Corey Coleman hurt again (don't draft 185 pound WRs in the 1st round)

[Mudfly]

1) For Coleman to also make an impact, I believe Kenny Britt will play a huge role. We need Britt to play well enough to command the opposition's #1 CB every game, so that Coleman can be matched up on statistically lesser talent.

 

This would replicate the advantage Coleman had last year with Pryor being the #1.....

 

2) We need him good to go for camp. And yes, OTA's and mandatory minicamp are important, but training camp is where you REALLY get into things.

 

Agreed.....missing camp last year(along with 2 preseason games) had to hurt his development and team chemistry. In fact, last year, HUE said Coleman probably performed poorly DUE TO LACK OF PRACTICE CAUSED BY HIS INJURY(S)......SO, that would be a concern now, considering he has practiced 2 days and has 2 injuries already....correct?

 

 

 

1) I'm glad you're giving him a chance Mud. There's a lot of guys that aren't based on last year's dumpster fire. Like I already told you - I understood where you were coming from.

 

Thanks.....I think people think Im bashing him, when Im just pointing to obvious concerns that have swirled around him since day one.....and SO FAR have proven to be legit concerns.....

 

2) I don't know how much I trust some of the catch rates when a guy could beat someone over the middle and the pass is late/behind him so he only barely touches it instead of catching it (sometimes this prevents an INT which gets the WR only credited for the drop).

 

The catch rates are pretty legit Fluges....and should be basically equal opportunities for WR's on the same team...same system....same QB's....etc. So, when one guys stands out from the crowd(either way)....then it probably has more to do with that guy, than it does anyone else....also, I think if it's a terrible pass, then it's not a drop.....

 

3) While the rookies only varied by 8% in catch rate, which of our rookie WRs missed 6 weeks due to a broken hand? The last game Coleman played before that injury he had 5 receptions for 104 yards and 2 TDs against Miami (a playoff caliber opponent) at least flashing some kind of big game ability I didn't see from any of the other rookie WRs.

 

He's the only one who missed 6 games(plus training camp....plus 1/2 of preseason....and now OTA's).....which is a HUGE concern..... Would also point out that, last year, they said the break was minor and no one even realized it was broken immediately.....so, it's not as if it hampered his performance or he was in some type of great pain or anything.....and an 8% variance is pretty big, especially considering those other rookies(at the top) had pretty low catch rates themselves.....42% not only is at the bottom of our corps....it's bottom of the league type of stuff.....

 

I will add.....in the ENTIRE LEAGUE.....there are only 2 WR's, with at least 50 targets, who have a lower catch percentage....only 2....out of hundredssssssssss

 

4) 3 years ago on the OBR - someone debated that while Wes Welker and TO were among the league leaders in receptions of a specified year, they showed a stat revealing both guys were also among the league leaders in drops.

 

First......a first round pick should have higher expectations than a UDFA or 3rd rounder.....dont you think?

 

TO had a career catch rate of 58% and 60%, as a rookie......Welker has a 71% career catch rate.....completely different level from 42 %

 

5) You brought up the Greg Little who led us in receptions but he also led us in drops the same year. If you had to guess, what do you think most of our fans remembered Greg Little most for? The 1 year he led us in receptions or how many passes he dropped throughout his time in Cleveland? There never was a next team he started for right?

 

Exactly....you are making my point for me....thanks!......Little was bashed for his drops, yet he caught more than our guy.....we hated him, yet he led us in yards and catches as a rookie, which our guy didnt.......he was healthy and missed zero time in his 3 years here, while our guy has already had 4 separate injuries in just over 1 season.....and Little flamed out of the league, yet Im supposed to "expect" Coleman to be great?

 

6) I don't advise anyone making too many conclusions about him from the 2016 data.

 

Can only draw conclusions on what HAS happened.....not what WILL happen......and I conclude that not much good has happened yet....

 

 

What concerns me also with Coleman, other than the injuries, is the fact I don't remember him being prolific with yards after the catch (YAC) last year. Now I admit that I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I really can't remember Coleman catching a pass and running with it, or making defenders miss and getting extra yards. Am I crazy? Does anybody else remember this?

