Tour2ma Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 It does get interesting with Williams coming. Depends on what you're trying to exploit. If you see the center has issues anchoring or with protection calls, you can run a double A gap look. You can go with Danny at the traditional 1 still holding the double team and that would leave Allen at the 3-5 spot doing what he does best. So no default to the opposite OG... situational and match-up driven. Thanks... Guess I just feel Danny needs to be inside an OG's shoulder at his widest. I dunno... just starting to hit me that we're on the verge of assembling a very strong 3-4 base and we're moving away from it... again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Glad Horton is gone,but you still have to have players. Schemes can only do so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'm seeing the first round as being Allen and Foster. Then cb/s/og/c in the second and third rounds. oh, waiting til the draft is going to be another aggravating long three months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns149 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'm seeing the first round as being Allen and Foster. Then cb/s/og/c in the second and third rounds. oh, waiting til the draft is going to be another aggravating long three months It wouldn't be that aggravating if you don't read this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 It wouldn't be that aggravating if you don't read this board. Lol...that's what I say. Endless draft talk, starts in September every year when the Browns are 1-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 I dunno... just starting to hit me that we're on the verge of assembling a very strong 3-4 base and we're moving away from it... again.I agree it's frustrating as hell, but personnel wise I believe we're tooled better for a 4-3 defense. That would probably leave Davis as the odd LB out of the starting lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Yeah... Davis doesn't seem versatile enough, but also not sure Kirksey is impactful enough... and Danny was born to be a NT. And now I have Davis-like questions about Foster... Oh well... still months to agonize. Anyway... Hue seems to have pulled the curtain back some today of the change... Browns coach Hue Jackson said Sunday he expects new defensive coordinator Gregg Williams to bring an "aggressive and attacking" defense to Cleveland next season. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18430820/cleveland-browns-hire-gregg-williams-defensive-coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 8, 2017 Report Share Posted January 8, 2017 Zach Cunningham from Vandy might be someone to eyeball if Foster is more akin to a Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Browns lay to rest their ineffective 3-4 defense with hiring of Gregg Williams http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland//post/_/id/2721 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 then why the fuck did hue hire horton to begin with? stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah Kirksey - Davis - Collins Nassib and Orchard as Super Subs that you can rush from anywhere. Now get this guy some safeties. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I dunno... just starting to hit me that we're on the verge of assembling a very strong 3-4 base and we're moving away from it... again. Wait wut? The base of any 3-4 has to be the olb'ers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Also, chris long is gonna be a FA. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren15 Posted January 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah Kirksey - Davis - Collins Nassib and Orchard as Super Subs that you can rush from anywhere. Now get this guy some safeties. Z http://www.si.com/2017-nfl-draft-rankings-safeties http://overthecap.com/free-agency/ Draft or FA for safeties....take your pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 then why the fuck did hue hire horton to begin with? stumped. Trying to find the other candidates Hue looked at, mik, but coming up empty except for Leslie Frazier, former bucs DC. Seems like it was Ray all along if he did not get the Titans HC job for which he also interviewed. Wait wut? The base of any 3-4 has to be the olb'ers Bum would argue that with you... he favored block-eating trios up front that left his LBs free to roam... I'll bet you came name more Luv-ya-Blue era DL than you can LBs. I believe the HoF score from them is DL 2 LB 0... That said were we to retain Collins and draft Foster I think our starting Collins-Kirksey-Foster-Orchard feels like a pretty good set. On the other hand if we only need three? Collins - ??? - Kirksey ? What's your three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Trying to find the other candidates Hue looked at, mik, but coming up empty except for Leslie Frazier, former bucs DC. Seems like it was Ray