Preseason Game Recap Week 4

[BrownieMan]

Here's a good recap of the game for those who missed it. Pretty disappointing game in my opinion from the QB's, especially Manziel. Was not accurate at all.

 

Here is the link: http://walterfootball.com/preseason2014week4.php

[gftChris]

Things I noticed watching the game:

 

Mingo still needs to learn how to tackle - he's getting in to the backfield a lot this pre-season, but not wrapping up. Sometimes he gets a split sack/assist, sometimes the ball carrier gets away.

Gilbert still needs to learn how to tackle - seems like he's going for the bigger play, the pick or the strip, rather than just wrapping up. Saw it against the rams, saw it again this morning/last night.

Taylor Gabriel - this kid is making the 53, no question. Ray Farmer was looking for a UDFA to step up, looks like Gabriel's the guy. He just seems to to get open and make catches. Not to mention his return ability.

Leon McFadden does *not* turn his head around to locate the ball. The big PI in the first quarter, he made a nice play breaking up the pass, but because he hadn't turned to look at the ball and was in contact with the receiver, he got flagged.

Jim Dray - I'd forgotten about him. Didn't we give him like $5m?

Nate Burleson had some nice catches, which is, erm, something. At least he didn't drop them. On this team that's enough to see him in the 53, my guess.

Our whole D didn't look overly impressive, even though they were going against a 2nd string offense with a rookie QB. That is concerning.

Terrence West - 6 carries, 13 yards. Again, unimpressive.

willie snead had a mixed night, with one drop that was slightly behind him, and one nice catch/run on an crossing route.

Marquis gray - why is he on the roster? He offered nothing in this game, to go with his fumbles in the previous game. Not a receiver. Not a great blocker.

Rex Grossman looked like the backup he is. Some solid throws, some dodgy throws, knows the offense. Nothing unexpected.

Charles Johnson showed up with a nice catch across the middle.

Isiah Crowell finally got some time and looked decent against the 3s.

Robert Nelson - who? Nice pick, good job locating the ball, though if the balls on target it's a completion because nelson's a step or two behind - why he got the pick. Didn't see anything else of him.

 

3rd downs. Again. Not great.

 

And JF - high risk, low reward so far. Looks very smooth running. Looks good throwing on the run. Looks a whole lot less good from the pocket. Another strip sack - at what point do we start to worry about ball security?

[TexasAg1969]

I was pleased with how well Hoyer moved the team in his brief appearance. That bodes well for the season. JM still in the learning curve. you can bet he gets to see a lot of replays on his poor ball security this week with a message that unless that changes he does not see the field. I also thought Rex played decently and I hope he is retained. Best shot we have to keep all 4 is to waive Shaw and hope he clears to the practice squad. Grossman is the experienced backup this team needs at the moment.

 

Got to find a way to retain Crowell-has some serious speed with that bowling ball build. I doubt he would clear waivers.

 

Defense will be ready for Pitt. I like our chances!

[MLD Woody]

How dare you talk negatively about Gray. He's our Swiss army knife. Dude has to make the team.

[Bammer]

A little snippet from the Dallas game summary, not that anyone is surprised but;

 

"The Cowboys are going to be in big trouble if/when Tony Romo gets hurt. Brandon Weeden sucks. He went 6-of-12 for 75 yards and a pick, which was a forced throw. He had several poor throws in which he missed his targets by a mile".

[cuwoohio]

One thing that's finally starting to happen is the play calling for Manziel is starting to fit his style. The coaches are coming around to him.

[gftChris]

How dare you talk negatively about Gray. He's our Swiss army knife. Dude has to make the team.

Like Ogbonnaya last year?

[MasterDog]

After watching Derek Carr, Bridgewater and Bortles all preseason sling the ball around with accuracy and poise, it makes me cringe watching JM throw.....he's not going to make it in this league if he can't throw the ball accurately.

 

One positive out of last night's game. Hoyer looked poise and in rhythm.

[TexasAg1969]

Don't be such a negative Nancy MD. Once he graduates from the thinking mode to the athletic player mode his passes will revert to what he really can do, throw with accuracy. You give up way too easy on someone still learning a totally new offense for him. He does not have Hoyer's's or Grossman's experience with the system. Neither did several great QB's in the league when they first started out.

