OldBrownsFan Posted December 19, 2014 Report Share Posted December 19, 2014 Hoyer has proven that he can be a good quarterback in the NFL. The offense has not been the same since pro bowl center Mack went out injured. The running game has suffered as well as the play of Hoyer since Mack has been out. I believe with an improved offensive line Hoyer will be back playing like he has shown he is capable of. I have little confidence in Manziel and I don't like all the celebrity status he has been receiving when he has not even proven he is capable of being an NFL quarterback. I can't pin the embarrasing loss to the Bengals solely on Manziel as that was a total team lack of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 College statistics Johnny Manziel's college statistics[37] Year Team Pass Attempts Pass Completions Completion % Pass Yards Pass TDs INT Passer Rating Rush Attempts Rush Yards Rush Avg Rush TDs 2011 Redshirt 2012 Texas A&M 434 295 68.0% 3,706 26 9 155.3 201 1,410 7.0 21 2013 Texas A&M 429 300 69.9% 4,114 37 13 172.9 144 759 5.3 9 Total 863 595 68.9% 7,820 63 22 164.1 345 2,169 6.3 30 For the idiot who says he knows his college career. Notice that passer rating changing (155.3 to 172.9) AFTER the Heisman and those yards running cut almost in half as well as less than half the running TD's. Do you have any inkling why that is? Let me clue you in. He spent the whole off season doing everything he could to learn how to become a pocket passer because he knew he needed that for the NFL. He worked his ass off and became the leading pass %age QB in the nation his second year. So-you know shit about his college career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Yet you attack the messenger and not the message. Of course, cause you can't refute the facts and you know it.Facts? What factss? I don't attack you personally just the stupid baseless shit you spew. I've never met you, for all I know you are the one of the nicest spewers of baseless shit in the world. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 College statistics Johnny Manziel's college statistics[37] Year Team Pass Attempts Pass Completions Completion % Pass Yards Pass TDs INT Passer Rating Rush Attempts Rush Yards Rush Avg Rush TDs 2011 Redshirt 2012 Texas A&M 434 295 68.0% 3,706 26 9 155.3 201 1,410 7.0 21 2013 Texas A&M 429 300 69.9% 4,114 37 13 172.9 144 759 5.3 9 Total 863 595 68.9% 7,820 63 22 164.1 345 2,169 6.3 30 For the idiot who says he knows his college career. Notice that passer rating changing (155.3 to 172.9) AFTER the Heisman and those yards running cut almost in half as well as less than half the running TD's. Do you have any inkling why that is? Let me clue you in. He spent the whole off season doing everything he could to learn how to become a pocket passer because he knew he needed that for the NFL. He worked his ass off and became the leading pass %age QB in the nation his second year. So-you know shit about his college career. I think discussions about his excellent college career belong on A&M forums. No doubt though, it was an excellent college career otherwise he wouldn't have won the heisman. But we only have 1 NFL game to analyze so far. We'll get another one in a couple cays, I hope he shows aggressiveness, decisiveness, and intelligence on his way to 2 wins. But we'll see. No excuse for Sunday though, shitty rookie debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I'm not sure I understand the bitterness toward college performance. Isn't that the basis with which we select any player in the draft? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think discussions about his excellent college career belong on A&M forums. No doubt though, it was an excellent college career otherwise he wouldn't have won the heisman. But we only have 1 NFL game to analyze so far. We'll get another one in a couple cays, I hope he shows aggressiveness, decisiveness, and intelligence on his way to 2 wins. But we'll see. No excuse for Sunday though, shitty rookie debut. yep. All that is ancient history now. All discussed well beyond death. Well beyond...... Seen every stat 5000 times, every game, evry highlight video, watched all his preseason games and now this past weeks game. As they say, this is a "what have you done for me lately" league, where you wear your big boy pants or get your ass kicked. No more talk about the past.....it's present and future only And PLEASE.....Do NOT project the PAST into the FUTURE for me.....Ill let his play as a BROWN speak for itself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 LMAO@Brady being called Elite. A fucking System QB being called Elite. This cements your utter idiocy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I am quite embarrassed people would give up on Johnny after one start. The idiocy of Browns fans impatience. People that are calling for Johnnys head are the fools that root for the backup QB every year. I swear there is a delusion in the fanbase due to the losing over the past 15 years. We can't ever let a guy get comfortable. I believe in Johnny. I think he can be a winner in this league. Super Bowl?hell idk. But he is all we got now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I am quite embarrassed people would give up on Johnny after one start. The idiocy of Browns fans impatience. People that are calling for Johnnys head are the fools that root for the backup QB every year. I swear there is a delusion in the fanbase due to the losing over the past 15 years. We can't ever let a guy get comfortable. I believe in Johnny. I think he can be a winner in this league. Super Bowl?hell idk. But he is all we got now +1 WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypicalBrowns Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 