Division in the Browns over Kizer?

[CaineDeSoulis]

http://nflspinzone.com/2017/04/29/cleveland-browns-deshone-kizer-nfl-draft-2017/

 

The selection of DeShone Kizer by the Cleveland Browns was not made by a united front and could lead to a power struggle down the road.

The Cleveland Browns got a quarterback with the 52nd pick of the draft in Deshone Kizer from Notre Dame. While theres a lot of high-fiving and talks between fans and some members of the media thinking the Browns may have gotten a tremendous value in Kizer here, those in Berea likely dont see it the same way.

 

Not long after the selection was made, NFL Networks Mike Silver reported a curious quote:

This is incredibly revealing. First, it doesnt appear that this came from head coach Hue Jackson. But even if it did, the team is not united on the prospects of Kizers future. At the very least, the timing so closely after the selection is curious and certainly doesnt come off as an endorsement.

The analytics are not kind to DeShone Kizer. Hes an average athlete for his size and his production is equally average. Most of the positives from his profile are due to his size, both in terms of his overall build and the size of his hands.

 

 

Defenders of Kizer will point to the supporting cast and his head coach, suggesting that they prevented him from being successful enough to produce better numbers and more wins. Numbers dont care. Their unflattering and inflexible.

 

Kizers redshirt sophomore season was mediocre and his draft process didnt go much better. The Fighting Irish went 4-8 and his performance was wildly inconsistent from week to week and even within games. Kizers last year has a major disappointment, given his projected growth. Kizer should have stayed in college.

 

And on some level, people are overrating just how much damage a coach can do just as others are overrating just how much a coach can improve or fix a player. The truth is somewhere in the middle and the player is ultimately the player. Kizer wasnt good and getting away from Brian Kelly and Notre Dame, going to Hue Jackson in Cleveland isnt a panacea.

In terms of becoming a Pro Bowl or better quarterback, Kizer is working on the fringes in terms of the odds relative to the entire history of the NFL at the quarterback position. Even in terms of making it to becoming a starter, Kizers odds arent terribly promising.

Meanwhile, the other four prospects the Browns selected so far in this class are gems by the numbers. All four of them have the metrics to suggest they can be longterm starters and potentially become Pro Bowl players.

 

Kizer is the lone prospect that doesnt fit that trend, going completely in the other direction from a metric standpoint and sticks out like a sore thumb. It stands to reason that the front office was pushing for another player and it would be fascinating to know who that player is, especially if they ultimately become a great player elsewhere.

 

That quote to Silver likely indicates that the members of the front office that believe in the numbers arent on board with Kizer as anything other than a shot. They effectively let Hue make his pick, take the guy he wanted and are willing to let him see just how good he can become.

This potentially causes some problems both this coming season and may cause cracks in the organizational foundation of the franchise that lead to major problems down the road. Based on his college career, Kizer has no business seeing the field as a rookie. He should sit for the entirety of his rookie season and perhaps longer.

That becomes a problem if the Browns find themselves in position to take another a stud quarterback in the 2018 NFL Draft class. Currently, the Browns have a pair of first-round picks and three second-round picks for that group, so they are poised to be in great position to select a quarterback unless one of their current passers vastly exceeds expectations.

In the event the Browns are staring a good quarterback prospect in the face, are they going to pass on him for the sake of Kizer? If the front office sees a franchise caliber quarterback prospect by the numbers, theyre obviously going to want and push for that player. Jackson is then put in a position where he may have to defend Kizer and in effect, his role within the organization.

Both Jackson and defensive coordinator Gregg Williams have personnel input written into their contracts. Jackson got the guy he wanted in Kizer and effectively did it on his own, seemingly going on an island for Kizer.

 

This could lead to major problems after this coming season and potentially lead to a power struggle. On some level, the same argument people are having over analytics and the value of it outside the organization is now taking place within it. Unlike Robert Griffin III, who was also firmly Jacksons pick, this one cost a significant draft asset and presents the problems next year in the draft when they are still searching for a franchise quarterback.

 

For the time being, many fans and the media have hope in Kizer, but if its ultimately revealed theres a division within the ranks of the Cleveland Browns organization between the front office and coaches, Kizer is a significant symptom. The fact the Browns are not a united front behind the selection of Kizer, even just minutes after the selection, should be extremely concerning.

 

 

This is very supportive of this being purely Hue Jackson being Hue Jackson the QB Whisperer.

 

Fool us once with RG3, Fool us twice with Kizer...

 

PFF has him ranked as the 17th best passer in the class.

