The Gipper Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 The thing is, if you go look at, lets say the top 10, top 20 mock drafts, you will see that at the very least they have all the QB's going in different orders. At this point I have seen Watson, Kizer, Allen, Trubisky and Mahomes going anywhere from the top 5 to the 3rd round. That isn't to say most mocks don't have 2 or 3 going in the top half of the draft, but most are not in agreement who is the #1 guy is. Normally you might see people talking about 2 QB's who might be #1, but this year it seems that there is 4 or 5 guys. I have seen almost none that do not have MT in the Top 5. I was on the Walterfootball draft database, which has like 100 mocks on it. and like 90-95% had him in Top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Here's a thought: It's clear that Cody Kessler was an analytics pick, and Hue said 'trust me' to take some heat off the FO.. I don't see how analytics would point remotely towards a QB who has only played 13 games in college (Trubisky) The only 'top' QB analytics would really point to is Watson Speculation at best. We don't know what metrics our analytics department deems as monikers of NFL success. There's a whole heap of metrics that Kessler bested Wentz in, starting experience is simply one of them. Completion percentage, TD:INT ratio, QB rating - Kessler surpassed Wentz in all three. And those are simply base level stats, we have no idea what our analytics dept. is looking at. Analytics could very well point to starting experience being a relatively low indicator of NFL success across the board. Further, our FO didn't choose Kessler over Wentz. They chose Corey Coleman, Cody Kessler, Ricardo Louis, Derrick Kindred, Spencer Drango, Jordan Payton, a 2018 first round pick and a 2018 second round pick over Wentz. Every single one of those players and picks was netted from the Philly trade in some fashion. Analytics likely points to 8 players > 1 player for a team in the first stage of their reboot. It has nothing to do with what they'll do this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Further, our FO didn't choose Kessler over Wentz. They chose Corey Coleman, Cody Kessler, Ricardo Louis, Derrick Kindred, Spencer Drango, Jordan Payton, a 2018 first round pick and a 2018 second round pick over Wentz. Every single one of those players and picks was netted from the Philly trade in some fashion. Analytics likely points to 8 players > 1 player for a team in the first stage of their reboot. It has nothing to do with what they'll do this year. I think that's exactly how it was looked at. 8 players > 1 player on what is going to be a shitty rebuilding team anyways. Wentz isn't Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. The jury is still out if hes even Oliver Luck or Cooper Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 But, you know, I don't think the Browns are in the position to take a chicken shit approach to this thing. "Well...lets take a DE, because if he fails, it won't be as bad as if our QB choice fails". That seems to be a lot of what I am hearing. Chicken Shit. Only because, as usual, you are not listening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 But, you know, I don't think the Browns are in the position to take a chicken shit approach to this thing. "Well...lets take a DE, because if he fails, it won't be as bad as if our QB choice fails". That seems to be a lot of what I am hearing. Chicken Shit. Where was Tannehill drafted? Something like 10 overall? At this point in his career, I would take a Tannahill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Where was Tannehill drafted? Something like 10 overall? At this point in his career, I would take a Tannahill. #8 overall... a little surprising, but nothing compared to JAX reach for Bortles at #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Where was Tannehill drafted? Something like 10 overall? At this point in his career, I would take a Tannahill.Tannahil isn't going anywhere. Ya lets get a qb! I just hope he's not another Tim Couch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Mitch's Bitches Gays for Garrett Allen's Assholes Debbie (Trade) Downers Garappahomos Are we missing anybody so far? Zombo Hooker's Hookers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Tannahil isn't going anywhere. Ya lets get a qb! I just hope he's not another Tim Couch. Well what I'm saying is a Tannehill type. Average to above average starter. Honestly I would take someone with a similar level of play at #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I won't comment on whether or not Trubisky is worth a first or 12th pick because the Browns are going to trade their #1 pick for a bunch of projects again. If that's their intention than I would rather have a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I won't comment on whether or not Trubisky is worth a first or 12th pick because the Browns are going to trade their #1 pick