE (PlaygroundLegend @ Jul 27 2009, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will edit more in, I have to go eat, post some of your play ideas or formation ideas, who knows, maybe theylle be seen and something will look awefully familiar on sunday



Here's what's gonna look familiar on Sunday:

A ball-control offense counting on solid fundamental play to execute a balanced rush/pass game to move the chains without resorting to gimmick formations that seem cool on the Playstation.
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#3 Vegasdogg

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE (PlaygroundLegend @ Jul 27 2009, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
and I'd also like to say that with the addition of Michael Vick to our roster, we would be unstoppable.

Great effort and all with the post, but I had to stop reading here.
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#4 ballpeen

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 08:23 AM

The A-11 is gaining some momentum.

http://www.americanf...Film510x340.swf
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#5 oiram

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 08:42 AM

These formations are simply quick gimmicks. Teams will squeeze by for a year and then get smashed the next year trying ot use them (watch the dolphins NOT attempt these has heavily this year).

Lets just play some farking football and quit with the Maddeneque plays
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#6 blowe

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 09:16 AM

QUOTE (oiram @ Jul 28 2009, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
These formations are simply quick gimmicks. Teams will squeeze by for a year and then get smashed the next year trying ot use them (watch the dolphins NOT attempt these has heavily this year).

Lets just play some farking football and quit with the Maddeneque plays


They are gimmicks that the original poster wanted to see used very occasionally this season. Don't like it, don't read it

QUOTE (ballpeen @ Jul 28 2009, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The A-11 is gaing some momentum.

http://www.americanf...Film510x340.swf


very cool video...though I don't see a 3 man O-Line working very well in the NFL its a cool concept
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#7 Guest_AdaM_*

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 10:46 AM

QUOTE (blowe @ Jul 28 2009, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They are gimmicks that the original poster wanted to see used very occasionally this season. Don't like it, don't read it



very cool video...though I don't see a 3 man O-Line working very well in the NFL its a cool concept




The thing about the a-11 is, so many people are eligible for the ball that if the defense makes the mistake of blitzing the poor 3 o-lineman, the QB can pretty much make a completion every single time. So the Defense starts to react to the offense which just creates more time for plays to develop. This a-11 thing is taking off like wildfire at the HS level.
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#8 Thaak

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 11:49 AM

QUOTE (AdaM @ Jul 28 2009, 10:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing about the a-11 is, so many people are eligible for the ball that if the defense makes the mistake of blitzing the poor 3 o-lineman, the QB can pretty much make a completion every single time. So the Defense starts to react to the offense which just creates more time for plays to develop. This a-11 thing is taking off like wildfire at the HS level.


Yes, but there are those who are trying to get the A-11 banned too. It was originally designed, I believe, by HS teams who couldn't compete because they didn't have a high enough population to field huge offensive lines. So the guy who created this alignment did so to combat size with speed, versatility, and creativity.

I'm sure it doesn't work in college, let alone the NFL.

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#9 Guest_AdaM_*

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:09 PM

QUOTE (Thaak @ Jul 28 2009, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes, but there are those who are trying to get the A-11 banned too. It was originally designed, I believe, by HS teams who couldn't compete because they didn't have a high enough population to field huge offensive lines. So the guy who created this alignment did so to combat size with speed, versatility, and creativity.

I'm sure it doesn't work in college, let alone the NFL.




I dont know where you heard that story, but the A-11 website says different.
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#10 Vegasdogg

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:21 PM

QUOTE (AdaM @ Jul 28 2009, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The thing about the a-11 is, so many people are eligible for the ball that if the defense makes the mistake of blitzing the poor 3 o-lineman, the QB can pretty much make a completion every single time. So the Defense starts to react to the offense which just creates more time for plays to develop. This a-11 thing is taking off like wildfire at the HS level.

I am not sure what the rules in HS are, but in college and the NFL you have to have 5 OL on the line, no? I don't think rules permit 3 OL in the NCAA or NFL. I could be completely wrong since I don't feel like looking it up. And with the speed of the NFL, the offense would get crushed - namely the $100M QB.
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#11 Guest_AdaM_*

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:52 PM

QUOTE (Vegasdogg @ Jul 28 2009, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am not sure what the rules in HS are, but in college and the NFL you have to have 5 OL on the line, no? I don't think rules permit 3 OL in the NCAA or NFL. I could be completely wrong since I don't feel like looking it up. And with the speed of the NFL, the offense would get crushed - namely the $100M QB.



The QB takes a shotgun snap and throws a swing pass to the HB who has 4-5 blockers well before any LB can reach him. The defense really has to know how to adjust or the A-11 puts up TD's all day.


I think if a team pulled the A-11 out of their ass last year on 1 week of practice, they would have beaten the Browns because of how ridiculously bad we adjust on D.
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#12 ballpeen

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 12:59 PM

QUOTE
I'm sure it doesn't work in college, let alone the NFL.