 

Its a fact actually.....we had 2 players ranked inside the bottom 10 in the NFL.....Coleman(2.6 yac) and Pryor(2.5 yac).....With 2 of them there, it almost makes you wonder if it's Hues scheme(not getting them the ball in the right situations) over the players ability....if you think about it, those 2 guys didnt even average "one step" after the catch....so couldnt be much separation there, at all.....

 

I was, like you, waiting for that flash and burn that just never came.....

 

Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope that I am, but the "eye test" told me Coleman wasn't able to take a pass and turn it into something special. I don't expect it EVERY time he touches the ball, but I certainly expected more from him in terms of scaring the opposition with his ability to make people miss and take the ball down the field.

 

There are some fast dudes in the NFL.....you wont juke too many guys outta their shoes, which is easier in college

 

I remember some bad drops last year, but I'm sure most teams have those, and I'm pretty sure virtually every rookie has them too.

 

Yep.....all WR's will have some drops.....I think the difference isnt so much "drops" as compared to how many balls will you "win".....the great ones go get the ball and routinely catch balls that are thrown to difficult locations....any WR's can catch perfectly thrown balls....it's the tough catches that raise the bar....

[tiamat63]

Youtube Cory at Baylor..That's pretty much all Baylor ran for Cory with lesser quality defenders/tacklers imo..2 things I also noticed at Baltimore game last season #1. yes he got open but never saw the ball.#2.Baylor/Balt./Cinn. were the only plastic turf Cory has seen..Cory on tape or in person just seems quicker playing on his college turf than grass..strange but maybe true..

 

Most everyone is faster on turf than grass.

[PoeticG]

 

Beast. Just wait until phase 2.

[jiggins7919]

The broken hand really screwed him up, and I realize that. For arguments sake, if we extrapolated Coleman's numbers over 16 games, he would've had a very successful ROOKIE campaign. Without doing the math, I'm guessing around 625 yards and 5 TD's. Definitely not bad, but again, has to be healthy. The more worrisome aspect to his game was what I previously addressed, and that's his inability to do ANYTHING after the catch. Now, some of that maybe Hue, and some of that maybe the QB's, but the kid didn't have ANY electric catch and runs. None that I can think of, and that's a disappointment.

 

I seriously don't think we'll go after Maclin, but it'd be very nice. I keep reminding myself that we can't plug every hole in one offseason, but what burns me up is we drafted Coleman so early, and we were hoping that hole was somewhat plugged already. Add in the fact that we developed Pryor and he LEFT, and it feels like we did everything we could to create a solid position group only to be left with something...not good on paper. (never mind that we drafted FOUR rookie WR's last year, and I don't love any of them as of now)

 

This brings me back to cutting Barnidge. Why in the world would we do that? He wasn't THAT expensive, and he was reliable. Njoku has a chance to be special, but I'm betting it takes at least a year. It wouldn't surprise me to see Devalve have better numbers if he stays healthy. I really liked what I saw out of that guy.

[jrb12711]

And just as expected, Corey Coleman gets hurt again. We've all heard about the nagging hamstring, but now he has a "middle body" injury to pair with that.

 

This is exactly why you don't take tiny WRs in Round 1. You can always find quality slots late, and given how brittle they can be (especially Coleman) it doesn't make sense to invest premium assets in players like that.

 

Remember how the 2016 draft unfolded? Keep it in mind. I feel like this is going to sting as we head into this year:

 

15th overall: Corey Coleman

16th overall: Taylor Decker

17th overall: Keanu Neal

18th overall: Ryan Kelly

 

Keanu Neal and Ryan Kelly are already premium players at their positions, and Taylor Decker had a really solid rookie season as well. Will be interesting to see what happens, but even if we had picked Taylor Decker and then drafted a WR with the pick we used on Shon Coleman (Braxton Miller and Malcolm Mitchell were still available there), we are sitting pretty.

 

Or we take Keanu Neal and then instead of Jabrill Peppers this year, we trade down a few picks and take Marcus Williams to fill the FS void. Then we sign Stevie Johnson or Victor Cruz to compete in the slot with Rashard Higgins. But alas.

