The "Modern Era" of football: 1978?

[The Gipper]

Following is an article by some ESPN writer...saying who the 10 best QBs of the "modern era" are. They define the "modern era" as beginning in 1978. Why 1978?

 

Two reasons per this writer:

 

A. It was in 1978 that the 16 game schedule began. (I personally do not think that alone is sufficient...but so be it)

B. It was also in 1978 that vast changes in the rules were passed to promote the passing game.

 

The 10 best QBs per this article:

 

1. Brady | 2. P. Manning | 3. Montana | 4. Elway | 5. Rodgers | T-6. Marino | T-6. Favre | 8. Young | 9. Brees | 10. Fouts

 

They did not include the likes of Namath, Bradshaw and Stabler, claiming that most of their careers were pre-1978. And naturally no Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas etc. So....do you agree with this assessment (on a couple of counts: 1. Should 1978 be some kind of cutoff date for the reasons stated...and 2..do you agree with their choices for the Top Ten?

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20096209/nfl-coaches-execs-rank-best-quarterbacks-modern-era-2017

[The Gipper]

Even since 1978 there are some QBs who did not make Top Ten list...that could be arguable:

Warren Moon

Eli Manning

Ben R.

Troy Aikman

Jim Kelly

Kurt Warner.

All in the HOF except the actives Eli and BR.

[Orion]

Hard to argue the list.

 

I'd put Marino ahead of Rogers.

...and not so sure about Brees...

[Tour2ma]

Personally I'd move Brees higher... Favre is still the one I don't "get".

 

Reasonable list... reasonable time frame...

[Bob806]

Don't shoot me, but Dan Marino was over rated.

 

The guy went 33-8 his first 3 years, fantastic. After that, he only had 3 or 4 more stellar seasons. His best work was with Duper and Clayton.

 

I'd take Warren Moon over Marino. Loved Marino's competitiveness, and quick release, but IMHO he's rated way too high.

[mjp28]

I guess all historical lists have to have cutoffs and limits somewhere.

 

Fair? Depends on your points of view.

[Tour2ma]

Was just thinking about other cutoff point nominees and came up with whatever year Bump&Run was limited to five yards...

 

Helluva lot more impactful than adding two more games to the season...

 

.. but...

 

... turns out that year was 1978.

[Ghoolie]

Don't shoot me, but Dan Marino was over rated.

 

The guy went 33-8 his first 3 years, fantastic. After that, he only had 3 or 4 more stellar seasons. His best work was with Duper and Clayton.

 

I'd take Warren Moon over Marino. Loved Marino's competitiveness, and quick release, but IMHO he's rated way too high.

Moon was by far better than Marino. Marino was a whining cunt. Before he found Jesus and got his linement isotoner gloves for Christmas, he would bitch at his own players when things didn't work out for him. I think the guy is a no good prick. Moon by far was a better QB. Joe Robbie, Shula and Bubba Big Hair Jimmy the Johnson gave this cocksucker everything a QB could want, and he still folded in every big game he was in. Fuck Marino.

[Ghoolie]

Following is an article by some ESPN writer...saying who the 10 best QBs of the "modern era" are. They define the "modern era" as beginning in 1978. Why 1978?

 

Two reasons per this writer:

 

A. It was in 1978 that the 16 game schedule began. (I personally do not think that alone is sufficient...but so be it)

B. It was also in 1978 that vast changes in the rules were passed to promote the passing game.

 

The 10 best QBs per this article:

 

1. Brady | 2. P. Manning | 3. Montana | 4. Elway | 5. Rodgers | T-6. Marino | T-6. Favre | 8. Young | 9. Brees | 10. Fouts

 

They did not include the likes of Namath, Bradshaw and Stabler, claiming that most of their careers were pre-1978. And naturally no Otto Graham, Johnny Unitas etc. So....do you agree with this assessment (on a couple of counts: 1. Should 1978 be some kind of cutoff date for the reasons stated...and 2..do you agree with their choices for the Top Ten?

 

http://w

ww.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20096209/nfl-coaches-execs-rank-best-quarterbacks-modern-era-2017

This is fodder for fools. Marino is in and Otto is out? WTF kind of list is this? A jackoff list? Steve Young? I met him once. A guy behind us dropped a quarter on the ground, Young started babbling and screaming.......HEY MA ANSWER THE DOOR". Seriously, he stepped in to a war machine. Dilfer could have won the SB with this team.

 

Also, the choosing of 1978 is as logical as making meatballs out of your own shit.

