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Terrelle Pryor Claimed By Browns


MLD Woody

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Didn't basically everyone just run Manziel through the wringer for being "stupid"? It's certainly different to see someone here say the words "Manziel" and "smarts" in the same sentence...even if it isn't true.

 

I wouldn't consider posting short video clips of OTA drills to be stupid, I'd consider it to be a lapse in judgment and an overreaction by whatever "team source" was quoted in the article (read: an equipment manager).

 

I don't think there is evidence of either of those that you claim. Pryor's NFL stats are bad, but Manziel's are worse. Pryor's off-field choice to tweet those videos was stupid, but Manziel has made monumentally worse decisions in his one year in the NFL (and then a much, much smarter decision to enter rehab). Manziel hasn't exhibited anything that makes me think he's any better of an NFL QB prospect than Pryor.

 

Regardless of who's better, Pryor has proven that he isn't a good NFL QB and he'll be getting a shot at WR - which could be a good fit for his athleticism. Manziel, on the other hand, has no other position to fall back on.

 

You don't think Manziel is a sharp guy? I do.

 

You don't think Pryor is not so smart? I do.

 

You can tell just by listening to them talk. Manziel has done a lot of things that 21 year guys with addiction problems tend to do, but I don't know anybody accusing him of being dumb, the guy seems pretty quick and articulate actually.

 

I'm not a big wonderlic guy but Manziel had a 32 and Pryor had a 7 ... that's got to tell you something.

 

If I'm looking at them both as prospects out of college, I'd say Manziel is more cerebral and a better passer in general, which probably accounts for where they were drafted.

 

Zombo

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You don't think Manziel is a sharp guy? I do.

 

You don't think Pryor is not so smart? I do.

 

You can tell just by listening to them talk. Manziel has done a lot of things that 21 year guys with addiction problems tend to do, but I don't know anybody accusing him of being dumb, the guy seems pretty quick and articulate actually.

 

I'm not a big wonderlic guy but Manziel had a 32 and Pryor had a 7 ... that's got to tell you something.

 

If I'm looking at them both as prospects out of college, I'd say Manziel is more cerebral and a better passer in general, which probably accounts for where they were drafted.

 

Zombo

Wonderlic is a decent measure of knowledge, not so much mental acuity. Unfortunately, mental acuity, not knowledge, is much, much more important to an NFL QB.

 

For the record, Pryor took the test the next day and scored a 22. I have a feeling his 7 was more along the lines of "why the fuck should I have to do this?" than "I'm too dumb to understand".

 

I think Manziel is quite sharp, actually. He's eloquent enough to stand in front of cameras and dig himself out of the holes he's dug himself and make me still like him...that's saying something.

 

I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.

 

I could find about 5 examples or posters calling Manziel stupid within the last 6 months or so. I know that because I already did the search. The point is, knowledge is relative and hard to infer from press conferences and language. Nor does it equate NFL success. Sharpness, concentration, flexibility - those are much more influential in a player's growth.

 

As for their draft position, Pryor would have likely been a second round pick had he not been suspended and declared for the normal draft; once QB's start rolling off the board teams get all antsy in their pantsy and take guys where they shouldn't go (see: Weeden, Brandon). Not as high as Manziel, but not nearly a giant differential in placement.

 

All things equal, I'd probably rate Manziel higher than Pryor based solely off of their college production, but Pryor is certainly right behind him based off of measurables, potential and athletic ability.

 

Unfortunately, I think that Manziel's career may be similar to Pryor's, when all is said and done.

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I could find about 5 examples or posters calling Manziel stupid within the last 6 months or so. I know that because I already did the search.

 

stupid as in not knowing how to be in 'public' life since being drafted by the browns? oh, i'm sure i've said that.

 

smart as in going to the best schools and actually not being a dummy in the books, knowing how to market himself and get drafted in the first round?

 

yeah he's all that.

 

now can both manziel and/or pryor maintain a starting position in the nfl for a period of time lasting longer than 4 yrs.?

 

doubt it. but if i were to bet manziel has a better chance NOW than pryor cuz we've seen what he can do…….

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stupid as in not knowing how to be in 'public' life since being drafted by the browns? oh, i'm sure i've said that.

