marcus Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 There was talk the other day on the Really Big Show about the possibility of trading up to draft Marcus Mariotta. I'm interested in what you guys have to say about it. How would you feel about a trade up? Would good moves in Free Agency change your mind? What or who would you part with to get him? Just throwing this out there because it made for an interesting conversation the other day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiott Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Since they said they won't spend much in FA, I don't think they'll give up picks. But hey, with this guys, nothing is out of the equation. To be honest i don't really mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 There was talk the other day on the Really Big Show about the possibility of trading up to draft Marcus Mariotta. I'm interested in what you guys have to say about it. How would you feel about a trade up? Would good moves in Free Agency change your mind? What or who would you part with to get him? Just throwing this out there because it made for an interesting conversation the other day. Guys flapping their gums about a very unlikely scenario. Farmer is hopefully smart enough he's not going to give up the three first round picks it would take to get MM. The guy is NOT in the Andrew Luck category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Guys flapping their gums about a very unlikely scenario. Farmer is hopefully smart enough he's not going to give up the three first round picks it would take to get MM. The guy is NOT in the Andrew Luck category. Why do you think it's unlikely? Outside of the logical "it costs too much to get him", there are many signs that point toward them possibly taking a shot. EDIT: Here's a decent article (unfortunately, it's an MKC production) http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/02/oregons_marcus_mariota_nfl_com.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I still don't think the Browns are ready to give up on Manziel just yet. Has an NFL front office ever admitted that they whiffed on a 1st round QB prospect after a game and a half? That being said, if a team was going to trade up to grab a mobile, Heisman winning QB in two consecutive years it would probably be the Browns. If they do draft a QB this year I hope they stay put and grab a guy like Hundley in the 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 It shouldn't have made for an interesting conversation The picks+players it would take to move up to get him would be far, far too prohibitive. DL and OL are far, far more of a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 These guys need to come up with a topic to discuss everyday, a lot like us. I don't know that anybody honestly believes Marcus Mariota is a once in a lifetime quarterback. And he'd have to be if you trade 3 number ones. I wouldn't be surprised to see him drop until way into the first round. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I think it would be better to trade a bunch of picks but keep our two first this year to get inside the top 10 and pick up either Cooper or White. Then take a monster OL. Of course we would have to spend big on Suh to shore up the D. Resign Sheard, Rubin, Skrine, Gibson and Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 BLARFKKKK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 It shouldn't have made for an interesting conversation The picks+players it would take to move up to get him would be far, far too prohibitive. DL and OL are far, far more of a need. Are they? They are needs for sure, but "far,far" greater than that of QB? What's the most important piece to have to be a playoff team? My personal stance is that we need a QB more than we need a DT, however I'm not sure how I feel about Mariota or Winston being that guy. I'd personally love for one of them to be the guy, but that's neither here nor there. There's been a few arguments rolling around about who to take, when to take them, and what's more important, so I just compiled something during my lunch break to show both sides. (Keep in mind, the following isn't an argument about draft position, it's purely about what is more of a need for the Cleveland Browns in today's NFL. ) Argument #1: You don't need to invest heavily in a defensive line for it to be good. The top 5 defensive lines last season (against the run) were Detroit, Denver, St. Louis, Buffalo, and Seattle. Detroit has three first round picks(#2, #5, #13 )and a second rounder (#54) along their defensive line. (ADP= 18.5) Denver has two first round picks (#11, #28), a second round pick (#36) and a third round pick (#72) on their defensive line. (ADP = 46.5) St. Louis has four first round picks (#2, #13, #13, #14) along their defensive line. (ADP 10.75) Buffalo had three first round picks (#1, #3, #31) and a fifth round pick (#134) on their defensive line (ADP= 42.25) Seattle had one first round pick (#9), one third round pick (#72) and two undrafted players on their defensive line. (ADP=153.75) It's clear that, in order to have an elite defensive line, it