Kamp Kizer

[Westside Steve]

 

Remember when Kizer is the Browns QB and no amount of sarcastic posts is going to change it?

So was johnny so was charlie frye so was brady quinn so was brandon weeden. And yet...

WSS

[jiggins7919]

New thoughts on Kizer after watching virtually every throw he made last year:

 

The Good:

 

Excellent grip strength, and this let's him perform awesome pump fakes and fool DB's. He loves the "hitch and go", and has thrown multiple TD's and long passes utilizing this route.

 

Excels on read-option pass plays, and isn't afraid to attack the middle of the defense against zone or man coverage. Had one of the highest passer ratings off of play-action in college football. He appears to favor the rhythm generated by the play fake, and this allows him to get his feet set and look for a primary read.

 

Has enough arm strength to push the ball to the outside, and generates favorable spin on the ball and tight spirals.

 

More mobile than you might think, and seems to have a nose for the end zone. Not afraid to push the pile when near a first down or the goal line. Possesses good vision and awareness on read-option plays, and seldom gets the read wrong. Has shown the ability to slide, but could implement this technique a bit more.

 

Has shown the ability to throw "back shoulder" at times, and will challenge DB's to give his receiver "one on one" chances.

 

Will hang tough in the pocket. Not looking to run at first sign of trouble.

 

The Bad:

 

Severe "stare down" syndrome, and this results in contested catches and interceptions. Won't last five seconds in the NFL doing this. Doesn't freeze safeties or look them off nearly enough.

 

Mental computer doesn't appear to function fast enough. You see it when he starts to pump fake and doesn't want to let the ball fly.

 

Doesn't exhibit necessary touch and accuracy on the short stuff.

 

Nowhere near as good passing the ball on plays without play-action.

 

Had the chance to win or tie multiple games late in the 4th quarter but seldom came away with the win. Kizer's defense played a key role in several of these, but you'd like to see your QB find a way to win more than he did.

 

Appears to lose confidence and lacks the ability to move on from mistakes. Kind of, "When he's good...he's good. When he's not...he's not" sort of thing.

 

Consensus:

 

The odds are definitely against him, as his confidence was probably shaken and I don't like it when a QB's mental computer appears to be slow. Very difficult to speed that up (Weeden). The biggest unknown is whether his play last year was a result of poor coaching and subpar supporting cast. I do like how he scrambles for first downs and touchdowns, but many of these came from designed runs, and that won't work as much in the NFL. He will slide, but he didn't do it nearly enough. He can succeed if Hue Jackson can find ways to simplify reads and make the game easier on him. Kizer is razor sharp off of play-action, and is quite adept at executing read-option play calls (a favorite of Hue Jackson). What I'll be looking for is how Kizer reacts after things go sour (and they always do for every QB at sometime). Can he put the past behind him, or will he tighten up and be afraid to make another mistake? Can Hue simplify the reads enough to get him comfortable until the playbook becomes better digested? Should Kizer even play this year if the difference between him and the other guys is marginal? I can make the argument that Kizer shouldn't play at all (if Brock and Cody remain healthy). Stash Kizer on the bench and let him learn as much as possible. Re-open the competition NEXT year after we have another huge haul in rounds 1 and 2 of the draft and improve our team that much more. On the oft chance Kizer immediately looks like he CAN play, then go ahead and start him ALL year. I say do one or the other. Do NOT turn this into a situation where Kizer is left wondering when or if he'll be yanked. That would be the quickest way to completely ruin him.

 

The problem with not playing Kizer is there's a good chance we still won't know if we have "the guy" when NEXT year's draft comes around, and the QB group might be that much better. You have to figure we'll be picking somewhat high, and we have the assets to move up wherever we want, so do we really want to spend yet another high draft pick on a QB? I think the best case scenario is Kizer looking like he can compete, and then Hue Jackson giving the kid the nod. Even if he finishes the year with 18 TD's and 24 INT's...let him play. Let him play so we know...as much as possible...if we have "our guy". Because if we do...if we truly do...it won't be THIS year's draft that shapes our team, it will be NEXT year's. It will be five of the first 60 picks that we can use to add skill and depth. We can add a safety, corner, WR, linebacker, and whatever else we need. Think about using five picks in the first two rounds AFTER we have our QB. It's almost mind boggling. It's the kind of foundation that can steady a team for years, and it's our turn now.

