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THE BROWNS BOARD

On To Las Vegas?


The Gipper

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This is Bill Belichick's line whenever his team has gotten beaten (and even sometime when his team has won). He just want to go on to talk about the next team he has on the schedule. (though usually he doesn't do that either). And as we know, Las Vegas is courting the Raiders to move there, and vice versa. So maybe someday soon we will here this out of BB and others.

 

But my point in this is to do a bit of a breakdown of cities in the US that have 4 or more teams, 3 teams, 2 teams, 1 team, and no teams by size of Metropolitan area/Market that have teams in the 4 major sports, NBA/NHL/MLB/NFL. The number to the left will be that Metro regions market size:

 

Cities/regions with at least 1 team in all 4 major sports:

 

#1. New York

2. Los Angeles

3. Chicago

4. Washington/Baltimore

5. Bay Area. (Oak/SF/SJ)

6. Boston

7. Dallas

8. Philadelphia

10. Miami

12. Detroit

14. Minneapolis/St. Paul

16. Denver

 

Cities/regions with teams in only 3 of the 4 major sports:

 

#9. Houston

11. Atlanta

 

15. Cleveland

18. Tampa Bay

22. Pittsburgh

 

Cities/regions with teams in only 2 of the 4 major sports:

 

13. Seattle.

#17. San Diego

21. St. Louis

23. Charlotte

26. Kansas City

28. Indianapolis

30. Cincinnati

32. Milwaukee

33. Nashville

38. New Orleans

46. Buffalo

 

Cities/regions with teams in only 1 of the 4 major sports:

 

#19. Orlando

20. Portland

24. Sacramento

25. Salt Lake City

t25. San Antonio

27. Columbus

31. Raleigh

36. Jacksonville

41. Oklahoma City

43. Memphis

#103. Green Bay

 

Cities/regions with -0- teams in the major sports. Note for this, I am only including metro areas that are larger than Buffalo, which is the 46th largest market in America (but which has 2 teams):

 

#29. Las Vegas

34. Virginia Beach/Norfolk

35. Greensboro NC

37. Louisville

39. Hartford

40. Grand Rapids

42. Greeneville/Spartanburg SC

44. Birmingham Ala.

45. Harrisburg Pa.

 

So, note this: there are 18 markets in the US that actually have more people than the Buffalo market, but which have only 1 or no teams.

If the NFL moved to Vegas, there would actually be 5 smaller markets that have teams than Vegas: Buffalo/Jacksonville/New Orleans/Nashville/Cincinnati.

And Vegas right now is the biggest market in America without a major league franchise.

Now that the Rams have moved back to LA, it is St. Louis which they left that is now the largest market without an NFL team.

(however, not above San Antonio is #25.....if San Antonio and Austin were combined, they would be the largest non NFL market.

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Sports

 

Main article: Sports in the Las Vegas metropolitan area.

 

Las Vegas does not have major league sports, although the metropolitan population is as large or larger than many cities that have them. The only minor league sports team that plays in the city of Las Vegas are the Las Vegas 51s of the Pacific Coast League, the AAA farm club of the New York Mets.

 

In response to continuing rumors of a potential National Hockey League expansion team in Las Vegas, ESPN writer Scott Burnside noted several obstacles that would be faced by the city if it were to become a professional sports market, including the presence of legal sports betting, scheduling conflicts with the large amount of residents who work nighttime and overnight shifts, and that the casinos would be unlikely to give away tickets to such events as a promotion, as they run contrary to a goal of encouraging patrons to remain in their facilities.

 

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My issue with a team in Vegas is who is going to go to these games? I see that Vegas has a population of nearly 700,000, while the entire state of Nevada only has a population of 2.8 million. Let's say that Vegas gets a stadium, I would say that being the big show Vegas is that they would try to 1up Dallas' stadium. Dallas stadium holds 111,000 people... that would be like 1 out of every 7 people living in Vegas would have to attend the games to fill it up. Now you may get some tourists to go to the games but usually only the people who's team back home is playing would attend. I don't see that much of a market. People go to win money and gamble in Vegas. I don't know if they would be willing to shell out 10 bucks or more for a beer.

 

I think the idea is awesome.. showgirl cheerleaders and the setting would be epic. Maybe giant jackpot machines that rain down golden coin confetti whenever the home team scores... I don't know but I think that gambling and football are a bad combination... we already have paid off officials to mess with the outcome of the games from Pit and Cincy, imagine the headache of refs throwing penalties to cover the spreads and.... eh, there are more DESERVING cities that should get a team before Vegas.