The idiots chanting Hoyer on Sunday just absolutely upset me. steve, thank you for your logic and conclusive evidence of brain activity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 College statistics Johnny Manziel's college statistics Cool. Now quote his stats against top 50 defenses. Highlight Flordia, LSU and Mizzou, please. I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardejw Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I am quite embarrassed people would give up on Johnny after one start. The idiocy of Browns fans impatience. People that are calling for Johnnys head are the fools that root for the backup QB every year. I swear there is a delusion in the fanbase due to the losing over the past 15 years. We can't ever let a guy get comfortable. I believe in Johnny. I think he can be a winner in this league. Super Bowl?hell idk. But he is all we got now It is actually 50 years. I went to the last one we won and 2 we lost all in the '60's. People are equally pissed that Modell took the last real shot at a championship when he bolted. I trust that Johnny will be more disciplined this week. All across Texas saw Johnny get his ass handed to him in his hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoundDawg Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 The idiocy of Browns fans impatience. People that are calling for Johnnys head are the fools that root for the backup QB every year. I swear there is a delusion in the fanbase due to the losing over the past 15 years. We can't ever let a guy get comfortable. kind of like what happened to Brian? This QB controversy can't really be shocking to Browns fans, can it? The franchise basically set them both up for this. Hoyer the hometown guy who gave us a little taste of competent QB play last season against the most hyped QB to ever enter the draft? This was absolutely destined to happen from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 kind of like what happened to Brian? This QB controversy can't really be shocking to Browns fans, can it? The franchise basically set them both up for this. Hoyer the hometown guy who gave us a little taste of competent QB play last season against the most hyped QB to ever enter the draft? This was absolutely destined to happen from the start. No it's actually nothing like what happened to Brian Hoyer. I haven't heard anybody rail against him for absolutely ridiculous reasons. The hatred of Johnny is based on the fact he has a little celebrity. So what? Nobody hated Hoyer and nobody hates him now. No doubt he was hurt by dropped passes and missed routes, but so was Brandon Weeden Brady Quinn Charlie Frye on and on and on. And so was Johnny, these things happen. Many of us believe that if the team can operate on a high level that a quarterback who can do the same will result and great success. We hope the Johnny will be that guy. As next season winds up we may all be disappointed. But that's why people who know a lot more about football than we do drafted him. And conversely there must be some reason that other people who know a lot more about football than we do decided they didn't need Brian Hoyer on their team over the years. We all wish he'd been special. And we all hope Johnny will but we don't hate Brian like you guys hate Johnny. (and remember Brian Hoyer was taken where he was because of his performance in college too) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I think discussions about his excellent college career belong on A&M forums. No doubt though, it was an excellent college career otherwise he wouldn't have won the heisman. But we only have 1 NFL game to analyze so far. We'll get another one in a couple cays, I hope he shows aggressiveness, decisiveness, and intelligence on his way to 2 wins. But we'll see. No excuse for Sunday though, shitty rookie debut. I totally agree but when junkyard starts spewing crap about his college career I felt it important to point out there was a basis for picking him in the first place. Venom from him does not refute the quoted stats. Somehow people forget what that means for the future. It is a fact that he worked his butt off to change his game from his Heisman season to his second season. He could have just rested on that alone and done nothing at all, but the FACT is he worked with a QB specialist out in California to move towards a pro level game, not something anyone can achieve overnight. He will do the same for Cleveland if given the chance. Only a few here recognize both of those facts which ARE supported by the data and the history I provided. Why do you think Nick Saban told Johnny on national TV that he was the most competitive player he had ever seen on any level of coaching? Give this kid time to change. One game or even 3 mean nothing at all when someone is doing their best to learn something new. And how is it so many think he is doing nothing when his own HC says he is doing everything they ask of him. Some here have recognized what has happened in Cleveland since 1999. You want an instant cure for a losing culture. Running off every player who just might help will do nothing but perpetuate the same. Learn from your own history. And just for the record I felt Hoyer got screwed because this is really what hurt the Browns the most. It's a very good article. You can't lose the key to your O line and be the same QB. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_browns_center_alex_m_11.