[The Gipper]

Comment dismissal coming up...

 

But, not from the source you thought it would come from, eh?

 

I think we've established a few times before that the wonderlic and football smarts don't necessarily go hand-in-hand.

Brandon weeden scored a twenty seven and you guys call him an idiot right?
WSS

[RoyceRolls]

Einstein flunked most of the tests he took.

 

Who in the fuck thinks "wonder-dick" means a fucking thing? You can't test how quick a guy can get rid of the football, DeShone Kizer is a dumb, dim-witted moron who will get crushed in the NFL.

 

You are yet another fucking idiot who thinks you can test intelligence to any credible measure. Total mental masturbation. It amazes me to the extent people, like you, have become sheep, unable to think for themselves. Read it here, and remember........ no matter how big of a temper tantrum your throw,,,,no matter how much you clench your teeth and pound your fists................... DeShit Kizer is NOT GOING TO SHOW GHOOLIE a gad-damned thing.

 

Kizer is an urban dimwit. When the pressure comes he will jump around like a nipple in a hot frying pan. He will either run and get TOTALLY fucked up, or he will throw the ball where he shouldn't. This guy is not just another waste of a draft pick, he is a catastrophe. Instead of finding a real QB prospect, he will cause Hue to again play musical QBs, to design a dink and dump offense, AND............he will be the final nail in Hue Jackson's coffin. Another RG3....................just one with healthy legs for us to watch get all fucked up thanks to Hue's fascination with jittery, erratic, inaccurate assholes. Make no mistake............Kizer goes nowhere.

Oh, ok. I'll try to avoid the mental masturbation and temper tantrums, that's some great advice that definitely isn't hypocrisy.

[hoorta]

 

Remember when Kizer is the Browns QB and no amount of sarcastic posts is going to change it?

 

Ha TC, I truly hope Kizer is the answer, and can put a stop to the ever lengthening QB jersey. But excuse me if I don't currently see it. He was the 4th QB off the board- and IMHO for a bunch of very good reasons. We've gone the "Factory Seconds" QB route again- and it's been a dismal failure since Couch got injured out of the league, NO? I'll thank Jiggins here for a very fair and unbiased look. If you can't acknowledge Kizer's many flaws, you're not being objective. If he was a true Andrew Luck level prospect- we would have taken him #1 overall, and screw taking Garrett.

 

Finally my sarcasm was directed at Hueless the Clueless. Hue may have backhanded compared Deshone to Rothlisberger, but this Old Curmudgeon compares him to Blake Bortles- until he proves differently. Judging on how a QB looks running around in a t-shirt and shorts with no pass rush will get you another disaster- just like Jackson's love affair with RG III. Hell's Bells- NFL level prospects & backup NFL trash QBs ALL look varying degrees of great under those circumstances. You watch those guys warming up at Training Camp, they're throwing laser guided passes with a margin of error of around 4 inches. Put a live NFL pass rush on them, and it's a different story.

 

At least we didn't waste a first round pick on him- (like #3 on Bortles) but a wasted pick is a wasted pick. Project QB, or a decent CB to help out the secondary @ #52? I go defense. "Suck for Sam".

[The Gipper]

Einstein flunked most of the tests he took.

 

Who in the fuck thinks "wonder-dick" means a fucking thing? You can't test how quick a guy can get rid of the football, DeShone Kizer is a dumb, dim-witted moron who will get crushed in the NFL.

 

You are yet another fucking idiot who thinks you can test intelligence to any credible measure. Total mental masturbation. It amazes me to the extent people, like you, have become sheep, unable to think for themselves. Read it here, and remember........ no matter how big of a temper tantrum your throw,,,,no matter how much you clench your teeth and pound your fists................... DeShit Kizer is NOT GOING TO SHOW GHOOLIE a gad-damned thing.