all along if he did not get the Titans HC job for which he also interviewed. Look up Vance Joseph who was with Hue in Cinncy,now DC at Miami. Vance was to far IN to committing to Case before Hue was announced as HC..Hue still tried. Joseph was Hue's 1st choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 That said were we to retain Collins and draft Foster I think our starting Collins-Kirksey-Foster-Orchard feels like a pretty good set. On the other hand if we only need three? Collins - ??? - Kirksey ? What's your three? Im not sold on Collins. Either that he wants to even be here or that he's really even that good. If Horton hadn't been fired and we stayed in the 3-4 i have zero issue saying I would not want to retain Collins as one of our OLB'ers. Just because he'd be better than the tripe we had this year at OLB'er doesn't mean shit. I'd rather draft and convert Garett than keep Collins as the starting OLB'er. But now that we're switching to a blitz heavy 4-3, now maybe Collins makes more sense. He's "way" better at blitzing than he is coming up to the line. He's awful at the point which 3-4 OLB'ers cannot be. But as a 4-3 OLB'er he'd mostly be going up against TE's and FB's trying to hold the edge. I'm ok with that. But i saw a few tackles this year that slapped him around like a prison ho. So right now my LB'er rotation would be Davis, Kirksey and Collins. With Collins being that 3rd roaming LB'er that you don't know if he's blitzing or not. If it were my defense Orchard is rotational depth at DE. I"d immediately tell him to put some solid mass on to get his weight up a bit, but not too much. He'd be one of those guys that against certain teams you use him as speed rush and firezoning DE. I still def want the mules like OG, Nas and hopefully Allen...to do the lions share of the heavy lifting during the season. But Orchard could be put in as a sub in certian games and maybe an outright starter in others to give one of the other guys a rest. As a 4-3 olb'er though....maybe in short yardage/goal line. That guy you can put in coverage in the short field near the goal line or bring up to the line to make a 5 man front depending on what the read is. Orch should give Wiliams some interesting ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Garret - Meder - Shelton - OgbahKirksey - Davis - Collins Zombo **************************************** I see ALLEN - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah Kirksey - Davis/FOSTER - Collins Garrett will have to learn to get off blocks. Allen blows up blocks, goes around them, over them, throws them out of his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Trying to find the other candidates Hue looked at, mik, but coming up empty except for Leslie Frazier, former bucs DC. Seems like it was Ray all along if he did not get the Titans HC job for which he also interviewed. Bum would argue that with you... he favored block-eating trios up front that left his LBs free to roam... I'll bet you came name more Luv-ya-Blue era DL than you can LBs. I believe the HoF score from them is DL 2 LB 0... That said were we to retain Collins and draft Foster I think our starting Collins-Kirksey-Foster-Orchard feels like a pretty good set. On the other hand if we only need three? Collins - ??? - Kirksey ? What's your three? The lack of minority coaches interviewed or even on the list of asked suggests that hue had less input in this decision than last year. Especially when hue is on record saying he will make every attempt to give minority coaches the chance. Personally i liked teryl austin but hey i guess horton was fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 One point to add. At least we have a viable name to put the title Interim Head Coach in front of his name. Been awhile since we've done that so we're due. And to note after watching the first weekend of playoffs. We are fucking light years and a few parsecs away from playoff caliber team. It'll be more realistic for Craftsman to come out with a industrial line of shop vacs and call them the Browns than to think that we're gonna see winning football here in the next 5 years. I wish otherwise but like the Amish folk say...Wish in one hand, shit in the other and see which one fills up first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 So this has to have us leaning to Garrett over Allen, presumably? Assuming we don't go QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 So this has to have us leaning to Garrett over Allen, presumably? Assuming we don't go QB. Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland. I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE. Whichever way it goes, other than trading out of the top 3, it will be a very good thing for the Browns to take either one of them. Teams that get either one will be instantly far better defenses. Thank goodness for Sunday Ticket so I can record both to see how they progress next year. Of course whichever one the Browns DON'T take will be instantly the far better player according to the BrownsBoard as the season goes along. Edit: Here's a random thought. Want to be instantly really scary? Trade down to SF so they get the QB and then trade up with Chicago to get #3 as well. Then we have them both and still some ammunition left in the draft. Where is Sonny when we need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 This DC is a pure FO decision. The facts do not support this statement. Hue pretty much came out and said it was his decision (from this article): 3. Horton heard a Hue: In announcing the coordinator change, coach Hue Jackson would not admit that he was choosing Williams’ renowned 4-3 scheme over Horton’s 3-4. “His system gives us a chance, and what he has done is adapt many different schemes that he has been a part of and that he knows to the talent that is there,” Jackson said. “He is going to bring us the type of defense that I am looking for as we move forward here.” Jackson called Williams “one of the better coordinators” in the NFL. And I thought these comments were telling: “I need growth over there as fast as I can get it. I truly believe in his track record and what he has done. Like I said, this wasn’t an easy decision. I agonized over this probably more than anybody because it does, it does hurt some people, but when I look at it at the end of the day, I have to do what I think is right to get us to where we need to be. I think Gregg is that guy.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wonder if SD would want that first pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Im not sold on Collins. But now that we're switching to a blitz heavy 4-3, now maybe Collins makes more sense. He's "way" better at blitzing than he is coming up to the line. He's awful at the point which 3-4 OLB'ers cannot be. But as a 4-3 OLB'er he'd mostly be going up against TE's and FB's trying to hold the edge. I'm ok with that. But i saw a few tackles this year that slapped him around like a prison ho. So right now my LB'er rotation would be Davis, Kirksey and Collins. Kirksey MLB and Davis OLB? Why? And why not vice versa? Also any consideration of Collins at MLB? Thoughts on Foster at MLB vs. half of an ILB pairing? A pass rushing OLB would seem better suited to the 3-4 to my mind. And I disagree on Collins vs. the run. I've seen him stack and set the edge multiple times. That said I'm not completely sold on Collins either. I've seen some of the free-lancing that Bill B. leaked was in part the rationale for his fire-sale... mostly in pass coverage. I think it was the Cinci game where he was clearly supposed to pick up Eifert coming across the field and did so only to fall off him in favor of a releasing RB that two DBs were already bracketing. Of course Eifert ended up with a mid-teen-ish yard reception. Not necessarily. Williams had Aaron Donald with the Rams and he may want that slightly undersized, disruptive DT in Cleveland. I could see that. I'm just thinking, Allen was (roughly, relatively) a 9/10 fit for a 3-4 DE, and 9/10 for a 4-3 DT; Garrett is 8/10 for a 3-4 OLB, 10/10 for a 4-3 DE. First, at 6'3 291 Allen ain't all that undersized for DT. Second, interesting attempt to quantify Allan/Garrett in the two schemes and pretty well nailed IMO with one exception... I see Allen as 10/10 in the 3-4 DE role... the guy screams "prototype" at that position. The facts do not support this statement. Hue pretty much came out and said it was his decision (from this article): Bingo-mundo... but CDS never supported his original statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 I wonder if SD would want that first pick? I think everyone would want the first pick....but doubt they are willing to trade what we should be asking for. And who would you have them taking at #1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Williams runs a 4-3, but he is also known to adjust his scheme to the player's strengths and weaknesses. I've read it over and over. That being said, I think this points towards bringing Garrett to Cleveland. Anything can happen of course, but it would make sense. Ogbah has been doing better with his hand in the dirt, and Garrett is obviously a 4-3 DE (but could probably do anything). I'm a little concerned about reading how complicated Williams' scheme can be, but I also read that Williams has a documented history of making things better quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 9, 2017 Report Share Posted January 9, 2017 Garret - Meder - Shelton - Ogbah Kirksey - Davis - Collins In a 4-3, Collins is the MLB and nothing else. He's not an OLB, and never will be. When Davis is playing, only bad things will happen. Davis should only get PT in the goalline 5-4 and ST. Kirksey/Collins as your nickel LB pair, draft the other starter. Orchard isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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