gftChris Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 These top three were selected by the Brown and Orange Report - I only added King to add to the contaversy of taking all D in the first and second rounds. Having said that, I take it you don't agree with them? Those are 4 instant starters and with a high ceiling. The D was crap this year. Resign Collins and add these 4 players and a lot can change quickly on D. Yes we still need to solve the QB and O-Line. I would be sold on taking those three guys (or similar) then a center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Yes. A UT Vol. Kid just broke Reggie Whites sack total for all-time sack leader at UT. When you start knocking Reggie White down a notch, you can't be a slouch. I think because of the stat you quote, that our analytics team may have him high on their list of prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Fuck. No. Trubisky isn't a #2 talent. I still sorta have heart burn about him at 12 but can sorta deal with it. Right....he is not #2 talent. He is #1 talent. But he may not even come out from what I hear.....so it may be superfluous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Watch out. Gipper's about to be all riled up. As a new fan of the Browns....you may be all willing to continue to live in quarterback hell. But I have been a fan since the early 60s....and I don't want to wait around while the Browns continue to flounder around with this QB issue. Unless you can give me a goddamn guarantee that a Jimmy Garropolo or AJ McCarron are the next coming of Brett Favre, I would rather take my chances of using the top commodity that any team can have: the #1 overall pick in the draft, on a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Yes. A UT Vol. Kid just broke Reggie Whites sack total for all-time sack leader at UT. When you start knocking Reggie White down a notch, you can't be a slouch. Yep...caught some of him in their bowl game. Very impressive pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Right....he is not #2 talent. He is #1 talent. But he may not even come out from what I hear.....so it may be superfluous. He is not a top 15 talent imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 He is not a top 15 talent imo. It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what NFL GMs think. If he comes out, he will go in Top 3.....guaranteed. They will assess that high. And their opinions will align more with mine than they do yours....guraranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what NFL GMs think. If he comes out, he will go in Top 3.....guaranteed. They will assess that high. And their opinions will align more with mine than they do yours....guraranteed. Can't he just say the same thing to you ... It doesn't matter what you think? Why are you digging in so much on this fucker? He has a great arm, but lots of people have had great arms, and they weren't all Top 3 material. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Can't he just say the same thing to you ... It doesn't matter what you think? Why are you digging in so much on this fucker? He has a great arm, but lots of people have had great arms, and they weren't all Top 3 material. Zombo In fairness, big vaguely mobile guys have been going high with people looking to replicate big ben - Wentz in 2016, Bortles in 2014, Tannehill in 2012, Newton in 2011... I'm not sold that Trubisky is on the same level though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what NFL GMs think. If he comes out, he will go in Top 3.....guaranteed. They will assess that high. And their opinions will align more with mine than they do yours....guraranteed. Then in a few years time if Mitch turns into Blaine Gabbert you have a fellow poster that can hang an opinion over you that was aligned with reason. Perhaps something more GM's should follow. I look forward to seeing what happens either way. There's only one scenario I'm comfortable with Mitch @ #1 and that involves a trade down of our second pick...which I'm an advocate for anyway. If at all possible to secure an additional 2nd rounder, then you go premier defense with your other first, Oline and secondary with your next 2. Then linebacker and depth following, especially in the trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Can't he just say the same thing to you ... It doesn't matter what you think? Why are you digging in so much on this fucker? He has a great arm, but lots of people have had great arms, and they weren't all Top 3 material. Zombo He can say the same to me....and yes, it doesn't matter what I think. Its just that I think that what I think will be proven right. i'e. I think some NFL GM....maybe ours will agree with me and take him Top 5. And it is far more than just a great arm that I see. It is the whole package. Tell you what, I will make the same deal with you I made with Stan: If MT comes out and is NOT taken in the Top 5 picks of the draft, I owe you a pitcher of Margaritas. Conditions: you and Stan must meet me at Maya....and each of you must consume one entire pitcher each, by yourselves, in one sitting. Fair deal? If I win, you buy the pitcher....but I will share it with you both. I am trying to stay off too much sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 In fairness, big vaguely mobile guys have been going high with people looking to replicate big ben - Wentz in 2016, Bortles in 2014, Tannehill in 2012, Newton in 2011... I'm not sold that Trubisky is on the same level though. As a prospect he is on the same level as all of them....except maybe Newton. How could he turn out. One never knows....hopefully...if we get him...more Newton/BR level. I someone else takes him....he is free to duplicate the Bortles/Tannehil path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Then in a few years time if Mitch turns into Blaine Gabbert you have a fellow poster that can hang an opinion over you that was aligned with reason. Perhaps something more GM's should follow. I am sure I have had more than a few opinions that people can "hang over me". I mean, I am so well hung already a little longer dangle won't hurt me. I look forward to seeing what happens either way. And if I am right....I may dangle my well hungness over you!! There's only one scenario I'm comfortable with Mitch @ #1 and that involves a trade down of our second pick...which I'm an advocate for anyway. If at all