 

Kizer is an urban dimwit. When the pressure comes he will jump around like a nipple in a hot frying pan. He will either run and get TOTALLY fucked up, or he will throw the ball where he shouldn't. This guy is not just another waste of a draft pick, he is a catastrophe. Instead of finding a real QB prospect, he will cause Hue to again play musical QBs, to design a dink and dump offense, AND............he will be the final nail in Hue Jackson's coffin. Another RG3....................just one with healthy legs for us to watch get all fucked up thanks to Hue's fascination with jittery, erratic, inaccurate assholes. Make no mistake............Kizer goes nowhere.

Wait a minute: Kizer is from Toledo....you are from Youngstown. I mean, which Ohio urban area is more famous for bringing us dimwits.

 

Jamie Farr from Toledo. Well, he did cross dress....but it got him out of combat. So that was pretty smart, no ?

Joe Flynn....from Youngstown. Another guy that played a military guy on TV...Captain Binghampton on McHale's Navy. He was too stupid to catch the shenanigan's that McHale and crew were up to. How smart was he?

Cliff Arquette..aka Charlie Weaver from Toledo. Staple on Hollywood Squares. Smart.

Ed O'Neill....from Youngstown..aka Al Bundy from Married with Children, now on that other show where he has the young Latino wife with the big tits. How smart is that?

Joe E. Brown....from Toledo. Comedian in a lot of stuff....but, he was so dumb in Some Like it Hot that he didn't even know that the "girl" he wanted to marry was really a man (Jack Lemmon)

 

 

Of course, we have to give this to Youngstown: All the Warner Bros. came from Youngstown. About the biggest film and TV company out there...still to this day.

 

But then, Toledo had Danny Thomas....who was a top producer, as well as being an actor...and Philanthropist. Was instrumental in the creation of St. Jude's Hospital.

 

On the musical side of things:

 

Youngstown has Glass Harp and The Human Beinz.

Toledo has Tom Scholz, founder of Boston (born in Toledo), Crystal Bowersox, runnerup on American Idol. (should have won)

 

Toledo has Gene Kranz...famous as the voice of NASA during the Mercury/Gemini/Apollo flights.

Youngstown has Thomas Bopp.....one of the finders of the Hale-Bopp Comet.

 

Youngstown did have Clarence Darrow...he first practiced law in Youngstown.

Toledo has Kristina Kinnealy...who grew up in Toledo, but became the head of the government in New South Wales Australia, oddly.

 

And Youngstown has Ghoolie.

And Toledo has DeShone Kizer.

 

So, how is that Toledo vs. Youngstown contest going to come out?

[Westside Steve]

Ghoolie is from youngstown and hates the pittsburgh steelers. Kizer is from toledo and loves the michigan wolverines. As long as we are keeping score.

WSS

[Zombo]

 

1) OK, just me- do you like everyone you've ever met? (except when you're showing them properties?) I'm not enamored of his personality- and there was a report plenty of his ND teammates felt the same way.

 

 

You know his personality? OK ... a "report". Can we just judge him on what he does, and how he comes off, as a Brown? Give him a clean slate for chrissakes.

 

I even gave Johnny a clean slate ... took him about 6 months to trash it ... but I gave him one.

 

2) What I meant is- though "ideal size" is a plus, just being 6'4, 230 doesn't mean you're going to be a great NFL qb. Bortles is almost exactly the same size, so is Wee-done.

 

Well, that's just obvious. No one is saying he's going to be good just because he has good size ... no one. But does everyone in the NFL prefer good size over bad size if all else is equal ... Yes ... yes, they do.

3) As Tour mentioned, his completion % went down in 2016. If you want to say that's because his WRs had stone hands, it could be a legit argument.

 

I'm not saying anything about anything. I don't play Junior Scout. Hugh Jackson knows 100 times more about QBs than you, me and Tour combined, so I know he sees enough there to throw a second rounder at it, and that encourages me.

4) Of course, strong arm is a plus- it had better be accurate though, and know when to take some pace off the fastball- (Derek Anderson).

 

Browns fans act like Derek Anderson was some horrible nightmare. I notice Carolina didn't draft a backup QB again.

Just about everybody we brought in AFTER DA is out of the league and he's still cashing gamechecks, because just like left-handed relievers, strong-armed QBs are always an asset.

But Anderson was never the kind of prospect that Kizer was so I'm not sure why you are comparing him. Bret Favre had a strong arm and went in the second round ... should I compare him?

