hoorta Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I was just trying to add a little comic relief. QBs have always polarized and escalated intensities before they ended up on the t-shirt. I don't know how accurate this is but I have a feeling our FO was going to try to move up to #5 with the same franchise (TN) we developed a 1st round trade relationship with last year. The Kyle Shanahan who would love to stick it up Jimmy Haslam's dumpster while gaining Chicago's 2017 and 2018 3rd round picks in addition to their 2017 4th round pick probably had enough influence on John Lynch to the extent there was no way he could say no to Kyle & Chicago's offer. This being the case, you have 2 choices: 1) never let it go or 2) realize we added 3 first round picks before we drafted Kizer to develop at QB here. Ironically, it was the DeShaun Watson who you've never spoken very highly of that we passed on at #12. In doing so, we ended up with 3 first round picks that weren't considered reaches. ^^^ Flugs, I've let it go. Regarding the #5, I was counting on it. We couldn't realistically match Chicago's offer. Not only did the Browns get shafted, the Titans had to take their WR @ #5 that they were planning on @ #12. As long as people realize we took another flyer on a project. Haha- now I told ya I thought Watson was a stiff. I just happen to think Kizer is an even bigger stiff. Just my opinion, and I'll happily eat dirt if I'm wrong. So I'm OK with the extra first round pick- now. I wasn't initially. Get me the best qb out of that "supposed" superior 2018 QB class, and send that 4th best 2017 guy back to Toledo. I only had minor issues with the first round- thought we should have gotten a little more moving down to #25, and there were a lot guys I wanted between #12 and #25 I really liked. (I know you had the hots for OJ Howard, Njoku is a nice consolation prize though) But Kizer? Wow, never liked him- and even less after the combine and the interview process. I'll dig up (if you're interested) the YouTube of his 20 minutes at Gruden's QB camp. He comes off as an intelligent robot with no personality. XYZ down and distance, defensive formation, what's the call? Computer, working, working- 0.2 seconds hit Z Wr on a 15 yard out. I don't know if that will preclude him from being a great NFL qb. (second round- that's where Carr, Esiason and Brees got drafted) so his bar is a tad higher than Kessler's. But the light went on how the Harvard Geek Squad took a liking to him. If he has no people skills off camera- he WILL fail, regardless of his skill set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Styles Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Pretty sure Dalton is on Hue's "whisper" list... Flacco as well... Dalton had already been to a Pro Bowl under QB coach now OC Zampese and then OC now Skins head coach Gruden.Hue was still in Oakland whispering an already groomed Carson Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Gil Brandt? Well then. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000341084/article/gil-brandts-top-50-prospects-for-the-2014-nfl-draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 ^^^ Flugs, I've let it go. Regarding the #5, I was counting on it. We couldn't realistically match Chicago's offer. Not only did the Browns get shafted, the Titans had to take their WR @ #5 that they were planning on @ #12. As long as people realize we took another flyer on a project. Haha- now I told ya I thought Watson was a stiff. I just happen to think Kizer is an even bigger stiff. Just my opinion, and I'll happily eat dirt if I'm wrong. So I'm OK with the extra first round pick- now. I wasn't initially. Get me the best qb out of that "supposed" superior 2018 QB class, and send that 4th best 2017 guy back to Toledo. I only had minor issues with the first round- thought we should have gotten a little more moving down to #25, and there were a lot guys I wanted between #12 and #25 I really liked. (I know you had the hots for OJ Howard, Njoku is a nice consolation prize though) But Kizer? Wow, never liked him- and even less after the combine and the interview process. I'll dig up (if you're interested) the YouTube of his 20 minutes at Gruden's QB camp. He comes off as an intelligent robot with no personality. XYZ down and distance, defensive formation, what's the call? Computer, working, working- 0.2 seconds hit Z Wr on a 15 yard out. I don't know if that will preclude him from being a great NFL qb. (second round- that's where Carr, Esiason and Brees got drafted) so his bar is a tad higher than Kessler's. But the light went on how the Harvard Geek Squad took a liking to him. If he has no people skills off camera- he WILL fail, regardless of his skill set. Larry, Hear me out. You gotta admit your buddy in Carolina who's opinion you told me you highly regard - got you all excited about the Cleveland hometown guy Trubisky. Kizer is from Toledo, which means he's more of a hometown kid to Detroilet than Cleveland. Meaning? You'll never stop giving Mitch L every excuse on the planet while you've even shredded Watson's performance against Bama. If you watched that entire second half that gased one of the best front 7s in college football history (1 week after beating OSU by 31 points), the last thing anyone dwelled on was 1 or 2 pick plays - even Jonathan Allen who called him the best player he faced. BTW, whoever told me Clemson's defense carried Watson - might want to let me know how many of their defenders were drafted before day 3. Anyway, this QB class was all about realistic expectations mostly set by unbiased draft analysts (not us) that watch a lot more film on these guys than we as fans have access