Obama is going after ISIS

[gftChris]

It's a nice dream Chris. I don't mean to insult you for having a good heart.

Unfortunately I believe there are actual bad people in the world and real evil.

 

Not to mention world history which goes back 6,000 years to the creation of the earth.

 

The peaceful trusting forgiving kind understanding are their very natural prey.

WSS

There will always be bad people. Most likely, we will never see a world without them. But should we just accept that bad people exist and will do bad things and there's nothing we can do to stop them? No.

[Dste Ace]

From nbcnews.com:

 

Battling ISIS: Germany, Britain Say They Won't Launch Airstrikes on Syria

BERLIN - The foreign ministers of Germany and Britain said on Thursday they would not be taking part in air strikes in Syria against the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS). German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told a news conference in Berlin that Germany has not been asked to take part in the air strikes and would not be participating. "To quite clear, we have not been asked to do so and neither will we do so," Steinmeier said.

His British counterpart Philip Hammond said Britain "supports entirely the U.S. approach of developing an international coalition" against ISIS, whom he described as "barbaric," and said that in terms of how to help such a coalition "we have ruled nothing out." But, asked by Reuters after his meeting with Steinmeier about President Barrack Obama's proposal for air strikes against ISIS in Syria, Hammond replied: "Let me be clear: Britain will not be taking part in any air strikes in Syria. We have already had that discussion in our parliament last year and we won't be revisiting that position." He said the legal environment and "military permissiveness" in Syria and Iraq were very different.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've seen this act already

In the words of the immortal Joe Schultz, "Aw, shitfuck."

[Westside Steve]

There will always be bad people. Most likely, we will never see a world without them. But should we just accept that bad people exist and will do bad things and there's nothing we can do to stop them? No.

Stop them?

Just as a historical perspective you, sir, are the bad people. I with my Irish ancestors probably being Viking and Norman are they bad people. My Prussian ancestors are probably be bad people to someone. Hitler and the Nazis, Attila the Hun, Alexander the Great, Cesar,the Apaches, the Cherokee,Tojo and the Imperial forces, Stalin pol pot, George Washington and King George, you name it.

 

 

 

They we're all bad guys to the people they defeated conquered and over ran.

WSS

[gftChris]

Stop them?

Just as a historical perspective you, sir, are the bad people. I with my Irish ancestors probably being Viking and Norman are they bad people. My Prussian ancestors are probably be bad people to someone. Hitler and the Nazis, Attila the Hun, Alexander the Great, Cesar,the Apaches, the Cherokee,Tojo and the Imperial forces, Stalin pol pot, George Washington and King George, you name it.

 

 

 

They we're all bad guys to the people the day defeated conquered and over ran.

WSS

Some of those things were down to individual bad guys, while some were down to differences of opinion blown out of proportion, and others down to pure expansionism.

 

Bad guys - there'll always be people who are just evil at heart. They, regrettably, have to be eliminated, more often than not. Education of the masses would lead to fewer of them, or at the very least fewer people willing to follow, fewer people so easily swayed to the dark side.

 

Differences of opinion - 250 years ago, the brits who decided to colonise america subsequently decided they didn't want to be part of the empire any more. there was a war because the king didn't like it. Now, we have Scotland deciding they don't want to be part of the empire any more and they're having a referendum, the results of which will be respected by the UK and UN. Of course, that's not always necessarily the case, as we see in Crimea - seemingly the majority wants to be part of Russia, but now there's a war because Kiev doesn't like it. It'll take time, but eventually you'd hope these situations can be resolved peacefully. Of course, the more naive outlook would be that people shouldn't feel the need to identify with a nation because nations are largely pointless constructs borne out of man's desire to rule over others

 

Expansionism - outside of Africa and a few other tribal-style leaders, and that guy in Russia, countries seem to be largely set. There's basically no 'we would be a better country if we had that piece of land' in the developed world.

[The Cysko Kid]

That senator palpatine was a seriously evil douche.

[gftChris]

That senator palpatine was a seriously evil douche.

Yep, and he needed to be eliminated. On a related note, I can't help but think how much bill belichick looks like him with his hoody up.

 

http://profootballmock.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Bill-Belichick-Hoodie.jpg

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/64/227818368_243e7f6d85.jpg

[calfoxwc]

See? Bush inspired other major friends to follow us.

 

Obamao convinces other major friends to forget it.

 

So, there ya go.

[Dste Ace]

Or maybe the other major friends are saying "No thanks, you guys sucked us into this shithole

once already, we'll sit this one out."

[Westside Steve]

I pretty much agree on your reasons for the barbarism we've discussed before but even in those old time examples of expansionism it's the fact that in time of war human beings turn feral quickly. Also I'd say poverty even more than education is the key. When you got nothing you got nothing to lose.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Yet they have left Ukraine according to Ukrainian officials, and there is a ceasefire. Sad

****************************************************

ONLY after they went ahead and invaded, and beat back the

Ukraine army and saved the rebels from defeat.

And, they still have a thousand troops IN E. Ukraine, and 20,000

on the border again, ready to invade again if the rebels get beaten

back again.

