WarrenDawg Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Does anyone have the time, or will, to list all of the QB controversies we've had since '99? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Does McCowns one fumble outweigh Johnnys interception and 4 fumbles?....(or was it 5?).....cause he definitely gave the Jets some seriously good field position..... And, when Josh does make a mistake(and he will).....ugh.....cause NOW the Johnny brigate will demand perfection from him....or else.....first screw up and they'll all be screaming JOHNNY, as if he would be mistake free......BOOK IT! I'm not in the Johnny brigade, don't worry that's well documented I'm just very far from the McCown brigade. McCown sucking is pretty well established so it's not a surprise when it happens. At least with Johnny there's hope his mistakes will lessen over time. Conversely, McCown has fumbled on 100% of the drives he's played in this year. It can be spun many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Does anyone have the time, or will, to list all of the QB controversies we've had since '99? NO!..... I would say there have been no "legitimate" controversies....just made up ones.....cause they all sucked... So, lots of people screaming for the "next" one, but never based upon his actually playing or being a better QB.... Nope....most have been based upon "this one sucks, so that one must be the right choice"...... Grass is greener, yada yada..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I don't like fumbling on the end zone and giving the opponent the ball at their own 35. I don't care how about drive, passion, effort he put in. Being stupid will lose you football games. Total momentum swing and demoralizer that set the tone of the game. If (I know that ifs and buts were candy and nuts...) but "if" McCown doesn't fumble, most everyone (except the dumbest of Manzealots - which we have several) is calling him a gutsy gamer, who's tough as nails. Again, he drove the team 90 plus yds, on the road, against a tough D............. I don't know about you, but I sure want to see more of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Brown fan Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This is a smart move. McCown is clearly the better qb right now. He would have beaten the Titans, and might have beaten the Jets, if not for that flukey goal-line hit. Obviously I wish Johnny was playing, but not much has changed. It's week 3, McCown is still better, Johnny still needs to get better. Also, if the defense keeps it up, this could be a playoff team. You have to give yourself the best chance to win NOW. If nothing else, the team now knows that the backup can come in and win games if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Does anyone have the time, or will, to list all of the QB controversies we've had since '99? Jesus, Mary and Joseph do you really want to rekindle that mess? As understand it, there was a huge board rift on here because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This is a smart move. McCown is clearly the better qb right now. He would have beaten the Titans, and might have beaten the Jets, if not for that flukey goal-line hit. Obviously I wish Johnny was playing, but not much has changed. It's week 3, McCown is still better, Johnny still needs to get better. Also, if the defense keeps it up, this could be a playoff team. You have to give yourself the best chance to win NOW. If nothing else, the team now knows that the backup can come in and win games if needed. Very intelligent post from one of us who has believed in Johnny yet understands he'll have his time. I've bolded a statement that bodes well for the Browns. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I think it had more to do with the fumbles. Ouch! Worst comment on NFL Network? "This is just the Browns being the Browns" I hate that shit. It looks like the major networks only prop up a handful of teams, and it's getting real old. Of course, until we turn this thing around we won't be in any positive conversations nationally. What ever happened to rooting for an underdog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 If (I know that ifs and buts were candy and nuts...) but "if" McCown doesn't fumble, most everyone (except the dumbest of Manzealots - which we have several) is calling him a gutsy gamer, who's tough as nails. Again, he drove the team 90 plus yds, on the road, against a tough D............. I don't know about you, but I sure want to see more of that. It was a great drive up to the last play, and McCown looked good and had receivers drop a couple passes. Personally, I don't expect McCown will look that good very often based on his last 10+ years in the league though. The Raiders should be a cake walk for him though - terrible defense, no pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Only eight completions in a game does not smack of being "ready." Especially in a dumbed-down offensive game plan. Johnny didn't really move the team much, save one drive that ended in Crowell's rushing TD. Manziel's inability to move the chains was masked by the two bombs to Benjamin, and Travis' punt return for a TD. Manziel fumbled three times on Sunday. Every time he got hit when he was in the pocket the ball ended up on the ground. Better ball control is mandatory. Johnny's progress from last year to this season is significant. Unfortunately he still has a ways to go before getting the keys to the car. If Pettine says that McCown gives the Browns the best chance to win, I'm behind him. Trust in Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonedawg Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I don't know if Johnny is going to end up being the guy, but let's be honest, does anyone on this board think we have a shot at the Super Bowl this year? So let's say McCown is the better option this season, and we win an extra game or two with him at the helm. We end up 7-9 or 8-8. What is the point of the extra two wins with McCown? There would be some legitimacy to that argument if we were a bubble playoff team, but we just aren't that team. Starting Manziel at least lets us find out if he is the guy or we need to look elsewhere. I