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Cleveland gets a lot of credit but MANY of the fans come from far and wide to support Cleveland. Cleveland Browns are repped all over the state. I drive and hour and a half to the games and other than a couple Steelers fans that need attention, I pretty much live in Brownstown.

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Vegas is pretty transient, but I bet the NFL would be supported there by the residents.

 

I don't want the Raiders to leave Oakland, but they might be the once franchise that could match up well if they went there.

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My issue with a team in Vegas is who is going to go to these games? I see that Vegas has a population of nearly 700,000, while the entire state of Nevada only has a population of 2.8 million. Let's say that Vegas gets a stadium, I would say that being the big show Vegas is that they would try to 1up Dallas' stadium. Dallas stadium holds 111,000 people... that would be like 1 out of every 7 people living in Vegas would have to attend the games to fill it up. Now you may get some tourists to go to the games but usually only the people who's team back home is playing would attend. I don't see that much of a market. People go to win money and gamble in Vegas. I don't know if they would be willing to shell out 10 bucks or more for a beer.

 

I think the idea is awesome.. showgirl cheerleaders and the setting would be epic. Maybe giant jackpot machines that rain down golden coin confetti whenever the home team scores... I don't know but I think that gambling and football are a bad combination... we already have paid off officials to mess with the outcome of the games from Pit and Cincy, imagine the headache of refs throwing penalties to cover the spreads and.... eh, there are more DESERVING cities that should get a team before Vegas.

 

Right- to fill a 70,000 seat stadium- you'd need 1\10th of the population of Vegas to show up. If you've ever been, once you get outside the Vegas city limits- there's a whole lot of nothing. The two nearest major metropolis- Los Angeles and Phoenix are a at least a 3 hour drive away- doing around 90.

 

MHO is Oakland needs to pony up for a new stadium- the locals should know the drill by now.

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Vegas is my favorite place on earth. I hope to be permanently resided there in the coming 2 years. If the Raiders move there? I am all in a Raiders fan.

 

'The Black Hoe" will never be the same :o:lol::P

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Vegas is my favorite place on earth. I hope to be permanently resided there in the coming 2 years. If the Raiders move there? I am all in a Raiders fan.

 

If you move to Vegas and the Raiders don't you can be a Cards fan.
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Vegas is my favorite place on earth. I hope to be permanently resided there in the coming 2 years. If the Raiders move there? I am all in a Raiders fan.

 

 

Too bad I don't care to gamble much Tom. On my one trip there, I bought all the co-workers $5 tickets at Harrah's on their favorite teams to win the Super Bowl. My neighbor lived there for years as a session musician, and moved back to Ohio. Says it got pretty boring. The good things about Vegas? No discernible bug population, and it's a nice jumping off point to Zion (2-1\2 hour drive) and the Grand Canyon (4 hours). I'll paraphrase what I once heard about Wyoming.

 

The two prettiest sights in Nevada are Wheeler Peak, and seeing Las Vegas in your rear-view mirror. :)

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There needs to be a law that prohibits companies from holding cities hostage "give us something free or we will leave to greener pastures"... happens all the time and its bullshit unethical tactics

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How'd you come up with the population rankings? Dallas should be 4th. Cleveland seems high. Houston is too low.

These are metropolitan area rankings, not city proper population rankings. US Census Bureau 2014 estimates.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area#List_of_combined_statistical_areas

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Transient? 1.8 million residents? Transient?

Las Vegas-Henderson, NV-AZ Combined Statistical Area

2,362,015 2,195,401 +7.59%

Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV Metropolitan Statistical Area

Lake Havasu City-Kingman, AZ Metropolitan Statistical Area

Pahrump, NV Micropolitan Statistical Area

 

Over 2.3 million actually. They have more than Cincy, and Nashville and 3 other NFL markets.

So, I think they would hold their own.

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Transient? 1.8 million residents? Transient?

What I meant was most of the population has moved there from elsewhere, like Atlanta in the 80s.

 

The Arizona Cardinals still don't have a clear "home field advantage" when they play teams like Dallas & Green Bay, after moving there nearly 30 years ago. It will be the same situation in Vegas.

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Las Vegas-Henderson, NV-AZ Combined Statistical Area

2,362,015 2,195,401 +7.59%

Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV Metropolitan Statistical Area

Lake Havasu City-Kingman, AZ Metropolitan Statistical Area

Pahrump, NV Micropolitan Statistical Area

 

Over 2.3 million actually. They have more than Cincy, and Nashville and 3 other NFL markets.