 

 

I sincerely hope the irony isn't lost on you that Taylor Decker is seriously hurt and may miss the entire season. By your same logic I guess we shouldn't draft big lineman in the first round either?

[jiggins7919]

If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.

 

We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.

 

Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.

[jrb12711]

If Aaron Decker can be signed at a good price, can anybody think of a reason why he wouldn't be a good fit for us? I don't see us getting Maclin, but maybe Decker is a solid contender to help stock up a weak position group. Especially now that we all know Coleman hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy, I think we almost HAVE to add a veteran of some caliber.

 

We added strength and skill to the OL, we've got some good running backs (in my opinion), and although we cut Barnidge, I still like our TE's somewhat because of Seth Devalve and our rookie. What we NEED to do is add some WR firepower to help our QB's. I could be mistaken, but I believe Decker is a solid route runner who has good hands. THAT'S what we need, right? We need to do everything in our power to help our QB's because that's where we're the weakest.

 

Hue Jackson made it seem like if it was the regular season, he would have Coleman out there. If that's true, I think it would be smart to have Coleman practice in minicamp or even limited practice to finish OTA's. Show the world that Coleman really is "ok", and that's he isn't a glass player. I'm not saying to run him full speed, but have him out there doing SOMETHING.

 

The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.

 

It's a tough argument to have because there's merits to both sides. I mean think of a dude like Brian Hartline whom we brought in there for a couple of years. What did he do to help move the organization forward other than take reps from other dudes (potentially)? Now, with that being said I certainly don't look at any of the dudes outside of Coleman and go "maybe he's the dude". But still, on a rebuilding team it's a conversation to have and if they feel that way (which I don't), you should nearly every time defer to playing the younger guys.

[tiamat63]

Is Aaron Decker related to Eric by chance?

[Tour2ma]

The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.

 

Bingo...

 

Have to add (again) that 2017 is not the year we are targeting to be competitive... We are not yet in the "business" of adding final piece(s) to make a last push to anything. That mode is at least one year, of more likely two years away. Then and only then might we add a Maclin or a Decker, be he Aaron or Eric.

 

2017 will be about continued evaluation of what we have and what we need with a side of learning how to win.

[jiggins7919]

Is Aaron Decker related to Eric by chance?

 

LOL. Sorry man. No clue who the hell that is.

[LondonBrown]

The biggest argument against adding ANY "veteran" player is that they are taking reps away from young guys with "potential". This reasoning is exactly why we let Barnidge go and will certainly let others go as well.

And it's the right way to build a team.

[Unsympathetic]

Another guy we'll probably let go who definitely has at least a couple good-to-great years left: DT/DE Desmond Bryant. High salary, questionable fit, Brantley and Meder both better today at the role Brantley will be asked to perform.

 

Trading him for a pick would be great.. Perhaps they'll keep him as a backup to both DT and DE? Could be, but at that salary I can't see happiness at the brain table.

[choco]

Sportrac has his cap hit this year at 4m, 3m base + 1m bonus. Hardly high salary...

 

Brantley hasn't taken a snap yet, and meder is a solid bottom rotation guy. Certainly not better than a healthy Dez.

[gumby73]

No need to stick the pitch-folk in Des.Bryant at all yet..Yes he turned 31 in Dec. but He's under contract this season.Desmond's,other body parts had a full year off also. Most importantly,imo Des is are most proven 4th DLman on roster. Feel lucky were not paying Des. Terrell Suggs money. Who at age 34 tore his Achilles in 15 than torn Bicep in 16. Meder,Cooper,Brantley,Stample,Ogunjobi & Holmes all bring something we have not brought to our D Front in years..Competition..Imo, Gregg Williams must raise the late game DL stamina of all our sub packages that falls on their face late in games.If Des Bryant can stay healthy thru camp let's not get Sheard stupid again..

[Mudfly]

 

You don't build a team by getting rid of guys who can play, to take chances on unknown rookies.

Correctomundo....my main bitch for 2016.....summarized into one sentence....

