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THE BROWNS BOARD

Coaching staff report card


Mudfly

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Ok....lets look at the coach and see where we are......and, to me, it's the top 4 guys that we can honestly assess, as none of us knows what the position coaches are doing....or their level of performance....

 

So.....it's OC......DC......STC.....and HC......that really count....and are visible enough to assess.....

 

Lets start with the easiest.....DC.....When the new staff was brought in, there was a ton of "this staff is GREAT".....and "we'll be better, just because of coaching""......and, although Horton was already fired by us just 2 years prior, there was a bunch of optimism that "this time will be different, cause Oneills system sucked" etc etc etc....but it wasn't to be.....simply put, the defense was a complete failure and Horton did nothing to improve it....a new scheme did nothing but make us worse(which is hard to imagine, yet came true).....so, this hire at least gave me comfort that my original assessment was right.....the problem was all about talent, not coaching or scheme .....sorry guys, it's just the truth.....and the FO established by basically canning 1/2 of the defensive roster(putting Horty even further behind the gun)....(cause if Oneill had poor talent, Horty was given even less)

 

But, as it goes with the Browns, "someone HAD to fired"....so Good Bye Horty......(some things never change).....the good news is that 1) this staff was allowed to adjust, as opposed to being vanquished......2) the Browns hired a new DC that everyone seems to like.....

 

I have nothing to grade on Williams on yet....but he does talk a good game.....and I like his forthright nastyish demeanor. The proof will be in the pudding soon enough.....so, right now, last years D gets an F minus.....this year?.....we will see....but I expect a notable improvement, based upon new talent AND a new coaching philosophy.....expectations are high....So, cmon Williams, make it happen!!!!!

 

Next is STC....Chris Tabor.....teflon don.....tenure unlike anything Ive ever seen.....Here's how I see it......our special teams pretty much sucked last year.....though I blame it more on talent and less on the coach. Tabor has shown that he can coach talent....but when you have no kickers and no returners, things can get dicey. Its unfortunate, with all the young talent & 4 new WR's, that we dont have a returner in the group.....maybe that will change this season.....but, in RE to Tabor, I honestly have no issues with how he coaches and have always liked him.....his history has been strong enough......Id like to keep him around and see what he does with talent and a returner.....Peppers and Gonzalez need to step in a kill it!!!

 

Next comes Hue....and he gets 2 separate assessments....one as OC and one as HC....2 completely different roles.....and 2 completely separate grades......

 

Though, Ima say it right now.....HE SHOULD NOT BE THE OC.....period. Be the head coach and get some people to handle the coordinators jobs....plain and simple.....dude is in over his head, trying to turn around an historically bad franchise....evaluate massive quantities of new talent.....managing a newly assembled staff.....coaching up 3 rookie QB's......all while planning and strategizing offensive schemes and game plans?.....cmon man.....bad move.....

 

Now....as an OC, here is what I see.....I saw a lot of focus to this side of the ball in our draft, with the selection of Kessler, Devalve, Shon Coleman and the 4 Wr's......and, while we did take a big step back on the OL, I felt the offense didnt get nearly as pillaged as the D side of the ball did....and they got 8 outta the first 12 picks.....we still had the same RB's(one year better).....the same QB, with a new prospect.....the same TE's, with 2 new prospects......and, presumably, had made major improvements at WR, with Pryor and the 4 newbies.....

 

So, with all this^^^^^^^, I think the offensive SHOULD have played better and should have improved over 2015....yet, in the end, this offense performed poorly and was actually worse than the preceding year,,,,and I honestly dont think that should have happened...

 

We definitely did not see elevated play...elevated schemes....getting any extra from average players....etc...

 

Im not here to rip Hue's offense to shreds.....but dont see anything to make me thing he is a wiz at this stuff. I saw some crazy alignments, that fooled no one(desperation moves, ifn your askin me) and some insanely boneheaded play calling and errors during game time. Some of them were beyond belief, they were so bad. Honestly, I could list a long long diatribe of these plays/moves/decisions, but thats not why Im here. Im here to say I dont have a list of good stuff that happened......and, rather than smash Hue into the ground on his play calling, preparation and game planning....Ill just say that we NEED to get a real OC....who is focused on the offense only.....Hue is not the guy to be doing this.....period.