[gftChris]

It makes me want him to sit and work on his pocket presence, protection calling, the 'Peyton Manning' things. Because his improvisation, scrambling, evasion and throwing-on-the-run skills are excellent. If he can sort out his traditional QB skills in the next year, working with Hoyer/Grossman as a mentor, then we have a heck of a QB. If not, we have a running back.

[cvcanedy]

It makes me want him to sit and work on his pocket presence, protection calling, the 'Peyton Manning' things. Because his improvisation, scrambling, evasion and throwing-on-the-run skills are excellent. If he can sort out his traditional QB skills in the next year, working with Hoyer/Grossman as a mentor, then we have a heck of a QB. If not, we have a running back.

I just can't stand to watch so many broken plays. It wears out the OL and looks sloppy. I think with time thirds will reduce.

[MasterDog]

Don't be such a negative Nancy MD. Once he graduates from the thinking mode to the athletic player mode his passes will revert to what he really can do, throw with accuracy. You give up way too easy on someone still learning a totally new offense for him. He does not have Hoyer's's or Grossman's experience with the system. Neither did several great QB's in the league when they first started out.

 

Dude was playing against 2nd and 3rd string defense. He should had lite it up!

You can work on your mechanics to improve "accuracy", but throwing the football with accuracy is something you can't teach.You either have it or not at this stage of his career.

[jrb12711]

Here's some more opinions from the game I noticed

 

-Overall, the team just looked more in sync which is great to see. I know a lot was against 2nd strings, but throws, runs and tackles were more crisp.

 

-McFadden has been nothing short of terrible this preseason. It was said previously but the guy gets good position but doesn't turn his damn head around. That has been drawing a flag for 10 years in the NFL, there's no excusing it at this point. I'll be interested if he makes the roster

 

-What a tough choice at the RB position. I'm not blown away by West, but Crowell really showed some things and has potential to be really good. However Obi is an established vet who is solid on special teams. I'm curious if they go with experience over potential for the final 53 there. I'd think Lewis is a lock, but who knows. What's for sure is that Crowell would be picked up by someone before making it to the PS.

 

-Manziel is getting better as each week goes on, but thank goodness he's not starting week one. I think another little while of practice and learning will do the guy wonders. I was happy to see Manziel get out of bounds or slide when he ran too. The throws on the other hand, yikes.

 

-I know people are against this, but I'd be fine having Grossman as the 3rd string. I could be way off base but I'm sure we could keep Shaw for the practice squad and promote him if needed. I'd rather have a 3rd string guy be a vet than a raw rookie.

 

-Can we talk about Kirksey? I swear if you didn't tell me different I'd think that guy was an established player. Let's hope he keeps it up throughout the season and beyond. What a potential steal he is.

[miktoxic]

to the OP:

 

i don't know what game you were watching but the game i saw, hoyer looked really good. got rid of the ball quickly, with accuracy and a lot of zip on the ball. i was also impressed with manziel's escapabilty and able to complete passes downfield after the line had broken down. i will say that he has been very lucky so far, because half the time when he decides to break away from the pocket he runs forward first into the middle of a pile and i feel one of these days there will be someone bearing down on him that he doesn't see and will hurt this kid BUT that being said he was fun to watch and if anything negative i saw was the floaters he was throwing down field. hoyer obviously has the better arm of the 2.

 

crowell was running like a beast. west was so-so and has to work on protecting the ball (as does manziel). our 2 TEs are legit and hawkins will probably be the QB's go to receiver.

 

was pretty impressed with our D especially the pressure getting to the QB. mcfadden sucked ass for 2 1/2 qtrs, gilbert looked green but i'm really thinking pettine is throwing every one but the starters out there to see who can do what. i wouldn't be surprised to see 2-3 dbs getting cut off this squad.

[miktoxic]

-I know people are against this, but I'd be fine having Grossman as the 3rd string. I could be way off base but I'm sure we could keep Shaw for the practice squad and promote him if needed. I'd rather have a 3rd string guy be a vet than a raw rookie.

 

i agreed with everything until this point.

 

we know what rex has to offer and that ain't much. might as well have kept weeden as a backup if you're going to play grossman. if we're looking to play our 3rd string QB let's just say our season would be lost anyways so why not see what shaw can give you?