 

Fuck this list.

[Orion]

Fuck Marino.

 

Being a dick-head does not preclude the player from being on the list.

I was always rooting against him and Elway. They were two QB's I hated to face because they could just carve you up.

[mjp28]

Being a dick-head does not preclude the player from being on the list.

I was always rooting against him and Elway. They were two QB's I hated to face because they could just carve you up.

Marino was one of the best ever who would have believed with the Marks brothers that he wouldn't have won several SB trophies but it occasionally happens that way.

[StinkHole]

Rule changes to promote the passing game and a 16 game schedule? That's it?

 

Well duh...doesn't anyone see that perhaps rule changes in 1978 to promote the passing is why these supposedly greatest QB's played after, well...1978!

What if these changes were made when Otto played?

It only makes sense that the modern era would have started with the formation of the new league in 1970 and the emergence of the championship game that became known as the Super Bowl 3 years earlier.
Plus...
Gallup polling shows the NFL became America's #1 sport in 1972; it's been #1 ever since, and currently beats baseball about three to one when people are asked what their "favorite sport" is.

[TexasAg1969]

I would have thought the "modern" era should have started with Superbowl I or at least with the inclusion of the American Football League with the National Football League.

[nickers]

Moon was by far better than Marino. Marino was a whining cunt. Before he found Jesus and got his linement isotoner gloves for Christmas, he would bitch at his own players when things didn't work out for him. I think the guy is a no good prick. Moon by far was a better QB. Joe Robbie, Shula and Bubba Big Hair Jimmy the Johnson gave this cocksucker everything a QB could want, and he still folded in every big game he was in. Fuck Marino.

 

 

Yeah.. They gave him everything but a defense and a running game.. I mean wow Bernie Parmalee.. such a great running back... While I agree Marino was an ass.. He was still very good.. I'd take him over the garbage we have currently. on the team..

[The Gipper]

I guess all historical lists have to have cutoffs and limits somewhere.

 

Fair? Depends on your points of view.

Yea...well....what is YOUR point of view?

 

One thing I will say about it: after those rules changes QBs completion pcts. have gone way up, and their INT pct have gone way down. The likes of Bradshaw, Stabler, Namath...and others whose careers were mainly pre 1978 had almost 1:1 ratios on TDs to INTs. Today, that would be absolutely unacceptable....yet Hall of Famers of that era had that sort of ratio.....and completion pcts. barely above 50%.

[The Gipper]

Was just thinking about other cutoff point nominees and came up with whatever year Bump&Run was limited to five yards...

 

Helluva lot more impactful than adding two more games to the season...

 

.. but...

 

... turns out that year was 1978.

Yes, that was one of the major rule changes spoken of here. Perhaps THE major rule change.

[The Gipper]

This is fodder for fools. Marino is in and Otto is out? WTF kind of list is this? A jackoff list? Steve Young? I met him once. A guy behind us dropped a quarter on the ground, Young started babbling and screaming.......HEY MA ANSWER THE DOOR". Seriously, he stepped in to a war machine. Dilfer could have won the SB with this team.

 

Also, the choosing of 1978 is as logical as making meatballs out of your own shit.

 

Fuck this list.

Well, per the list only those whose careers were mainly after 1978 were listed. It does not pretend to be comprehensive.

Now, your opinion of the 1978 cutoff date may be valid. If you did an all time QB top 10 list since 1920....that would be fine.

But per the article it was the rule changes regarding passing that significantly changed the way the game is played that was important...and I believe it was very important.

I don't know that Joe Montana or Tom Brady would necessarily be in a position to be considered the GOATS under the old rules. Maybe...because they were great QBs. Though, I think the West Coast offense Montana ran could not exist or have thrived the way it did without those rule changes.

[The Gipper]

Rule changes to promote the passing game and a 16 game schedule? That's it?

 

Well duh...doesn't anyone see that perhaps rule changes in 1978 to promote the passing is why these supposedly greatest QB's played after, well...1978!

What if these changes were made when Otto played?

 

He would have won a dozen titles. Part of the 1978 rule changes included much greater QB protection...in addition to the elimination of the bump and run. Though note: OG did run what was the precursor of the West Coast Offense.

 

It only makes sense that the modern era would have started with the formation of the new league in 1970 and the emergence of the championship game that became known as the Super Bowl 3 years earlier.

Plus...

Gallup polling shows the NFL became America's #1 sport in 1972; it's been #1 ever since, and currently beats baseball about three to one when people are asked what their "favorite sport" is.

