hoorta Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think he has...the Lakers were a pretty good team. Jordan outshines LeBron in every imaginable way. No he dosen't Michael Jordan was 6-0 in the NBA finals Kobe Bryant is 5-2 Magic Johnson was 5-4 Larry Bird 3-2 ...and at the bottom is LeBron at 2-4. Not a finals record you would expect from a superstar. Not saying Jordan doesn't belong in the conversation as the greatest ever- but Le Bron has lost two of those finals backed up by essentially NOBODY. Let's look down the roster of the losing Cavs team this year. Delly- UFA STARTING against the league MVP. New York loved JR s so much- they forced the Cavs to take him off their hands if they wanted Shumpert. Subtracting Le Bron and JR's two garbage time 3s, the Cavs went 2-14 from downtown in game 6. I suppose that's all on Le Bron. A real recipe to win a game. If all you want to do is count Rings- then you have to say by the same logic Joe Montana was the greatest quarterback of all time. Actually that honor belongs to Otto Graham, who played in the equivalent of 10 straight Super Bowls. FWIW, LBJ has already passed Jordan in career assists, he'll pass him next year in rebounds, and I have no doubt he'll go by him in points. I did a little previous calculation- it's not out of the question Le Bron could wind up on the top of the scoring heap to boot- depending on how long he decides to play. In case you forgot already- LBJ just put up the highest points\rebounds\assists numbers EVER in a finals- against the #1 rated defensive team in the NBA. One thing for certain- he's not hanging 'em up until he wins a Championship in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I won't waste my or your time by trying to determine whether LBJ is better than Michael, or not. Both will go down among the greatest to ever play the game. That is good enough for me. I will say one thing about LBJ, though. His Herculean effort to bring his team to victory reminds me of few similar instances - at the COLLEGE basketball level. One can point to Danny Manning, Larry Bird, Kemba Walker and Shabazz Napier as players who put their respective teams on their shoulders and carried them to ultimate victory (Bird, of course, fell one game short). However, they were playing against college kids - not professional basketball players. This fact, alone, will go down as one of the - if not THE - finest individual efforts in the history of the NBA. Among the greatest players in the world. Maybe in all of sports, not just the NBA. Remarkable performance in the face of adversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think he has...the Lakers were a pretty good team. They were without Kareem at that point....but still had Magic and Worthy.....arguable. Jordan outshines LeBron in every imaginable way. ONLY in ONE single way, actually. Michael Jordan was 6-0 in the NBA finals Kobe Bryant is 5-2 Magic Johnson was 5-4 Larry Bird 3-2 ...and at the bottom is LeBron at 2-4. Yea, with teams not nearly with the supporting cast as the Bulls teams had for Jordan...or that any of those other players had....in case you hadn't noticed both Pippin and Rodman are HOF players....at this point no one would say that Irving and Love are HOF (and LeBron didn't have Irving and Love)...and with far superior competition overall against him. Not a finals record you would expect from a superstar. Actually, certainly it is.......look at Wilt Chamberlain's record in Finals.....do you claim that he was not a Superstar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 Not saying Jordan doesn't belong in the conversation as the greatest ever- but Le Bron has lost two of those finals backed up by essentially NOBODY. Let's look down the roster of the losing Cavs team this year. Delly- UFA STARTING against the league MVP. New York loved JR s so much- they forced the Cavs to take him off their hands if they wanted Shumpert. Subtracting Le Bron and JR's two garbage time 3s, the Cavs went 2-14 from downtown in game 6. I suppose that's all on Le Bron. A real recipe to win a game. If all you want to do is count Rings- then you have to say by the same logic Joe Montana was the greatest quarterback of all time. Actually that honor belongs to Otto Graham, who played in the equivalent of 10 straight Super Bowls. FWIW, LBJ has already passed Jordan in career assists, he'll pass him next year in rebounds, and I have no doubt he'll go by him in points. I did a little previous calculation- it's not out of the question Le Bron could wind up on the top of the scoring heap to boot- depending on how long he decides to play. In case you forgot already- LBJ just put up the highest points\rebounds\assists numbers EVER in a finals- against the #1 rated defensive team in the NBA. One thing for certain- he's not hanging 'em up until he wins a Championship in Cleveland. If you just go by championships won then Jordan is only about half as good as Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, KC Jones, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinshon, Satch Sanders, Robert Horry. Kareem and Scottie Pippin have just as many titles. I think that without Pippin there next to him, Jordan's record in the Finals is about the same as LeBron's. Even before LeBron ever stepped onto the stage, in my personal rankings of the best player ever I had him only 4th or 5th. I had Russell, Magic, Wilt, and Kareem over him. Right here, today, with everyone of those players in their prime, I would choose those 4 over Jordan...and probably LeBron as well. So at best I have Jordan #5 best overall.....and probably #6 with LBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 If you just go by championships won then Jordan is only about half as good as Bill Russell, Bob Cousy, KC Jones, Sam Jones, John Havlicek, Tom Heinshon, Satch Sanders, Robert Horry. Kareem and Scottie Pippin have just as many titles. I think that without Pippin there next to him, Jordan's record in the Finals is about the same as LeBron's. Even before LeBron ever stepped onto the stage, in my personal rankings of the best player ever I had him only 4th or 5th. I had Russell, Magic, Wilt, and Kareem over him. Right here, today, with everyone of those players in their prime, I would choose those 4 over Jordan...and probably LeBron as well. So at best I have Jordan #5 best overall.....and probably #6 with LBJ. Let's hope we can keep everybody healthy next year. I think if Love and Irving had been able to play in the Finals- we beat Golden State this year. Heck, we almost pulled out game one minus Love. So JR wants to try FA- he's going to find out he's not as valuable as he thinks he is. If you want $$$ over a Championship- adios. The Guy is too streaky. To win it all in 2016 the Cavs need to replace the geriatric bench (Miller, Marion & Perkins) with better players. James Jones has shown in limited finals minutes he's not yet a total stiff. I have to wonder if Shumpert's bum