[gftChris]

 

i agreed with everything until this point.

 

we know what rex has to offer and that ain't much. might as well have kept weeden as a backup if you're going to play grossman. if we're looking to play our 3rd string QB let's just say our season would be lost anyways so why not see what shaw can give you?

If at all possible, I make Rex our QB coach/offensive assistant of some kind, and make Shaw 3rd string.

[jrb12711]

 

i agreed with everything until this point.

 

we know what rex has to offer and that ain't much. might as well have kept weeden as a backup if you're going to play grossman. if we're looking to play our 3rd string QB let's just say our season would be lost anyways so why not see what shaw can give you?

 

Well I don't generally disagree, but I'm strongly assuming Shaw could make it to our practice squad and be signed there. Again, I really have no basis in that but I'd be shocked if it didn't happen. With that being the case, we can always call the guy up if the 3rd string QB really becomes needed. I'm not sure how true this is, but I've heard Grossman has a good rapport with Hoyer and Manziel along with all the coaches. They mentioned too during the broadcast that he's going to be "an eye in the sky" so to speak watching both guys play and offering advice. I understand Sexy Rexy isn't Tomy Brady, but the guy is a long term NFL vet who has seen high level play (Super Bowl still blows my mind but hey). That's something Shaw can't and won't bring to the table. There's also a lot of truth it seems to these mediocre QB's from the NFL being really good mentors/coaches.

[Ibleedbrown]

Things I noticed watching the game:

 

Mingo still needs to learn how to tackle - he's getting in to the backfield a lot this pre-season, but not wrapping up. Sometimes he gets a split sack/assist, sometimes the ball carrier gets away.

Gilbert still needs to learn how to tackle - seems like he's going for the bigger play, the pick or the strip, rather than just wrapping up. Saw it against the rams, saw it again this morning/last night.

Taylor Gabriel - this kid is making the 53, no question. Ray Farmer was looking for a UDFA to step up, looks like Gabriel's the guy. He just seems to to get open and make catches. Not to mention his return ability.

Leon McFadden does *not* turn his head around to locate the ball. The big PI in the first quarter, he made a nice play breaking up the pass, but because he hadn't turned to look at the ball and was in contact with the receiver, he got flagged.

Jim Dray - I'd forgotten about him. Didn't we give him like $5m?

Nate Burleson had some nice catches, which is, erm, something. At least he didn't drop them. On this team that's enough to see him in the 53, my guess.

Our whole D didn't look overly impressive, even though they were going against a 2nd string offense with a rookie QB. That is concerning.

Terrence West - 6 carries, 13 yards. Again, unimpressive.

willie snead had a mixed night, with one drop that was slightly behind him, and one nice catch/run on an crossing route.

Marquis gray - why is he on the roster? He offered nothing in this game, to go with his fumbles in the previous game. Not a receiver. Not a great blocker.

Rex Grossman looked like the backup he is. Some solid throws, some dodgy throws, knows the offense. Nothing unexpected.

Charles Johnson showed up with a nice catch across the middle.

Isiah Crowell finally got some time and looked decent against the 3s.

Robert Nelson - who? Nice pick, good job locating the ball, though if the balls on target it's a completion because nelson's a step or two behind - why he got the pick. Didn't see anything else of him.

 

3rd downs. Again. Not great.

 

And JF - high risk, low reward so far. Looks very smooth running. Looks good throwing on the run. Looks a whole lot less good from the pocket. Another strip sack - at what point do we start to worry about ball security?

Mingo is a pretty impressive player l think. He has the ability to contort his body and change direction unlike few l've seen. I think that's why he's near the ball carrier on a lot of plays, but not necessarily in a position to make a tackle due to the wierd angles he has to take. I still like it if it forces a rushed throw or a change it route for the RB.

 

Did anyone catch that Shaw didn't attempt a pass? The conspiracy theorist in me thinks he was told to not pass, possibly to lower his stock so they could slip him onto the PS.

 

Gabriel and Snead l hope did enough to make it onto the big 53. Gabriel for sure. I got the impression throughout the small sample size that is the preseason that Manziel and Snead work well together, like they're on the same page even if the play breaks down.

 

McFadded, McFadded, McFadden... I almost felt like they left him out there just hoping he would give them an excuse to tear up his pink slip. Not sure he did though. When the receiver looks for the ball, that's your cue man.

