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#1 Tour2ma

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:55 AM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.
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#2 Harry Buffalo

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:25 AM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.


I don't know how you justify going defense throughout the whole first round and then grab an guard in the second when the team is literally starved for play makers. Kirkpatrick is also not as good as people think. He has really tight hips and doesn't turn well. If someone fools him on their route they are gone.
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#3 Zombo

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:41 AM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.



I kinda hate it.

I love defense, but what year do we start scoring enough points points to win even a defensive battle?

Are we going to put ALL of our resources into one open DL spot this year? I think between Rucker and Bernard they think they have enough there that they took DE off the draft board this year so they can go offense in the draft.

Heckert has even agreed: we are going offense in the draft.

Zombo

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#4 SDBrownsFan

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.


No offensive playmakers until Round 3! And then probably the last of the best Corners I would take- don't like it. And then a Guard! Who plays RT? This is draft that could have happened if we added Winston, Vincent Jackson and kept Hillis. I like the idea of adding Floyd on a trade down. In a perfect world if we can somehow get Floyd and Richardson and a capable RT (that can start Day 1) we're set!

If we somehow go defense in the second round or get an extra pick in the second round- I'd like to add Lavonte David OLB out of Nebraska- undersized but has a nose for the ball and could be a nice pass rusher- reminds me of a cross between Dumervil and Zach Thomas.

This is a very simple draft for me- unless a trade happens. We tried hard to get a QB- its not happening (I hope and pray we aren't somehow putting out smoke and drafting Tannehill) This is the year we evaluate Colt- 4, 22, 37 should be two playmakers and a protector. He has all the essential ingredients (LT, C, RT, Two early pick WRs, some capable TEs and a stud back) If he's the guy i expect our offense to be in the middle of the pack in the NFL (can't expect much more in our division).
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#5 The Gipper

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:16 AM

I kinda hate it.

I love defense, but what year do we start scoring enough points points to win even a defensive battle?

Are we going to put ALL of our resources into one open DL spot this year? I think between Rucker and Bernard they think they have enough there that they took DE off the draft board this year so they can go offense in the draft.

Heckert has even agreed: we are going offense in the draft.

Zombo


Unless, of course Heckert is blowing smoke up our skirts...which he is inclined to do. Watch him draft Claiborne and Zach Brown.
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#6 choco

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

the only good thing about claiborne at 4 is sheps head will quite literally explode.
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#7 Tour2ma

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:25 AM

Thanks all. I know my D first (again) approach goes against the grain, but at least neither my trade scenario nor the player availability was called unrealistic.

I don't know how you justify going defense throughout the whole first round and then grab an guard in the second when the team is literally starved for play makers. Kirkpatrick is also not as good as people think. He has really tight hips and doesn't turn well. If someone fools him on their route they are gone.

HB,
My justification is in Z's section below. On your specifics...

Zeitler is not just any guard. He's thought to be the #2 in the draft and has the tools to play anywhere on the line.

If you look closely at the RB and WR's I tabbed, I think you'll be surprised at the level of play-making there. I'm not kidding when I say Grey has Roger Craig potential. Jones out of Cal grabbed my attention at the combine. His work vs Fresno St is impressive. You can find it at the bottom of this page. He's #1. The NC Jones is more raw, but his size is a draw and reviews have him being a great red zone target with his ability to go up to get the ball.

Dre' run supports like a mofo and his zone work is strong. His height does work against him in man coverage, but he has recovery capability. Time and technique will improve his man2man.

I kinda hate it.

I love defense, but what year do we start scoring enough points points to win even a defensive battle?

Are we going to put ALL of our resources into one open DL spot this year? I think between Rucker and Bernard they think they have enough there that they took DE off the draft board this year so they can go offense in the draft.

Heckert has even agreed: we are going offense in the draft.