[choco]

LMAO...yeah, guys that can play...like whom? Fatass OL that don't move the needle? A flash in the pan FS? How about the smurf receivers? I'm so sure Gabriel would've had the same production without an OL, QB, or star receiver that he benefits from in ATL.

 

Oh shit...I forgot Kruger, witner, and dansby...so who those guys playing with now?

 

Y'all remind me of polian...strict football guys that are insulted by the new browns cause ya ain't got the horsepower to comprehend what's going on.

 

Editt to add: furthermore, keep klinging onto the 2016 off-season to grind your axe, cause it's basically a carbon fucking copy of this off-season, right? Whatcha gonna bitch about? Pryor?

 

Lame...such a waste of my time.

[Flugel]

 

They had players. Gordon,

 

You stayed up until after midnight to post that garbage?

 

Yeah, Gordon has been really helpful here since 2013. He's appeared in 5 games, scored 0 TDs and forgot the plays in half his reps. It's 2017 and he's still suspended. You got any more wisdom for us Oblivious Maximus?

[jiggins7919]

 

Youth is not a solution to building anything. It is a possible solution for finding players that can contribute. Known veterans are not a solution to anything, but a possible solution for finding players that can contribute.

 

People love to throw out euphemisms for THE ONE THINGS THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE......................but really the only thing that is important is making plays. A touchdown is not scored according to the age of the person crossing the goal line. A touchdown is a touchdown.

 

Browns fans are largely ignorant. They are ignorant about life, and ignorant about football. So many opinions here are based on what the sports media tells people to think. Save my over-the-top oft tongue-in-cheek flames to illustrate my points, not one fan here can argue my statement that going into 2017, the Browns have the least amount of proven playmakers of all 32 teams.

 

Now, one can argue about what they think will be....who they believe will step up, pan out, and finally gel, but reality is that these things are no more than bets on a Roulette wheel. Every team has the same odds of having diamonds in the rough step up and contribute. However, if you look at the successful teams, the bulk of the playmaking is done by older veterans who have been contributing consistently. Never, have I witnessed a team comprised heavily of youth and inexperience amount to jack shit.

 

The Browns haven't amassed assets, they have avoided assets and instead amassed more spins on the Roulette wheel.

 

Whatever the secrets are to building a successful team, getting rid of guys who can make plays for ones that you hope make plays, isn't just idiotic, it is self destructive.

 

The 2017 Browns will be the worst Browns franchise ever. hey will be worse than the 2016 vesrion.

 

This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.

 

The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?

 

If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.

[nickers]

This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.

 

The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?

 

If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.

Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"

[Unsympathetic]

Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"

 

That's fun, because I don't like unrealistic expectations..

[RoyceRolls]

It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.

[dawg2fan]

It's all relative. 4-12 isn't good, but it's sure as shit better than 1-15.

 

Also, we need to understand that this team will take incremental steps. Not going from awful to great. Lets give this team time and you will understand what the front office is accomplishing.

[browns52]

 

This board is a forum for people to express their opinions, and I respect yours. However, I completely disagree with it. Last year's team was virtually torn down to the nub, and we expunged many of our older players in favor of youth and affordability. We did that to acquire future assets and position ourselves to add a substantial amount of potential talent in 2017, which many agree, we executed. Not only that, but we have also positioned ourselves to do this AGAIN next year, which is no small miracle. Our front office said they'd be fools to think they can select talent THAT much better than anyone else, and the best way to increase their odds of locating valuable assets is to greatly increase the "number of swings they get at the plate." We did that for 2017, and we have done it again in 2018.

 

The only player we lost of consequence was Terrell Pryor, and that wasn't our fault at all. We added serious talent on the offensive line, our other lineman are getting healthy, and perhaps most importantly, we let Ray Horton go and added Gregg Williams. Williams has a Super Bowl ring and was a coach that other teams actually wanted. When was the last time we could say THAT? So knowing all of this, how could our team actually be worse than last year? Our QB situation isn't much better, if better at all, but it's also hard to say it's worse. We added the #1 talent in the draft, our defensive line has skill and depth, and our two starting linebackers are seriously talented. Where are we worse as a position group?

