Buyer Beware: Browns Track Record at drafting QBs

[The Gipper]

OK, so...on and on and on and on we know that the Browns need a QB. But, perhaps you are not aware of the fact that in 64 (actually 61) years of participating in the NFL draft, their track record is pretty much a pile of stinking pig shit. Here are all the QBs ever drafted by the Browns since 1950, together with their career won-loss records overall as a starting QB in the NFL and their record as a starter for the Cleveland Browns. Note, these are not all the QBs ever drafted by the Browns, just those that were credited with a win/loss as a starter. Many other never saw action in the NFL.

 

Butch Songin 1950 8-11-1 overall 0-0 with Browns

 

Milt Plum 1957 56-40-6 overall 33-16-2 with Browns

 

Bob Brodhead 1958 1-0 overall 0-0 with Browns

 

Jim Ninowski 1958 15-15-1 overall 5-6 with Browns

 

Gary Lane 1965 0-1 "all" with Browns

 

Rick Norton 1966 1-10 overall 0-0 with Browns (thankfully)

 

Mike Phipps 1970 38-31-2 overall 24-25-2 with Browns

 

Brian Sipe 1972 57-55 all with Browns

 

Paul McDonald 1980 8-13 all with Browns

 

Bernie Kosar 1985 53-54-1 overall 53-51-1 with Browns

 

Eric Zeier 1995 4-8 overall 1-3 with Browns

 

Tim Couch 1999 22-37 all with Browns

 

Spergon Wynn 2000 0-3 all with Browns

 

Luke McCown 2-7 overall 1-3 with Browns

 

Charlie Frye 2005 7-16 overall 6-13 with Browns

 

Brady Quinn 2007 4-16 overall 3-9 with Browns

 

Colt McCoy 2010 6-15 all with Browns

 

Brandon Weeden 5-15 all with Browns.

 

ONLY Milt Plum ever had a record that was more than 2 games over .500. If we had him today we would think he was a God!

[The Gipper]

So, here is a proposition: Given this track record, don't bother drafting a QB. Get one some other way. Here are some other Browns QBs, and their record with the Browns:

 

Otto Graham...57-13-1 (NFL only?) drafted by Lions, acquired as FA

 

Frank Ryan...52-22-2 drafted originally by Rams, acquired in trade I believe

 

Bill Nelsen...34-16-1 ...acquired in trade with Steelers for Dick Shiner

 

Vinny Testaverde 16-15...veteran QB acquired as FA

 

Derek Anderson 16-18, drafted by Ravens, acquired off their practice squad

 

Brian Hoyer 3-0 so far. Undrafted FA (originally with Pats) Picked up as FA

 

Maybe we should just stick with Hoyer and not draft a QB?

[CLEinCHI]

To quote Coach Mike Pettine: "break off the rear view mirror"

[Flyin J]

How many free agent QBs have ever won a super bowl? 2 in the last 30 years or so?

[Canton Mike]

To quote Coach Mike Pettine: "break off the rear view mirror"

 

AMEN!!!!

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Meaningless stat.

[dab7291993]

We have a new owner and front office. Every single QB we've taken before now is completely irrelevant.

[cambridgeho]

Its the Browns fan motto, be pessimistic until we get results. LIke every year we have hope, like every year our qb throws a behind the back under hand with his eyes closed pass. We have had many many crappy QB's, hopefully this bunch can evaluate a guy and not rush him into it.

[The Gipper]

To quote Coach Mike Pettine: "break off the rear view mirror"

I understand...".the past is meaningless to the future"..."we have to get lucky sometime".

 

Its just that this track record is so bad....we revere 2 guys who were barely over .500. (each had big ups and big downs)

And...no one ever even talks about the one guy who actually had an outstanding record.....Plum.

But like I said in my trivia quiz: the Browns thought so highly of Milt Plum that they traded him after he made the Pro Bowl 2 years in a row. In retrospect the trade was good because Frank Ryan was brought in to replace him. Still, his winning pct. was about .666.

[CLEinCHI]

I understand...".the past is meaningless to the future"..."we have to get lucky sometime".