Zombo

Z,
Well, at least it's only "kinda hate"... ;)

My counter simply is we will not be able to build a strong enough offense to go anywhere this year, so why not go D first? Yes, we signed some FA DE's, but nothing says they all have to stay. I think Ingram is a generational DE talent. I can no more pass him by than you could RGIII. Add Ingram and IMO we'll be dreaming up nicknames for our D-Line. Adding him and Dre' puts our D in "borderline elite" class. In my view our LB corps still holds us back some, but you've said it's solid, so maybe we'd at least be on the elite side of the border.

On the offensive side of the ball Zeitler, Jones and Grey are all high quality players that can step right in and start game 1. Based on what I saw in them they are all high-value picks. They'd make the O competent in 2012. I don't think Blackmon or Floyd and Richardson make us better than competent, and IIRC you don't want to spend a Rnd 1 pick on the OL. Zeitler is as good as we are likely to find at #36.

Is it possible Heckert's "Offense" proclamation is a head-fake? That said he does tend to alternate which side of the ball his drafts emphasize and he never gets too far out of balance in a given draft. But there's always a first time.

Bottom line: We have a chance to be really, really good on one side of the ball and stay that way for years to come. And we can get there while significantly improving our offense... which is not exactly hard to do. What we cannot do in this draft is make our offense really good (let alone really, really good). I'm aiming for a good, competent Offense and I think my picks plus a second year under the WCO will get us there.

No offensive playmakers until Round 3! And then probably the last of the best Corners I would take- don't like it. And then a Guard! Who plays RT? This is draft that could have happened if we added Winston, Vincent Jackson and kept Hillis. I like the idea of adding Floyd on a trade down. In a perfect world if we can somehow get Floyd and Richardson and a capable RT (that can start Day 1) we're set!

This is a very simple draft for me- unless a trade happens. We tried hard to get a QB- its not happening (I hope and pray we aren't somehow putting out smoke and drafting Tannehill) This is the year we evaluate Colt- 4, 22, 37 should be two playmakers and a protector. He has all the essential ingredients (LT, C, RT, Two early pick WRs, some capable TEs and a stud back) If he's the guy i expect our offense to be in the middle of the pack in the NFL (can't expect much more in our division).

SDBF,
My thought process is pretty well covered in first two parts, so I've got questions for you.

Aside from Claiborne, who do you have ahead of Kirkpatrick?

How do you simultaneously say our offense will be "set with TR, Floyd and a RT" yet "middle of the pack"? Is that your definition of "set"?

Zeitler can handle RT. Who are you drafting in Rnd 1 or 2 to play RT?

I do agree on Tannehill. I like him, but not as a 1st rounder.
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#8 Zombo

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:01 PM

Unless, of course Heckert is blowing smoke up our skirts...which he is inclined to do. Watch him draft Claiborne and Zach Brown.[/color]

--Gipper

Is it possible Heckert's "Offense" proclamation is a head-fake?

--Tourma

And who would he be trying to fake out?

The whole world knows we need offense.

This is a team with an offense first President and an offense first Head Coach who has hired every WCO offensive assistant out there to his staff.

Mangini is gone folks. So is RAC and Butch.

These guys replaced one WR last year, they will replace the other this year. They dumped the RB and the RT, they will be replaced. They haven't been shy about the fact that they'd like to replace the QB.

Dmitri Patterson, Frostee Rucker ... those guys are stepping into major roles on the defense, I don't think we'll add another defensive starter this year unless it is a free safety.

We are going offense, folks.

First pick is Blackmon or Richardson.

Second pick is Tannehill or a right tackle.

Third pick is what's left: RB, WR or RT

Zombo

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#9 SDBrownsFan

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:03 PM

"My counter simply is we will not be able to build a strong enough offense to go anywhere this year, so why not go D first?"

Because we have a Head Coach and GM fighting for approval and ultimately their jobs. They certainly aren't thinking like this. That's not the way business is done in the NFL. The offense was putrid to the point it made our defense look worse than it was (on the field too long becuase of 3 and outs)- can you stand another year? Mind you we have a new offensive system in place and we still have misfit parts and a make or break year to evaulate the most important position QB who we've given no support other than a LT and a Center. I get the make the defense legendary- that's appealing to me but after last season not practical. I just see good talents in the slots we are taking guys at- If Mario Williams 4 or 5 years ago was there at #4- different story.