 

this is a link to some advanced stats aswell

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-inmAiXcAA9Hy2.jpg:large

 

All combined with the fact he actually scored WORSE the Cody Kessler as an athlete.

 

Thad Lewis 2.0 welcome to Cleveland

[hoorta]

"This is very supportive of this being purely Hue Jackson being Hue Jackson the QB Whisperer.
Fool us once with RG3, Fool us twice with Kizer...
PFF has him ranked as the 17th best passer in the class."

 

Exactly what I'm thinking. He won't get a third shot. There were CB prospects galore @ #52.

[MLD Woody]

Every pick has been at least good IMO, except Kizer

[DieHardBrownsFan]

So Ghoolie was right again, we took black Tarkenton.

[Zombo]

So Ghoolie was right again, we took black Tarkenton.

Let's hope so.

 

Hall of Famer Fran was a winner, and retired as the All-Time leading passer in NFL history.

 

But Kizer is much taller and has a much stronger arm.

 

Zombo

[TexasAg1969]

If he isn't decent, Kessler will beat him out for the job.

[Suomi]

This article is nothing but click bait. Author is an asshole.

[calfoxwc]

garbage article - referring to the op author of the nflspincrap.

[Mudfly]

Hey Cal....you revvin up the ole spin machine?......bet you've found a way to dilute your opinion on this one....hahahaha

[Tour2ma]

First, there is nothing Tarkenton-like about Kizer regardless of color...

Second, the article doesn't feel right to me. It's all spun off of this one "quote":

Not long after the selection was made, NFL Networks Mike Silver reported a curious quote:

This is incredibly revealing. First, it doesnt appear that this came from head coach Hue Jackson. But even if it did, the team is not united on the prospects of Kizers future. At the very least, the timing so closely after the selection is curious and certainly doesnt come off as an endorsement.

For starters... it's not a quote... not of a "Browns' source" anyway. It might be a Silver quote, but you don't "report" your own "quote".

Second, there's the use of "the team". What team? The players? The "FO team"? Use of very nebulous terms is rarely a sign of good reporting.

Third, even if it's true that there exists a lack of FO unanimity around the selection of a mid-second round QB, it is not newsworthy. I doubt there's a QB in this draft to date that inspired unanimity in every member of a FO's staff.

Fourth, there's the use of "not united on the prospects"... again, nebulous reporting. It can mean anything from "everyone except (Hue/Berry/??) thinks it's a bust pick" to "most feel he can be the franchise QB for a decade, but a few only see him as a average NFL-starter at best."

 

 

Even MKC has higher standards than this drivel...

[Mudfly]

 

...even if it's true that there exists a lack of unanimity around the selection of a mid-second round QB, it is not newsworthy. I doubt there's a QB in this draft to date that inspired unanimity in every member of a FO's staff.

 

Right....while I dont like the pick(at allllll).....the debate should be about wasting a 2nd round pick, when you need so much, instead of whether Kizer is a great prospect or not...

 

We already know he was the 4th QB taken....meaning he has lots of holes in his game and lots of questions.....so we can hash those to death.....OR focus on the real question....was this the right choice in rnd 2, or should we have picked a different holey guy later.....?

 

Last year, we did it in the 3rd(which pissed me off)......this year, we did it a round earlier........

 

And, in re to the article.....of course there's gonna be debate on a guy like this....no way there's a group of talent evaluators who will all agree that this is the guy......they just decided to another swing.....the ole wish and a prayer.....

[TexasAg1969]

Well I have been of the opinion all along to build this D and forget the QB in the weak class. And now all those CBs went off the board in a record run. Should have gotten one at 52 and DT or S @ 65. I guess I will settle for the DT. More guys to pressure the QBs and give who we already have a better chance to cover. So maybe both choices will help the team down the line. We shall see.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Well I don't want to bring up job security for Hue but this is just another check AGAINST Jackson. Not that I feel like its even a big deal if we let Hue go at this point most of his Hand Picked staff has been replaced already. Combine that with the fact we have Williams on staff who is a more than adequate replacement.

 

But hey maybe Kiser does what no other QB has done before and gets more accurate in the nfl and plays great and the whole world says "wow that was statistically unlikely as hell! Glad he worked out."

 

Of all the players we drafted in these past 2 drafts he is the only one that really stands out against the rest.

 

Hue Banged on the table for Rg3 and then he banged on the table for this kid outta ND well hopefully it won't cost him hia job. I still think Hue is a pretty good O Coordinator. His Talent evaluation is pretty questionable though.