For sure, he's not going to get any love from the majority of the Cleveland fanbase unless and until he earns it by winning.

 

Sure. Same goes for Brock Cockwhistler and Kody Kessler and the spunky guy from Stanford. And everybody else.

I think you have a new career out there if you want it:

[Zombo]

I was just making a joke about comparing the fucker to ben rothlisberger.

But no hes not the quarterback I wanted. I don't think there really was a blue-chip prospect in this draft but Even if there was this guy's down the line.

He doesn't sound particularly stupid when he speaks and that's good. Don't really mind that hes arrogant. I just have a hard time burning a second round pick on somebody with no better record. And after spending the number two pick I think we will be stuck with him for a while and quite possibly pass on a real blue chip in eighteen. And it doesn't look like kesler is getting more than a season behind the swiss cheese line.

Who knows maybe coach jackson can turn him into the next superstar like he did with, well, nobody.

 

But hey, he is big

WSS

 

Dalton and Flacco are nobodies?

 

Nobodies 24 Browns 5

 

Zombo

--Dalton 9-3

--Flacco 15-2

[Tour2ma]

I mean, a stop watch goes a long way, chief.

 

Really...

 

Great example of the 2nd deadliest quadrant... Thinking you know what you don't know...

[jrb12711]

 

Consensus:

 

The odds are definitely against him, as his confidence was probably shaken and I don't like it when a QB's mental computer appears to be slow. Very difficult to speed that up (Weeden). The biggest unknown is whether his play last year was a result of poor coaching and subpar supporting cast. I do like how he scrambles for first downs and touchdowns, but many of these came from designed runs, and that won't work as much in the NFL.

 

+1 because while admittedly doing much less review of the guy I hit the same result. I simply put see a guy who has talent and makes it look good when the game is "easy" such as read-option or designed packages. I have the same (severe) doubt that the between the ears part just isn't there and the NFL ain't gonna change that, only going to expose it. We shall see though, as given the track record he'll probably be out there week 5 due to injuries.

[Westside Steve]

 

Dalton and Flacco are nobodies?

 

Nobodies 24 Browns 5

 

Zombo

--Dalton 9-3

--Flacco 15-2

Dude over the last few years every turd that lines up under center looks like y a 'f****** tittle against the Browns.

 

Dalton is nobody. He's s OK.

Marv lewis has a good team that would do well with any journeyman quarterback.

 

And just for the record I don't remember any six weeks of love affair with johnny or brady quinn. I think you are revising history.

And those guys were both consensus better players then Kizer.

 

But hell if you think comparisons to a future hall of famer are valid knock yourself out Po G jr.

 

?

WSS

[Zombo]

Dude over the last few years every turd that lines up under center looks like y a 'f****** tittle against the Browns.

 

Dalton is nobody. He's s OK.

Marv lewis has a good team that would do well with any journeyman quarterback.

 

And just for the record I don't remember any six weeks of love affair with johnny or brady quinn. I think you are revising history.

And those guys were both consensus better players then Kizer.

 

But hell if you think comparisons to a future hall of famer are valid knock yourself out Po G jr.

 

 

WSS

 

Dalton is 56-35 with five winning seasons and 22,000+ yards in six seasons. I'll take some of that "OK" for six years.

 

I totally welcomed both Quinn and Manziel to the Browns, and I welcome Kizer too.

 

I rooted for Quinn and Manziel until they showed their ass, then I called a spade a spade.

 

Not ready to call Kizer a spade yet, maybe get a rookie camp in him first.

 

When he gets punched in the mouth in the weight room, leaves his team to party and/or drops turds all over the field I'll be the first to call him out for it ... in the meantime, I'm rooting for a Cleveland Brown, you got a problem with that?

 

Zombo

[DieHardBrownsFan]

So you're calling a black QB a 'spade'?

[The Gipper]

Ghoolie is from youngstown and hates the pittsburgh steelers. Kizer is from toledo and loves the michigan wolverines. As long as we are keeping score.

WSS

Ghoolie loves/hates the Steelers. And Kizer? He went to Notre Dame...which had been a major Michidick rival. I don't know how much love he has for them. If he loved them, would he not have gone there?

Just curious where you heard that he was a fan of the furry rats.