 

If you're angry about the state of the franchise, nobody could really blame you. I think our team could actually go 4-12 and it would be a FUN year. It would be fun because we'd get to see our young players develop. Maybe we see one of our QB's actually take hold of the offense and really establish himself as a starter in this league. I very much believe we'll be noticeably better at pressuring the QB, and I also believe our defense will be much better overall which will allow us to run the ball later in more games. Listen, I'm not saying we're going to be "good" this year, but I do believe we can have a fun season and have a losing record. And what's more important is we can add further assets in 2018 and continue to build our team from the ground up. For the first time in a LONG time, I can say I see the team's process, and I agree with it. It actually looks like we have a plan.

yikes, 4-12 is fun...I wonder what the fuckass owner would do if we won 4 games after seeing him celebrate our only win last yr like it was the super bowl...that's you....fucking 4-12 is fun eh....

[tiamat63]

Progress is fun.

 

To believe this team will just go from the cellar to the ceiling is beyond idiotic.

 

Best expect a season of 3-5 wins and, God willing, 2-3 margin increase following.

 

I'm not writing this year off but I am looking forward to the prospect of 2018 provided players develop and our draft picks continue to contribute.

 

Or as they say - Rome wasn't built in a day.

[Tour2ma]

Sorry but 4-12 is not My idea of "development"

 

What would be?

[jiggins7919]

 

The problem with your analysis, and opinion, is that it isn't based in reality. It isn't based on human nature, it isn't based on football, and it really contradicts life's lessons. Everything in your analysis is based either on euphemisms, folklore or wishful thinking. In no particular order.....

 

1 - A team cannot be built with youth and draft picks. It never has happened in the history of the NFL, it hasn't even been done anywhere else in life. You could not build a great orchestra with all new graduates. You surely couldn't build a great restaurant with all newbies. How about a great surgical team? Skyscraper construction team?

 

How is it that the Patriots remain the best team in football? They get less high picks than anyone.

 

2 - The other reason you cannot build a foundation on youth is that the diamond in the rough you find on the cheap today, is very likely not going to be on your team in 2 - 3 years. Likewise, the hit rate of drafting solid talent in later rounds is horrible. Having 3 times the amount of shit picks as anyone else doesn't give you a higher probability of finding great players. It gives you a higher probability of not knowing who the fuck can play.

 

3 - A Coach everyone wanted? WTF does that get you? EVERYONE wanted Holmgren ( I guaranteed he would fail, from the day they hired him). Everyone wanted Sewage and Crennel. We have plenty of fired players, coaches and execs that " EVERYONE " wanted.

 

Greg Williams is in over his head. His SB ring means nothing, as Holmgren's meant nothing. Very, very few coaches and executives are able to duplicate success they had with former teams, and Williams will not be one of them. His aggressive and careless style is a function of having a QB who can rip up the scoreboard should the defense get burned. He doesn't have that in Cleveland. His defense, by way of common sense, and by way of Hue Jackson's recipe will be a passive zone very similar to Hortons'.

 

4 - We don't have a QB ...................... and THAT you see, ends our conversation.

 

Enjoy your fantasy. Pretend that this is a different team with a different approach. However, when reality comes kicking you in the ballsack.....just be fair..................... don't pretend as if " WOW NOBODY SAW THIS".......give props where they are deserved. Don't give me this "nobody could have predicted this" bullshit dude. Just remember what I told you.

 

2 - 14 +/- 1 win

QB controversy by game 6, one that distracts the entire team

OL just as bad as the 2016 version

Hue Jackson will be fired

Garrett turns out to be Courtney Brown. Soft and injury prone

 

I fail to see how your opinion is based in reality and bolstered by facts. How is our OL just as bad as the 2016 version? I don't KNOW it will be better, but I do know we added more talent, and that's a fact. You also don't know Garrett will be Courtney Brown, or that Hue Jackson will be fired. Conversely, I don't know the opposite is true either, but Garrett was the consensus the #1 pick. You don't get to that point unless the majority of the football universe thinks you're not only good, but the best college player entering the NFL.