just don't buy that waiting a year to start Manziel so he can develop and learn is somehow going to dramatically change the results. Somehow starting him this year turns him into a bust and if we would have only waited until next year he would have been a HOFer. We shouldn't be delusional about McCown either. He was 2-14 last year for the fucking trainwreck Bucs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 i really don't get the reaction here. manziel still practices correct? so how is not playing him on sunday stunting his growth? being on the sidelines, watching and learning and at the drop of a dime maybe having to replace his injured comrade is hardly holding him back. it's the best of both worlds right now. he's got his teacher back. what you guys don't look at the bench between series and see mccown huddled with manziel and flip? i guess he's not learning anything there, just likes to huddle with men. geez, give pettine a break. got the old man back and the kid continues to win over fans, even if he's not on the field. i mean i feel 100% more confidence in manziel today than i did all of last year. and didn't we do the 'let's see what johnny has got' last year? i mean i think they pretty much know what they have in manziel. if not, then they need to fire themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 If McCown was to lose his starting job due to injury and going all out on a play to score a touchdown at the 2 yard line I hate to think about the message that would send to other players on the team. In the back of their minds they would have to think if they laid it all out on the field and got injured it could cost them their starting job. I'm tired of reading this. Alex Smith in SF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I just don't buy that waiting a year to start Manziel so he can develop and learn is somehow going to dramatically change the results. Why is everyone so sure it will be a year???......hasnt he already played in 2 out of 2 games?.....and, suddenly Josh is gonna be fine for the next 14 weeks?.....HA!.... I dont think the Browns are saying lets sit him for "the year".....right now, they are saying Josh will start this week.....big diff.... Now....if Josh drops back 40 times and in those 40 snaps he fumbles 5 times, throws an INT and takes 5 sacks, what will people say?.......cause those are Johnnys numbers so far......(meaning more than 1/4 of his plays have been complete busts)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Manziel's inability to move the chains was masked by the two bombs to Benjamin, and Travis' punt return for a TD. His inability to move the chains was masked by the inability of the coaches to be less than superconservative (read that entirely predictable) in the 3rd and 4th quarters and set him up for 3rd and long which is a sackers wet dream. The second bomb was set up by moving the chains from the 20 to the 50. The second TD was set up by moving them deep into the red zone. The first bomb was a planned play off a correct reading of the D by both QB and receiver. None of it was luck. Get your facts straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I'm tired of reading this. Alex Smith in SF? Just because you dig up an example, doesnt mean its the right way to go......there are perhaps a million examples of the opposite too....correct?.... I would also point out that Kap was playing "great" when Smith lost his job and then played terrible and now good again?....its pretty debatable if he's even better than Smith .....and, lets be real, Johnny aint playing great or better than anybody.......just good enough to show he doesnt suck as bad as he looked the first few games........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Ok but I'm sorry, you can lose your job after an injury. It's not some rule in the rulebook of cohesive locker rooms that you have to start after an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Ok but I'm sorry, you can lose your job after an injury. It's not some rule in the rulebook of cohesive locker rooms that you have to start after an injury. Of course its not a rule.....but it does set a precedent.... But if your gonna bench someone and replace them with someone else....I think the underlying thoughts should be... 1)Did the injured guy not play well?.....(cause Josh did) 2) Did the replacement guy play better?....(cause Johnny didnt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 At 12:20pm EST, the NFL Network is going to carry Pet's press conference live...... I'm not really into the whole body language thing, but I do believe the poker tell that "a bluffer often touches their face". Saw two face touches in the 17-minute presser... one in the opening remarks, one roughly midway... I make my living as a coach and I like to say........ Parents see the tip of the iceberg, coaches see the whole iceberg - D Bone ... and sometimes see an iceberg that does not even exist? The only problem I see, is eventually McCown will revert back to old-McCown and start turning the ball over. Hopefully not, but I just see it happening down the road... Setting aside that there are two, old McCowns... I think it's far preferable to have Josh regress than a prodigy of his that is judged not yet ready. For one, you would have a QB actually picked without interference from the owner. Someone they feel can actually do the job. Second, the rook would have at least a year behind McCown to learn. Hopefully a kid that doesn't spend that year being a drunk and not reading a play book. There's a business theory that endorses the concept of "Fast Failures". It brings with it many positives, some of which... like cost savings... do not apply here. It also brings numerous negatives... like missing opportunities that would have developed given more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This is a smart move. McCown is clearly the better qb right now. He would have beaten the Titans, and might have beaten the Jets, if not for that flukey goal-line hit. Obviously I wish Johnny was playing, but not much has changed. It's week 3, McCown is still better, Johnny still needs to get better. Also, if the defense keeps it up, this could be a playoff