helps to invest heavily in it...as evidenced by the fact that most of the top 5 have multiple, if not all, of their positions filled by first round talent. Seattle, the only team in the top 5 to make it to their conference championship (and, by extension, the Super Bowl), has only one first round player along their defensive front. So, while investing heavily in your defensive line is clearly a good way to make it "elite", it's not the only way. The Browns clearly don't have many highly drafted players across their defensive line. Assuming Rubin returns, which isn't going to happen, that still only leaves Cleveland with one first-round player, two sixth-round players, and one undrafted player across a four-man front. That's why, as most analysts have been saying, Cleveland's biggest hole is likely DT. Average top-5 defensive line ADP: 54.35 What the Cleveland Browns currently have: 168 Differential= 113.65 Conclusion: Busted. The top defensive lines are mostly composed of solid first and second round talent. Argument #2: You don't need an elite defensive line to win a Super Bowl The defensive line rankings of all playoff teams (against run, then pass, then averaged): Patriots (18th, 19th, 19th) Broncos (2nd, 23rd, 12th) Steelers (20th, 20th, 20th) Colts (22nd, 9th, 16th) Bengals (27th, 31st, 29th) Ravens (7th, 5th , 6th) Seahawks (5th, 14th, 10th) Packers (26th, 13th, 20th) Cowboys (17th, 29th, 18th) Panthers (10th, 7th, 9th) Cardinals (6th, 28th, 17th) Lions (1st, 18th, 10th) Average (run, pass): 13th, 23rd Overall average: 18th *bolded teams are teams that made it to their respective conference championships. It doesn't seem like a truly dominant defensive line is something that any of the top playoff teams had last season. Playoff teams averaged together had the 13th ranked defensive line in rushing and 23rd in passing. Overall, playoff teams had the 18th ranked defensive lines. Further, the top defensive lines didn't necessarily result in top playoff performances. For example, Detroit and Denver, who finished #1 and #2 in defensive line production last year, respectively, of course did not have favorably playoff performances. Cleveland's defensive line performance last year was less-than-stellar, to say the least. Some can be attributed to injuries, sure. However, there is an argument to be had that there simply isn't enough talent. Rubin is likely gone and that leaves a 350 pound hole to be filled (and I'm not talking about Ghoolie's mom). Average playoff team defensive line performance (run, pass, overall): (13th, 23rd, 18th) Cleveland Browns 2014 performance: (29th, 25th, 27th) Conclusion: Based off of last season, true. Basically none of the "premier" (read: full of first round picks + top performing) defensive lines made it very far in the playoffs, with Detroit losing immediately and Denver losing in the divisional round. St. Louis, obviously, didn't even make to the playoffs. Seattle, the 5th ranked defensive line, of course made it to the Super Bowl. Argument #3: Good teams have good quarterbacks. The QB rankings of all playoff teams: Patriots (10th) Broncos (4th) Steelers (T-1st) Colts (3rd) Bengals (16th) Ravens (12th) Seahawks (15th) Packers (7th) Cowboys (14th) Panthers (21st) Cardinals (31st) Lions (9th) Average: 11th Nearly all of the playoff teams had solid to exceptional play from their quarterbacks, with the exception of Arizona. Six of the 12 playoff teams (50%) had top-10 QB play. Nine of the 12 teams (75%) had QB play better than league average. Average playoff QB rank: 11th Cleveland Browns QB rank: Hoyer - 18th, McCown - 28th, Manziel - 55th (I included both Hoyer and McCown just to show the difference in their performances last season.) Conclusion: QB play is very important to the success of a team, obviously. Hoyer has been the best, and most stable, Browns QB since 1999 and he was still significantly worse than the average NFL playoff QB in 2014. Argument #4: You have to invest in franchise quarterbacks. Patriots (6th round pick) Broncos (1st round pick - acquired through FA) Steelers (1st round pick) Colts (1st round pick) Bengals (2nd round pick) Ravens (1st round pick) Seahawks (3rd round pick) Packers (1st round pick) Cowboys (undrafted) Panthers (1st round pick) Cardinals (2nd round pick - acquired through FA) Lions (1st round pick) More than half of the teams in the playoffs (59%) had first round quarterbacks. Nine of them (75%) had a quarterback taken in the first two rounds. Nearly every playoff team (83%) had a quarterback they drafted. Conclusion: While there are different ways to skin a cat, there has to be one way that's proven to be more effective than the rest. In this case, that's taking a QB in the first round. The biggest thing to acknowledge here is that taking a first round QB doesn't automatically guarantee success, especially when he's slotted for a later draft round (I'm looking at you, Brandon Weeden). It would be nice to find a Tom Brady or a Russell Wilson, but that isn't something you plan for. If there is a guy there that you believe possesses the tool set to turn your franchise around, you take him. You don't balk simply because you've fucked up in the past. Both positions (DT, QB) are clearly needs, for sure. And, at the end of the day, I'll be happy as long as we address both positions. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's much harder to win a Super Bowl with first round talent at every position and shit at QB than it is the other way around, but Brad Johnson and Tim Couch do like to prove me wrong on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j0hnnyg0l1ghtly Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 As a Browns fan, I don't think we should trade up for a QB. We should spend more time developing Manziel, with McNown as an insurance policy before really going out and getting yet another QB. If you look at how the Patriots have succeeded, it's not by using high draft picks to acquire high risk skill positions like QB/WR, but rather using these picks to find value in diamond in the rough OL and DL assets. Successful teams start at the core and then build around it, by first finding players capable of protecting the QB and stopping the run. Without this first taken care of, doesn't matter who you get. The chances of hitting on a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck in a draft are rare...while Mariotta has a lot of skill that translates at the college level, so did many other high profile college QBs who never made it big in the NFL. Taking yet another gamble on a "high profile" QB before addressing the deficiencies at OL and DL would be a mistake, especially before giving Manziel a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 TB-Winston.. Tenn.-- Goes Williams(which I would, Beast can't miss). Jacksonville is Baling to Rams at 4 or Skins at 5 and Chip Kelly's on line 2. No Way We get There. We have no Foles to offer either team. At this point would you take Foles if philly wants your 12?? I go no (Shelton, Brown or Beasley). But at 19 with our O-line. Got me thinking.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 As a Browns fan, I don't think we should trade up for a QB. We should spend more time developing Manziel, with McNown as an insurance policy before really going out and getting yet another QB. If you look at how the Patriots have succeeded, it's not by using high draft picks to acquire high risk skill positions like QB/WR, but rather using these picks to find value in diamond in the rough OL and DL assets. Successful teams start at the core and then build around it, by first finding players capable of protecting the QB and stopping the run. Without this first taken care of, doesn't matter who you get. The chances of hitting on a Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck in a draft are rare...while Mariotta has a lot of skill that translates at the college level, so did many other high profile college QBs who never made it big in the NFL. Taking yet another gamble on a "high profile" QB before addressing the deficiencies at OL and DL would be a mistake, especially before giving Manziel a chance. It's hard to compare strategies with the Patriots because they haven't had to worry about their quarterback since 1992. They haven't had to worry about investing high picks in WR/RB/etc. because Brady has made anyone around him good, just as Bledsoe before him. Building from the core is all well and good, but people will continue to complain about the offensive line production until we actually get a QB who doesn't play like garbage. No one was complaining for the first 6 games this season because Hoyer was playing well, then it suddenly became "oh his offensive line is letting him down". Good QB play overcomes mediocre everything else play. Bad QB play overshadows good everything else play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Three #1's + a #2 . . . and maybe more - so that's #12, #19, and #43 this year, and then the #1 from next year. That's the word on the street price to tag the #2 from the Titans. Now add in the Heisman performances in the NFL : http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000297440 Whaddya think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Three #1's + a #2 . . . and maybe more - so that's #12, #19, and #43 this year, and then the #1 from next year. That's the word on the street price to tag the #2 from the Titans. Now add in the Heisman performances in the NFL : http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000297440 Whaddya think ? If that's the "word on the street", then the Titans are stupid. No one will offer that and they'll be forced to take Mariota, when they're already supposed to be evaluating Mettenberger. The Titans are in a bad spot, I don't think they necessarily want Mariota, but they're not going to get what they want via a trade, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 If any of you guys are in need of a good automobile, I have a 2011 Subaru Outback, Premium Edition for sale. $435,000. Let me know if you're interested. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I still don't think the Browns are ready to give up on Manziel just yet. Has an NFL front office ever admitted that they whiffed on a 1st round QB prospect after a game and a half? No.... that's our job. Are they? They are needs for sure, but "far,far" greater than that of QB? What's the most important piece to have to be a playoff team? Good effort, but there are many ways to succeed. It's just that none include bad players in key roles. ADP = average draft position? If that's the "word on the street", then the Titans are stupid. No one will offer that and they'll be forced to take Mariota, when they're already supposed to be evaluating Mettenberger. The Titans are in a bad spot, I don't think they necessarily want Mariota, but they're not going to get what they want via a trade, either. Or they will be forced to lower their price... It does not look to me that the price is being driven by the need to make it worth it for TN to hand over the pick. The price will be driven by what it takes to get them to give the pick to you vs. the "other guy". Same scenario in which StL found itself in '011. In an auction it only take to determined bidders to drive the price up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnerLangford Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 If we trade up again for a QB I will personally kill our entire front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieCamacho84 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 If any of you guys are in need of a good automobile, I have a 2011 Subaru Outback, Premium Edition for sale. $435,000. Let me know if you're interested. WSS Would you take $14,500? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I've been away for awhile and haven't payed much attention to the college game this past year but isn't MM basically a taller version of JM, sans the partying/media attention? I'm sure a more astute student of the game could give a much better assessment than myself but I don't see much upside in trading a shit ton of assets for a similar asset we already have. What I do know is my Thunder will be in the Finals and win, especially against your Cavs, and the Injury All-stars (aka the Wes Mantooth's) are making a late season push into the top half of the Browns Board Fantasy basketball league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Are they? They are needs for sure, but "far,far" greater than that of QB? What's the most important piece to have to be a playoff team? My personal stance is that we need a QB more than we need a DT, however I'm not sure how I feel about Mariota or Winston being that guy. I'd personally love for one of them to be the guy, but that's neither here nor there. There's been a few arguments rolling around about who to take, when to take them, and what's more important, so I just compiled something during my lunch break to show both sides. (Keep in mind, the following isn't an argument about draft position, it's purely about what is more of a need for the Cleveland Browns in today's NFL. ) Argument #1: You don't need to invest heavily in a defensive line for it to be good. The top 5 defensive lines last season (against the run) were Detroit, Denver, St. Louis, Buffalo, and Seattle. Detroit has three first round picks(#2, #5, #13 )and a second rounder (#54) along their defensive line. (ADP= 18.5) Denver has two first round picks (#11, #28), a second round pick (#36) and a third round pick (#72) on their defensive line. (ADP = 46.5) St. Louis has four first round picks (#2, #13, #13, #14) along their defensive line. (ADP 10.75) Buffalo had three first round picks (#1, #3, #31) and a fifth round pick (#134) on their defensive line (ADP= 42.25) Seattle had one first round pick (#9), one third round pick (#72) and two undrafted players on their defensive line. (ADP=153.75) It's clear that, in order to have an elite defensive line, it helps to invest heavily in it...as evidenced by the fact that most of the top 5 have multiple, if not all, of their positions filled by first round talent. Seattle, the only team in the top 5 to make it to their conference championship (and, by extension, the Super Bowl), has only one first round player along their defensive front. So, while investing heavily in your defensive line is clearly a good way to make it "elite", it's not the only way. The Browns clearly don't have many highly drafted players across their defensive line. Assuming Rubin returns, which isn't going to happen, that still only leaves Cleveland with one first-round player, two sixth-round players, and one undrafted player across a four-man front. That's why, as most analysts have been saying, Cleveland's biggest hole is likely DT. Average top-5 defensive line ADP: 54.35 What the Cleveland Browns currently have: 168 Differential= 113.65 Conclusion: Busted. The top defensive lines are mostly composed of solid first and second round talent. Argument #2: You don't need an elite defensive line to win a Super Bowl The defensive line rankings of all playoff teams (against run, then pass, then averaged): Patriots (18th, 19th, 19th) Broncos (2nd, 23rd, 12th) Steelers (20th, 20th, 20th) Colts (22nd, 9th, 16th) Bengals (27th, 31st, 29th) Ravens (7th, 5th , 6th) Seahawks (5th, 14th, 10th) Packers (26th, 13th, 20th) Cowboys (17th, 29th, 18th) Panthers (10th, 7th, 9th) Cardinals (6th, 28th, 17th) Lions (1st, 18th, 10th) Average (run, pass): 13th, 23rd Overall average: 18th *bolded teams are teams that made it to their respective conference championships. It doesn't seem like a truly dominant defensive line is something that any of the top playoff teams had last season. Playoff teams averaged together had the 13th ranked defensive line in rushing and 23rd in passing. Overall, playoff teams had the 18th ranked defensive lines. Further, the top defensive lines didn't necessarily result in top playoff performances. For example, Detroit and Denver, who finished #1 and #2 in defensive line production last year, respectively, of course did not have favorably playoff performances. Cleveland's defensive line performance last year was less-than-stellar, to say the least. Some can be attributed to injuries, sure. However, there is an argument to be had that there simply isn't enough talent. Rubin is likely gone and that leaves a 350 pound hole to be filled (and I'm not talking about Ghoolie's mom). Average playoff team defensive line performance (run, pass, overall): (13th, 23rd, 18th) Cleveland Browns 2014 performance: (29th, 25th, 27th) Conclusion: Based off of last season, true. Basically none of the "premier" (read: full of first round picks + top performing) defensive lines made it very far in the playoffs, with Detroit losing immediately and Denver losing in the divisional round. St. Louis, obviously, didn't even make to the playoffs. Seattle, the 5th ranked defensive line, of course made it to the Super Bowl. Argument #3: Good teams have good quarterbacks. The QB rankings of all playoff teams: Patriots (10th) Broncos (4th) Steelers (T-1st) Colts (3rd) Bengals (16th) Ravens (12th) Seahawks (15th) Packers (7th) Cowboys (14th) Panthers (21st) Cardinals (31st) Lions (9th) Average: 11th Nearly all of the playoff teams had solid to exceptional play from their quarterbacks, with the exception of Arizona. Six of the 12 playoff teams (50%) had top-10 QB play. Nine of the 12 teams (75%) had QB play better than league average. Average playoff QB rank: 11th Cleveland Browns QB rank: Hoyer - 18th, McCown - 28th, Manziel - 55th (I included both Hoyer and McCown just to show the difference in their performances last season.) Conclusion: QB play is very important to the success of a team, obviously. Hoyer has been the best, and most stable, Browns QB since 1999 and he was still significantly worse than the average NFL playoff QB in 2014. Argument #4: You have to invest in franchise quarterbacks. Patriots (6th round pick) Broncos (1st round pick - acquired through FA) Steelers (1st round pick) Colts (1st round pick) Bengals (2nd round pick) Ravens (1st round pick) Seahawks (3rd round pick) Packers (1st round pick) Cowboys (undrafted) Panthers (1st round pick) Cardinals (2nd round pick - acquired through FA) Lions (1st round pick) More than half of the teams in the playoffs (59%) had first round quarterbacks. Nine of them (75%) had a quarterback taken in the first two rounds. Nearly every playoff team (83%) had a quarterback they drafted. Conclusion: While there are different ways to skin a cat, there has to be one way that's proven to be more effective than the rest. In this case, that's taking a QB in the first round. The biggest thing to acknowledge here is that taking a first round QB doesn't automatically guarantee success, especially when he's slotted for a later draft round (I'm looking at you, Brandon Weeden). It would be nice to find a Tom Brady or a Russell Wilson, but that isn't something you plan for. If there is a guy there that you believe possesses the tool set to turn your franchise around, you take him. You don't balk simply because you've fucked up in the past. Both positions (DT, QB) are clearly needs, for sure. And, at the end of the day, I'll be happy as long as we address both positions. Personally, I'm of the opinion that it's much harder to win a Super Bowl with first round talent at every position and shit at QB than it is the other way around, but Brad Johnson and Tim Couch do like to prove me wrong on that front. yo,i think flugel ran away. you scared him with a 5+ paragraph retort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 No.... that's our job. Good effort, but there are many ways to succeed. It's just that none include bad players in key roles. ADP = average draft position? Or they will be forced to lower their price... It does not look to me that the price is being driven by the need to make it worth it for TN to hand over the pick. The price will be driven by what it takes to get them to give the pick to you vs. the "other guy". Same scenario in which StL found itself in '011. In an auction it only take to determined bidders to drive the price up. True, and there are very few teams with the summon took that we have right now. Offering solely draft picks, Philly can't compare with us. We're in the driver's seat. If TN wants to set the bar at 3 firsts + a second...walk away. However, there aren't other teams who have the same draft ammo we have this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 What I read