 

I'm not sure how you can say that no team has gotten better by getting younger either. Remember when the Raiders were one of the worst teams in football? What changed that? They added some young draft picks and a couple key veterans. They drafted Derek Carr in the second round, and when he, Khalil Mack, and Amari Cooper came into their own, they started winning games. Where was Kizer drafted? Second round, same as Carr. Mack wasn't number one, but he was pretty close. Very similar to our team. We added a veteran in Kenny Britt, and perhaps he can be the equivalent to what Crabtree provides. You don't get better by JUST adding youth, but it certainly helps your team sustain progress when the young guys turn out to be studs because you get them at a lower price, and they have more "peak years" to play because of their age.

 

I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm cool with that. Again, I respect your opinion and I'm not going to throw stones at you for having it. I happen to think that we're building our team the correct way, and we actually have some talent at key positions. Collins and Kirksey are a dynamic combination at linebacker, I feel (as do many others btw) that our OL will be very good, if not dominant, and we actually have two pass rushers that opposing teams will have to game plan for (again, my opinion). Are we a "complete team"? Hell no, not even close. I don't trust Corey Coleman yet, and I'm not sure any of our other bozos at receiver will step up. I also don't know about our QB's, and feel that we still need a ton of help there. I can say this, we're about due to strike gold, and perhaps Kizer is that guy. Maybe Brock of Cody plays better than we think. Teams get better all of the time, and we're setting ourselves up the correct way. We are adding assets without sacrificing our future, and it's going to be a blast NEXT year when we get to use our boatload of draft picks again. I really think the Texans' first and second rounders we possess will end up being higher than many believe. I don't see them going to the playoffs again, and I think it's quite possible they only win about 5 games. That would give us about the #8 pick in the draft, and the early corresponding second round pick.

 

I think we're doing pretty well. We can go back and forth, and that's what this board is for, but the fact remains we obviously won't know a thing until September.

[The Gipper]

Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.

But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.

 

Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know

Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.

 

But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:

 

I suck

You suck

He sucks

She sucks

It sucks

We suck

They suck.

 

Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.

 

Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.

[hoorta]

Better to have some young talent than no talent at all. As to Ghoolie's point that you cannot get better just on young talent. Sure....not JUST on young talent....not JUST on 2d year players and rookies.

But having a lot of young talent is what bring optimism. And the Browns have some young "veteran talent"...i.e. guys entering their 3d year or more: Shelton, Kirksey, Duke Johnson, Bitonio, Crowell. They have some wiley veterans that you need: JT, Haden, Tretter, Zeitler.

 

Do all these guys have the talent to succeed as combined units? Don't know

Do they have the coaching they need to succeed? Don't know.

 

But I am not going to go through the Ghoolie Pronoun litany:

 

I suck

You suck

He sucks

She sucks

It sucks

We suck

They suck.

 

Some of these pronouns.....when combined with proper names are not all going to suck...and hopefully soon none of them will.

 

Look....Ghoolie thinks the Browns are always going to suck. There is only one team that is ALWAYS going to suck: The Pittsburgh Steelers (and that has nothing to do with their W/L record....they are just always going to suck ass no matter what.

 

Yeah- that Steeler dynasty in the 70s was ALL based on drafting young talent- and letting it mature. Bradshaw, Harris, Mean Joe Greene, and drafting 4 HOFers in one year (Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and dime a dozen OL Webster) sure didn't hurt either.

[RoyceRolls]

The Seahawks went to 2 Super Bowls by drafting well and letting that young talent grow together. The good problem to have is to draft so well that you can't afford to keep the team together after 4-5 years.

[VikingDawg]

Yeah- that Steeler dynasty in the 70s was ALL based on drafting young talent- and letting it mature. Bradshaw, Harris, Mean Joe Greene, and drafting 4 HOFers in one year (Swann, Lambert, Stallworth, and dime a dozen OL Webster) sure didn't hurt either.

Actually those drafts looked like a joke till Cheat Noll started juicing the hell out of all his players.