"I think Ingram is a generational DE talent."

I think he's good but he's right in line with Richardson, Blackmon - don't get me wrong they are all very good talents. I actually rate Richardson of the three the highest and think his punishing style fits the fan base and team well. Two months ago this was a bad draft for DEs and Coples was considered the stud. In my opinion Luck, RGIII, Kalil are your elite studs this year- all three are likely to be Top 5 at their positions fairly soon.


"Aside from Claiborne, who do you have ahead of Kirkpatrick?"

A huge void and drop off. Why move up a draft for a non-stocked position at a position I might add where you have a #1 corner already. We got something right its our LT, C and #1CB. Why...why...why. You could argue Gilmore, Jenkins, Kilpatrick are compliments #2 guys to good (not legendary) secondaries. Again just my opinion I'm not a NFL scout.

How do you simultaneously say our offense will be "set with TR, Floyd and a RT" yet "middle of the pack"? Is that your definition of "set"?

Playing Pittsbugh and Baltimore 4 times a year and Cincy with D guru Marvin Lewis another couple times. Middle of the pack statistically is fine by me- at least we give the D some rest and not put them at midfield to start drives half the game. That's a big step in my opinion. If our offense is competent like this we are playoff team possibly.

Zeitler can handle RT. Who are you drafting in Rnd 1 or 2 to play RT?

Good question that is not easy to handle. If you trade back and take Floyd and acquire a pick (probably a 2nd rounder) I try to move up and get Adams who probably has the most upside and is a natural fit at RT. Tomlin and Steelers love Adams. I'll defer to their expertise- they obviosuly see something.

I do agree on Tannehill.

THANK YOU- I'm praying we don't take this kid at all to be honest with you.
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#10 The Gipper

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:08 PM

[quote name='Zombo' timestamp='1332262887' post='279096']
--Gipper


--Tourma

And who would he be trying to fake out?

You, maybe? Or other NFL teams possibly by trying to make them think they want to grab a particular player, thus forcing the hand of someone else to try to make a bold move to go up and grab a player they really are not interested in. I really do think it is possible that they may have pulled this maneuver regarding RGIII. I am not convinced at all that they were really all that high on him.

The whole world knows we need offense.

This is a team with an offense first President and an offense first Head Coach who has hired every WCO offensive assistant out there to his staff.

Mangini is gone folks. So is RAC and Butch.

These guys replaced one WR last year, they will replace the other this year. They dumped the RB and the RT, they will be replaced. They haven't been shy about the fact that they'd like to replace the QB.

Dmitri Patterson, Frostee Rucker ... those guys are stepping into major roles on the defense, I don't think we'll add another defensive starter this year unless it is a free safety.

We are going offense, folks.

First pick is Blackmon or Richardson.

Second pick is Tannehill or a right tackle.

Third pick is what's left: RB, WR or RT

[b][color="#006400"]We shall see when the draft comes. I expect you are right....but don't snort your beer when they pick Claiborne and a LB in the first round.

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#11 PoeticG

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:50 PM

I like mine a little bit more but thanks for the effort.

Round 1
#04- Trent Richardson- This kid is a handful for a defense and has loads of talent. He'll step in at RB and excel right away. No drop off or learning curve needed. Just give the guy the ball and watch as he shock and awes the defense in his wake. He will be a playmaker and help put points on the board as well as help Colt in the passing game. He can stay in to help block for Colt and can help burn the defense with the play action pass. You can't ask for more out of a runningback and the Browns should have one of the best in the league come the end of April. He's young with low mileage and he's curse free.