when the average performance from a playoff team at QB ranks as #11 - you need a sound team with few holes or weaknesses and a slightly above average QB to challenge for a Super Bowl. Sounds about what the Browns are shooting for here. Minus McCown being a slightly above average QB. Fact is, in a draft as such - Shelton takes premise over MM. Again, if there was that sure - fire, can't miss QB ... I'll trade my entire draft and then some. If an Andrew Luck clone pops up next year, whatever franchise has the #1 pick, I'd offer my whole draft, the following years 1st, The Jake, The Gund and Lebrons first son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 of course there's no way to prove this but I would venture a guess that if you traded the top 10 quarterbacks for the bottom 10 quarterbacks the teams at the top would not be quite as good as they were before but those bottom 10 quarterbacks would have better ratings then they had with their bottom 10 teams. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 of course there's no way to prove this but I would venture a guess that if you traded the top 10 quarterbacks for the bottom 10 quarterbacks the teams at the top would not be quite as good as they were before but those bottom 10 quarterbacks would have better ratings then they had with their bottom 10 teams. WSS Replace shitty players with good players? That.... might have some merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Replace shitty players with good players? That.... might have some merit. Well that's not quite The point as I'm sure you know. I'm saying Josh McCown on the Patriots would mean the Patriots would suffer but McCown's record would be better. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Well that's not quite The point as I'm sure you know. I'm saying Josh McCown on the Patriots would mean the Patriots would suffer but McCown's record would be better. WSS I know, bud. Just having a bit of sarcastic fun this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 ~nevermind~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Well that's not quite The point as I'm sure you know. I'm saying Josh McCown on the Patriots would mean the Patriots would suffer but McCown's record would be better. WSS For sure there is some talent transfer. But, in my opinion, there's a ceiling on that. There's not one QB who can turn Syndric Steptoe into Randy Moss just like there's not one WR who could turn Bruce Gradkowski into Peyton Manning. Again, it's a numbers game. Surround any QB with 10 talented offensive players and 11 talented defensive players and he'll reach his ceiling. That's obvious. But, one, that's hard to accomplish and two, there's often not enough time...especially in Cleveland. People are already calling for Pettine and Farmer's heads and then turned a 4-win team into a 7-win team in one season. Granted, those people are stupid, but enough stupid people being stupid together can influence big, stupid change. Another problem is that, at some point, you're reaching a point of saturation when you're adding talent to an already talented group. Adding a first round pick to our offensive line this year isn't probably going to result in as much of an overall performance upgrade as adding a first round pick to our defensive line would. That's because, as a unit, our offensive line is just better than our defensive line. Our biggest talent/production deficits are at DL and QB. Right now, we don't have a quarterback on our roster who was ranked in the top 20 last year. Our defensive line, on a similar note, finished 2014 among the worst 12 defensive lines in the league. That's what we have to address first. Not offensive line, not WR. QB and DL. Unfortunately, we won't be able to address both in the first round this year, so it's just about deciding who adds a greater overall upgrade to the team. In my opinion, that's the QB. Like Farmer said, you look for the guy who is directly involved in more plays. If money were no object and we weren't the Cleveland Browns: -Sign Suh (Top DL) -Sign Cobb (Top FA WR) -Trade 12, 19, and next years #1 for Mariota (One of the top QB's) -Take Bernardick McKinney in the second (One of the top ILB's) -Draft Lorenzo Mauldin in the third (solid pass rushing OLB) In a more realistic world: - Sign Terrance Knighton - Sign Brian Hartline - Draft Malcom Brown at #12 - Draft Andrus Peat at #19 - Draft Bryce Petty in the second Bryce Petty could be this year's Derek Carr - a guy with all of the athletic talent in the world, coming from a questionable system, overshadowed by the bigger quarterbacks in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFBF Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Peter King on Mariota : http://mmqb.si.com/2015/03/04/2015-draft-marcus-mariota-oregon-scott-frost/ Confirms my biggest observation, that his Receivers are always wide ass open, thus the high numbers and completion %. Winston in the best QB this year, and he's got too many off field issues. Mariota just doesn't show me NFL potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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