Put the right qb in the mix, and a team who can make the reads, it would work.

Think out of the box.
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#13 LeBrent

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:21 PM

I think I remember reading an article that said the A-11 isn't legal in the NFL or college and the only way they could use in in high school was something to do with assigning numbers that correspond to different positions to different players.

I also thought it involved a sort of hole in the rulebook that had to do with kicking formations? huh.gif

I'll try to find the article but I am pretty sure it would have to be change a lot to be used in the NFL.
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#14 LeBrent

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:29 PM

I just found it. You can read the details but yah, you have to be in a "scrimmage kick" formation with no players wearing numbers between 50 and 79.

Really interesting article, here is the link.

LINK


Banning the A-11 offense is a bad idea

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Michael Weinreb
Special to Page 2


I spoke to a high school football coach named Kurt Bryan on the telephone the other day. He was angry, and I don't blame him, because there are a lot of reasons to be angry in America these days, and the wording of arcane high school football bylaws should not be prominent among them. Yet for some reason, Bryan and his colleague Steve Humphries have become, to a certain segment of the population, an example of what is wrong with this country -- deceitful and unsportsmanlike, insisting upon taking shortcuts to prosperity, bending the rules to fit their whims. To these people, Bryan and Humphries are heretics, championing a radical idea in a sport that does not take easily to change.


"It's amazing what some people will do in their attempt to stop progress," said Bryan, who, I will admit, can go a little overboard in his eagerness to provide a good quote. But in this case, given that several years of work have potentially been thrown out by a room full of men he's never met, he seems to have a point.



There are 10 different types of options in the A-11 offense (triple, crack, fly, jab, yo-yo, etc). In this play the A-11 staggers the QBs, short snaps and runs a quick hitting "speed" option on the end.
In August, I first spoke to Bryan, the football coach at Piedmont High School in California, and Humphries, the team's offensive coordinator, about an offense they'd created called the A-11, which had already caught on at several other high schools and at least a few colleges across the country (and had also raised eyebrows in the NFL, according to an article by ESPN's David Fleming). It is a complex hybrid of the spread offense, a Dunder-Mifflin fire drill and a game of capture the flag, and to some of us, it looked quite a bit like the future. In the base formation, there are two quarterbacks and "pods" of three receivers on each side, and the whole thing is mind-blowing, and at first seems like it should be cause for 17 penalties. Except that it is perfectly legal on the high school level, thanks to a loophole in the rules that allows all 11 players to be potentially eligible on what is known as a scrimmage-kick formation, if everyone is wearing numbers between 1-49 and 80-99.


Or at least it was legal, until last month, when at a meeting of the National Federation of State High School Associations in Indianapolis, the rules committee, comprised of state representatives, voted 46-2 to close the loophole. Now, on first, second and third downs, at least four players must wear numbers between 50 and 79, which kind of kills the buzz, since the whole notion of the A-11 was that all 11 players could potentially catch a pass before the ball was snapped.


SportsNation on A-11 Offense
Should the A-11 have been banned? Will we see it and other innovations in the NFL or college? Register Register your vote now.

The reasoning, according to a West Virginia official on the rules committee, was that this whole scheme was "unethical," a "deception" based on a loophole in the rules. In North Carolina, where the A-11 has been declared an "unsporting act," the supervisor of officials declared it was "outside the spirit of the rule code."


"Was the A-11 talked about? Sure it was talked about," said NFHS assistant director Bob Colgate, a liaison to the rules committee. "There was a lot of experience in that room, and they were very familiar with the A-11. There must have been a concern out there somewhere if 46 members voted that way."


Of course, the A-11 was already banned in West Virginia and North Carolina and a handful of other states before the committee voted to ban it nationally, all of which makes it seem as if Humphries and Bryan are somehow using this offense to artificially drive up stock prices or kidnap small children.


In fact, Humphries and Bryan originally devised this idea because they had too many undersized kids on their team already, and were struggling to form a complete offensive line; as one of the smaller schools in their division of the California Interscholastic Federation (CIF), they stumbled upon this loophole in the rules and spent months designing a system that would allow them to become more competitive. Then, they say, they ran it by CIF officials, just to be sure. They've been competing with it for two years now, and claim they've gotten few complaints from either opponents or officials. It certainly hasn't rendered them invincible; this past year, they went 8-3, and lost in the first round of the playoffs. And Bryan insists it hasn't made them rich, either. Despite the fact hundreds of schools nationwide have picked up on the A-11, despite the fact that they sell A-11 install manuals on their Web site for $149 each, Bryan figures his royalties have amounted to approximately $1,200. He tells me he's given away most of his secrets for free. "I drive a Honda!" he says. "It's like, if we don't share, we're a--holes. If we do, we're greedy."


