TexasAg1969 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Last 5 Denver drafts....Ray OLB/DE...Roby CB...Williams DT...Wolfe DT...Miller OLB....these guys are the reason Denver won.. While Carolina was tapping the likes of Funchess WR, Benjamin WR, Newton QB, Clausen QB.....AND Kuechly(who's the best player of this group)..... If they're gonna draft O all the time, maybe Carolina should have drafted some OT's too.....those UDFA's were revolving doors... Plus they went out and got Ward, Ware, Stewart and Talib as starting defensive FA's. Our analytics guys need to look at this very closely before the draft. This is the first Superbowl winning team ever with less than 200 yds total offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Last 5 Denver drafts....Ray OLB/DE...Roby CB...Williams DT...Wolfe DT...Miller OLB....these guys are the reason Denver won.. While Carolina was tapping the likes of Funchess WR, Benjamin WR, Newton QB, Clausen QB.....AND Kuechly(who's the best player of this group)..... If they're gonna draft O all the time, maybe Carolina should have drafted some OT's too.....those UDFA's were revolving doors... as much as i still hate elway, the guy was one of the greatest qb's to ever play this game period...and what he has done with denver as a gm/vp or whatever his title is, is remarkable...he won this superbowl in my opinion and i'll bet if you ask every member of the team, they would tell you the same thing....especially peyton...i'm sure he is very grateful for elways knowledge on how to win championships....wonder if he used analytics to figure it all out...yeah right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Even though I can't stand the Broncos, that was one hell of a game. I love these defensive slug fests way more than a 38-31 game. It was probably my favorite Super Bowl since SF 20 Cincy 16. Regarding the QB...if Sashi ever returns my calls, I'll tell him to draft Nate Sudfeld out of Indiana. Not at #2, or #32, but #65, hell yeah. Get us an OLB (been preaching that since 1999 it seems), and maybe even another one in the first round. Denver's D stopped Brady and Big Ben. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I honestly cant remember a team winning it all with just offense....some good O's and well balanced teams, yes....but not just O.. But lots of dominant D's have won it all with very average or even below average QB's and offensive production.... Plus....smash mouth football is just so much fun to watch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Plus they went out and got Ward, Ware, Stewart and Talib as starting defensive FA's. Our analytics guys need to look at this very closely before the draft. This is the first Superbowl wining team ever with less than 200 yds total offense. you'd have to call the denver fo to see if they used analytics...I don't know if they do or not but i don't think they need analytics even if they are using them because the franchise is a winning franchise before the word analytics was in the nfl. Just the names elway, bolen, and manning are good enough marketing tools to get players like you mentioned without any ana friggin lytics. Again, you can have all the analytics in the world to tell you what to do, but it isn't going to tell you if the players want to actually come and play for your team...Do you actually think those players you mentioned would have come to cleveland with the issues they have...eh, don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 ehhhh. me thinks the denver defensive gets all the credit here....don't care whose ol played against them today, they would have got smutched.... They do get all the credit, but the Panthers and Patriots OL still both got manhandled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Plus they went out and got Ward, Ware, Stewart and Talib as starting defensive FA's. Our analytics guys need to look at this very closely before the draft. This is the first Superbowl winning team ever with less than 200 yds total offense. Yep...they really loaded up....and, if they're smart, they'll franchise Von asap as much as i still hate elway, the guy was one of the greatest qb's to ever play this game period...and what he has done with denver as a gm/vp or whatever his title is, is remarkable...he won this superbowl in my opinion and i'll bet if you ask every member of the team, they would tell you the same thing....especially peyton...i'm sure he is very grateful for elways knowledge on how to win championships....wonder if he used analytics to figure it all out...yeah right He certainly has done a good job....and interesting to see an offensive guy go all defense.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Last 5 Denver drafts....Ray OLB/DE...Roby CB...Williams DT...Wolfe DT...Miller OLB....these guys are the reason Denver won.. While Carolina was tapping the likes of Funchess WR, Benjamin WR, Newton QB, Clausen QB.....AND Kuechly(who's the best player of this group)..... If they're gonna draft O all the time, maybe Carolina should have drafted some OT's too.....those UDFA's were revolving doors... to be fair that O line did handle a lot of good defensive fronts this year. And to be fair to the Carolina D, they didn't really lose that game. These were the two best defense's in the entire league. Who knows if Allen and Davis were 100% the game may have been closer. In my eyes the game broke with a few key plays that had nothing to do with the Carolina D. But if those two key players were at 100% perhaps the small gap between these teams would have been even smaller, who knows. A couple more punishing hits on Manning may have made him fumble another one or two balls himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 The Broncos knew they had him as soon as Von took the ball away and teammates scored the TD. Long but worth reading. This is the kind of D the Browns need to emulate. As close to the '85 Bears I have seen. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/von-miller-s-early-strip-sack-of-cam-newton-set-tone-for-broncos-defense-071049986.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Defense exposes shit quarterbacks. The defense didn't score enough points to win. The offense did. BUT......the one thing you have to admit............Ghoolie knows his shit. I told you Newton wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind. It also exposes shit offensive lines. Unless you are claiming that Brady too is shit QB. Moral of the story: a good QB with a shit offensive line becomes a shit QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 A 4 man rush that can pressure a QB exposes a weak QB. So its your belief that any QB who is pressured by a 4 man front with 2 all pro's is a 'weak' QB? I'm no Cam fan, I don't believe he's the best QB in the league at all....but the only thing weak here is your trollings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Props to Ghoulie! I never thought Denver would win. I just couldn't get the image of how much they sucked against Seattle. But clearly, the defense carried Manning all year! Von Miller deserved MVP! Also Cam Newton played awful! Where was the running game? He was dropping back and getting sacked; something I didn't see all year and I watched all their games. Wade Philips gets the last laugh! It was a brilliant defensive game by Wade. Draft; If we don't get Bosa how about Adolphus Washington or Noah Spence? And is Kevin Hogan any good as a later round pick. We need to think about two QBs IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I didn't catch your prognostications but if you said that the Denver D line would own the Panthers O line like that, which is what caused Newton to be shit......than props. what this game should teach all of you is that a good defense in back to back games made arguably the best QB ever (Brady) and arguably the best QB playing the game "right now" (Newton)....look like Cleveland Browns QB's. Sorry about zinging the home team there but it's true. Those guys looked average as fuck when they only had 2 seconds to get rid of the ball. Anybody that wants a QB with that 1st pick is insane. Especially this year when there's no QB in the draft that has any business starting day one next year. We need production in the trenches RIGHT FUCKING NOW!@!! JEsus H Christ. Why some of you don't get that Tom Brady in his PRIME wouldn't have won more than two extra games for us this season. ANd that might be stretching it. No running game no receivers no defense. But fuck you all want the next golden boy kid coming out of college. For fuck all sakes why? How many times does that have to not work before you guys get it? What fucking good is a franchise QB you can't protect? i believe you are correct...defense wins championships and we have a shit defense...have had a shit defense since 99 except maybe once or twice we rose above shit, but then right back down to shit. Like you, i don't know if there is a good qb in this draft...i know nothing about this goff or the other guy...i watch alot of college football, but never heard of either of these two guys. Hey but who knows, maybe one of them will turn out ok...But still, we need a defense...we need a von miller, ware type players...we gave away tj ward...yeah, great move there fucking blockhead browns fo....oh well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't get it either. People act like it signifies seriousness or something. Like you can't build anything without it. No doubt a McCown led Broncos team still gets a ring, but we'll probably get a QB at #2 and we'll all be so much more pleased about how we lose football games. i think you are correct...imccown could not have won that game....i know this, he has more mobility than peyton and a better arm at this point. not saying much but just saying...peyton had 2 mistakes, I don't think mccown would have done worse...goes to show you, when you have a great defense like that, just about any qb can win...go ask dilfer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Yep...they really loaded up....and, if they're smart, they'll franchise Von asap He certainly has done a good job....and interesting to see an offensive guy go all defense.... no kidding, but he knows. He was gifted not only playing the game, but he is also gifted at football knowledge...He knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 On a positive note - Mitchell Schwartz contained von miller way better than the patriots and panthers did. Maybe we should keep him my guess is he really did not give much effort against schwartz probably because he could have stood there without rushing the passer if he wanted to and they still would have won the game..did not need to waste any energy there...playoffs now, yeah, me thinks he turned it up 5 notches or so. If somehow mitchell was playing for the pats or the panthers, he would have got devoured... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 my guess is he really did not give much effort against schwartz probably because he could have stood there without rushing the passer if he wanted to and they still would have won the game..did not need to waste any energy there...playoffs now, yeah, me thinks he turned it up 5 notches or so. If somehow mitchell was playing for the pats or the panthers, he would have got devoured...I don't think we should discredit him that much - he was one of the best RTs in the league this year. We really need to keep him, and I think if Tom Brady had JT and Schwartz on his team we have a different SB winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
browns52 Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I don't think we should discredit him that much - he was one of the best RTs in the league this year. We really need to keep him, and I think if Tom Brady had JT and Schwartz on his team we have a different SB winner. oh no, i agree. we need to keep him..I just think it was a game situational thing...the browns game was much different than playing in the playoffs. I think miller would have excelled against anyone last night...just the situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Defense exposes shit quarterbacks. The defense didn't score enough points to win. The offense did. BUT......the one thing you have to admit............Ghoolie knows his shit. I told you Newton wouldn't know whether to shit or go blind. Defense didn't score enough to win, but they did set up easy field goals on those fumbles. A great D can make any qb look bad- as was previously stated, Denver's D made one of the all time greats (Brady) look like crap the week before. and in case you forgot already- they had a large hand in beating the Steelers the week before that..... "With Denver down 13-12 with less than 10 minutes left, cornerback Bradley Roby punched the ball from Toussaint's arms and teammate Demarcus Ware recovered at the Denver 35-yard line. Ware's sack ended Pittsburgh's next drive and McManus kicked his fifth field goal, tying the NFL playoff record." It was great to see Terry Bradshaw. 4 time SB winner, 2-time SB MVP, and in my mind, the greatest QB to ever play the game. Did you see how good Cam Newton threw the football? On one pass he hit his OC in the nutsack. If you read Ag's link- Denver's defense got in Camshaft's head early. He got spooked, and they just continued to blast him. Seven sacks, and a couple forced fumbles. Yup- as good as he looked against Arizona, he looked as bad against the Broncos. Plenty of errant passes. That type of beating will make any quarterback look like garbage. Plus they went out and got Ward, Ware, Stewart and Talib as starting defensive FA's. Our analytics guys need to look at this very closely before the draft. This is the first Superbowl winning team ever with less than 200 yds total offense. Yup- why Farmer is currently unemployed. He not only let Ward walk, add Rubin, Sheard, and Skrine to the list. Whitner was no upgrade, and he's older. They're all starting for other teams- holes we wouldn't have had to fill. I really don't have an objection to this thread, believe it or not. Manning did what he had to, but he gave a performance not that different from Trent Dilfer and the Ravens SB win over NY, although Dilfer had a Passing TD. It isn't JUST great defense, it is what makes the defense great. When a team can pressure a QB with 4 men, the LBS and DBS are running downhill all game long. For a VERY short period of time, Butch Davis had that kind of Front 4, right before it all fell apart. I liked Butch Davis for that, he believed in a big, fast, QB disrupting DL. Montana, Marino, Fouts, Stabler, would have tested that D and put up points. But those kind of QBs are few and far between. Certainly you saw how average Newton was. His passes were made to look like liquid shit. Should the Browns stack up on D, going Bosa, if they REALLY go after QB pressure, I am okay with it. I agree Newton looked average in that game, but it was one game, and not representative at all of how he played the rest of the year. His League MVP was well deserved, IMHO. As I've said many times in a playoff game long, long ago Lawrence Taylor and the Giants D made Joe Montana look like Joe Blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The most astounding thing was the gap between the best and 4th best Defenses. Shows that is a very hard road to the Championship. my guess is he really did not give much effort against schwartz probably because he could have stood there without rushing the passer if he wanted to and they still would have won the game..did not need to waste any energy there... Guess again... While I won't dispute it's easier to get up for any SB opponent than a Week 6 visit to us, I've no doubt that the big factor was Ware missing the game. While Ware's replacement Barrett had a great game, Miller was virtually shut out. It was clear which Edge player was the focus of our Offensive attention. I think Ware would have divided that attention substantially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The most astounding thing was the gap between the best and 4th best Defenses. Shows that is a very hard road to the Championship. Guess