 

smart as in going to the best schools and actually not being a dummy in the books, knowing how to market himself and get drafted in the first round?

 

yeah he's all that.

 

now can both manziel and/or pryor maintain a starting position in the nfl for a period of time lasting longer than 4 yrs.?

 

doubt it. but if i were to bet manziel has a better chance NOW than pryor cuz we've seen what he can do…….

 

Well, yeah. But that's not what the discussion was. Nor is Pryor going to be gunning for Manziel's job.

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Regardless of who's better, Pryor has proven that he isn't a good NFL QB and he'll be getting a shot at WR - which could be a good fit for his athleticism. Manziel, on the other hand, has no other position to fall back on.

 

 

Waterboy?

The waterboy was a hell of a LB. I don't see JM excelling there.

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Benji and Moore should definitely be gone. Jennings and Cone to PS, maybe?

 

WR- Bowe, Hartline, Mayle, Hawkins, Gabriel, Pryor

TE - Barnidge, Pryor, Housler, Telfer

 

Pryor is the only one of any of those guys who could conceivably be effective at both WR and TE. That's why I see him staying. Plus the benefit of being an emergency QB as well as a 2 pt. conversion package player.

TE- Dray, Barney, Housler, M. Johnson and Bibbs. Telfer (IR/squad). 3 game active. Pryor is 15-20 lbs. under weight to play TE and not many old QB's love to block. WR is his best shot and Tabor is loving Rabbit (Benji) and was the go to guy in Red Zone. Let the battles begin in Camp. ST kick holder is still open for Pryor. Take the over 53 on Pryor IMO.

 

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He'll make through training camp and most of preseason. Then it comes down to what he's learned and who's banged up early. If he does make it we can expect some end around with the option to throw. Might be fun.

 

He's a Brown now so I'm pulling for him but can't we just draft a regular WR anymore??

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I'm not a big wonderlic guy but Manziel had a 32 and Pryor had a 7 ... that's got to tell you something.

 

 

Wonderlic is a decent measure of knowledge, not so much mental acuity. Unfortunately, mental acuity, not knowledge, is much, much more important to an NFL QB.

 

For the record, Pryor took the test the next day and scored a 22. I have a feeling his 7 was more along the lines of "why the fuck should I have to do this?" than "I'm too dumb to understand".

Actually.....the wonderlick test does matter and is does NOT measure knowledge....it measures cognative ability.....meaning it measures your capacity to learn and problem solve.....it also measures your ability to understand complex concepts(and multi task)...

 

A 7 is brutally low and no QB with a score like that has ever succeeded in the NFL. Good chance it's why the Bungles dumped him so fast. If he cannot absorb the playbook and offensive scheme then that would be pretty obvious pretty fast. And, even if you learn the plays but still cant process things fast(like on the field), you wont be able to do it.....

 

Vince Young would be the perfect example. Scored a 6, then retested and scored a 15. Had massive skills....college success.....etc, but could not grasp things at the NFL level.......

 

The lowest scores I could find for "successful" QB's were Terry Bradshaw(not surprised) and Donovan McNabb at 15.....

 

Here are some real world average scores for different careers....chemist 31, teacher 28, nurse 23, security guard 17, janitor 14.....and thats as low as the list goes(14)....soooooo.......

 

......If Pryor really did score a 7, then the whole idea that he's too dumb makes perfect sense to me.......

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Well, the Braineac posted the Bungles' guarded practice film online, so I'm guessing the 7 is the more accurate score.

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TE - Barnidge, Pryor, Housler, Telfer

That's not the TE depth chart of a team that is going to emphasize the run.

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Actually.....the wonderlick test does matter and is does NOT measure knowledge....it measures cognative ability.....meaning it measures your capacity to learn and problem solve.....it also measures your ability to understand complex concepts(and multi task)...

 

A 7 is brutally low and no QB with a score like that has ever succeeded in the NFL. Good chance it's why the Bungles dumped him so fast. If he cannot absorb the playbook and offensive scheme then that would be pretty obvious pretty fast. And, even if you learn the plays but still cant process things fast(like on the field), you wont be able to do it.....