Given the media attention this thing has gotten, it would not surprise me if there is an element of jealousy involved. But I do think this is about something bigger, something more than merely a single bylaw, or even a single offense. (Otherwise, isn't any sort of motion or play-action or halfback pass also inherently "deceptive"?) This is about progress, and what it means for the future of football, and there are certain officials on that rules committee who apparently have a sincere concern that offenses like the A-11 -- offenses that spread the field to its edges -- will, indeed, ruin football as we know it.



Wasn't the past NFL season made a little more exciting by the WildDawg formation?
The problem is that these concerns now seem both antiquated and exclusionary. This past college football season proved that the game has already evolved, and will continue to evolve (Bryan, in fact, recently returned from a clinic with a Pac-10 team), and while the NFL can be glacially slow to adapt, it will no doubt get there at its own pace (with or without Ronnie Brown). In the meantime, Bryan and Humphries are not mandating that other schools adopt their methods; all they are asking for is the freedom to continue to develop their experiment in peace. They recently petitioned the CIF to adopt a three-year experimental policy that would either modify the NFHS rule to allow three ineligible receivers (numbered 50-79) within the formation, or reject the rule altogether -- a transgression which would cost the CIF its vote on the rules committee (this has already happened to many states in many other sports, including basketball. The CIF uses a shot clock despite the NFHS's refusal to adopt it -- which, at least in terms of appearances, does not exactly make the NFHS seem "in touch" with the future. I'm not sure what their position is on the picket fence play.)


"These guys love saying it's not going to happen, but it's already happened!" Bryan shouted at me. "It's an innovation that's already been proven, and they want it go away. What are you, crazy?"


The critics would surely insist that they are not insane, that they are merely combatting lawlessness and closing a loophole that was never meant to be there in the first place, that they are somehow preserving the integrity of the game by keeping its roots planted firmly on the ground. They discount the ingenuity Humphries and Bryan have shown in implementing an entire system based on a loophole no one had noticed before; they discount the value of sheer inventiveness. But this has always been the case, and it always will be. After all, at least 50 percent of the purpose of the game of football is to retard forward progress.


"The offense should have to earn what it gets, and it doesn't today," a prominent coach once said. "The touchdowns have been cheapened and so have the records. They should call it 'passball.'"


These words were, in fact, spoken by George Allen, the former coach of the Washington Redskins. And he said them in 1985.


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#15 Kosar_For_President

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE (LeBrent @ Jul 28 2009, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think I remember reading an article that said the A-11 isn't legal in the NFL or college and the only way they could use in in high school was something to do with assigning numbers that correspond to different positions to different players.

I also thought it involved a sort of hole in the rulebook that had to do with kicking formations? huh.gif

I'll try to find the article but I am pretty sure it would have to be change a lot to be used in the NFL.


I think I know what you are talking about. I think they disallowed the school to compete in the state finals because they were kicking teams asses like 70-0 with their backups in.
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#16 Gafreleets

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:35 PM

this is just plain retarded.


enough.


i think the browns should worry much more about excecuting the playbook they currently have than trying to implement some high school, single-A, gimmick bullcrap.


but hey, i'm a steeler fan, so go for it.

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#17 Gafreleets

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:39 PM

and did i really read you say "with Cribbs pounding LBs out of the way"???


really?


cribbs is your road grader?


rolleyes.gif gotta love browns fans.
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#18 Kosar_For_President

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE (Nafreleets @ Jul 28 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
this is just plain retarded.


enough.


i think the browns should worry much more about excecuting the playbook they currently have than trying to implement some high school, single-A, gimmick bullcrap.


but hey, i'm a steeler fan, so go for it.


Hey dude it's the off season.

You know, in our off season we have a lot more free time. See, we don't have to worry about "complications" from yer' cousin havin' yur' baby, how long should I wait until I get my mullet cut or worry about playing "what's inside my belly button hole".

Or for that matter, worry about if our QB is going to rape someone else.
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#19 Guest_AdaM_*

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 01:50 PM

Apparently you havent seen him flatten a 250lb ST'er on a kick off.
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#20 Gafreleets

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 06:33 PM

QUOTE (Kosar_For_President @ Jul 28 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey dude it's the off season.

You know, in our off season we have a lot more free time. See, we don't have to worry about "complications" from yer' cousin havin' yur' baby, how long should I wait until I get my mullet cut or worry about playing "what's inside my belly button hole".



one offseason complication you guys will NEVER have to worry about........"post-superbowl winning hangover" like we've had to deal with 2 out of the last 4 years. it's a real pain, and you should consider yourselves lucky to NEVER have to worry about it. laugh.gif


QUOTE (AdaM @ Jul 28 2009, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Apparently you havent seen him flatten a 250lb ST'er on a kick off.



apparently you don't know the difference between blindside earholing a guy on ST and runblocking on a regular basis against LBs that are looking for those lead blockers.

Ward is really great at lighting up people when they're not looking too (funny though how you guys tout your players ability to do something that you regularly call Ward 'dirty' for) but there is a reason he's not the Steelers fullback.
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