#22- Stephen Hill/Kendall Wright- I would love it if Stephen Hill were to fall to this spot but based upon his combine he may be taken earlier than many expected. If Hill is still available I jump for joy because that would give us two nice targets in Hill and Little. If Hill is gone than I think it would be a nice pick to grab Kendall Wright, he may still be around based upon his combine numbers. The guy ran a little slower than many thought that he would but I think it's pretty clear that he is a playmaker. He made huge plays on gameday and I think he would be good in our offense.

Round 2
#37- Kevin Zeitler- Would help solidify our OL and would probably best be suited to learn the LG spot between all pros Joe Thomas and Alex Mack. Pinkston could then move to the RT and Lavaman could man the RG. That, I would hope, would help to stunt the defense just a little to help give Colt some time or open up a running lane for Trent Richardson. Thomas, Zeitler, Mack, Lava, Pinkston. I like it! It's young and strong, Lava needs to prove himself this year.

Round 3
#68- Chase Minnifield- He had a minor knee scope to remove floating debris that nagged at him this last season. Probably the reason he didn't do well at the combine. He should get better here shortly and he'll be a nice addition in the secondary for Cleveland. He could fight for a starting role early at cornerback OR move to Free Safety, where many think he would excel. Cleveland also has a need for an upgrade at FS so this pick makes sense. Not to mention his father and Dixon started the Cleveland Brown's Dawgpound and the fact that he would love to play for Cleveland makes this pick a no-brainer.

Round 4
Cleveland has two picks in the fourth and having addressed RB, WR, OL and FS, I feel like they could go a number of ways here on out. They might look to add to the pile of WRs by taking a flier on McNutt or maybe the embattled Vontaze Burfict. Burfict is a High Risk high Reward type player. I feel that Dqwell Jackson is a very good leader and role model and could do wonders for devil from the valley of the sun.
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#12 Harry Buffalo

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:51 PM

Thanks all. I know my D first (again) approach goes against the grain, but at least neither my trade scenario nor the player availability was called unrealistic.


HB,
My justification is in Z's section below. On your specifics...

Zeitler is not just any guard. He's thought to be the #2 in the draft and has the tools to play anywhere on the line.

If you look closely at the RB and WR's I tabbed, I think you'll be surprised at the level of play-making there. I'm not kidding when I say Grey has Roger Craig potential. Jones out of Cal grabbed my attention at the combine. His work vs Fresno St is impressive. You can find it at the bottom of this page. He's #1. The NC Jones is more raw, but his size is a draw and reviews have him being a great red zone target with his ability to go up to get the ball.

Dre' run supports like a mofo and his zone work is strong. His height does work against him in man coverage, but he has recovery capability. Time and technique will improve his man2man.




There is a reason those guys are not in the 1st and 2nd round though. They are gambles and that is why they are being taken in the 3rd and later. We need offensive play makers that we know are going to be able to be good.
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#13 miktoxic

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:23 PM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.



love everything about this^^ +100!
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#14 SDBrownsFan

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:39 PM

#4 Richardson RB Alabama- Can handle the ball 25-30 times a game. We need a guy capable of taking the pressure off of Colt. Can catch the ball out of the backfield. Holmgren had a Bama back before that got him to the Super Bowl (Shaun Alexander). Clearly the best back and one of the best to come out the past few years.

#22 Mike Adams- Plug in and play at RT. Oline is finally a complete unit.

#37 Lavonte David OLB Nebraska- Tackle machine- will take over weakside backer position.

3rd Round Greg Childs WR Ark.- Perfect West Coast offense WR.

4a. TY Hilton WR Flor. A&M- Slot Speed. Good hands. Knickname "Goodbye" says it all.

4b. Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin. Younger Wallace with a better arm.

Best available the rest of the way.
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#15 cambridgeho

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:47 PM

I truley hope we snag Ryan Broyles with our 3rd pick. He is made for the west coast passing game.
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#16 Tour2ma

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:59 AM

Or other NFL teams possibly by trying to make them think they want to grab a particular player, thus forcing the hand of someone else to try to make a bold move to go up and grab a player they really are not interested in. I really do think it is possible that they may have pulled this maneuver regarding RGIII. I am not convinced at all that they were really all that high on him.