 

Vince Young would be the perfect example. Scored a 6, then retested and scored a 15. Had massive skills....college success.....etc, but could not grasp things at the NFL level.......

 

The lowest scores I could find for "successful" QB's were Terry Bradshaw(not surprised) and Donovan McNabb at 15.....

 

Here are some real world average scores for different careers....chemist 31, teacher 28, nurse 23, security guard 17, janitor 14.....and thats as low as the list goes(14)....soooooo.......

 

......If Pryor really did score a 7, then the whole idea that he's too dumb makes perfect sense to me.......

 

 

It's intended to measure intellectual function and the capacity to solve problems, however it has been found to be a poor indicator for fluid intelligence - which is arguably the most important mental attribute for a QB.

 

More on fluid intelligence:

 

"Fluid intelligence or fluid reasoning is the capacity to think logically and solve problems in novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge. It is the ability to analyze novel problems, identify patterns and relationships that underpin these problems and the extrapolation of these using logic. It is necessary for all logical problem solving, e.g., in scientific, mathematical, and technical problem solving. Fluid reasoning includes inductive reasoning and deductive reasoning."

 

 

The Wonderlic does a poor job in testing how a person solves problems independent of prior knowledge, meaning that players who had poor educations, didn't attend classes, etc. are already behind the ball. Is Pryor less knowledgable than Manziel in a lot of subjects? Surely. He's no Rhodes Scholar. He's not a very verbose or eloquent person, he's not an engineer and he probably doesn't know how to find the volume of a cylinder. But none of those things matter when it comes to playing sports.

 

Wonderlic scores show little to no correlation whatsoever with QB performance.

 

Stat Correlation

QBR .0049

Sack Percentage -.1071

Net Yards Per Attempt .0535

Passer Rating .1217

Interception Rate Per Attempt -.1944

 

 

Pryor scored low on the Wonderlic (only 2 below the NFL QB average of 24, for the record). He's also not a good NFL QB. Those are two mutually exclusive things.

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That's not the TE depth chart of a team that is going to emphasize the run.

 

Fair enough, maybe substitute Dray for Barnidge.

 

However, I don't necessarily agree with a stable of blocking TE's as an indicator of a run heavy team. It seems the key tenet of Flip's offensive philosophy (and this entire regime) is unpredictability and versatility. Just like on defense, I think we're going to have guys lined up everywhere, trying different things, so that we don't fall into familiar patterns. I think we'll have one, maybe two Y TE's and then 2 or 3 F TE's/ H-backs.

 

I don't think we'll see a majority of overloaded or heavy sets with two big body TE's trotting out there. I think we'll see a heavy dose of 2 TE sets featuring a blocker and a receiving threat in some fashion.

 

F - Johnson, Housler and Pryor

Y - Barnidge, Telfer, maybe Dray

 

Of these guys:

  • Pryor's versatility is apparent in that he is a QB convert, he's a large body and he's athletic - so he can be beneficial in goal line situations/ trick plays.
  • Housler's versatility is that he's a big body who can be effective at block and release routes and chip blocking out of the backfield (although it's not his strength) and he's athletic enough to be a receiving TE.
  • Johnson is a Marcel Reece-type FB/RB/TE. I think he'll be lined up everywhere - in the backfield, on the line, flexed out and pulled in motion.
  • Barnidge is slightly more of a receiver and less of a blocker, but is efficient enough at blocking to contribute.
  • Dray is more of a blocker and less of a receiver, but is efficient enough at receiving to contribute.
  • Telfer is a pure blocker who needs to add some size to be completely effective.

 

Of these guys, only Pryor isn't going to be used as a blocker in some fashion, but that's because I see him as more of a WR/TE than a TE/FB.

 

 

We have 5 solid offensive linemen. We have two TE's who are primarily blockers (Telfer, Johnson) . We have one TE who is about half and half blocker and short yardage receiver (Barnidge) . We have one TE who is more of a receiver than blocker, but can occasionally chip or release (Housler). And we have one TE who is a pure receiver (Pryor).

 

To me, that seems like we're set up to do anything that we really want.

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Fair enough, maybe substitute Dray for Barnidge.