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 I totally agree but when junkyard starts spewing crap about his college career I felt it important to point out there was a basis for picking him in the first place. Venom from him does not refute the quoted stats. Somehow people forget what that means for the future. It is a fact that he worked his butt off to change his game from his Heisman season to his second season. He could have just rested on that alone and done nothing at all, but the FACT is he worked with a QB specialist out in California to move towards a pro level game, not something anyone can achieve overnight. He will do the same for Cleveland if given the chance. Only a few here recognize both of those facts which ARE supported by the data and the history I provided. Why do you think Nick Saban told Johnny on national TV that he was the most competitive player he had ever seen on any level of coaching? Give this kid time to change. One game or even 3 mean nothing at all when someone is doing their best to learn something new. And how is it so many think he is doing nothing when his own HC says he is doing everything they ask of him. Some here have recognized what has happened in Cleveland since 1999. You want an instant cure for a losing culture. Running off every player who just might help will do nothing but perpetuate the same. Learn from your own history. We are all rooting for him, but there are signs ... from the Manning Camp, to admitting he prepared much harder last week than he normally does, that make you scratch your head. The best QBs in the league are gym rats ...Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers ... they are football nerds. It's really the only way to make it in the NFL. Hoyer probably has half the talent of Manziel, but he has the commitment part. We are hoping to see that from Johnny. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J GLASGO Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 You cant make a call on a rookie in one game.That is insane! So many Johnny haters hard to believe. The kid sat behind Brian and never complained or spewed any negativety. Don't understand the hatred! I think a lot of the oldtimers cant deal with his celebrity status.Might as well get used to it,because that's how the younger players are now. Last weeks game was a joke on a team level.Disgusting! And I think I would like my money back.I love the Browns and want a winner. Hoyer got a fair shake,and if he would not have regressed,he would never have been pulled.Give Johnny a fair chance,and see what happens.He is a competitor,i think he will be fine.One thing everybody keeps forgetting is how we got paired to compete with the weakest division EVER,and we still got losses.and barely won the others!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 You cant make a call on a rookie in one game.That is insane! So many Johnny haters hard to believe. .... Last weeks game was a joke on a team level.Disgusting! ....... Johnny a fair chance,and see what happens.He is a competitor,i think he will be fine.........One thing everybody keeps forgetting is how we got paired to compete with the weakest division EVER,and we still got losses.and barely won the others!! You can't make a call on how his career will be, after one game....... and most people know that.... The thing is, most of us are saying he looked terrible in the one game and the defenders are claiming we are condemning his whole future career(and thats really just a few nutz, not the majority)..... when the truth is we are only condemning last weeks performance....and playing time is the ONLY way anyone will know the ultimate outcome... So, it's a 2 way street.....I keep hearing from Johnnys camp how our WR's, O line and Defense sucked.....and from watching that game we could ALL see that is the truth....O line, WR's and D sucked..... So....why can we not say the same about JFF?.....he sucked too.....and saying that doen't mean I think he'll be a failure....and it doesn't mean I hate him......and it doesn't mean I love Hoyer.......and it doesn't mean I didn't see the other players play poorly..... It just means....that last week...he sucked.....The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Check the Stats and wins when Brady went down. The System had Cassel performing at the same level as Brady. Cassel leaves the system and turns to shit. It is what it is. "It" is a first ballot, HOF QB lock... You should not work so hard undermining any credibility you might have with off topic ramblings. Cool. Now quote his stats against top 50 defenses. Highlight Flordia, LSU and Mizzou, please. I'll wait. I was going to go with improved record to go with the improved stats, but after you... I trust that Johnny will be more disciplined this week. All across Texas saw Johnny get his ass handed to him in his hat. It was a lot more of the country than Texas. I trust that he cannot get any worse... different side of same coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Well here's a little ray of hope. Note especially how bad all these very good QB's started in first games. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000445192/article/troy-aikman-peyton-manning-among-qbs-with-bad-first-starts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 You mean "midget" ray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Ironic....because just 2 days ago Brian Billick said this..... http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/154644/brian-billick-burns-johnny-manziel-fan and this.... http://feinstein.radio.cbssports.com/2014/12/16/brian-billick-incredible-leap-of-faith-for-manziel-to-start-in-2015/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Ironic....because just 2 days ago Brian Billick said this..... To quote you from your 2015 Schedule OP... "wow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 This thread title is too gay, I have to change it. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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