 

And how about our FB Agnew? Guy's like a brick shithouse on a hydraulic lift. Can we nickname him Spear o' the Agnew?

[miktoxic]

 

Well I don't generally disagree, but I'm strongly assuming Shaw could make it to our practice squad and be signed there. Again, I really have no basis in that but I'd be shocked if it didn't happen. With that being the case, we can always call the guy up if the 3rd string QB really becomes needed. I'm not sure how true this is, but I've heard Grossman has a good rapport with Hoyer and Manziel along with all the coaches. They mentioned too during the broadcast that he's going to be "an eye in the sky" so to speak watching both guys play and offering advice. I understand Sexy Rexy isn't Tomy Brady, but the guy is a long term NFL vet who has seen high level play (Super Bowl still blows my mind but hey). That's something Shaw can't and won't bring to the table. There's also a lot of truth it seems to these mediocre QB's from the NFL being really good mentors/coaches.

 

and it also doesn't hurt that he's familiar with shanny jr.'s system.

[miktoxic]

the biggest surprise on a positive note had to be crowell. dude reminded me of a YOUNG marshawn lynch.

[tiamat63]

Actually that's a very fair comparison. I myself would be in favor of letting Gray go, having Oby as our H back so we can develop this young man. Or having Lewis listed on roster as a WR since Gordon is now out.

[Tour2ma]

Defense first...

 

I love seeing blitz packages again where someone gets a free run at the QB. It seems like the last I saw them on a consistent basis was back when Rob (the Good) Ryan was our DC.

 

Without Haden and Skrine, our starting CBs, playing we are not going to look that strong. Gilbert has a ways to go... he'll have a role, but we knew he was being drafted for his potential. McFadden has a ways to go... several hundred miles down I-77. Berry looked decent. Can Desir (remember him?) get out of the tub?

 

As much as I hate to admit Solomon Wilcotts says anything worth a damn, he nailed our Safeties situation... strong and with depth. Special Special-Teamer Leonhard's heads-up play has surprised me most of all.

 

I thought Mingo had bulked up??? Looks like he melted in TC. Kirksey has been a surprise to me. I did not think a "decent" college OLB would look so good at ILB. Dansby is as billed. It'll be nice to see a FA live up to his promise. I still think Sheard and Kruger need to be in a D where their hands are on the ground. Carder vs. Diles may be the toughest cut-down call the staff faces. I think Diles stays. At OLB Staples looks safe, but I still like Westerman.

 

And the best for last... our D-line... even the scrubs, Barnett and McDaniel looked decent. Have a feeling though that one vet, Hughes, may not make the 53...

[tiamat63]

Defense first...

 

I love seeing blitz packages again where someone gets a free run at the QB. It seems like the last I saw them on a consistent basis was back when Rob (the Good) Ryan was our DC.

 

Without Haden and Skrine, our starting CBs, playing we are not going to look that strong. Gilbert has a ways to go... he'll have a role, but we knew he was being drafted for his potential. McFadden has a ways to go... several hundred miles down I-77. Berry looked decent. Can Desir (remember him?) get out of the tub?

 

As much as I hate to admit Solomon Wilcotts says anything worth a damn, he nailed our Safeties situation... strong and with depth. Special Special-Teamer Leonhard's heads-up play has surprised me most of all.

 

I thought Mingo had bulked up??? Looks like he melted in TC. Kirksey has been a surprise to me. I did not think a "decent" college OLB would look so good at ILB. Dansby is as billed. It'll be nice to see a FA live up to his promise. I still think Sheard and Kruger need to be in a D where their hands are on the ground. Carder vs. Diles may be the toughest cut-down call the staff faces. I think Diles stays. At OLB Staples looks safe, but I still like Westerman.

 

And the best for last... our D-line... even the scrubs, Barnett and McDaniel looked decent. Have a feeling though that one vet, Hughes, may not make the 53...

 

It would be a damn shame if Hughes didn't make it. Aside from Weeden, he was the next big reach I was pissed about that ended up holding his own. (For the record I still think he could have been had later in the draft)

I myself would have no issue keeping Hughes and letting Barnett or McDaniel sit on the practice squad a bit until they get more time in with a NFL conditioning staff. Both can be difference makers very soon. Especially in the AFC North when having run stoppers is critical in November - January.