 

And that OC should also be tasked with selecting who plays where.....and when. Just saying, Hue kind of failed that equation for me too. Examples are many....The Cam experiment should never have extended into the season, let alone through out the season.....Griffin is not earth moving.......Crow and Duke had way way to few touches.....with injuries to Coleman and Pryor, along with poor performances from Louis and Coleman, we should have seen MUCH more Higgins/Payton.....and on... and on....

 

So....as an OC, I honestly think we've taken a step back and really need someone who is focused on this role 24/7.....not just part time.......and I think we made a GREAT move by bringing in Williams....and should have done the same at OC......(perhaps next year)

 

As a head coach.....I see Hue as the right guy for right now......meaning he is not the guy to take us to the promised land, but he is perfect for dealing with lots of youthful(immature) players and managing a losing locker room. It takes a special type of personality to lose every single week.....week after week....and still come back with the energy to fight another week. It also takes a strong effort to keep this team looking forward and to build the (kinda weird) sense of optimism they have maintained, even after a 1-15 season.....Hue is the eternal optimist.....always looking forward.....always thinking well get better.....

 

Imagine Williams, as HC, after losing 12 straight games(or 15).....I think he's lose his freaking mind!!!!....he would probably stop functioning.....as many coaches would.....BUT Hue has a way of dealing with it.....and , in the end, I think he is one of the few that finds a way to keep things positive and to keep the players focused on the future....

 

In re to the other aspects of HC.....I think Hue was instrumental in attracting higher quality position coaches. His predecessor was saddled with a bunch of college coaches and dregs....while Hue was able(and had the time) to attract some top notch talent.....so, that will have a positive effect going forward.....

 

The negatives I see with Hue are more about the X's and O's....game coaching and strategy......and talent evaluation.....Most of the game stuff and X'x O's was discussed above.....IE: get an OC....But I do see enough issues to make me believe he is not a great HC and we will need better if we want to win big....

 

So...like the FO.....he could get better going forward...he will have to, if he wants to win......My main thing Ill be watching early is how he handles the fresh recruits....and where he plays them.....(felt like we mishandled Ogbah and set him back, by changing his positions 4 times in 10 weeks).....so, how they do with Peppers, Njoku, etc will be interesting....

 

I also felt that he mis-evaluated the talent and progress of a number of players.....putting them, in essence, in position to fail....as opposed to setting them up for success.....I saw this happen with Kessler, Schobert AND Ogbah....to name just a few......

 

So....Ive heard recently that the FO is really who is selecting the final 53.....and while Im not all comfy with this(as a rule), Id say it gives me much more comfort than if Hue was doing the picking......

 

Anyway.....thats all I got......a good leader of youth...positive as fuck!......but average to below average at the "football" stuff.....and over loaded the burden of also being OC......

 

We need better coaching, preparation and strategy, this year, if we are to improve.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I've also been one of the guys that's been saying it's lack of talent, not so much coaching over the last 10 years. I know guys like

Mud, Mik, Tour and myself were against the firing of Pettine. Say what you want about him, but he set the high water mark with a 7-9 record over the last decade.

 

I didn't like Horton as D.C. the first time he was hired, and even less on his next go round. Williams should be an improvement, but let's face it, the previous 2 guys set the bar very low.

 

Chris Tabor...has always had me missing Brad Seely.

 

Hue needs to be HC or OC but shouldn't be both. As an OC he has a tendency to get too cute with the play calling (anyone remember the first and goal at Pittsburgh last year?).

 

Nice post Mud.

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... he set the high water mark with a 7-9 record over the last decade.

 

It'll be a good day when we win more than 7.....

 

I didn't like Horton as D.C. the first time he was hired, and even less on his next go round. Williams should be an improvement, but let's face it, the previous 2 guys set the bar very low.

 

Agree...Williams looks like an upgrade .......and, yes, the bar is very very low......still a ways to go to just get back to where we were a year or 2 ago

 

Chris Tabor...has always had me missing Brad Seely.