for a bunch of projects again. If that's their intention than I would rather have a QB. If the Browns trade out of the #1 spot and load up on a dozen practice squad players, I'm going to go ballistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Only because, as usual, you are not listening... Right, I am reading, not listening. I get it, you have YOUR sights set on some guy, just like I have my sights set on some guy. You think your guy is the next coming of Bruce Smith perhaps.....he may be the shit, but I think my guy is the equal shit...the next coming of Aaron Rodgers. And Its just that my guy does fit a more vital and needed role on this team. And what I AM hearing is fear. Fear that if we take a QB, he may fail that he is the next Joey Harrington, not the next Aaron Rodgers. Well, that fear goes both ways. My evaluation of your guy isn't any better than your evaluation of my guy. I fear that he is the next Aaron Curry or Aundray Bruce, and those fears are just as valid...and just as plausible as your fears. But I say: take the risk on the more vital role/need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 #8 overall... a little surprising, but nothing compared to JAX reach for Bortles at #3. Not considered a reach at the time, at all. Tannehill considered more of a reach at #8. They are only "reaches" because they haven't quite live up to expectations. Everything is hind sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Hooker's Hookers? Hooker's Hos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I won't comment on whether or not Trubisky is worth a first or 12th pick because the Browns are going to trade their #1 pick for a bunch of projects again. If that's their intention than I would rather have a QB. Oi! Sure, it could happen....given these guys proclivities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 But, you know, I don't think the Browns are in the position to take a chicken shit approach to this thing. "Well...lets take a DE, because if he fails, it won't be as bad as if our QB choice fails". That seems to be a lot of what I am hearing. Chicken Shit. As was mentioned- just taking a defensive player at #1 is no guarantee his going to live up to that lofty draft spot either. Here's a refresher from Wiki about a guy who got as much hype as Garrett is getting. "Dan Wilkinson was regarded as "one of the four players who rank well above the others in this draft". In workouts prior to the draft, Wilkinson weighed in at 315 pounds, bench-pressed 225 pounds 34 times and ran a remarkably fast 40 in 4.72 seconds. "Wilkinson could be a once-in-10-years player," said Billy Devaney then the Chargers director of player personnel. Also described as "maybe the best defensive-line prospect since Reggie White (1985 draft)," Wilkinson drew a lot of interest from around the league. Several teams were willing to trade with the Bengals for the No. 1 draft pick, including the Patriots, who reportedly offered their first-round pick (4th overall), plus several players including offensive guard Eugene Chung (their first-round choice in 1992), and the Cardinals, who offered their pick plus running back Garrison Hearst (their 1993 first-rounder). Eventually, the Bengals decided to keep the pick," Really, if you have a qb bust at #12, is that any worse than having one bust at #1? We've had that cursed #22 "value" qb pick X3 put us in the dumpster for over 10 years. The Browns are in a different situation in that they have TWO first round picks this year. Just don't mess up on both of them. I disagree with you Gip in that I feel having Courtney "sure thing" Brown flop hurt just as badly as Couch not living up to his potential. BTW beat you to the chickenshit term in this thread. Another Devil's advocate thing to think about- let's say Garrett or Allen do live up to JJ Watt standards. When they come off their rookie deals they're going to want cap busting Ndamukong Suh money. I'd rather see that $25 million a year go to our franchise qb. Well what I'm saying is a Tannehill type. Average to above average starter. Honestly I would take someone with a similar level of play at #12. LOL, when's the last time the Browns had a Tannehill level starter for multiple years? Bernie? Before that, Sipe? Remember DePodesta's ill advised comment? "We passed on Wentz because we didn't think he had top 15 qb potential." Tannehill was around 12th this year- depending on how you want to crunch the stats. He got the Fish to the playoffs- it's been so long, I have trouble remembering the details the last time the Browns got there. If you're convinced the guy is the QBOTF- you don't hesitate, you walk up to the podium and hand in the card #1 overall. Yeah- even with Garrett and Allen on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATENEARS Posted January 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Mitch's Bitches Gays for Garrett Allen's Assholes Debbie (Trade) Downers Garappahomos Are we missing anybody so far? Zombo I think I'm a Debbie Downer (again) this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Mitch's Bitches Gays for Garrett Allen's Assholes Debbie (Trade) Downers Garappahomos Are we missing anybody so far? Zombo What about the Mahomos? Didn't you mention that last week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Mangum's Magnums ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Hooker's Hos. Hooker's Pimps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it. I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Just wondering, since quarterbacks are usually overvalued rightly or wrongly what would have happened if for the last 12 years we had only drafted the BPA regardless of position? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do. Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Honestly I think that with the firing of Horton and the hiring of Williams, the decision has already been made to fix this defense first. It's too close to becoming a great one not to pour those resources into exactly that. People want to see a lot more wins and that strategy will produce them quicker than some project at QB who gets hammered out of play by mid-season. This year has proven that we don't keep QB's healthy. And we just started using those defensive "chips" with our mid-season deal with NE. To me that was the handwriting on the wall which was predictive of the coaching move and likely the coming draft as well. I can agree with them fixing the defense first, but after last nights game, and with all the talk about Trubisky, I feel more and more confident that they done take a QB at either #1 or #12 and spend 2-3 of the rest of the picks on defense. However I do feel if they go mostly defense in the first two rounds, they WILL have to sign at least 1-2 OL in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Another thing of note, I read that Watson is likely to be invited to the Senior Bowl. They changed the rules to allow 4 year juniors who who have graduated and declare for the draft early to take part. Even though Watson is only a 3 year player, he has graduated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbluhm86 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 That's how you judge a prospect. How he does in big games. Quinn for instance failed in every big game he played in. Trubisky is the cream of the crop and he is worth #1 #1. If the Browns pass on this kid they will live to regret it. Weren't you the one who was slobbin' on Paxton Lynch's knob in the months leading up to the draft last year? I heard he's really tearing it up in Denver this year, so it looks like the Browns missed out on another one of your sure-thing prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm gonna agree on this. BUT Hue is coaching the senior bowl. Phil Sewage is inviting Watson...And not the IBM Watson. Hue will cream his panties over and over falling in love with Watson and talk the FO into picking him number one. That's just what the Browns always seem to do. Ha, Savage getting retribution on the Browns for firing him. If they invite Watson, they should invite Mitch too, as he's graduated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 It's such a tough place to be in when you're the Browns. You're in position to draft a VERY highly rated edge rusher, a severe position of need, BUT...you're also in position to get whichever QB you prefer (THE position of need). Something tells me this will be an agonizing decision. It's further difficult because we didn't really make ANY progress in determining our QB last year. None. Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation. Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'. Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons. Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade. I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvcanedy Posted January 10, 2017 Report Share Posted January 10, 2017 Well, maybe it's splitting hairs by me but I do think they learned about the QB situation. Kessler is a keeper, a decent backup with room to grow. McCown has worth but can't stay healthy, so I'd keep him on as a QB coach. Part ways with RG3 and draft a youngin'. Which youngin'? I honestly don't know, so many QB prospects fail in the NFL. The FO needs to determine which QB is worthy in this draft, and pick him at #1. An edge rusher isn't going to put the Browns into the elite class. Watt & Clowney (I know they haven't been healthy) have lead the Texans to fantastic 9-7 seasons. Yes, our D was a sieve most of the season. Remember though, Desmond Bryant is returning, Haden should be healthy, and they will seek help at safety. We all wanted Horton gone, and Williams should be an upgrade. I'm favoring drafting for a better offense. Get the best QB and let's roll. I fear "Haden will be healthy" is no longer something that has a positive impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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