Mudfly Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 So through all the different discussions on different positions, I see a recurring theme that well just have to keep an extra player at "xyz position" because this guys a keeper...or we had problems there last year,,,etc. So, now, I have officially seen people(myself included) recommend we carry an extra QB, OL, DL, WR, RB, LB and CB...plus the possibility of keeping someone just for 2 pt convo's and/or kick returns..... Quick math says we cant carry 8 to 10 extra guys......sooooooo......reality is good players are getting cut. Browns have said in no uncertain terms that the best 53 stay, so I dont expect that to change.... Without naming all of the players(you can make your own mental lists), here are some thoughts on how many we could(or should) carry at each position....last year we had 28 on D and 22 on O....Plus 3 ST.... After each position is the number we carried at the start of last year and (in parentheses) are my guess on how many we start with this year...and why... QB - 2(3)...I see 3 QB's this year as a no brainer. Last year, it was clear that JM was not ready to be the BU and it hurt us at the end. I haven't seen(or heard) anything to change that and feel Connor Shaw would be a nice safety net. PLUS, I dont think he'll clear waivers, so PS is probably out of the question if we want to keep him.....so, thats +1 RB - 4(4)....I see nice depth here and dont see any reason to carry an extra. If we add a FB, which I believe we really want to do, then a promising RB will have to go. Probably Winston......so no change OL - 8(7)....Im thinking this is where we carry one less. A) Based upon talent, our bu's here are not as good as the bu's at other positions(not top 53)....plus, with Erving and Greco, we have a much more flexible fluid situation. Finally, most people buy their home alarm "after" they've been robbed, but lightening rarely strikes twice....so lets not overreact and add guys we probably dont need....so thats -1.....or back to even WR - 5(5)....This is a position that a LOT of folks would like to see an extra at. Basically, to protect Benji or Pryor from getting cut. While I see the benfit of keeping Pryor as a project, I also consider that Mayle is developmental and Gordon is slated to return next year. PLUS, Housler and Johnson will be working out of the slot, already taking WR reps away from the existing group. So, unless someone has an amazing spring and demands to be on the roster, I see Pettine going light here.....so no change TE - 3(3)....Another position I see staying the same, with Telfer going on IR as the developmental guy. Johnson and Bibbs "may" be listed as TE's, but I have one of them being the 4th RB/FB and the other getting cut or going to ps.....so no change So, on offense, I see the same 22 men, except we carry an extra QB in exchange for a O lineman.... DL - 7(8)....I think this is a position where the quality of depth, coupled with the rash of injuries last year, calls for us to keep an extra man. Heck, I could probably argue to keep 9, but dont see that happening. So, lets call this one +1..... LB - 9(8)....ok, another position I think we can drop one. Maybe now one of the weaker position groups and the 8th or 9th LB just wont help this team right now. So, Im going with 4 inside and 4 outside. Pullard is the likely fall guy, but as a 7th rounder, Im certain we can get him to the PS no problem.....so this one is -1, bringing us back to even..... CB - 7(7)....obviously we have huge depth here and I see us keeping it. So, assuming Ekpre-Olumo is on IR and all the dime packages we seem to use, I see us staying at 7. If Gaines or Nelson dont play well, then maybe we go with 6 and add a DL.....Still even..... S - 5(5).....another spot where I see us staying the same. Basically, we're just losing Leonard and adding Campbell.....so, even again...... And, on defense, I see the same 28 men, except we carry an extra DL in exchange for a LB...... So, would you change any of these?.....which ones?......would you carry just a goal line guy or kr or developmental guy, if so, what position gets cut to cover that?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Johnson or Gilbert are fully capable of taking over the kr spot. I also think Conner Shaw could survive the PS for another year given the "new" JM 2.0 and the fact no one claimed him off it last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Agree TA1969. Good stuff Mud. I see 6 WR Mayle and Pryor(career on line) in a 14 rounder to the end of camp. Both in. Shaw last shot to beat out JM or PS=wavier loss maybe. Shaw a gutsy, hard nose gamer of Hoyer but come on arm speed with accuracy.. We know we want to run the ball and involve Backs in the passing game but we play some damn good NFL defenses this season and you have to get some good QB play in spots and it is a passing friendly league at this point to put points on the scoreboard not FG's. Hell a extra point not a given anymore. Throw the damn ball down Field, to many good thing happen anymore. Keep 6.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 You did a nice job with that Mud. While we're getting better from top to bottom - we're also improving our personnel for situational football by leaps and bounds. That's going to make for some tough decisions as you alluded to. We will be cutting good players that can/will still play in this league. 