 

Its just that this track record is so bad....we revere 2 guys who were barely over .500. (each had big ups and big downs)

And...no one ever even talks about the one guy who actually had an outstanding record.....Plum.

But like I said in my trivia quiz: the Browns thought so highly of Milt Plum that they traded him after he made the Pro Bowl 2 years in a row. In retrospect the trade was good because Frank Ryan was brought in to replace him. Still, his winning pct. was about .666.

 

it is not meaningless in all situations, just this one when we essentially have a new organization drafting a QB .

 

The track record is horrible - no argument there - I wish I were alive to see Otto Graham play...really the last great QB we had.

[Canton Mike]

I understand...".the past is meaningless to the future"..."we have to get lucky sometime".

 

Its just that this track record is so bad....we revere 2 guys who were barely over .500. (each had big ups and big downs)

And...no one ever even talks about the one guy who actually had an outstanding record.....Plum.

But like I said in my trivia quiz: the Browns thought so highly of Milt Plum that they traded him after he made the Pro Bowl 2 years in a row. In retrospect the trade was good because Frank Ryan was brought in to replace him. Still, his winning pct. was about .666.

 

OMG, Milt Plum! I used to call him the King of the screen pass....to Jimmy Brown & Bobby Mitchell. THAT was fun to watch and, even though Mitchell was only in Cleveland a few years before the trade to the Redskins, as exciting a pair of backs as you would care to see in the same backfield. Plum was blessed to have a GREAT Team around him.

 

Mike

[calfoxwc]

Dang.

 

Canton Mike is an old fart.

[Canton Mike]

Dang.

 

Canton Mike is an old fart.

 

Yep, & proud of it!!

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Let's strive for mediocrity and stick with an FA QB.

 

 

Or let's have some balls and actually draft one of the top rated QB's for the first time in about 15 years.

 

None of this wait and see shit. That's what got us Weeden and Quinn.

[GuNNerGatSKi]

Yikes. That's a pretty piss poor record drafting QBs. I'm curious how we compare to other teams in that regard.

[calfoxwc]

Trouble is, there is no qb in this draft that is a "can't miss" guy like a

Luck.

 

What you could end up with, is a Ryan Leaf, or a Jamarcus Russell.

 

Seattle did pretty good with a 3rd rounder. The ratbirds nabbed Flacco in the first at 18, when some write ups had him

as a 2nd rounder. Andy Dalton has done pretty well with the Bengals, he

was a second round pick.

 

It isn't where you draft them so much as WHO you draft. If you know he's your guy, you

draft him before he falls to somebody else as best you can.

 

And, I'm soooooooo tired of rehashing the failures of the past. It's there, never gonna change -

it's always going to be that history.

 

But with Farmer as GM, once and for all, we havea FO and coaching staff that

sees character, work ethic, and love for the game as a primary criteria for

players that will be good on and off the field, making for a winning locker room.

 

It shows in the FA's they signed, and this draft will be a gigantic breath of fresh air -

and I plan on enjoying it without wailing about the stinkin air from the past.

 

Movin on, says I. If you have to take a big chance on a qb, you sure as hell don't do it

at 4. But, if Farmer and co draft a qb at 4, we'll all know they know he's their guy and they

figure they are not taking a huge chance on him.

 

I don't see it, but I don't know diddley.

[cvcanedy]

These aren't precedents. This is pointless statistics. I can't stand when people make "logical arguments" like this.

[calfoxwc]

No, you draft a guy that you figure is "your guy".

 

The Browns have taken chances on plenty of players, but their

criteria for drafting was screwed up.

 

Seattle didn't take a chance on a guy who was in the top ten.

They....drafted....a ...qb...in....the....third...round.

 

But they knew he was their guy to do what they wanted to do.

 

Nobody is saying bargain shop. Several of us are saying that to just draft a media

hyped qb really high, and hope maybe he can turn out to be your guy is really counter-productive

to building successful football team.

[The Gipper]

Let's strive for mediocrity and stick with an FA QB.

 

Otto Graham was a FA QB. So? You think 57-13 is mediocre? (actually I believe it is the very best win pct. of all time for a QB)

 

 

Or let's have some balls and actually draft one of the top rated QB's for the first time in about 15 years.