[The Gipper]

But Anderson was never the kind of prospect that Kizer was so I'm not sure why you are comparing him. Bret Favre had a strong arm and went in the second round ... should I compare him?

 

Hopefully, yes, in a few years.

[The Gipper]

So you're calling a black QB a 'spade'?

[TopDawg31]

I'm with Z on this one, Kizer is now my QB and I will support him til my eyes tell me not too. Same with any Browns player. Root for the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

[Westside Steve]

 

Dalton is 56-35 with five winning seasons and 22,000+ yards in six seasons. I'll take some of that "OK" for six years.

 

I totally welcomed both Quinn and Manziel to the Browns, and I welcome Kizer too.

 

I rooted for Quinn and Manziel until they showed their ass, then I called a spade a spade.

 

Not ready to call Kizer a spade yet, maybe get a rookie camp in him first.

 

When he gets punched in the mouth in the weight room, leaves his team to party and/or drops turds all over the field I'll be the first to call him out for it ... in the meantime, I'm rooting for a Cleveland Brown, you got a problem with that?

 

Zombo

Dalton is on a very good team that doesn't seem to be able to turn the corner. I would guess the Josh mccown would do as well in Cincinnati.

WSS

[hoorta]

I'm with Z on this one, Kizer is now my QB and I will support him til my eyes tell me not too. Same with any Browns player. Root for the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

 

There's a difference between being a blind homer, and not believing what your eyes are telling you. Bias? You bet. So sorry, I'm not rolling out the welcome mat for Deshone in the same way I have for all the other picks. I'll let this play out- but Z is sticking his head in the sand if he thinks Kizer will have anything but a extremely short honeymoon period before the boo birds are out in force. In a lot of quarters, it wasn't a very popular pick. I would rather have had Webb or Dobbs later on, taken a CB in round 2.

[calfoxwc]

If I knew that Kizer coulf quickly read defensed, and showed huge leadership, I would have favored him over

Trubisky.

 

If Trub had fallen to where we picked Kizer, I would have picked Trub.

 

We'll see. I think he's going to be terrific. His seeing the field is a question.

We may be very happy as it gets answered.

[gumby73]

Fun with Flags? nope. Fun with Kizer's numbers..Kizer drafted #52,Osweiler #57....Kizer 6'4" Same as Weeden & Winston...Kizer 233lbs. closest Winston 231... Kizer 9 7/8" Hands matches Newton & Osweiler......Kizer's college completion rate in 15 of 63% matches Osweiler 1 season & Big Ben 2 seasons & outdoing Newton's worst season of 60.7%....For those (not) scoring at home on completion percentage. Some highs were Weeden 72.3..Kessler 69.7 Big Ben 69.1...Winston 66.9... Newton 66.1 & Osweiler 1 season 63.2...Kesser threw 88 TD's vrs Ben's 80 with only 19 picks in 3 college seasons. Cody & Brock should hold the Reins this season. My only opinion at this point on Kizer is that he will & should get his chance with the 1's in any pre-season game. I still think Kizer can move in a crumpling pocket better than Cody..Oh yea 40's..Kessler 4.89 matches Weeden. Kizer 4.83 matches Osweiler (not sure if this is a head-scratch-er or a Nutz scratch-er but it is only MAY)

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

There's a difference between being a blind homer, and not believing what your eyes are telling you. Bias? You bet. So sorry, I'm not rolling out the welcome mat for Deshone in the same way I have for all the other picks. I'll let this play out- but Z is sticking his head in the sand if he thinks Kizer will have anything but a extremely short honeymoon period before the boo birds are out in force. In a lot of quarters, it wasn't a very popular pick. I would rather have had Webb or Dobbs later on, taken a CB in round 2.

I think you're pretty mistaken on that. Most Browns fans everywhere except this black hole of a forum are pretty excited with the Kizer pick and rational about his potential, especially early on.

 

By far, this is the only place I've seen (on the internet and IRL) where Kizer is met with such unfounded vitriol from "fans".

 

Then again, this place isn't exactly on the cutting edge when it comes to rational discussion...

[Tour2ma]

I'm with Z on this one, Kizer is now my QB and I will support him til my eyes tell me not too. Same with any Browns player. Root for the name on the front of the jersey not the back.