to. When the majority of them are calling the entire draft class from top to bottom a bunch of projects - are we drafting rear view mirror and concluding all there is to Kizer is body by Brian Kelly? Or, are we understanding Kizer was the 4th draft pick our FO brought here to develop? I posted Joe Montana's college career of 25 TDs to 25 INTs with a 52% completion and very pedestrian yardage from a prehistoric offense that didn't match Joe's greatest attributes/skills. That offense asked one of the best NFL passers of all time to win like Tim Tebow instead of Tom Brady because the stubborn HC there at the time refused to tailor his offense to anyone 1 QB (even Joe). If memory serves me right, he was even reluctant to start Montana at first because of all this. Lucky for Joe it was Bill Walsh instead of a Rick Kotite that saw Montana as an appropriate fit for his/Paul Brown's passing game. If Joe Montana was an 82nd pick overall - he was alot more gotta have in hindsight 20/20 than he was on draft day. I see Kizer coming out of a very similar situation and Brian Kelly is an absolute prick that doesn't hesitate to throw his players and others under the bus to the media. Did any of his QBs at ND improve? Why use Joe Montana here? Because the drastic difference in his NFL passing efficiency, completion %, TDs to INT ratio, and everything across the board dwarfed his college numbers. Why? The right coach, right system, right surrounding talent was an ideal fit to his skill set. As I said, Kizer was my last choice of QB preference but a lot of that was aimed at him being considered for either of our first 2 draft choices. He ended up as our 4th draft choice. Like any other draft choice that hasn't put the pads on yet here, I'll wait and see. I don't expect him to be our week 1 starter. I'd like to see what a more experienced Kessler that worked his tail off in the off season with a QB guru looks like behind an improved pass protection with a TE that can run faster than park and seeing a target DeValve line up in the slot. I'm not getting the impression the city of Chicago is nearly as excited about Trubisky as they are concerned about what they gave up to take the least of all evils at QB in this class in their perception. This is no hometown warm and fuzzy there willing to excuse every imperfection up against what they gave up to get him so stay tuned... The frustration there? It's been said this isn't the year to do such a thing. I'd like to see Mitch do well but I'd rather see the guy we drafted do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 The QB pick that lucked out the most was Mahomes who is not expected to be the man for at least 2-3 years while he develops. The Browns lucked out by the jump ahead for trubs because we needed defenders now more than we needed a project. And we got the extra ammo for next year's better class of QB's. The Browns FO admits they studied who wins SBs and those that build great defenses first are the ones who get there and/or win them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 The QB pick that lucked out the most was Mahomes who is not expected to be the man for at least 2-3 years while he develops. The Browns lucked out by the jump ahead for trubs because we needed defenders now more than we needed a project. And we got the extra ammo for next year's better class of QB's. The Browns FO admits they studied who wins SBs and those that build great defenses first are the ones who get there and/or win them. I agree with this. The QB Pittsburgh landed who I used to like (Josh Dobbs) had 27 TDs to 12 INTs in comparison to Kizer's 26 TDs to 9 INTs everyone seems way more down on. It looks like UT's RB Alvin Kamara (rd 3) and WR Josh Malone (rd 4). And keep in mind, former top recruit Jalen Hurd started the first 7 games over Kamara before he got frustrated with the offense and quit the the team/left the school. Did any of Kizer's offensive tools even get drafted this year? There's a lot of variables we don't even know about so we have to get back to we're not drafting what's in the rear view mirror - we're drafting one of the projects we hope we can have the right system match for his skill set. Meanwhile, we're also hoping the last QB we drafted comes back better from the rookie experience and offseason work he completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Meanwhile, we're also hoping the last QB we drafted comes back better from the rookie experience and offseason work he completed. With a vastly improved defense that I expect to get from Williams and a QB with a far better OL combined with his off season improvement plan, I can actually see us with 5 or more wins this coming year. If Kizer is really the guy, the staff will know it before year's end. If not then we have what we need to get one better (and I do think the top 2 are better at this point). Edit: The hope is that the franchise QB is already on the team now either in Kessler or Kizer and that next year's draft can be used to really build something very special. Christian Kirk anyone? Never too early to look: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 With a vastly improved defense that I expect to get from Williams and a QB with a far better OL combined with his off season improvement plan, I can actually see us with 5 or more wins this coming year. If Kizer is really the guy, the staff will know it before year's end. If not then we have what we need to get one better (and I do think the top 2 are better at this point). If Hue Jackson put his ass on the line to make the statement you can bet he's going to get a longer rope. If it's true the fo didn't want this guy and Jackson went to the wall for him he's going to go out his way to protect him. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 With a vastly improved defense that I expect to get from Williams and a QB with a far better OL combined with his off season improvement plan, I can actually see us with 5 or more wins this coming year. If Kizer is really the guy, the staff will know it before year's end. If not then we have what we need to get one better (and I do think the top 2 are better at this point). Edit: The hope is that the franchise QB is already on the team now either in Kessler or Kizer and that next year's draft can be used to really build something very special. Christian Kirk anyone? Vastly?.....not seeing that.....but do expect both the DL and OL to be much better....which will domino to create improvement elsewhere.... DB's and LB's will benefit from the DL......RB's, QB's and WR's will benefit from The OL... Now....if Kessler gets more opps and actually starts looking down field....5 wins doesnt seem outrageous..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I was just trying to add a little comic relief. Good luck with that... "That" was short-lived... but appreciate the effort... The QB pick that lucked out the most was Mahomes who is not expected to be the man for at least 2-3 years while he develops. And few are better positioned to wait than KC. It's a perfect match for a project with a similar skill set to Smith. And if by 2019 it's clear Mahomes is not the replacement, there's still time to reload. Edit: The hope is that the franchise QB is already on the team now either in Kessler or Kizer and that next year's draft can be used to really build something very special. Christian Kirk anyone? Lemme guess without looking.... Kirk's an Aggie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Lemme guess without looking.... Kirk's an Aggie... Oh...is he by any chance a captain...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 Lemme guess without looking.... Kirk's an Aggie... And #3 overall in Walterfootball's 2018 mock draft. First WR/return man on the board. And is far cleaner that Speedy Noil who screwed up so bad he hasn't even signed yet as a UFA despite a knockout combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 lol... but with Seals-Jones still available next year will we be interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I would die laughing if brock ended up being the man I fully expect him to be the Browns starter come the first game of the season. Real game, not preseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 lol... but with Seals-Jones still available next year will we be interested? He signed with the Cardinals UDFA. As did our future safety, QB Trevor Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBC mike Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I was high on Brock when he came out of college Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 30, 2017 Report Share Posted April 30, 2017 I was high on Brock when he came out of college Man...I was high on all kinds of stuff coming out of college..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Man...I was high on all kinds of stuff coming out of college..... Dude... you beat me to it.... man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Larry, Hear me out. You gotta admit your buddy in Carolina who's opinion you told me you highly regard - got you all excited about the Cleveland hometown guy Trubisky. Kizer is from Toledo, which means he's more of a hometown kid to Detroilet than Cleveland. Meaning? You'll never stop giving Mitch L every excuse on the planet while you've even shredded Watson's performance against Bama. If you watched that entire second half that gased one of the best front 7s in college football history (1 week after beating OSU by 31 points), the last thing anyone dwelled on was 1 or 2 pick plays - even Jonathan Allen who called him the best player he faced. BTW, whoever told me Clemson's defense carried Watson - might want to let me know how many of their defenders were drafted before day 3. This is no hometown warm and fuzzy there willing to excuse every imperfection up against what they gave up to get him so stay tuned... The frustration there? It's been said this isn't the year to do such a thing. I'd like to see Mitch do well but I'd rather see the guy we drafted do better. Um, regarding Mitch- nope, doesn't play for the Browns, not making excuses for him. It will be interesting to see who has the better pro career, Trubisky or Kizer. With the trade down, the Browns obviously didn't want Watson. Yup, I don't give a rat what Watson did against Alabama. Went 1-1. To me, that's a poor indicator as to how he's going to play in the pros. Still think he has an extremely high potential of busting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Um, regarding Mitch- nope, doesn't play for the Browns, not making excuses for him. It will be interesting to see who has the better pro career, Trubisky or Kizer. Chicago is looking for their first 2 fans happy about their trade up for Mitch. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you and Ghoolie to become those 2 fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Um, regarding Mitch- nope, doesn't play for the Browns, not making excuses for him. It will be interesting to see who has the better pro career, Trubisky or Kizer. With the trade down, the Browns obviously didn't want Watson. Yup, I don't give a rat what Watson did against Alabama. Went 1-1. To me, that's a poor indicator as to how he's going to play in the pros. Still think he has an extremely high potential of busting. Nate Burleson on Good Morning Football NFL Net said this morning that he felt Kizer will be the long term best QB from this class and before the season is out he will be starting. he said with what the browns have done and are doing they will end up 7-9 and a team the fans will get behind again and love. He said the X factor that can really bring out Kizer is Josh Gordon if he finally gets it right. He was also saying not to just look at Garrett and Peppers who are both Williams' kind of players for his D, but also the last two drafted in the 7th, both All-Americans. He was saying that top to bottom the Browns were the real winners in this draft. The others agreed with him. They also bragged on the Browns for their 9 players for Wentz trade with 2 more to go next year. "They really know how to use their draft capital. I'm finally coming around on this FO and give them a Mulligan for their shortened time to prep for last year's draft. And now that I understand the Wentz deal, it all makes sense to build that D and drop in a QB. Hopefully they are right about Kizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Chicago is looking for their first 2 fans happy about their trade up for Mitch. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you and Ghoolie to become those 2 fans... Can we clarify which will be wearing The "Putz" Jersey or The "Nag" Jersey? Preseason 9-31-17 at Chicago..Xmas Eve 12-24-17 at Chicago..Ting! Ting! Get your Tickets Now.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Nate Burleson on Good Morning Football NFL Net said this morning that he felt Kizer will be the long term best QB from this class and before the season is out he will be starting. I'm finally coming around on this FO and give them a Mulligan for their shortened time to prep for last year's draft. And now that I understand the Wentz deal, it all makes sense to build that D and drop in a QB. Hopefully they are right about Kizer. But can we trust an ex-Browns' assessment of the Browns? And there it is... an early-ish convert jumping on our FO train. Pretty sure there's still room... in 2nd class... ALL ABOARD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 But can we trust an ex-Browns' assessment of the Browns? And there it is... an early-ish convert jumping on our FO train. Pretty sure there's still room... in 2nd class... ALL ABOARD! And if DeValve turns out to be the player they think he would be, I will gladly sit in the caboose and eat dog chow while admitting I was wrong about this FO. Especially if either Kessler or Kizer turn out to be "The One". https://youtu.be/zYwdzYC3uUc?t=23s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Man...I was high on all kinds of stuff coming out of college..... College? I was thinking that you were still there this past weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Um, regarding Mitch- nope, doesn't play for the Browns, not making excuses for him. It will be interesting to see who has the better pro career, Trubisky or Kizer. With the trade down, the Browns obviously didn't want Watson. Yup, I don't give a rat what Watson did against Alabama. Went 1-1. To me, that's a poor indicator as to how he's going to play in the pros. Still think he has an extremely high potential of busting. Josh Heupel won a national championship at QB. Craig Krenzel did too. Ken Dorsey. Matt Mauck. Chris Leak. Tim Tebow. Greg McElroy. And beware of hyping up USC QBs. Can you say Matt Leinert. (Is Sam Darnold the next Matt Leinert?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Josh Heupel won a national championship at QB. Craig Krenzel did too. Ken Dorsey. Matt Mauck. Chris Leak. Tim Tebow. Greg McElroy. A Thank God Kizer doesn't have that stigma. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Thank God Kizer doesn't have that stigma. WSS And thank God they did not trade for AJ McCarron...also a national title QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 And thank God they did not trade for AJ McCarron...also a national title QB. I guess it depends what they traded for him. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Chicago is looking for their first 2 fans happy about their trade up for Mitch. Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you and Ghoolie to become those 2 fans... Ha, you would have been cheering for Mitch too. if the Bears hadn't taken him @ #2, we would have @ #5. If Cleveland had drafted him, the fans attitude would have been entirely different. Not so bold prediction: Kizer won't get 1\2 the Cleveland love Trubisky would have. Plenty of ND hatas out there. If you don't think there's a small legion of fans out there that will boo him after his second interception in a game- you'd be wrong. He's already rubbed a bunch of fans the wrong way with his statements after getting drafted. Humble, he's not. They say you only have one chance to make a good first impression. And to this fan- he failed. Unlikable and unlovable. The only way he's going to earn my love is win some frickin' football games. And it's NOT because we didn't draft Mitch. Same reason a bunch of us had a WTF moment when we drafted Kessler last year. I've changed my mind (a little) since Friday night. I suppose he's a good value pick with upside. What I like best is several of the early 2018 mock drafts have us taking Darnold, regardless that we drafted Kizer. If Sam's the stud everyone thinks he is, we could wind up in a similar situation as the Patriots with Garropolo. Of course if we go 7-9 like the some of the Sunshine pumpers have us at, we're probably not going to be in the discussion of moving up to #1 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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