team. You have to give yourself the best chance to win NOW. If nothing else, the team now knows that the backup can come in and win games if needed. Agree, but I had fun switching sides of the JM argument for a while... I think it was either Dilfer or Jaws that has talked about while good backups could win a game here and there, the longer the string of games they played, the poorer their results got... likely due to defensive game plans. Just maybe we have two good backups that by design or happenstance end up rotating every couple games. Jesus, Mary and Joseph do you really want to rekindle that mess? As understand it, there was a huge board rift on here because of that. Jesus by far had the best arm of that bunch... It was a great drive up to the last play, and McCown looked good and had receivers drop a couple passes. Personally, I don't expect McCown will look that good very often based on his last 10+ years in the league though. The Raiders should be a cake walk for him though - terrible defense, no pass rush. One... don't sleep on the Raiders... Two... you may well be right, Josh may revert to his career-long, established mean. But irrational as it may be, until he does, I'm still in the can-be-the-Chicago-Josh camp. Circumstances certainly lean that way to my eye... I can't get too upset about the decision. The idea that McCown did nothing to deserve to lose the job resonates with me, and he's a likeable guy that you want to root for. He better play pretty well, though, because the fan base is going to demand Manziel at the first sign of trouble. If McCown wants to keep the job, he's going to have to perform at a higher level than he essentially ever has. I don't know that this team has the weapons to make that likely. As much as I like your posts there always seems to be one, new, little bit I react to. Already got the "fan base... demands" exposure yesterday, so pretty immune to that today... Today it was "likable guy"... Somehow an extraneous influence is ascribed to rationalize QBs ending up in front of JM... last year it was "local boy". i mean i feel 100% more confidence in manziel today than i did all of last year. Any positive level divided by zero is ">>" 100%. Steve, there will be a quiz... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 i thought i'd get someone with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Any positive level divided by zero is ">>" 100%. Steve, there will be a quiz... Ha!....very well said..... Though, while Ive had zero confidence that Johnny will ever produce at a high level.....my hope meter has been much MUCH higher with Johnny than most of the others who came before him......(still there too) I think its that whole "ceiling" thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Of course its not a rule.....but it does set a precedent.... But if your gonna bench someone and replace them with someone else....I think the underlying thoughts should be... 1)Did the injured guy not play well?.....(cause Josh did) 2) Did the replacement guy play better?....(cause Johnny didnt) Yep. I agree with all that, just not with a blanket theory of "you shouldn't lose your job to injury." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 This is not a "bad call", "good call", or "Brave Call". This is CORRECT CALL. In 1999 the brand new Browns spent the whole off season before and during training camp preparing as if Ty Detmer was going to be the Starter all year long. They based their whole offense off of it months prior to the start of the season. First Game comes around they benched Ty Detmer and they haven't gotten it right since. The only good I seen last week from John was his ability to be a decent BACKUP. Not downgrading him but really that's what is seen was a guy that looked like a backup and did his job. But that is huge for him going forward. The Browns should be going forward with their plan and making plans to draft another qb. Its up too JF to make them change their minds and it doesn't take game time in winnable football games to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 The only good I seen last week from John... I admit it... For a second I paused at "John" with an audible "Who?" in my head before context kicked in as I read on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 lol he needs to do something different drop the money sign, cut it out with the johnny football shit and take a big boy name like John. I would try to do the same thing for Trent Richardson. Id sign him back for minimum and tell him "we gonna try something different Trent. Cut the fucking Dreads off!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 McCown deserves the start. The offense, in limited time, looked good with him behind the helm. Manziel can still benefit from sitting, it's not a zero sum game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 One... don't sleep on the Raiders... Two... you may well be right, Josh may revert to his career-long, established mean. But irrational as it may be, until he does, I'm still in the can-be-the-Chicago-Josh camp. Circumstances certainly lean that way to my eye... Yea sleeping on any NFL team is not a god idea, hopefully the staff/players aren't doing it Just pointing out their defense has been pretty terrible through the first 2 games. I hope Josh does really well, I'm just not very optimistic about it. Maybe after a full game he can raise my optimism level a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 His inability to move the chains was masked by the inability of the coaches to be less than superconservative (read that entirely predictable) in the 3rd and 4th quarters and set him up for 3rd and long which is a sackers wet dream. The second bomb was set up by moving the chains from the 20 to the 50. The second TD was set up by moving them deep into the red zone. The first bomb was a planned play off a correct reading of the D by both QB and receiver. None of it was luck. Get your facts straight. My fact ARE straight. Take off your Aggie-colored glasses and see the situation for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 McCown blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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