 

Eh...Tabor seems ok.....really dont see any obvious negatives and he seems to be respected(and wanted) by every staff that comes in.....

 

Hue needs to be HC or OC but shouldn't be both. As an OC he has a tendency to get too cute with the play calling (anyone remember the first and goal at Pittsburgh last year?).

 

Again, we agree 100%......get an OC and just let Hue lead........Not only do I remember that play, I also remember 2 safeties on consecutive possessions, a fake punt without a punter, a time out before the first play, a potential game winning drive snuffed by handing the ball to someone who has never had the ball handed to him, etc etc etc.....its a long list.....mind numbing really.....

 

Nice post Mud.

 

Nice reply Dawg

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HC's that are OC's..Arians,Payton,Reid,Case,Koetter,Gruden. Can't say they need a QB to worry about? Mike McCarthy fired OC Tom Clements with a QB as his middle man. God knows we need somebody else to fire on this staff. Did Hue ever replace Pep Hamilton's duties? Any who.. Bill O'Brien & Shanny call their own plays. O'Brien is on a banana peel & Shanny's just got a 6 years deal to find a QB. Hue's got 3 years left. Unless Hue finds someone he can trust?(Lewis?) I think Hue's going down with his own ship..with a full plate..A Very Good analyst Mud!

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Pettine tried a 60 yard FG with Devon Hester standing in the end zone to return it. TWICE he did it. He was a dope. And so was his arch enemy Farmer.

 

Hue screwed up the handling of Kessler. And Hue totally screwed up the end of the first half against Cincy. (can't remember so many confusing decisions made in such a short time).

 

I agree, an OC is needed.

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DC: Our new one has a track record and on a 2016 team whose Offense rivaled ours in ineptitude he guided that D to top half finishes in most team stats. The most encouraging? They were 6th in the league in the percentage of drives that yielded points.The least encouraging? Penalties... but they often accompany aggression.

 

OC: Yes... we need one. Great point above on to what extent Pep's "hole" has been filled.

 

ST: Biggest disagreement here... I'm with Hue and Pet. Tabor is a keeper.

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Tabor is a keeper.

 

I harken back to our game against New England in Foxborough when Josh Gordon killed them.

 

The game was in our hands. The Pats scored but they needed the onside kick. Without it, we win.

 

WHAT DID TABOR DO?

I'm in the stands watching....the Pats are lining up...and lining up...and I'm like, Hey, what's going on? The Patriots are lined up! I look to find OUR guys and sure enough they ARE on the field, but just barely. We had two little huddles of guys by each sideline. I said aloud, "He's gonna kick it right up the middle and get it himself."

 

I will NEVER EVER forget Tabor losing us that game! We kicked the ass of the Patriots...IN FOXBOROUGH....and he LET them have the ball back so they could beat us.

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Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks i think(hope) he'll be able to settle down and operate much more effectively as our Offensive Coach. Like Mud i did not see the offensive genius that Hue was touted to be. His playcalling/decision making was ineffective at best and detrimental at worst. I'm very happy to see that player evaluation/staff selection and anything other than offense has been lifted from Hue Jackson as he was very poor in those regards.

Williams has a long Pedigree of success in the NFL so it remains to be seen how he will fare here. I also believe Williams is a good insurance policy if we should flounder offensively and flourish defensively we could very well see Williams take over the Head Coaching job in earnest at the bye and nothing of great value would be lost considering Hue is HC by title only at this point.

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Well....at the very least.....I see a consensus forming on the "Hue shouldnt be OC" front......

 

Guessing that offensive genius tag is fading fast......(twas a figment of peoples imaginations anyhow)

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Well....at the very least.....I see a consensus forming on the "Hue shouldnt be OC" front......

 

Guessing that offensive genius tag is fading fast......(twas a figment of peoples imaginations anyhow)

Despite my refined approach, I really don't think Hue is the guy. He seemed to passive, and his choice of RG3 really was a WTF moment for me. There was simply no upside to taking that turkey. What was Hue thinking?

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I didn't mind Hue bringing in RG3.