again... While I won't dispute it's easier to get up for any SB opponent than a Week 6 visit to us, I've no doubt that the big factor was Ware missing the game. While Ware's replacement Barrett had a great game, Miller was virtually shut out. It was clear which Edge player was the focus of our Offensive attention. I think Ware would have divided that attention substantially. Totally agree. That is a dynamic duo that clearly respect and help one another play far better than either could do alone. Ware said he went to Miller on the sidelines and said, "Ok it's Miller time! Get after 'em now." That little inspirational talk produced the first strip/sack for the TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Gotta love the fat old man perspective on who and why someone won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmusch Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Defense did win the championship however don't forget two number one overall QBs were playing against one another. Great game though the defenses on both sides came to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownPile Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Absolutely agree with OP. Defense is king in this game. Unfortunately, the situation here is going to force a QB draft with first pick and then playing this guy way too early in his development. IMO, by building offense first, this will delay playoff contention by at least a year. So, strap in for a 4-5 year build, then. Unless owner changes his mind and decides to build through FA and hires proven defensive talent. BTW, while this board was down last night, I checked out the Carolina forum. There is a thread where some of their fans actually thought they would have won if they played Derek Anderson instead of Newton... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Kind of makes me sour how the broncos have bradley roby and we have justin gilbert. they have our boy TJ Ward who we didn't even ask to stay and we don't. I miss Ward, I felt like having him around made our Dbacks and Safeties better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 We drafted/signed and developed both Ward and Gipson, who have evolved in to two of the best safeties in the league. On Ray Farmer's watch, one left and the other would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is not the first time a team has bailed out an aging QB with it's defense to win him a Superbowl. In fact that defense bailed out two aging QB's at the same time, Johnny U (37) and Earl Morrall (36) in Superbowl V back in 1971 when they beat the self-proclaimed America's team (Cowboys) 16-13. Ironically it was Dallas's Chuck Howley who was awarded MVP in a losing cause. Johnny U. had a rib injury during the game and Morrall took them to the winning score set up by the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 The most astounding thing was the gap between the best and 4th best Defenses. Shows that is a very hard road to the Championship. Why do you think there was a huge gap between the defense's? Carolina was in Peytons grill all game long too. Difference is Peyton knew he couldn't hold the ball. That's where Peyton won the game for the Broncos. Newton just kept thinking eventually my line is gonna get a handle on this rush, and he kept holding the ball way too long. But then again there was nothing downfield for him either. But from the game I watched the defense's were neck and neck till perhaps the end. Imo what gives the Broncos the slight edge overall is their secondary. Front 7 is virtually a wash imo. If had the option of teleporting a defense to the Browns I'd probably still take the Panthers 4-3 cause they got those two great ILB'ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gftChris Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 If had the option of teleporting a defense to the Browns I'd probably still take the Panthers 4-3 cause they got those two great ILB'ers. I love two great ILBs in a 4-3 me. Can't beat them... You'd also have to say that Sanders and Thomas were more likely to get open (and quickly) against Norman and CB2, than Ginn and Crotchety against Harris and Talib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted February 9, 2016 Report Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why do you think there was a huge gap between the defense's? Carolina was in Peytons grill all game long too. Difference is Peyton knew he couldn't hold the ball. That's where Peyton won the game for the Broncos. Newton just kept thinking eventually my line is gonna get a handle on this rush, and he kept holding the ball way too long. But then again there was nothing downfield for him either. But from the game I watched the defense's were neck and neck till perhaps the end. Imo what gives the Broncos the slight edge overall is their secondary. Front 7 is virtually a wash imo. If had the option of teleporting a defense to the Browns I'd probably still take the Panthers 4-3 cause they got those two great ILB'ers. I'd stick with the Broncos D and their two great OLBs. Folks other than Miller don't give enough credit for how the middle of the D shut down the Carolina running game to allow those two to operate on Cam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8R0W5QqWjIg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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