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Jordan vs. LeBron


The Gipper

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Sorry folks, all of you who worship at the mantle of Michael Jordan....or who would like to snuffle the cum in the crack of his ass.....I don't think he is the greatest player ever. Greatest shooting guard? Yes, but I think that 3-4 players rank higher on the "GOAT' meter than MJ. These include LeBron, Magic, maybe Bird, likely Wilt and Russell.

 

Here is the response to those who say "but Jordan has 6 rings"....the answer is: his 6 rings were far easier for him to get than what rings the others got.

Jordan NEVER faced teams as good as these GS Warriors or the San Antonio Spurs.

Jordan NEVER faced teams as good as the Magic/Kareem Lakers or the Bird/McHale Celtics.

The best opponent that Jordan ever had to face were the Jazz with Stockton and Malone. Good teams, no doubt.....not close to as good as Warriors/Spurs of LeBrons era or Celtics/Lakers of the Magic Bird era.

Then of course there is the issue of: 6 rings. Bill Russell led Celtics won 11!.

 

So, OK...to throw out the bone, here is what I would do: Name an all time team:

 

Center

Power Forward

Small Forward

Shooting Guard

Point Guard

 

To fill the spots....in some cases is tough thing, very tough.

 

Center: Probably the toughest with Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq

Power Forward: Tim Duncan....Karl Malone 2d

Small Forward: LeBron....Bird second..then Dr. J

Shooting Guard: Jordan....Kobe 2d..or maybe Jerry West

Point Guard: Magic....Oscar Robertson 2d

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I think you can argue Lebron but Jordan is still ahead. If Lebron wins this series and continues at the same level 25+ ppg 6+ reb 6+ assts for a few more years and retires I'm inclined based on the eye test and longevity to say he's #1.

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You can add Jordan's team won 55 games without him. Can you see what this Cavs team would do if they could win 55 games without LeBron? They didn't win 55 games with him. My dream team Magic Jordan LeBron Bird Kareem

And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

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And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

You always have a supporting cast that enables the superstar to collect rings PLUS SOMETIMES JUST SOME LUCK or else you have the greats that are always the "what ifs", Jim Kelly, Marino, LT, Ewing, Fouts, Ted Williams just off the top of my head.

 

MJ also had Pippin and the vastly overlooked Dennis Rodman tattoos and all.

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You always have a supporting cast that enables the superstar to collect rings PLUS SOMETIMES JUST SOME LUCK or else you have the greats that are always the "what ifs", Jim Kelly, Marino, LT, Ewing, Fouts, Ted Williams just off the top of my head.

 

MJ also had Pippin and the vastly overlooked Dennis Rodman tattoos and all.

spot on both of you. Jackson arguably greatest coach ever and Rodman was huge for them. It was Rodman beating up the Bulls first in Detroit, We have the poor man's Rodman in Thomson. Got to love guys with strong motor
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  • 2 weeks later...

Jordan is viewed as untouchable because of the 6 rings and that he's in much more recent memory than most of the other GOAT contenders.

 

Both great players, but Lebron is just a freak that's ridiculously well-rounded. Big, athletic, triple double machine.

 

Magic Johnson would be higher on the GOAT scale had he not retired early, I think.

 

Wilt and Russell are harder to rate because they played in such a different era, though i think Wilt is definitely much more in the discussion than Russell.

 

I've heard Bill Russell is a bit of a dick though, someone I know rode in the same elevator as Russell in Vegas with his son - some years ago, maybe it was 2007 for the NBA all star game, don't remember exactly. They said the usual "it's an honor to meet you", whatever. The son asked for his autograph, to which Russell said "$100." They thought he was joking and laughed, long story short he paid $100 for Bill Russell's autograph - a worthy investment nonetheless.

 

Doesn't sound that egregious but I guess his overall demeanor was just "I'm Bill Russell and everybody else is a peasant"

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And figure this out: What did Jordan do without Phil Jackson. To a certain extent I think Jackson made Jordan, not the other way around. Remember...with a guy about as similar to Jordan in skill....Kobe...Jackson won another 5 titles.

That is how I view things. Jackson was the straw that stirred the Bulls drink, not Jordan.

I mean...what if Jackson has stayed with Kobe and they won one more title together?

Would we be saying that Kobe was the GOAT? It would without doubt be arguable. It is arguable now. For Kobe's last couple of title wins he did not have the kind of supporting cast that Jordan had, did he?

In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

 

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

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In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

 

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

I have heard some talk this morning however that these titles could be all due to Steve Kerr's philosophy. They ....i.e. commentators on ESPN....implied that if Mike Brown were the head coach and brought his own philosophy....that the Warriors may not have won...despite all their talent.

 

Dan Gilbert came in for some critique as well....for his position on GMs and HCs. In the 4 Finals the Cavs have gone to with LeBron...they have done it with 3 different HCs and 3 different GMs. They consider that a stability issue.....including going forward with Griffin's status up in the air.

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In the NBA it's talent that wins out. Phil Jackson was a good manager of egos, but when you have all time greats like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, pippen etc. you're supposed to win.

A can of chef Boyardee beef ravioli could coach these warriors to a championship simply because they have the most talent. Adding Kevin Durant to a 73 win team is laughably OP.

Yes and a 5 man team only needs about 2 or 3 superstars and some key bench guys to win it all versus a 9 or 11 man team.

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LeBron has been in the finals 8 times. Jordan got there 6 times.