 

I've always liked Leonard. I have a soft spot for the smart, scappy defensive players that use their brains more than athletic ability. I also believe that with Haden and Skrine back at %100 health you'll see a greater emergence of Gipson.

He's the best safety nobody is talking about. Teams now know they have to account for him and it would not shock me if he gets a pro-bowl alternate nod.

 

Mingo might be a few pounds heavier, but I don't think he's quite 245. Close, but certainly not above it. The only thing that concerns me about Kiki is how the staff uses him. I know we like to align to the offenses strength, but if Mingo is on the backside of a play, he needs to be able to hold his ground against cutbacks or the counter. Especially not getting to far upside or flying down the LOS too fast.

 

Honestly at this point between Sheard and Kruger I'm hoping both have strong seasons because they're essentially the same player. A good showing from both would be trade bait for a team with a need at pass rusher. Don't get me wrong, its nice to have either in with the 2nd team Dline to make sure that the pass rush stays consistent. But you're throwing good money at Kruger whilst you can't have Sheard on the field with him simultaneously barring very obvious passing downs.

[hoorta]

Things I noticed watching the game:

 

Taylor Gabriel - this kid is making the 53, no question. Ray Farmer was looking for a UDFA to step up, looks like Gabriel's the guy. He just seems to to get open and make catches. Not to mention his return ability.

Leon McFadden does *not* turn his head around to locate the ball. The big PI in the first quarter, he made a nice play breaking up the pass, but because he hadn't turned to look at the ball and was in contact with the receiver, he got flagged.

Marquis gray - why is he on the roster? He offered nothing in this game, to go with his fumbles in the previous game. Not a receiver. Not a great blocker.

And JF - high risk, low reward so far. Looks very smooth running. Looks good throwing on the run. Looks a whole lot less good from the pocket. Another strip sack - at what point do we start to worry about ball security?

 

Agree Gabriel makes the final 53. You forgot about Kirksey, who probably will start day 1 against the Steelers. Other than the fumbling, I like Gray to make the roster- he did have a couple nice catches.

 

I agree with Tour- McFadden needs to be cut- like today. When he's not drawing a PI or holding call, he's getting beat like a drum. Another wasted pick.

 

I was pleased with how well Hoyer moved the team in his brief appearance. That bodes well for the season. JM still in the learning curve. you can bet he gets to see a lot of replays on his poor ball security this week with a message that unless that changes he does not see the field. I also thought Rex played decently and I hope he is retained. Best shot we have to keep all 4 is to waive Shaw and hope he clears to the practice squad. Grossman is the experienced backup this team needs at the moment.

 

Got to find a way to retain Crowell-has some serious speed with that bowling ball build. I doubt he would clear waivers.

 

Defense will be ready for Pitt. I like our chances!

 

Thanks for refreshing my memory about the ball security issue with Manziel AG. 100% agree, you can't be holding the ball like a loaf of bread when you're scrambling around.

 

Hoyer finally played last night like the guy we saw in those games last year. Yeah- it was against the scrubs, but encouraging nonetheless.

[Canton Mike]

Don't be such a negative Nancy MD. Once he graduates from the thinking mode to the athletic player mode his passes will revert to what he really can do, throw with accuracy. You give up way too easy on someone still learning a totally new offense for him. He does not have Hoyer's's or Grossman's experience with the system. Neither did several great QB's in the league when they first started out.

 

I have been saying this from the start. Johnny has all the tools, including INTELLIGENCE. He is not at fault for the simplistic offense from which he came. It just means he had far more to learn, which he is doing. As Tex stated so well, as soon as Johnny has learned & is totally comfortable with the playbook, reading Ds, etc, then it's ALL instincts. THEN he will light this league up! He has all the tools (but physical size): athleticism, intelligence, spirit, a HUGE competitive nature, and PRIDE! He is his own worst critic, & that makes for a winner. This old codger is totally sold on Johnny!

 

Mike

[Tour2ma]

... as soon as Johnny has learned & is totally comfortable with the playbook, reading Ds, etc, then it's ALL instincts.

.. or then it's been learned...

 

The key is knowing so you do not have to think. Knowledge is the product of learning... not "instincts".