1 Kicker - Coons 1 Punter - Lee 1 Long Snapper - Hughlett? (3) 8 Olinemen - Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Schwartz, Bowie, Erving, Seymour 6 WRs - Hawkins, Gabriel, Bowe, Hartline, Mayle, Benjamin or Pryor 3 QBs - McCown, Manziel, Shaw 4 TEs - Housler, Barnidge, Dray, Bibbs 1 FB - M. Johnson 3 RBs - Crowell, West, D. Johnson (25) 7 Dlinemen - Shelton, Hughes, Winn, Starks, D.Bryant, Cooper & Pus Gut (Taylor) 4 OLB - Kruger, Orchard, Solomon, Mingo 4 ILB - Dansby, Robertson, Kirksey, Carder 5 CBs - Haden, T. Williams, K. Williams, Gilbert, Desir 5 S - Whitner, Gipson, Poyer, Bademosi, Campbell (25) Practice Squad: Charles Gaines (CB) Hayes Pullard (ILB) Rodney Smith (WR) Glenn Winston (RB) Dylan Wynn (DL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Agree TA1969. Good stuff Mud. I see 6 WR Mayle and Pryor(career on line) in a 14 rounder to the end of camp. Both in. Shaw last shot to beat out JM or PS=wavier loss maybe. Shaw a gutsy, hard nose gamer of Hoyer but come on arm speed with accuracy.. We know we want to run the ball and involve Backs in the passing game but we play some damn good NFL defenses this season and you have to get some good QB play in spots and it is a passing friendly league at this point to put points on the scoreboard not FG's. Hell a extra point not a given anymore. Throw the damn ball down Field, to many good thing happen anymore. Keep 6.. Nice post Gumby! It looks to me like Farmer & Pettine prioritized the red zone offense in their second off season so we're more balanced and less predictable. It's been fun reading that McCown was hitting guys deep and in-stride. On top of adding a lot more size, we definitely have some speed on our perimeter. We also have some refreshingly reliable hands. All this has me thinking we keep 6 as well. I also like TA69's idea about the KR specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I think Connor Shaw stays, if McCown or Manziel gets hurt.... with Shaw lost on the practice squad after showing he can be a very, very smart and effective backup... the Browns would be in trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Nice job Mud. The only spot I would say is a miss on your part. I don't see any way we carry less than 8 OL. I could even see that going up to 9. Two back-ups for 5 line spots isn't enough, especially with Macks status for next year up in the air. The good thing we have is it isn't getting as easy as it was in years past to cut off a few players at the bottom of the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 With the way we'll seemingly be switching personnel groupings, it's probably useless to try and guess starting players at each position. Instead, I'll go by grouping. QB - McCown / Manziel / Shaw (3) RB - Crowell / Johnson / West (3) FB - Johnson (1) WR - Bowe / Hartline / Gabriel / Hawkins / Mayle / Pryor (6) TE - Housler / Dray / Barnidge - (3) OL - Thomas / Bitonio / Mack / Greco / Schwartz / Erving / Bowie / Painter / Seymour (9) DL - Starks / Shelton / Taylor / Bryant / Kitchen / Hughes/ Cooper (7) ILB - Dansby/ Kirksey / Robertson (3) OLB - Kruger / Solomon/ Mingo / Orchard / Bryant (5) CB - Haden / T. Williams / K. Williams / Gilbert / Desir (5) S - Gipson / Whitner / Poyer / Bademosi / Campbell (5) That's 50. Plus a long snapper, punter and kicker rounds out our starting 53. We could also go one less at both DT and OL, due to the fact that we have hybrid players who can play at multiple positions. If that were the case, I'd vote Seymour and Kitchen to be the ones gone, allowing us to go one deeper at CB and RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 With pre-season still weeks away pretty much like reading tea leaves at this point... but that's never stopped us before. Deal me in... It's already been stated by our staff that beyond traditional, prudent minimums talent is going to determine roster position distribution. One of the talents that is going to be front and center in 2015 is position flexibility.QB 2->2.5I'm going to disagree on Shaw. I think he's a casualty. I simply do not see us having the luxury of grooming a back-up at this point of our team development... and as much as I like him, I cannot see him developing into a starter.If he makes it to the PS... great.If not... the "next-next man up" is found via a quick reversal on "WR" Pryor should either of our top two go down. It's not like he's a stranger to Flip... WR 5->5.5 Insert WR here to balance the books with the other "half" of Pryor. Of course, Benji stays... TE 3->3 I think either Dray or Barnidge ends up being the "Bubble Puppy" (Name that tune!). Love them both, however, Houlser looks like 2015's shiny, new, offensive toy... and his TE/WR hybrid potential adds value... and Bibbs seems on his way to surprising us with his block/receive balance. Add in Bibbs' F-back versatility and youth, and there's your third TE. OL 8->8 A surprising number of burgled homes are revisited a couple months later to see what kind of new, replacement items the insurance fairy brought. Add 2016 FA questions around two possible 2015 starters and it'd be nice if we could do a little stockpiling this year... but at least let's stand pat. It does not hurt that it appears that we have the roster talent to justify a little padding/ stand-patting. As for who??? Only the 8th spot is in question... I'll go with a new (to us) guy... Eric Olsen. RB 4->4 At some point I think Lundy's HB/FB swing value wins him the 4th spot, but that may come after some PS time depending on M. Johnson's Pre-season showing at FB. Either way we are seriously upgrading the FB position from 2014. HB looks set with Crow as the feature back and Duke the change-up. Feels like West is going to have to get very serious to garner meaningful PT this year. That puts the O at 23... up one from 2014. Sorry, Mud, but I think one of your prized Safeties has to go... especially considering Desir's SS potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 You did a nice job with that Mud. While we're getting better from top to bottom - we're also improving our personnel for situational football by leaps and bounds. That's going to make for some tough decisions as you alluded to. We will be cutting good players that can/will still play in this league. 