That would be great....if they could get it right. My point is they have never really gotten it right.

 

None of this wait and see shit. That's what got us Weeden and Quinn.

I guess we could have traded up for Jamarcus Russell....the only QB drafted ahead of Quinn. Or we could have taken Ryan Tannehill in lieu of TR...probably woulda been a good move...but I am not sure Tannehill is much better than Weeden.

[The Gipper]

These aren't precedents. This is pointless statistics. I can't stand when people make "logical arguments" like this.

Well, it is indeed "precedent", i.e. it is the the historical record that has preceded the current moment in time.

 

But, yes, I understand the illogic in saying that "since we have done so poorly in the past we will do poorly again".

I posted it more out of entertainment and information than out of argument.....but yes, I do carry out the narrative to make the arguement about the bad track record. Even if it is for devil's advocated sake.

[slowburn]

best of the worst

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

 

Let's strive for mediocrity and stick with an FA QB.

 

Otto Graham was a FA QB. So? You think 57-13 is mediocre? (actually I believe it is the very best win pct. of all time for a QB)

 

 

Or let's have some balls and actually draft one of the top rated QB's for the first time in about 15 years.

That would be great....if they could get it right. My point is they have never really gotten it right.

 

None of this wait and see shit. That's what got us Weeden and Quinn.

I guess we could have traded up for Jamarcus Russell....the only QB drafted ahead of Quinn. Or we could have taken Ryan Tannehill in lieu of TR...probably woulda been a good move...but I am not sure Tannehill is much better than Weeden.

The last time Otto Graham threw a pass, Eisenhower was in the White House and the average annual wage was $3,851.

 

Can we can it with the Otto Graham talk? Trying to compare his game to today's NFL is like trying to compare Pele's game to the NFL.

 

 

And check the 2007 Draft, no QB's drafted that year are currently starters now. Most aren't even on a roster.

 

Would you rather have Weeden over Tannehill?

[The Gipper]

The last time Otto Graham threw a pass, Eisenhower was in the White House and the average annual wage was $3,851.

 

Can we can it with the Otto Graham talk? Trying to compare his game to today's NFL is like trying to compare Pele's game to the NFL.

 

 

And check the 2007 Draft, no QB's drafted that year are currently starters now. Most aren't even on a roster.

 

Would you rather have Weeden over Tannehill?

The point about Otto Graham and others is the fact that he was not drafted by the Browns. Neither was Frank Ryan. No QB ever drafted by the Browns ever won a title. You can go back to Butch Songin in 1950 or Brandon Weeden.

And FYI, if OG played today, he would probably be a great QB....time would not have mattered.

As to 2007...you make my point. No QBs worth spit came out that year.

As for Weeden/Tannehill....honestly, Tannehill may only be marginally better than Weeden.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

The point about Otto Graham and others is the fact that he was not drafted by the Browns. Neither was Frank Ryan. No QB ever drafted by the Browns ever won a title. You can go back to Butch Songin in 1950 or Brandon Weeden.

And FYI, if OG played today, he would probably be a great QB....time would not have mattered.

As to 2007...you make my point. No QBs worth spit came out that year.

As for Weeden/Tannehill....honestly, Tannehill may only be marginally better than Weeden.

I doubt Graham would be a great QB today. I doubt any players from earlier eras would be able to keep up today. Benefits of performance enhancers.

 

 

I'd take Tannehill's QB rating of 80 over Weeden's 71. I'd also take Tannehill's 36 TD's and 30 INT's over Weeden's 23 TD's and 26 INT's. And his 60% completion over Weeden's 55%.

 

There's a reason one starts and the other doesn't.

[Flyin J]

I doubt Graham would be a great QB today. I doubt any players from earlier eras would be able to keep up today. Benefits of performance enhancers.

 

 

I'd take Tannehill's QB rating of 80 over Weeden's 71. I'd also take Tannehill's 36 TD's and 30 INT's over Weeden's 23 TD's and 26 INT's. And his 60% completion over Weeden's 55%.

 

There's a reason one starts and the other doesn't.