shoulder affected his shooting against GS. What the Cavs REALLY need is a tall #2 that can score consistently, and play defense. Easier said than done. But with assistant GM Le Bron now in a "come on down and win a championship with me" mode- something he wasn't in his first go around- anything is possible. Need I add keeping rebounding machine Thompson on the roster is imperative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Let's hope we can keep everybody healthy next year. I think if Love and Irving had been able to play in the Finals- we beat Golden State this year. Heck, we almost pulled out game one minus Love. So JR wants to try FA- he's going to find out he's not as valuable as he thinks he is. If you want $$$ over a Championship- adios. The Guy is too streaky. To win it all in 2016 the Cavs need to replace the geriatric bench (Miller, Marion & Perkins) with better players. James Jones has shown in limited finals minutes he's not yet a total stiff. I have to wonder if Shumpert's bum shoulder affected his shooting against GS. What the Cavs REALLY need is a tall #2 that can score consistently, and play defense. Easier said than done. But with assistant GM Le Bron now in a "come on down and win a championship with me" mode- something he wasn't in his first go around- anything is possible. Need I add keeping rebounding machine Thompson on the roster is imperative. To get that #2 the question is: who is available, and would the Cavs have the cap room to sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StinkHole Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not saying Jordan doesn't belong in the conversation as the greatest ever- but Le Bron has lost two of those finals backed up by essentially NOBODY. Let's look down the roster of the losing Cavs team this year. Delly- UFA STARTING against the league MVP. New York loved JR s so much- they forced the Cavs to take him off their hands if they wanted Shumpert. Subtracting Le Bron and JR's two garbage time 3s, the Cavs went 2-14 from downtown in game 6. I suppose that's all on Le Bron. A real recipe to win a game. If all you want to do is count Rings- then you have to say by the same logic Joe Montana was the greatest quarterback of all time. Actually that honor belongs to Otto Graham, who played in the equivalent of 10 straight Super Bowls. FWIW, LBJ has already passed Jordan in career assists, he'll pass him next year in rebounds, and I have no doubt he'll go by him in points. I did a little previous calculation- it's not out of the question Le Bron could wind up on the top of the scoring heap to boot- depending on how long he decides to play. In case you forgot already- LBJ just put up the highest points\rebounds\assists numbers EVER in a finals- against the #1 rated defensive team in the NBA. One thing for certain- he's not hanging 'em up until he wins a Championship in Cleveland. Other than the amusing Otto Graham thing, everything you say seems valid to me. Since I'm no big fan of basketball I can only go by what I read. Is it only about Cleveland hate? I'm wondering if LeBron was playing anywhere else other than Cleveland, would he be undergoing the same scrutiny from writers like these... Lebron greatest loser ever... http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-james-may-go-down-as-the-greatest-loser-ever/ Lebron, legacy fades with each loss... http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-james-legacy-loser-nba-finals-two-titles-mvp Lebron, 5 reasons he's not the greatest.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tyree-rush/5-reasons-why-lebron-jame_b_7607656.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I don't care if he goes down as the greatest or not. All I want is for him to bring the trophy home to cleveland. It has to be him. The story is too perfect for it to be anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cysko Kid Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 He's the greatest of his generation and that's all you can ask of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Other than the amusing Otto Graham thing, everything you say seems valid to me. Otto Graham won 7 championships. Name any single professional QB that has won as many. Since I'm no big fan of basketball I can only go by what I read. Is it only about Cleveland hate? I'm wondering if LeBron was playing anywhere else other than Cleveland, would he be undergoing the same scrutiny from writers like these... Probably Cleveland has nothing to do with it. Lebron greatest loser ever... http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-james-may-go-down-as-the-greatest-loser-ever/ Six Finals appearances....and probably not done. And a couple with really no help....I will take a loser like that every day. Lebron, legacy fades with each loss... http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-james-legacy-loser-nba-finals-two-titles-mvp No legacy exists while a player is still in the prime of his career. Wait until he retires to talk about legacies. Lebron, 5 reasons he's not the greatest.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tyree-rush/5-reasons-why-lebron-jame_b_7607656.html Except, he probably is the greatest in terms of being the most versatile player ever just about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Is it only about Cleveland hate? I'm wondering if LeBron was playing anywhere else other than Cleveland, would he be undergoing the same scrutiny from writers like these... Lebron greatest loser ever... http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-james-may-go-down-as-the-greatest-loser-ever/ Lebron, legacy fades with each loss... http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-james-legacy-loser-nba-finals-two-titles-mvp Lebron, 5 reasons he's not the greatest.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tyree-rush/5-reasons-why-lebron-jame_b_7607656.html He'd get the same grief regardless where he played. Everybody loves a winner and if you lose you're a bum. Was Jim Kelly a big loser because he lost 4 Super Bowls? So if you want to believe those articles- I'm not going to waste my time reading them) Then I suppose you would have to consider Karl Malone (even though he's #2 in all time scoring & had HOFer John Stockton as his point guard), Patrick Ewing, & Charles Barkley even bigger losers- as none of them despite their greatness (HOFers all) ever won a title. BTW- I would bet the ranch IF Le Bron had stayed in Miami, they would have made the Finals, and had the same result- losing to Golden State. You would have seen the same crap posted about Le Bron. BTW, Le Bron isn't Jordan- the closest comparisons would be to Oscar Robertson and Elgin Baylor- and I'd bet money none of those guys who wrote those articles ever saw them play. And Baylor couldn't win a Championship even paired with another (LOL all time bum) Wilt Chamberlain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.