 

However, I don't necessarily agree with a stable of blocking TE's as an indicator of a run heavy team. It seems the key tenet of Flip's offensive philosophy (and this entire regime) is unpredictability and versatility. Just like on defense, I think we're going to have guys lined up everywhere, trying different things, so that we don't fall into familiar patterns. I think we'll have one, maybe two Y TE's and then 2 or 3 F TE's/ H-backs.

 

I don't think we'll see a majority of overloaded or heavy sets with two big body TE's trotting out there. I think we'll see a heavy dose of 2 TE sets featuring a blocker and a receiving threat in some fashion.

 

F - Johnson, Housler and Pryor

Y - Barnidge, Telfer, maybe Dray

 

Of these guys:

  • Pryor's versatility is apparent in that he is a QB convert, he's a large body and he's athletic - so he can be beneficial in goal line situations/ trick plays.
  • Housler's versatility is that he's a big body who can be effective at block and release routes and chip blocking out of the backfield (although it's not his strength) and he's athletic enough to be a receiving TE.
  • Johnson is a Marcel Reece-type FB/RB/TE. I think he'll be lined up everywhere - in the backfield, on the line, flexed out and pulled in motion.
  • Barnidge is slightly more of a receiver and less of a blocker, but is efficient enough at blocking to contribute.
  • Dray is more of a blocker and less of a receiver, but is efficient enough at receiving to contribute.
  • Telfer is a pure blocker who needs to add some size to be completely effective.

 

Of these guys, only Pryor isn't going to be used as a blocker in some fashion, but that's because I see him as more of a WR/TE than a TE/FB.

 

 

We have 5 solid offensive linemen. We have two TE's who are primarily blockers (Telfer, Johnson) . We have one TE who is about half and half blocker and short yardage receiver (Barnidge) . We have one TE who is more of a receiver than blocker, but can occasionally chip or release (Housler). And we have one TE who is a pure receiver (Pryor).

 

To me, that seems like we're set up to do anything that we really want.

 

I can't see Pryor at TE or H-Back or any position where he is asked to block an NFL front seven. He's going to be a WR.

 

Zombo

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If you're calling out a guy on his mental performance, maybe don't misspell the insult.

 

Which part is misspelled? If you're referring to 'Braineac', I copied and pasted straight from google. Since I don't think it's really a word, I doubt there is only one accepted form of spelling. But if it is a word, I'm sure a Brainiac like you will point it out. (see what I did there?)

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I like Braineac better, because braineac.org is where all the Mensa members like Pryor hang out. The villain guy is kind of gay.

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I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.

 

 

Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.

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Fair enough, maybe substitute Dray for Barnidge.

 

However, I don't necessarily agree with a stable of blocking TE's as an indicator of a run heavy team. It seems the key tenet of Flip's offensive philosophy (and this entire regime) is unpredictability and versatility.

 

F - Johnson, Housler and Pryor

Y - Barnidge, Telfer, maybe Dray

 

To me, that seems like we're set up to do anything that we really want.

But not to do all things equally well...

 

Last year we were most effective running out of a single-back, 2-TE set... and for the most part those 2-TEs were Dray and Barnidge. I do not see that changing.

 

Tefler is the pick that I still scratch my head over. Not simply unproductive receiving, he has a significant injury history... ankle, knee, foot. Bibbs, who is a prime PS candidate, is a more intriguing long-term prospect to my eye.

 

At 231 Johnson (now listed at FB)... as he should be... is going to need a head of steam to move anyone, so his effectiveness blocking on the line or as a wing is questionable.

 

Housler... yes, he busts the cookie-cutter mold, as Cam did last year, and that's a good thing. But that's about all he has in common with Cam. I'm not spending hope on a 6th year miracle... that inventory is reserved for our veteran QB.

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I don't think Pryor sounds any dumber than Ryan Mallet, or Brett Favre, or Rob Gronkowski, or any number of players from the South who don't speak eloquently. I think he's just not eloquent...that doesn't make him stupid.

 

 

Since when is Jeanette Pennsylvania in "The South"? South of Pittsburgh maybe. That is where Pryor is from.

 

 

Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.

 

I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.