5 CBs - Haden, T. Williams, K. Williams, Gilbert, Desir You know....looking at this.....I kinda like the 5 CB idea, as the last 2 dont seem special and there are so many other needs. Id be very agreeable to this and adding an extra OL, DL or WR.....though, I do feel that Pettine loves him some DB's and he might stay with the higher number.....browns board be damned!.... With pre-season still weeks away pretty much like reading tea leaves at this point... but that's never stopped us before. Deal me in... I'm going to disagree on Shaw. I think he's a casualty TE 3->3 I think either Dray or Barnidge ends up being the "Bubble Puppy" (Name that tune!). That puts the O at 23... up one from 2014. Sorry, Mud, but I think one of your prized Safeties has to go... especially considering Desir's SS potential. Ouch....and safety AND Shaw???.....say it aint so......ha! Ive waffled many times on Bademosi and have had us keeping 4 Safeties till right now......not sure that well keep "someone" just for special teams, but if we do....he could be the one....?..... All the posts are good perspectives and solid arguments......the next month should be really fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 My Blind 50 plus 3 ST=53. Camp battles a plenty. On the O Fence- OL *Seymour/Olsen. WR's *Benji/Moore/Jennings/Smith and Lenz (tell them we have no WR's).RB's Lundy and Winston.. On the D Fence- *Kitchen/D. Wynn/T. Slater. LB's *A. Bryant/*Carder. CB's Nelson/James. S- *Poyer Out sounds crazy but *'s add up to 6 that our talent losses/trade which will be in somebody's lineup no doubt. QB - McCown / Manziel / (Shaw PS) (3) RB - Crowell / Johnson / West (3) FB - Johnson, (Lundy PS) (2) WR - Bowe / Hartline / Gabriel / Hawkins / Mayle / Pryor (6) TE - Housler / Dray / Barnidge, (Bibbs PS) - (4) OL - Thomas / Bitonio / Mack / Greco / Schwartz / Erving / Bowie (7) DL - Starks / Shelton / Taylor / Bryant /B. Wynn / Hughes/ Cooper (7) ILB - Dansby/ Kirksey / Robertson, (Pullard PS) (4) OLB - Kruger / Solomon/ Mingo / Orchard (4) CB - Haden / T. Williams / K. Williams / Gilbert / Desir, (Gaines PS) (6) S - Gipson / Whitner / Bademosi , (Campbell PS) (4) We can Dress 46. Good luck with that one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Hey Gumby.....you get 53 , PLUS 10 for PS.........merry christmas...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Mud, I like your layout here. Been referencing it a bunch. Good analogy on the home break ins and offensive line depth. However, the Mack injury notwithstanding, we were very fortunate to have our other 4 guys not miss a single snap. You can't really count on that every year. I don't know if that impacts the number we carry, just wanted to float that. Tour, who were the 5 receivers in your mind? That spot is getting mighty crowded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted August 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Mud, I like your layout here. Been referencing it a bunch. Good analogy on the home break ins and offensive line depth. However, the Mack injury notwithstanding, we were very fortunate to have our other 4 guys not miss a single snap. You can't really count on that every year. I don't know if that impacts the number we carry, just wanted to float that. Yeah...I guess my thinking was that with Greco(who can play OG and C) and now, Erving, who can play OT, OG and C.....we'd have it covered with 7....which would allow for ANY 2 players to go down before we gotta tap the PS or reserves.....and anyone we would keep as a reserve/bu would probably make it to the PS.....(Seymour/Painter??) So Id go with the starting 5 of Thomas, Bito, Mack, Greco & Schwartz.....plus Bowie and Erving as the reserves.... Then only Seymour and painter remain.....and they gotta decide if these 2 add more value than an extra WR or QB or any other position or ST player may add.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Good work as always there! I do think just based on everything we know about the offense we'll have 8 OL on the week one roster. I don't think it's a big secret that the run game will be featured, and having depth at the position isn't a bad thing. I do like the 3 RB, 1 FB look too. I think you're pretty spot on about losing a LB too. I agree with some others here that I'm pretty sure Shaw would make it back to the PS, and if Pryor hangs on I'd be fine with 2 QB's and having Pryor as emergency (could be worse). If history has shown us the past few seasons that may just happen too...God let's hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Tour, who were the 5 receivers in your mind? That spot is getting mighty crowded. Really 6 counting "all of" Pryor... Bowe, Gabe, Hartline, Hawkins, Benji and Pryor. I'm surprised Mayle has been practicing with (by most accounts) one hand. I thought they'd have been paving his way to the PUP list from start of camp. Big question now is: are we on our way to keeping a 5th RB due to the accumulation of minor TC injuries including my dark horse, Lundy. I don't like seeing any, but of the minors "concussion" is really the one that bothers me. I think we've had two so far, Lundy and the new OL, Madsen. You just can't better warm-up/ wrap the brain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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