Happens all the time... and I'd really like to believe it happened around RGIII.

There is a reason those guys are not in the 1st and 2nd round though. They are gambles and that is why they are being taken in the 3rd and later. We need offensive play makers that we know are going to be able to be good.

Rnd 1 and 2 players only come with one guarantee... that they'd better be great, not just good.

love everything about this^^ +100!

Finally... an intelligent appraisal... :D

#4 Richardson RB Alabama- Can handle the ball 25-30 times a game. We need a guy capable of taking the pressure off of Colt. Can catch the ball out of the backfield. Holmgren had a Bama back before that got him to the Super Bowl (Shaun Alexander). Clearly the best back and one of the best to come out the past few years.
Good point on Shaun. Loved TR as a Jr. He made me believe Ingram was the 2nd best back at Bama. I'm just not sold on TR staying healthy... especially after his bulking up. Plus I think Gray is a much better WCO fit.

#22 Mike Adams- Plug in and play at RT. Oline is finally a complete unit.
Serious reservations about Mike at the NFL level.

#37 Lavonte David OLB Nebraska- Tackle machine- will take over weakside backer position.
Love his speed, but a bit undersized for my tastes.

3rd Round Greg Childs WR Ark.- Perfect West Coast offense WR.
The pre-injury Childs definitely (but that Childs would not be around in Rnd 3). Is he back?

4a. TY Hilton WR Flor. A&M- Slot Speed. Good hands. Knickname "Goodbye" says it all.
Two words: Drew Rosenhaus

4b. Russell Wilson QB Wisconsin. Younger Wallace with a better arm.
Strong pro day from the write-ups. I'd never considered him based upon a couple so-so games at WI I saw.



I truley hope we snag Ryan Broyles with our 3rd pick. He is made for the west coast passing game.

Injury is off-putting.
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#17 SidelineScouting

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:33 PM

I've been picking away at my draft for a couple weeks. My critique of Mike H's "Latest" prompted me to wrap it up. Spent a few hours on it tonite (who needs sleep) and here it is for your consideration...

Not sold on Blackmon. If I take a WR in Rnd 1 it'd be Floyd... and I don't need a #4 to get him. So I shop the #4 to Miami for their #8 plus either their 2nd or two-3rds with the latter more likely. For competition I shop the pick as low as Carolina at #9. And of course I will consider offers from the Rams at #6 and Jags at #7... which would give me a shot at Floyd. But if he's gone, no sweat because with my first 1st round pick I take Ingram DE, the player I really want.

Then I package up my #22 with a lesser piece of my above trade-down to move up to Philly's #15 and snatch Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB) out from under Cinci's nose (per some Mocks). I actually like Dre' more than Claiborne.

Rnd 1:
1.4 => Miami (1.8 + 3.09 + 3.10 )
1.8 (Miami) - Melvin Ingram (DE-NC) - 6'1"/264 THE impact DE in the draft and the final piece of our D-line.
1.15 (Philly) - Dre' Kirkpatrick (CB-Bama) - 6'2"/186 & 4.51 speed. Opposite Haden... gotta love that.
1.22 + 3.10 ==> Philly (1.15)

Rnd 2:
2.5: Kevin Zeitler (OG-Wis) - 6'4"/314 A solid piece of that beast of a line WI featured. Strong and mobile.

Rnd 3:
3.4 - Marvin Jones (WR-Cal) - 6'2"/200 & 4.46 speed.
3.9 (Miami) - Cyrus Grey (RB-A&M) - 5'10"/206 & 4.47 speed and 100+ catches. Roger Craig potential... I swear...
3.10 (to Philly from Miami from Chicago via Carolina) lotta mileage on this pick...

Rnd 4:
4.5 - Keenan Robinson (OLB-TX) - 6'3"/242 Straight rip-off of Mike H's. Easily the best mid-round OLB value I see.
4.23 (ATL) - Dwight Jones (WR- NC) - 6'3"/230 & 4.55 speed and a jumper.