Well if Otto played today, he would be on the PEDs too lol

[The Gipper]

I doubt Graham would be a great QB today. I doubt any players from earlier eras would be able to keep up today. Benefits of performance enhancers.

I think you would be dead ass wrong about that. OG had physical qualities that compare with an number of successful current qBs. He was like 6'2" 210 or something like that.

It would have been his leadership and intellect that would have allowed him to excel.

By your statement, you would then have to also swallow the concept that Joe Montana would also not be able to keep up. Montana at 6'2 205? OG at 6'2 196?

Seeing Russell Wilson, seeing John Manziel...as a possible. Height may end up in the new age to be overrated, you never know.

 

I'd take Tannehill's QB rating of 80 over Weeden's 71. I'd also take Tannehill's 36 TD's and 30 INT's over Weeden's 23 TD's and 26 INT's. And his 60% completion over Weeden's 55%.

 

There's a reason one starts and the other doesn't.

Like I said, incrementally better. Tannehill hasn't proven to be the real deal yet either...and yea, he kept his job a little longer...so far.

[Buck The Frowns]

It is true that the Browns have an abysmal record of developing QBs and bad drafting in general. Wasting a first round choice on Weeden was a weird move, but hopefully whoever is in charge of drafting now will have more sense. No one was going to jump on him, the Browns could have waited or traded down. Now BOTH first rounders from two years ago are gone, although Richardson was a logical choice who did not pan out.

I don't think that any of the QBs this year have true first round talent. It is an odd draft, deep in many areas but lacking any QBs who have no weaknesses. If they are smart the Browns will go for those other positions and get their QB next year.

 

I don't see what this has to do with Otto Graham, etc. In general teams will have more misses than hits. Pittsburgh had twenty years between Bradshaw and BR. And who knows if one of the Browns QBs might have developed if a coach and system ever was allowed to be in place a few years.

[miktoxic]

most of the 'smart' fans were crying for decastro and you guys jumped on him like flies on shit.

 

felt bad the kid got injured but that comes with the game.

 

is the guy working out for you or what?

[The Gipper]

It is true that the Browns have an abysmal record of developing QBs and bad drafting in general. Wasting a first round choice on Weeden was a weird move, but hopefully whoever is in charge of drafting now will have more sense. No one was going to jump on him, the Browns could have waited or traded down. Now BOTH first rounders from two years ago are gone, although Richardson was a logical choice who did not pan out.

I don't think that any of the QBs this year have true first round talent. It is an odd draft, deep in many areas but lacking any QBs who have no weaknesses. If they are smart the Browns will go for those other positions and get their QB next year.

 

I don't see what this has to do with Otto Graham, etc. In general teams will have more misses than hits. Pittsburgh had twenty years between Bradshaw and BR. And who knows if one of the Browns QBs might have developed if a coach and system ever was allowed to be in place a few years.

The point about Otto Graham etc. was merely to show that the Browns have done better getting their QBs elsewhere besides the Draft.

Even the machinations involved in getting Bernie Kosar here in the supplemental draft was quite the unconventional method. Trading first round picks to Buffalo for the right to choose #1 in the Supp.

 

The best QB they may have ever taken in the regular draft may be a guy they picked up in the 13th round (Sipe) (that is if you discount the disparity in the record between what Sipe had and what Milt Plum had....the best record wise whom they traded...but did get in trade a guy that took them to a title).

The other point is to show how unlucky the Browns have been in making draft picks of QBs anywhere high: Couch 1st round, Frye 3rd round, McCoy 3rd round, Quinn 1st round, Weeden 1st round.

 

This is just an incredibly fucked up streak of bad luck. The Browns have not drafted a decent QB now in 30 years....since Kosar. Over 40 if you just count the regular draft.

 

I am certainly hoping this silly streak ends.....now.

 

(and, by the way...it was 34 years between Bradshaw and BR...in terms of years they were drafted)

[Buck The Frowns]

Hi Gipper, I meant that it was roughly 20 years between Bradshaw's retirement and the drafting of BR, during which the Steelers had immortals like Cliff Stoudt, Kordell Stewart, Mark Malone....any team is going to have more that don't make it than do. I think drafting any of the QBs as a high first rounder this year is going to be a mistake.