Let's face it. We were desperate for a QB. No draft picks involved in bringing him in.

 

What I DID mind was Hue sticking with him after it was evident that he doesn't play 'smart' football and he isn't very accurate.

 

Hue & RG3 lost us that game against the Steelers with that stupid bubble screen pass on the 1 yard line.

(still pisses me off.....it was the Steelers!....we were gonna beat the Steelers!)

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Now that Hue has been relieved of the majority of his HC tasks...

 

He has? News I missed during my early June tavelthon?

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Sure i'll see if i can find some quotes from 2016 and the quotes from 2017 to compare. General Gist without exacts quotes was in 2016 Hue was said to be involved very much on the defense side of the ball as well as scouting and special teams. a recent 2017 quote is him saying he has "no idea" what the defense is doing or WHO is playing there as it is under Williams. Similar to when asked about Player acquisition specifically Jeremy Maclin. He "Hoped" and was "Excited" that the player personnel team were talking with the Maclin and to a lesser extent Colin K., But admitted he knew none of the details of those talks. He's Also admitted to be more Focused on the offense this year.

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Hue had to do the gimmicks on offense to keep guys entertained. I'm sure they thought it was cool. That's why he's a great motivator. We'll see if, with more talent, his offense is more solid.

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Sure i'll see if i can find some quotes from 2016 and the quotes from 2017 to compare. General Gist without exacts quotes was in 2016 Hue was said to be involved very much on the defense side of the ball as well as scouting and special teams. a recent 2017 quote is him saying he has "no idea" what the defense is doing or WHO is playing there as it is under Williams. Similar to when asked about Player acquisition specifically Jeremy Maclin. He "Hoped" and was "Excited" that the player personnel team were talking with the Maclin and to a lesser extent Colin K., But admitted he knew none of the details of those talks. He's Also admitted to be more Focused on the offense this year.

 

Don't go digging on my account... I see where you are coming from now. I read "relieved" in your original post as more of something imposed by the FO than his relinquishing the duties after reinforcements arrived. In that light... just sounds like Hue is better focused at the right levels for the various aspects of his HC job.

 

Seems like the Williams hire has been the most liberating and that's understandable, but most of his "added" involvement in Horton's D had to be around that side's "game plan". Gameday any HC should have his hand on his D's aggression dial, but that's about it.

 

Same for the Offense's dial, but when you double as your own OC...

 

As for scouting and signing players...

  • The only "scouting" an HC should do is of the next opponent. Even that role has been reduced significantly in modern organizations.
  • Player-wise I'd expect no more HC input than his general impression on whether a potential signee is a good fit for the team... and barring any direct working with a FA, or having a "contact" with that player's most recent team(s), most of what your HC "knows" likely comes from his current Pro Personnel Department's reports.

 

Any rookie, or 2nd time, HC, especially a 2nd timer who failed in his first gig, has a natural tendency to overcontrol all the factors that impact his position. That Hue is relaxing his grip on diversions that impact his result less is a positive sign.

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HC - Made some confusing decisions at the end of half and end of games. - Didn't handle the QB position very well, basically stunting the growth of the rookie by removing him from a game that he was playing well in...and sat him for most of the rest of the season in favor of two QB's who had proven to NOT be the future.

 

OC - HC is the OC. As far as the offense goes, What can ya make with crap? Crap pie? Crap soup? Half the OL left in FA, the other half got hurt...leaving Joe Thomas alone. This resulted in our Crappy QB's not getting time to hook up with our Crappy WR's. Also resulting in no room for our half decent RB's to run. - It's awfully hard to judge an OC in a situation like last year.

 

DC - Ray Horton released, Greg Williams brought in. - An experienced DC with some nastiness in him. Articulate and professional...but I'm certain his vocabulary could quickly shrink to four letter words in game situations. Some think that his D will be over-aggressive, will get burned and penalized a lot. We'll see. I think the D will be better under his tutelage. - I also think that Haslam consider's him someone that can be an interim coach should his itchy trigger finger get the best of him and he fires Hue.

 

So, school is out on our HC.

Our OC gets a mulligan.

And our DC has a clean slate.

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