Rnd 5:
5.4 - Nick Foles (QB-AZ) - 6'5"/245 Stock fell in combine; love his size, mechanics and arm.

Rnd 6:
6.5 - Coty Sensabaugh (CB, Clem) - 5'11"/189 & 4.42 speed plus cover skills... and still learning.

Rnd 7:
7.4 - Donald Stephenson (OT-OK) - 6'6"/312 & 4.94! Can hit the weights and develop into solid lineman.

That's it. I think it takes the D to the next level, and adds enough talent to the offense to make it competitive.



IMO, it's not smart to mock trades because there's too many factors that go into each move. The trades seem to be one sided looking at the reasons that Cleveland would do them, while ignoring the reasons the other teams wouldn't.

1.) Why is Miami moving up to 4? Their top need would either be at quarterback, wide receiver or to add a pass rusher. There are players at those positions that will be available at #8. They'd have to be completely sold on Justin Blackmon to do that trade. That's the only thing that makes sense, if they were completely sold on Blackmon and moved to get ahead of St. Louis and Jax. And that's a big assumption to make, that's not a slam dunk pick.

2.) Why is Philadelphia trading down? Their top need right now is an offensive tackle with Jason Peters' terrible injury. There's only a couple OT's in this draft worthy of taking in the first round. Moving down decreases your chances of landing one. Big risk to take. Especially moving behind San Diego and Chicago who both could take OTs.


The picks aren't bad, but the Browns ignore two of their biggest needs at quarterback and running back. Foles and Gray are reserves. Gray is your typical mid round back who will have flashes, but is more of a platoon guy and Foles is a backup QB who would likely push Colt for a year until Colt is ultimately replaced.
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#18 Tour2ma

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 12:42 AM

Kinder reply than I expected (or probably deserved)...

My original thought was that Miami would trade up to ensure they get Tannehill. I've since rethought this in my trade down thread here. There I say...

8 Miami Dolphins
Tannehill... clearly we're the only team above them that might be interested in him... and I don't think we are... and I don't think they think we are... So no trade there.

In the trade down thread I don't find a probable trade partner until Dallas at #14 (who I think would pay handsomely for a shot at Claiborne).

As for Philly... I did my mock on 20 March. Peters destroyed his Achilles on 27 March. At the time Philly was projected to be after a DT due to Patterson's health questions. It looked to me that at least one of their projected guys (Cox or Brocker) would be there at 22. So I felt I was giving a 3rd (fair value) to Philly to wait seven picks to get someone they wanted. Win-Win...

I understand where you're coming from with your mock trade caution, but there are going to be draft day trades. The Vik's are holding up the works right now. If they dealt the #3 tomorrow (maybe to Miami???), teams interested in Kalil would be ringing our phone off the hook. But as of now I don't see activity beyond "feelers" until draft day. And once the Vik's make their pick I think we will make a deal.

The intriguing thing is we can initiate speculative talks with Dallas and other teams with picks 10 to 16-ish under the guise of trading up our #22, and use that info to gauge their interest in trading up to #4.

Anyway I've found that thinking about trades is as interesting as the actual draft.

As for my draft...

I'm happy enough with Colt in 2012. What I build around him will be there next year around my 2013 QB, whomever that is... It might be Colt. It might be Foles who has the tools. It's his dedication that is the question.

As for RB, I'm for adding Cedric Benson thru FA so I only need Gray to be a complimentary back in a 2012 RB-by-committee arrangement. And I think Gray has a chance of being something special in the WCO long term.

I am also very high on Cal's Marvin Jones (WR).

I'm reworking my mock in light of our extensive FA activity at DE, the Peters injury and my declining interest in Kirkpatrick. The shame is of it is that Ingram was #2 on my board after Luck... Now there's something to criticize... ;)

Thanks for your thoughts and questions...

I saw where you did post your notes on more of your picks. I'll take a look tomorrow.
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