[jcam222]

 

He always is on the money.

uh well no considering that reference was to Watson

[jcam222]

All this stuff about division gets blown out of proportion. I've chaired a lot of meetings to develop processes, structure proposal etc. Very rarely are you going to have concencus on every decision. Sure you do sometimes but it's the exception not the rule. At the end of the day being a professional is about moving past it and getting on board.

[wargograw]

Well I don't want to bring up job security for Hue but this is just another check AGAINST Jackson. Not that I feel like its even a big deal if we let Hue go at this point most of his Hand Picked staff has been replaced already. Combine that with the fact we have Williams on staff who is a more than adequate replacement.

 

But hey maybe Kiser does what no other QB has done before and gets more accurate in the nfl and plays great and the whole world says "wow that was statistically unlikely as hell! Glad he worked out."

 

Of all the players we drafted in these past 2 drafts he is the only one that really stands out against the rest.

 

Hue Banged on the table for Rg3 and then he banged on the table for this kid outta ND well hopefully it won't cost him hia job. I still think Hue is a pretty good O Coordinator. His Talent evaluation is pretty questionable though.

But if we had taken Davis loser Webb Hue's job would be secure. Makes sense.

[Mudfly]

Hue Banged on the table for Rg3 and then he banged on the table for this kid outta ND well hopefully it won't cost him hia job. I still think Hue is a pretty good O Coordinator. His Talent evaluation is pretty questionable though.

Cmon man....Hue doesnt pound tables and the FO wouldnt defer to his choices(if he did).....completely ridiculous....this is on Shashi and Depo...

 

And yes...I agree 100% that Hue is no talent evaluator....which is why Im certain he's not the influence that pushed this pick thru.....

[CaineDeSoulis]

Cmon man....Hue doesnt pound tables and the FO wouldnt defer to his choices(if he did).....completely ridiculous....this is on Shashi and Depo...

 

And yes...I agree 100% that Hue is no talent evaluator....which is why Im certain he's not the influence that pushed this pick thru.....

Any explanation on why this pick does not Follow any of the patterns that the browns have drafted in the previous drafts then?

 

Kizer is an anomaly when the data is compared side by side.

[Mudfly]

Any explanation on why this pick does not Follow any of the patterns that the browns have drafted in the previous drafts then?

 

Kizer is an anomaly when the data is compared side by side.

Um....what patterns....this FO has one previous draft under its belt and they have repeated that...almost exactly....

 

Trade back in the first....use that to pick a questionable player at a position we dont desperately need.....then burn a top round pick on a less than good QB prospect....whats different?

[cambridgeho]

Is noone ever happy? We dont draft a qb, people bitch. We draft the 4th best rated in the 2nd round people complain.

[Mudfly]

Is noone ever happy? We dont draft a qb, people bitch. We draft the 4th best rated in the 2nd round people complain.

Different strokes for different folks.....that will never change.....

[The Gipper]

So Ghoolie was right again, we took black Tarkenton.

Again, I hope so.....Tarkenton only took his team to 3 Super Bowls, and at one time he was the most prolific passer in NFL history until he got surpassed by guys that came after the rules to aid the passing game and making it harder on defenses came along.

[Tour2ma]

But hey maybe Kiser does what no other QB has done before and gets more accurate in the nfl and plays great and the whole world says "wow that was statistically unlikely as hell! Glad he worked out."

 

I keep reading that Kizer is "inaccurate", but... he's a career 60.7% passer with a 148 rating and a 2.5:1 TD to INT ratio... and that's after a "bad" 2016 season on a bad team.

 

Well I have been of the opinion all along to build this D and forget the QB in the weak class.

 

And you've had plenty of company in that opinion, Ag...

[Tour2ma]

Kizer is known for his feet.

 

1000-yds in two seasons gets you "known" today?

[hoorta]

Is noone ever happy? We dont draft a qb, people bitch. We draft the 4th best rated in the 2nd round people complain.

I'll take 1st best in 2018, over 4th best (some had 17th best) in 2017 any time. Thank you very much.

[TopDawg31]

I'll take 1st best in 2018, over 4th best (some had 17th best) in 2017 any time. Thank you very much.

we're going to need a decent back up for next year's QB

[Tour2ma]

I'll take 1st best in 2018, over 4th best (some had 17th best) in 2017 any time. Thank you very much.

 

The latter does not preclude the former...

[TheOllieC]

Pretty bad article. Clearly agenda driven. Not worth putting much stock into.

[Westside Steve]

So Ghoolie was right again, we took black Tarkenton.

Without the accuracy and with the bad attitude.

 

Shit.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

So Ghoolie was right again, we took black Tarkenton.

Without the accuracy and with the bad attitude.

 

Shit.

WSS