And the ceasefire is being violated.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/11/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?eref=edition

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Bottom line is bombing isn't going to accomplish anything. And if you think an 'Arab coalition' is going to work, it isn't.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

No it never has happened. Maybe it never will, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be the aim.

 

The days of great generals becoming president ended when the world became more than a battle ground. You need so much more than just military prowess to run a major country these days.

Like what? Big corporations that manipulate the elected officials?

[Westside Steve]

Like what? Big corporations that manipulate the elected officials?

Actually yes. That would be the exact best way to keep any society afloat.

WSS

[thenew23]

You can hire cabinet members who are specialists on economics, health care, etc... It's hard to find somebody with great LEADERSHIP skills. You can't teach that, but a military guy has those skills. Strong, committed, decisive... those are qualities a President should have.

[cuwoohio]

Do you know who would have never let ISIS, or anyone like them into Iraq? Sadaam Hussein. When that vacuum was created, the region wass doomed for chaos. Do you think ISIS would ever dare to attack Israel.....Why? They'd be torn to bits. Get What's left of Assad's Syria, and Iran involved. The Arabs themselves would and should be abe to wipe those cowards off the face of the Earth. An iron fist is required in that region by the people of that region.We need to back off, and just help behing the scenes before we do even more damage.

[calfoxwc]

Not true - saddam was "sunni muslim"...and so is isis.

Their horrifying ruthlessness and violence is quite the same.

 

It's tons of blood on Obamao's hands now. We'd better hope we

don't lose any pilots over there now.

 

Maliki alienated the sunnis, and their resentment, and organization grew.

But the bitter hatred of the two muslim sects would never go away completely.

 

Because of the vacuum created by Obamao pulliing out of Iraq too early,

under no precausions, no contingency planning, isis assembled various rebel factions,

and now it's a dangerous turn of events. But other countries are ridiculing obamao's

paper tiger, ignorant ass words. He's lost the vast majority of Americans, and lost

much of the traditional allies' trust and confidence. His leadership has completely hit

the skids.

Just listen to the words and watch the actions of "new russia", china, and the factions

who want to destroy Israel and anyone who isn't going to convert to their brand of "Islam"

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Do you know who would have never let ISIS, or anyone like them into Iraq? Sadaam Hussein. When that vacuum was created, the region wass doomed for chaos. Do you think ISIS would ever dare to attack Israel.....Why? They'd be torn to bits. Get What's left of Assad's Syria, and Iran involved. The Arabs themselves would and should be abe to wipe those cowards off the face of the Earth. An iron fist is required in that region by the people of that region.We need to back off, and just help behing the scenes before we do even more damage.

Well, Assad is a dictator and it isn't working to well for him right now.

[htownbrown]

Actually yes. That would be the exact best way to keep any society afloat.

WSS

I'm curious why you think this? I'm convinced this would lead to a certain demise. Considering the average wages of workers overseas, abundant resources in unstable parts of the world, no environmental morality, etc., I couldn't think of a worse idea. Not that it isn't happening already. Corporations are designed to squash the little guys, how is that in the best interest of the little guy?

[Westside Steve]

I'm curious why you think this? I'm convinced this would lead to a certain demise. Considering the average wages of workers overseas, abundant resources in unstable parts of the world, no environmental morality, etc., I couldn't think of a worse idea. Not that it isn't happening already. Corporations are designed to squash the little guys, how is that in the best interest of the little guy?

Squash the little guy?

I'm not sure who you believe the little guy is.

And in what way and to what benefit would a corporation want to squash him?

Corporations are dedicated to providing goods and services at a profit. If the goods and services are not, well, good nor serviceable then they will not make a profit. To achieve that goal corporations logically need good and qualified employees.

That means that good employees are worth more than shitty ones.

 

I have no idea this thread got hijacked but what do you think is a better method H town?

 

WSS

[htownbrown]

Steve-Well ultimately the corporate utopia would be monopolization.........which doesn't sound like an endorsement to freedom, equality, opportunity, etc. I don't think people like Cal and the like would benefit from the idea of someone like Monsanto running the Ag department, even though they kind of already do. And I defer to your expertise here, but it seems to me that thousands of artists in the music industry (and fans) have benefited from the exposure websites like youtube have given them that corporations like Sony, Tower, etc. didn't deem as marketable. I'm not suggesting we don't need corporations, but rather their interests do not represent the 'common man' which is the majority. Corporations never have really cared as much about quality as they do marketability (Taco Bell, Walmart, GM, etc.). I get it that they need consumers to make a profit, but that in no way equates to social responsibility. I don't think because Tyson can pump out some chicken, that they are going about it the right way, like allowing phosphates to seep in the local water supply, in turn causing children to be born with heart defects. If profits were the only factor in sustainability, I would agree with you. Personally, I think we would be fine if we could control the lobbyist in Washington and make our economy less dependent on foreign goods. Without manufacturing and blue collar jobs in this country, the middle class will drift into poverty. And corporations have deemed that unprofitable. There has to be some loyalty at the top to the people at the bottom. Instead, like a parasite, they will just outsource their production and bleed the American consumability dry, pretty much leaving us with our dick in our hand for the sake of profit. Thats no way to run a railroad my friend.