 

Could not get there with RG3... or JFF... or Wheezy... or Brady Q... Never wished ill upon them, but never saw that they had a chance. So I, too, chided Z...

 

Kizer is different. Kizer has a chance. In my estimation a better chance than any of the above.

 

And, do you know what's cool? He's not our only QB "with a chance". Kess has a chance. Even Brock has a chance, if he can recover mentally from getting O'Brien'd down in Houston.

 

This is going to be fun for a change.

 

There's a difference between being a blind homer...

 

We all have our blind spots... yours is a big Polish kid from Mentor...

 

Then again, this place isn't exactly on the cutting edge when it comes to rational discussion...

 

Really?...

 

Regardless... it's still home...

[hoorta]

 

Could not get there with RG3... or JFF... or Wheezy... or Brady Q... Never wished ill upon them, but never saw that they had a chance. So I, too, chided Z...

 

Kizer is different. Kizer has a chance. In my estimation a better chance than any of the above.

 

And, do you know what's cool? He's not our only QB "with a chance". Kess has a chance. Even Brock has a chance, if he can recover mentally from getting O'Brien'd down in Houston.

 

This is going to be fun for a change.

 

We all have our blind spots... yours is a big Polish kid from Mentor...

 

Yup Tour Kizer's got a chance- in my book a faint chance, but what do I know? Obviously, TC doesn't read much of the comments on Cleveland.com. I'm not the only Curmudgeon who's less than impressed with Kizer. Not even the only one on this board. And regarding Mr. Biskit- you can take this to the bank- he would have been cut a lot more slack than Kizer ever will- simply because of the Cleveland connection.

 

Here's a little sampling of all the love Deshone's been getting.....

 

"Brady Quinn Version 2.0

If a QB puts on a Browns uniform all of a sudden there's fans that think he's a savior and all of sudden he'll be great even though he hasn't done much elsewhere. Keep Dreaming......This guy is a pretender. "

 

"Hue's ridiculous comparison of a 2nd-round draft pick to a 1st-ballot HOFer is as much a head-scratcher as his play calling last year."

 

"If Kizer couldn't "get er done" at the college level the odds are very slim he'll be that effective at this level either. The Franchise QB is not on the roster yet and the infamous list will keep growing."

 

"Here we go with making excuses for Kizer who is a STIFF!!! He's Brady Quinn II!!!"

 

"Not sure what you mean. I have literally never heard anyone complain about Kizer's lack of experience.

There is plenty to complain about - accuracy - losing - he played so bad he was benched."

 

 

[Tour2ma]

You're quoting the "Comment Section"?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

You're quoting the "Comment Section"?

He's gotta dig for scraps somewhere to support his argument

[The Gipper]

 

There's a difference between being a blind homer, and not believing what your eyes are telling you. Bias? You bet. So sorry, I'm not rolling out the welcome mat for Deshone in the same way I have for all the other picks. I'll let this play out- but Z is sticking his head in the sand if he thinks Kizer will have anything but a extremely short honeymoon period before the boo birds are out in force. In a lot of quarters, it wasn't a very popular pick. I would rather have had Webb or Dobbs later on, taken a CB in round 2.

Well, I would say that I roll out the welcome mat for Kizer every bit as much as I would have rolled it out for JMZ/Weeden/Quinn/Colt McCoy/Charlie Frye/Cody etc. etc.....any QB the Browns have.

In each of these cases you could say that someone would have preferred someone taken later. Goodness knows we should have take Carr over JMZ, Wilson over Weeden, Brady over Spergon, McNabb over Couch...and on and on and on.

But I would not treat Kizer any differently. EVERY QB that suits up for the Cleveland Browns these days is going to be greeted with a high degree of scrutiny and skepticism....for one very good reason:

 

[LondonBrown]

Jeez this thread is ridiculous. A lot of you must be employed NFL scouts judging by how definitive you can be about how ANY pick is going to turn out let alone this one.

[The Gipper]

Jeez this thread is ridiculous. A lot of you must be employed NFL scouts judging by how definitive you can be about how ANY pick is going to turn out let alone this one.

The Browns 2017 draft will surpass the record set by the Steelers 1974 draft: They will have 5 Hall of Famers come from this class!!!

 

Right?