possible to secure an additional 2nd rounder, then you go premier defense with your other first, Oline and secondary with your next 2. Then linebacker and depth following, especially in the trenches. I got no problem with that if it gets us more of what we need. For sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 what would it take to get SF's number 2? Using a draft value chart, it'd take our #12, both second rounders and our opening pick in the third round. Not something we'd do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Using a draft value chart, it'd take our #12, both second rounders and our opening pick in the third round. Not something we'd do. Or, a #1 next year in addition to some of those other picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Yo, I'm late on this part of the conversation... whats up with the margaritas and why isn't everyone doing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted January 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 In fairness, big vaguely mobile guys have been going high with people looking to replicate big ben - Wentz in 2016, Bortles in 2014, Tannehill in 2012, Newton in 2011... I'm not sold that Trubisky is on the same level though. I was not impressed with his bowl game. Was responsible for two turnovers and two sacks that cost Nc 15 points! I agree he has size and an arm, but he's a project and I can't spend a #1 overall on him with so many needs and so much talent at other positions. Yes, we have to solve our QB issues (per Gipper) but not this way. It's going to be Tim Couch all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 6'3" 209 lbs is decent size, but not "big". Trubisky is smaller than Goff, Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Kizer, Allen, Mahomes etc. not to say he's undersized, but comparing him with worthlessberger is strange. Average, strong and mobile would be a better description of ol' Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 6'3" 209 lbs is decent size, but not "big". Trubisky is smaller than Goff, Wentz, Winston, Mariota, Kizer, Allen, Mahomes etc. not to say he's undersized, but comparing him with worthlessberger is strange. Average, strong and mobile would be a better description of ol' Mitch. Average what? Height? He is same or taller than: Rodgers Dalton Prescott Stafford Brees Wilson Cousins At 6'3, his height/weight are not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 He can say the same to me....and yes, it doesn't matter what I think. Its just that I think that what I think will be proven right. i'e. I think some NFL GM....maybe ours will agree with me and take him Top 5. And it is far more than just a great arm that I see. It is the whole package. Tell you what, I will make the same deal with you I made with Stan: If MT comes out and is NOT taken in the Top 5 picks of the draft, I owe you a pitcher of Margaritas. Conditions: you and Stan must meet me at Maya....and each of you must consume one entire pitcher each, by yourselves, in one sitting. Fair deal? If I win, you buy the pitcher....but I will share it with you both. I am trying to stay off too much sugar. Dude ... Me and Stan would be glad to drink multiple pitchers and pay for it ourselves ... so, I'm not saying he won't be a Top 5 pick ... I'm saying, I'm in. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 It doesn't matter what you think. It matters what NFL GMs think. If he comes out, he will go in Top 3.....guaranteed. They will assess that high. And their opinions will align more with mine than they do yours....guraranteed. QBs are overvalued. Of course they would rate him high. Tebow got picked in the first round at one point. So I am not terribly concerned about where pundits place QBs. Apparently, you have got the Gipper autism and have locked down an opinion 4 months before the draft and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Dude ... Me and Stan would be glad to drink multiple pitchers and pay for it ourselves ... so, I'm not saying he won't be a Top 5 pick ... I'm saying, I'm in. Zombo I am sure you would.....Perhaps there should be more meat and bones on the waiver. How about this: If he goes Top 5, then you have to bring Zoe and her sister to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I'd love to see Foster fall to 12. My professional scouting report on him reads as such: Reuben Foster is good at fucking shit up. lmao.... Where do I subscribe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 QBs are overvalued. Of course they would rate him high. Tebow got picked in the first round at one point. So I am not terribly concerned about where pundits place QBs. Then you admit that you completely agree with me. And it isn't pundits that are of concerned....it is NFL GMs. Or don't you get that? It was NFL GMs that chose Wentz and Goff.....two guys that may have in reality should have been 2d rounders #1 and #2. Apparently, you have got the Gipper autism and have locked down an opinion 4 months before the draft and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Or, maybe I am absolutely right....and you only disagree with me to disagree with me...choosing thereby to ignore the reality that QBs ARE going to be taken in the Top 5 of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 If the Browns jumped back up to 2, I would hope they walked away with Garrett and Allen. You mean "Allen and Garrett"... Unless you can give me a goddamn guarantee that a Jimmy Garropolo or AJ McCarron are the next coming of Brett Favre... Well one of us loses, since I'd want a guarantee they are not Brett Fucking Favre... In fairness, big vaguely mobile guys have been going high with people looking to replicate big ben - Wentz in 2016, Bortles in 2014, Tannehill in 2012, Newton in 2011... I'm not sold that Trubisky is on the same level though. Like for starters... he's not that big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 I am sure you would.....Perhaps there should be more meat and bones on the waiver. How about this: If he goes Top 5, then you have to bring Zoe and her sister to the party. Alright. I'm not doubting you by the way, I am searching for information. I am pretty much into the Browns current season all year and I don't even sniff draft stuff until after the season, so I am dipping into the pool. You seem to be locked onto this guy, so I am thinking one of two things: 1. He's a local