 

Jordan has the best team 6 times. LeBron had the best team 2 times

 

No one has ever claimed any of Lebron's teammates are in the top 100 best players ever

 

Jordan played with Pippen, and Rodman, and had Phil as his coach.

 

Also, LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. Jordan went to college and " was told to leave" the NBA, for 2 years

 

I have personally seen both these guys play, and I also have stood right next to both of them, and talked to both of them........

 

MJ is the best BASKETBALL CLOSER I have very seen, but LeBron is the GREATEST basketball player I have ever seen.

 

LeBron doesn't have the "KILLER" instinct that MJ or KOBE had, but his skills are WAY WAY WAY better then either of those guys

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LeBron has been in the finals 8 times. Jordan got there 6 times.

 

Jordan had the best team 6 times. LeBron had the best team 2 times

 

No one has ever claimed any of Lebron's teammates are in the top 100 best players ever

 

Jordan played with Pippen, and Rodman, and had Phil as his coach.

 

Also, LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. Jordan went to college and " was told to leave" the NBA, for 2 years

 

I have personally seen both these guys play, and I also have stood right next to both of them, and talked to both of them........

 

MJ is the best BASKETBALL CLOSER I have very seen, but LeBron is the GREATEST basketball player I have ever seen.

 

LeBron doesn't have the "KILLER" instinct that MJ or KOBE had, but his skills are WAY WAY WAY better then either of those guys

 

 

Bolded facts, italicized laughable hyperbole.

 

Lebron maybe the most complete basketball player ever but the name of the game is scoring points and defending and nobody has done that better than Michael Jordan.

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Bolded facts, italicized laughable hyperbole.

 

Lebron maybe the most complete basketball player ever but the name of the game is scoring points and defending and nobody has done that better than Michael Jordan.

If scoring and defending are the only aspects of the game that matter....then Jordan loses out badly to Wilt Chamberlain....who was better at both.

If winning titles is the only aspect that matters then Jordan loses out badly to Bill Russell (and a couple of other Celtics)..who was better.

Just the facts ma'am.

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But wait Russell walks with a cane and Jordan is retired LeBron would bury either one of those guys! :huh:

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If scoring and defending are the only aspects of the game that matter....then Jordan loses out badly to Wilt Chamberlain....who was better at both.

If winning titles is the only aspect that matters then Jordan loses out badly to Bill Russell (and a couple of other Celtics)..who was better.

Just the facts ma'am.

 

 

I don't think anyone doubts Wilt's dominance but there is context to his accomplishments.

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I'm pretty sure you already know that answer.

I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

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I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

Come on trivia boy....you can't be this stupid :wacko:

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I honest don't know what the fuck you are talking about "context". The context is a basketball court. 94 feet by 50 feet. 10 foot rims. That is the only context I am aware of.

The only other thing I can think if is the context of your lifetime.....which is no context at all. Your life is irrelevant.

 

 

The context of being 7'0 and athletic when 95% of your competition is 6'4" and much less athletic

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The context of being 7'0 and athletic when 95% of your competition is 6'4" and much less athletic

So, you are saying that height matters when assessing the greatest of all time?

 

Well then, maybe Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues should be considered the GOATS.

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So, you are saying that height matters when assessing the greatest of all time?

 

Well then, maybe Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues should be considered the GOATS.

Don't forget Earl Boykins LOL...

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So, you are saying that height matters when assessing the greatest of all time?

 

Well then, maybe Spud Webb and Mugsy Bogues should be considered the GOATS.

 

 

If you want to argue just to argue please ignore me. Wilt was physically dominant over lesser competition. It doesn't preclude many, including myself, as giving him the credit of being one of the best basketball players ever but when you evaluate players across generations you factor in the competition they play against.

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Didn't Wilt have to play against Bill Russell for years? Who did MJ play against that was that good?

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Didn't Wilt have to play against Bill Russell for years? Who did MJ play against that was that good?

http://www.nba.com/history/bulls_dynasty.html

 

• 1991: Michael vs. Magic

The Bulls really were not supposed to win in 1991. Chicago had finally vanquished its longtime nemesis, the Detroit Pistons....

 

• 1992: A Trail through Portland

The Trail Blazers thought that 1992 would be their year to win the title. Portland had been defeated by the Pistons in the 1990 Finals, and the same core of players - Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Robinson, Duckworth, Williams - had returned to the Finals both ready and determined. But not as ready and determined as the Bulls, apparently.....

 

• 1993: Sir Charles is Denied his Crown

Winning two titles in a row almost had become the norm - the last three teams to win NBA championships had done just that (Lakers 1987-88, Pistons 1989-90, and Bulls 1991-92). Winning three in a row, now that was truly a challenge......

 

1996: Greatest Team Ever? 70!

Bulls fans celebrate the 70th win of the record-breaking 95-96 season.

With Jordan back at full strength after his foray into baseball, the Bulls compiled an amazing regular season record of 72-10, breaking the Lakers' record of 69-13 set in the early '70s....

 

• 1997: All That Jazz

If you had to pick one defining moment for Michael Jordan, chances are you would choose Game 5 of the 1997 Finals against the Jazz in Utah.....

 

• 1998: The Final Chapter

Throughout Jordan's career, although he was always the brightest of the stars on the court, there always seemed to be room for his teammates to step up and make a difference at key moments in important games......

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Didn't Wilt have to play against Bill Russell for years? Who did MJ play against that was that good?

 

 

Russell was good but even he wasn't close to the physical specimen Wilt was. Wilt was some much more physically gifted than everyone he played against. Imagine Shaq in his prime playing against high school kids.

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