 

The merger and the creation of the Super Bowl, to me, had nothing to do with the way the game was played per se, on the field. All that did was add a level to the playoffs and change division structures. The game in the early 70s was really not much different that the way the game was played going back to WWII. Another level of playoffs was instituted later as well.

The 1978 rules changes DID far more to change the game itself...in how it was played...on the field. I think that is the point here of this article.

[The Gipper]

I would have though the "modern" era should have started with Superbowl I or at least with the inclusion of the American Football League with the National Football League.

I believe the modern era of football began with the creation of the NFL in 1920. Much like the creation of the American League in 1901 is considered the modern era of baseball. Just adding teams, adding playoffs levels per se do not change the game. Other teams and other playoff levels have been added since.

Example....sometime in the early 2000s the current 8 division league structure was instituted. That was a major change in the structure of the league.

 

But, I do think that 1978 was a definitive time that the league decided to change the nature of the game...as it was played on the field.

All that other stuff was really just about business and money....not about the game of football.

[Tour2ma]

Rule changes to promote the passing game and a 16 game schedule? That's it?

 

Well duh...doesn't anyone see that perhaps rule changes in 1978 to promote the passing is why these supposedly greatest QB's played after, well...1978!

What if these changes were made when Otto played?

 

It only makes sense that the modern era would have started with the formation of the new league in 1970 and the emergence of the championship game that became known as the Super Bowl 3 years earlier.

Plus...

Gallup polling shows the NFL became America's #1 sport in 1972; it's been #1 ever since, and currently beats baseball about three to one when people are asked what their "favorite sport" is.

 

Sure... if you conflate popularity of the game with impact upon the game.

[Buck The Frowns]

Something like this is one writer's opinion, in an era arbitrarily determined. I have always thought of the modern era as beginning with the AFL-NFL merger. You can't compare players across generations anyway. Otto Graham went to the championship game EVERY YEAR HE PLAYED, which is one record no one will ever touch, but how would he fare today? Who the hell knows. He was 6'1 and 195, so by today's standards he would have been smallish, though not Manzielian.

[Ghoolie]

 

 

Yeah.. They gave him everything but a defense and a running game.. I mean wow Bernie Parmalee.. such a great running back... While I agree Marino was an ass.. He was still very good.. I'd take him over the garbage we have currently. on the team..

I would take a one-eyed homoe with a club foot over the QBs we have now. Hell, I would even take Hoorta.

[Ghoolie]

Well, per the list only those whose careers were mainly after 1978 were listed. It does not pretend to be comprehensive.

Now, your opinion of the 1978 cutoff date may be valid. If you did an all time QB top 10 list since 1920....that would be fine.

But per the article it was the rule changes regarding passing that significantly changed the way the game is played that was important...and I believe it was very important.

I don't know that Joe Montana or Tom Brady would necessarily be in a position to be considered the GOATS under the old rules. Maybe...because they were great QBs. Though, I think the West Coast offense Montana ran could not exist or have thrived the way it did without those rule changes.

So we agree. then. Fuck Marino and his isotoners.

[The Gipper]

Something like this is one writer's opinion, in an era arbitrarily determined. I have always thought of the modern era as beginning with the AFL-NFL merger. You can't compare players across generations anyway. Otto Graham went to the championship game EVERY YEAR HE PLAYED, which is one record no one will ever touch, but how would he fare today? Who the hell knows. He was 6'1 and 195, so by today's standards he would have been smallish, though not Manzielian.

Well....again, nothing about the AFL-NFL merger changed how the game was played. Not at all. No more than the AAFC/NFL merger likely changed the game. Maybe that is the time that the "modern era" of football started. It was at that time that Paul Brown brought a lot of innovations in the way the game was run/managed/played.

Or, maybe it is not 1970....but 1960 when the modern era began....that is when the AFL was formed...and the bidding wars began.

Again, all that dealt with league structure and money.....and had nothing to do with how the game was played. 1978 brought the vast changes in how the game was played (officiated).