[Westside Steve]

well of course H town just as you wouldn't suggest the elimination of corporations I wouldn't suggest eliminations of all oversight. On the other hand I think our oversight system is as profit driven as the most miserly corporation you could imagine.

Absolutely nothing but fines most of which go into the pockets of either politicians or lawyers.

But you mention the common man? Are you talking about the guy who can get some tasty psuedo Mexican food on his way home from a gig at 3:00 in the morning?

are we feeling sorry for the hardware store who is selling a widget for 25 bucks that the common man can pick up at Walmart for 5?

Are we talking about the guitar player who 40 years ago would have had to pay retail price for whatever color Fender Stratocaster the shop had in stock? Instead of paying 70% and choosing from a hundred styles and colors?

And don't kid yourself, I bet the vast majority of all these little independent hit records you here are distributed by one of the big boys. Sure there are local phenomenons making a nice little living in their little piece of turf but you want to talk national hits? You're talking corporations. And the corporations have thousands a little guys making a living. They are just not all superstars.

and nobody's stopping you from going to the Mexican restaurant down the street or in the city and forking over 15 bucks for your dinner. Feel free pal. But Taco Bell shit tasty and would probably seem like a lot nicer dinner if somebody put it on stoneware with a bowl of chips than a paper bag in a Subaru.

 

but at least the corporations have to make a profit. All the politicians need to do is get reelected. And let's not pretend they are out for anyone's good anymore than corporation X.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Meanwhile, ISIL learning to use artillery against infidels.....

[FairHooker11]

and not going so well.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cuwoohio]

Not true - saddam was "sunni muslim"...and so is isis.

Their horrifying ruthlessness and violence is quite the same.

 

It's tons of blood on Obamao's hands now. We'd better hope we

don't lose any pilots over there now.

 

Maliki alienated the sunnis, and their resentment, and organization grew.

But the bitter hatred of the two muslim sects would never go away completely.

 

Because of the vacuum created by Obamao pulliing out of Iraq too early,

under no precausions, no contingency planning, isis assembled various rebel factions,

and now it's a dangerous turn of events. But other countries are ridiculing obamao's

paper tiger, ignorant ass words. He's lost the vast majority of Americans, and lost

much of the traditional allies' trust and confidence. His leadership has completely hit

the skids.

Just listen to the words and watch the actions of "new russia", china, and the factions

who want to destroy Israel and anyone who isn't going to convert to their brand of "Islam"

 

How the hell can you say Obama created anything. That's totally ignorant. it was the group of idiots before him that's responsible for this mess. you can blame him for Obamacare and being weak on many other foreign policy issues, but not Iraq, (and Sadaam was for Sadamm, not anyone, or anything else. )

[htownbrown]

Well I agree the people atop the political world of washington are crooks, but then again without corporate sponsorship they wouldn't be where they are. On the rest, I'll just agree to disagree and end this hijacking.

 

Im not going to pretend I own nothing made in China and its all crap. I just can't help but wonder when I buy this stuff......how many entitlement programs I need to pay into to compensate for the lack of middle class jobs.

[calfoxwc]

How the hell can you say Obama created anything. That's totally ignorant. cuwoohio

****************************************************

No, your objection is totally ignorant. I can show you why what I said

is correct, imho, as easy as 1,2, 3:

********************************************

http://www.standard-democrat.com/story/2117291.html

http://www.onenewsnow.com/national-security/2014/09/08/attorney-says-obamas-worldview-at-root-of-isis-crisis#.VBpjJPldUYQ

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2014/06/19/obama-created-iraq-crisis/11099271/

[calfoxwc]

Here's a fourth point about this stupidass unAmerican failure in our WH

***********************

 

http://staugustine.com/opinions/2014-09-17/column-unbeievable-recrod-failure

[cuwoohio]

 

How the hell can you say Obama created anything. That's totally ignorant. cuwoohio

****************************************************

No, your objection is totally ignorant. I can show you why what I said

is correct, imho, as easy as 1,2, 3:

********************************************

http://www.standard-democrat.com/story/2117291.html

http://www.onenewsnow.com/national-security/2014/09/08/attorney-says-obamas-worldview-at-root-of-isis-crisis#.VBpjJPldUYQ

http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2014/06/19/obama-created-iraq-crisis/11099271/

 

 

These are all opinions by people I've never heard of . I said Obama has not been stellar is several areas, but he did not create the mess in Iraq. That's one place. Iraq. Not Russia or anywhere else. Iraq.

[htownbrown]

 

These are all opinions by people I've never heard of . I said Obama has not been stellar is several areas, but he did not create the mess in Iraq. That's one place. Iraq. Not Russia or anywhere else. Iraq.

He certainly didn't create the initial mess, but he certainly backed a terrible leader that pissed a lot of folks off and called a clan of radical extremists ,basically, a bunch of pussies. Imho, if he even remotely considers occupying again he's probably more stupid than Bush and his people.