boy, and you love all things local, so you've decided you're just going to defend him to the death. or: 2. You've seen him play a lot and were flat out amazed at his skills. Because, here's me: 1. The local hook is nice and all, but I want the best player for the Browns. Lots of nice fluffy stories when we drafted Frye and Quinn, but they sucked. and : 2. I've seen him play a few times and never been blown away. The only time I was really in "scout" mode was watching the second half of his bowl game. Was actually pretty down on him until his last drive when he showed a wicked arm. But comes off as raw and at 6'3 209 he is no Roethlisberger/Tannehill/Wentz body, not sure where people are coming up with that, he's closer to Colt McCoy. So I am just trying to find out what the hubbub is all about. If he comes out and rises up the chart like Wentz because of the arm/mobility combo, it won't shock me ... but Prescott had arm and mobility and went in fourth round. So what am I missing? Accuracy? Intangibles? Smarts? Is he a dirt dog like Andrew Luck? Someone sell him to me without mentioning his high school or his strong arm ... cause I need more. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 He can say the same to me....and yes, it doesn't matter what I think. Its just that I think that what I think will be proven right. i'e. I think some NFL GM....maybe ours will agree with me and take him Top 5. And it is far more than just a great arm that I see. It is the whole package. Tell you what, I will make the same deal with you I made with Stan: If MT comes out and is NOT taken in the Top 5 picks of the draft, I owe you a pitcher of Margaritas. Conditions: you and Stan must meet me at Maya....and each of you must consume one entire pitcher each, by yourselves, in one sitting. Fair deal? If I win, you buy the pitcher....but I will share it with you both. I am trying to stay off too much sugar. Try adding caffeine to your list.... Jesus, Gip...we get it. You're nearly out-Ghoolieing Ghoolie... and with one your patented, inside-the-quote, itemized replies to tia above the gap is barely discernible. Had you thrown in a cuss or two you'd have nailed it. And all after "hearing" Trubs might not even come out... Yo, I'm late on this part of the conversation... whats up with the margaritas and why isn't everyone doing this? I'll bet you a pitcher we agree much more than we disagree this year... again... I am sure you would.....Perhaps there should be more meat and bones on the waiver. How about this: If he goes Top 5, then you have to bring Zoe and her sister to the party. .. and in return? You bring "the Hooker"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 You mean "Allen and Garrett"... Well one of us loses, since I'd want a guarantee they are not Brett Fucking Favre... So? You would not want a QB with Brett Favre like qualities? I don't know if there is anything that can be said. Like for starters... he's not that big. How big does a QB have to be to win a Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Average what? Height? He is same or taller than: Rodgers Dalton Prescott Stafford Brees Wilson Cousins At 6'3, his height/weight are not a problem. Calm down, Gip, I wasn't insulting your dream surrogate, I was simply saying that he isn't "big". I swear, you read a convincing scouting report and you become a goose-stepper. Do you know what average means? I listed several QBs taller than Trubisky and you tried to prove me wrong by listing several shorter than him.... ... .... That's what average means! But most importantly, I wasn't saying that Mitch isn't worthy of being our QB because he's small, I actually like Mitch. Calling a 209 lb. QB 'big' is just strange to me, all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 6, 2017 Report Share Posted January 6, 2017 Alright. I'm not doubting you by the way, I am searching for information. I am pretty much into the Browns current season all year and I don't even sniff draft stuff until after the season, so I am dipping into the pool. You seem to be locked onto this guy, so I am thinking one of two things: 1. He's a local boy, and you love all things local, so you've decided you're just going to defend him to the death. Has nothing to do with him being local. That only helps with public relations. or: 2. You've seen him play a lot and were flat out amazed at his skills. I said that I think he has more QB skills than any QB that has come out in the last two years. And, yes, there are some things that I have seen that I think are amazing. I think the raw material is there. Like I have said repeatedly, I think he has Aaron Rodgers qualities. Because, here's me: 1. The local hook is nice and all, but I want the best player for the Browns. Lots of nice fluffy stories when we drafted Frye and Quinn, but they sucked. See above, yes, I agree, all fine and well to have local flavor for PR purposes...but....that is all there is to that. and : 2. I've seen him play a few times and never been blown away. The only time I was really in "scout" mode was watching the second half of his bowl game. Was actually pretty down on him until his last drive when he showed a wicked arm. But comes off as raw and at 6'3 209 he is no Roethlisberger/Tannehill/Wentz body, not sure where people are coming up with that, he's closer to Colt McCoy. I am not one that compared his body to those guys. He is not as huge and stiff as those guys, at all. So I am just trying to find out what the hubbub is all about. If he comes out and rises up the chart like Wentz because of the arm/mobility combo, it won't shock me ... but Prescott had arm and mobility and went in fourth round. So what am I missing? Accuracy? Intangibles? Smarts? Yes, if you don't see those, then I would say, yes, you are missing them. Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership. What else do you want in a QB? The ability to make a good brioche? Is he a dirt dog like Andrew Luck? I am not sure what you mean by being a dirt dog. And I am not saying that he is an Andrew Luck level prospect. There have been only 3 of those in the last 35 years. Someone sell him to me without mentioning his high school or his strong arm ... cause I need more. Arm strength, accuracy, smarts, touch mobility, poise, leadership, the ability to make a good brioche. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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