 

Here were those changes:

Major rule changes[edit]

The league passed major rule changes to encourage offensive scoring.^[2] In 1977 – the last year of the so-called "Dead Ball Era" – teams scored an average of 17.2 points per game, the lowest total since 1942.^[3]

• To open up the passing game, defenders are permitted to make contact with receivers only to a point of five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. This applies only to the time before the ball is thrown, at which point any contact is pass interference. Previously, contact was allowed anywhere on the field. This is usually referred to as the "Mel Blount Rule"
• The offensive team may only make one forward pass during a play from scrimmage, but only if the ball does not cross the line and return behind the line prior to the pass.
• Double touching of a forward pass is legal, but batting a pass towards the opponent's end zone is illegal. Previously, a second offensive player could not legally catch a deflected pass unless a defensive player had touched it. This is usually referred to as the "Mel Renfro Rule". During a play in Super Bowl V, Baltimore Colts receiver Eddie Hinton tipped a pass intended for him. Renfro, the Cowboys defensive back, made a stab at the ball and it was ruled that he tipped it ever so slightly (which he denied) into the arms of Colts tight end John Mackey, who ran for a touchdown. Later, this rule was also the one in question during the Immaculate Reception in 1972. But despite these two incidents, the rule change did not occur until this season.
• The pass blocking rules were extended to permit extended arms and open hands.
• The penalty for intentional grounding is reduced from a loss of down and 15 yards to a loss of down and 10 yards from the previous spot (or at the spot of the foul if the spot is 10 yards or more behind the line of scrimmage). If the passer commits the foul in his own end zone, the defense scores a safety.
• Hurdling is no longer a foul.
• A seventh official, the Side Judge, is added to the officiating crew to help rule on legalities downfield.^[2] The addition of 15 officials (one per crew) forced three-digit numbers to be used for the first time.

[hoorta]

I would take a one-eyed homoe with a club foot over the QBs we have now. Hell, I would even take Hoorta.

LOL, you've never seen me try to throw a football. I was never very good at it. I can still toss a 50 foot wounded duck. I was the designated punter in our sandlot games though.

[Buck The Frowns]

Well....again, nothing about the AFL-NFL merger changed how the game was played. Not at all. No more than the AAFC/NFL merger likely changed the game. Maybe that is the time that the "modern era" of football started. It was at that time that Paul Brown brought a lot of innovations in the way the game was run/managed/played.

Or, maybe it is not 1970....but 1960 when the modern era began....that is when the AFL was formed...and the bidding wars began.

And 1970 was when the bidding wars ended. True there were no major rules changes that year but that was the beginning of the unified TV deals and so forth, that led to the NFL being the billion dollar industry it is today. And that has changed the game as much as any rules change.

[StinkHole]

 

Rule changes to promote the passing game and a 16 game schedule? That's it?

 

Well duh...doesn't anyone see that perhaps rule changes in 1978 to promote the passing is why these supposedly greatest QB's played after, well...1978!

What if these changes were made when Otto played?

 

He would have won a dozen titles. Part of the 1978 rule changes included much greater QB protection...in addition to the elimination of the bump and run. Though note: OG did run what was the precursor of the West Coast Offense.

 

It only makes sense that the modern era would have started with the formation of the new league in 1970 and the emergence of the championship game that became known as the Super Bowl 3 years earlier.

Plus...

Gallup polling shows the NFL became America's #1 sport in 1972; it's been #1 ever since, and currently beats baseball about three to one when people are asked what their "favorite sport" is.

 

The merger and the creation of the Super Bowl, to me, had nothing to do with the way the game was played per se, on the field. All that did was add a level to the playoffs and change division structures. The game in the early 70s was really not much different that the way the game was played going back to WWII. Another level of playoffs was instituted later as well.

The 1978 rules changes DID far more to change the game itself...in how it was played...on the field. I think that is the point here of this article.

 

Ok, so this discussion is based on the premise that changes in the way the game is what defines "the modern era".

 

I was debating what the "modern era" actually means.

 

This writer is of the opinion that the modern era started in 1960 which of course would include the browns.

https://fansided.com/2015/02/21/nfl-top-30-teams-modern-era/

 

Wiki alludes to 1970, then talks about changes in the game later in the decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Football_League

[Tour2ma]

Also a matter of a generalized "Modern Era" vs. "QB Modern Era"...

 

 

And 1970 was when the bidding wars ended.

 

Actually that ended in '67. The leagues merged their drafts before they "merged".

[Buck The Frowns]

Also a matter of a generalized "Modern Era" vs. "QB Modern Era"...

 

 

 

 

Actually that ended in '67. The leagues merged their drafts before they "merged".

Forgot that, you are correct! The merger really took place over about five years or so, concluding in 1970.

 

Wonder what a red,white, and blue football is worth these days?

[TexasAg1969]

Forgot that, you are correct! The merger really took place over about five years or so, concluding in 1970.

 

Wonder what a red,white, and blue football is worth these days?

 

'bout the same as aba r, w & b basketball.