 

Zombo

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Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.

 

I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.

 

Zombo

I agree JFF seems a smarter guy than Pryor, but if smarts were all it took then Stephen Hawking would be playing QB.....but somehow I thinks he lacks a bit of the athleticism needed for the position. :blink:

Fair to say?

StevenHawkingBrowns.jpg

though...in college he was on the Oxford rowing team...as coxswain.

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Ya, and Gronk is from Buffalo (and a TE, so who cares) and Bret Favre never sounded dumb to me, so I'm not getting his angle here.

 

I perceive Johnny M as a smarter guy all around than Pryor, I don't care where they are from.

 

Zombo

 

The "any player from the South" is just the fourth item in that list, it wasn't meant to be a summation of the previously listed people.

 

Brett Favre is literally an example of poor elocution by public figures in college public speaking courses, hence my inclusion of him in the list. Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback. My point is that a lot of people are poor speakers or "sound dumb", but that is no reflection on their aptitude in their chosen fields.

 

Case in point, you don't think Brett Favre sounds stupid, you think that Pryor does. They both scored 22's on the Wonderlic. One is a Hall of Fame QB, the other is a garbage QB. Once again, there's no correlation whatsoever between Wonderlic scores and NFL production, so the whole "Manziel sounds smarter, so he'll be a better quarterback" is a complete fallacy.

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Your point was that he "sounds dumb" to you, so he must be a stupid quarterback.

 

I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.

 

And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.

 

Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.

 

So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.

 

A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.

 

Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.

 

It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"

 

So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.

 

Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.

 

Zombo

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I said something along the lines of "just listen to them speak" as one indicator of who was smarter. Manziel comes off as a more intelligent young man. And my judgement on Pryor is just not from listening him speak, but his actions on and of the field. I don't perceive him as a cerebral QB candidate.

 

And yes, smarts matter. If the athletic ability is similar, I believe the smarter guy has a better chance for success.

 

Ken Dorsey was really smart, but didn't have the athletic ability. There are tons of guys like that. You HAVE to have the athletic ability.

 

So once that is established ... once you have a prospect that has the athletic ability to play QB in the NFL, then you look at his other factors ... and intelligence is one of them.

 

A lot of the premier QBs are pretty sharp guys ... Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers ... probably the best four QBS the past five years, all cerebral. Russell Wilson, came within a cunthair of winning the last two Super Bowls, seems like a real smart dude.

 

Then you have really great athletes that you figure would have had better NFL careers if their grey matter matched the rest of their skillset ... Vick, Young ... I would add our very own Brandon Weeden to that list. If those guys "got it", they could have been outstanding. Kaepernick is another guy who is no mensa candidate but has the athletic ability to start in the NFL and do pretty good.

 

It's a factor. It's not the be-all, end-all. But you started this whole thing off with "Tell me again what attributes Manziel has that Pryor doesn't?"

 

So I'm telling you one ... Manziel seems a lot sharper. And you seem to agree. So that should be that.

 

Never said you can't be successful NFL QB, if you aren't a real sharp guy ... you can. They're out there. But intelligence is an attribute. And it is an attribute NFL people like to see in QBs. Not really up for debate.

 

Zombo

 

Fair enough.

 

Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.

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Fair enough.

 

Smarts do matter, I agree. And Manziel seems to be sharper, I also agree.

 

Crap. Who am I going to argue with now?

 

Maybe I need to unban a few irritants before training camp just for entertaining purposes.

 

I will list some Barrabbas candidates that we could bring back for another tour of duty and you guys pick the one you want back:

 

Naberius_Cerbera

upper lip

ManzielSucks

StocktonShorts

Mike H

Demoted

Orange85

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I agree JFF seems a smarter guy than Pryor, but if smarts were all it took then Stephen Hawking would be playing QB.....but somehow I thinks he lacks a bit of the athleticism needed for the position. :blink:

Fair to say?

StevenHawkingBrowns.jpg

though...in college he was on the Oxford rowing team...as coxswain.

From Shelton Cooper and the rest of the Braineac staff from The Big Bang Theory. Bozinga D Bone Bozinga on prober usage of Braineac. (Screw spell check). :D:P

 

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