So, I think they would hold their own.

 

Us environmentalists are concerned. Once Vegas and Phoenix drain Lake Mead, too bad, so sad. They're already bitching in California over water rights. Kingman is 100 miles away- almost the same distance between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I suppose you could make the trip in an hour and change driving 90 mph through the Mojave desert.

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Vegas is my favorite place on earth. I hope to be permanently resided there in the coming 2 years. If the Raiders move there? I am all in a Raiders fan.

 

How could anyone on this board not be hoping for Vegas to get the Raiders now?!?!? j/k ;)
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Davis seems like he genuinely wants to move here. Supposedly remaining in Oakland is off the board and it's either going to be Vegas or Los Angeles. Davis has pledged 500 million(counting on a $200mil loan from the NFL) toward a $1.4B stadium. The LVCVA(Convention Authority) is planning a huge project($2B+) funded by $ from increased hotel room taxes. From what I understand, some of that money will be diverted to funding the stadium. We don't have state taxes here and I think all of the public $ will come from hotel taxes.

The Raiders wouldn't start playing here for another 3 or so years because UNLV's stadium sucks and is barely suited for cfb,let alone the NFL. UNLV also owns the land on which the stadium would be built.

Some of the "in the know" sports figures here have said that the owners would never approve the move due to the stigma of gambling,but others say approval won't be a problem.

The expectation is that Vegas would be a draw for fans of opposing teams. I am curious to see how the locals would support a team. There seems to be a decent base of Raider fans here. I hope it happens. I don't care if we land an NHL team or not.

I thought this had a about a 1% chance of happening when I first heard about it, but now I would say maybe there is a 30% chance.

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Us environmentalists are concerned. Once Vegas and Phoenix drain Lake Mead, too bad, so sad. They're already bitching in California over water rights. Kingman is 100 miles away- almost the same distance between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I suppose you could make the trip in an hour and change driving 90 mph through the Mojave desert.

The times I have traveled through the Mojave, I have done 90.

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The times I have traveled through the Mojave, I have done 90.

 

LOL Gipper, I was driving 90 and getting passed like I was standing still. :)

 

Just one thought Gip- if you want to count Kingman in Las Vegas area, by that standard, Youngstown, Mansfield, and Sandusky count for Cleveland.

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To an uniformed man like myself the first thing that came to mind is suely the ground will be full of away fans on trips every time?

 

Home fans won't even be half the stadium.

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Davis seems like he genuinely wants to move here. Supposedly remaining in Oakland is off the board and it's either going to be Vegas or Los Angeles. Davis has pledged 500 million(counting on a $200mil loan from the NFL) toward a $1.4B stadium. The LVCVA(Convention Authority) is planning a huge project($2B+) funded by $ from increased hotel room taxes. From what I understand, some of that money will be diverted to funding the stadium. We don't have state taxes here and I think all of the public $ will come from hotel taxes.

The Raiders wouldn't start playing here for another 3 or so years because UNLV's stadium sucks and is barely suited for cfb,let alone the NFL. UNLV also owns the land on which the stadium would be built.

Some of the "in the know" sports figures here have said that the owners would never approve the move due to the stigma of gambling,but others say approval won't be a problem.

The expectation is that Vegas would be a draw for fans of opposing teams. I am curious to see how the locals would support a team. There seems to be a decent base of Raider fans here. I hope it happens. I don't care if we land an NHL team or not.

I thought this had a about a 1% chance of happening when I first heard about it, but now I would say maybe there is a 30% chance.

I don't think the team would have trouble selling tickets. I think a lot of fans of opposing teams would make a trip out there for a road trip to see their team play the Raiders. I would consider it. I would also not be surprised if a lot of East Bay Raider fans would maintain their loyalty to the team.

The question is: If they announce that they are going to move, and get approval to do so, where would they play for the next 3 years while a stadium is being built? You say no stadium in Vegas now is worthy. Would they stay in Oakland? Would they be welcome to stay in Oakland? Would they go elsewhere temporarily. LA? Where would they play? In the Coliseum like the Rams are? The Rose Bowl? Or would they do a temporary stint in San Antonio in the Alamodome? How about Salt Lake? Is there a college stadium there they could use temporarily while they cultivate that market for fans? (That is Bronco territory basically right now). How about London? How about the new Tom Benson Stadium in Canton Ohio next to the PFHOF? (too small....only a bit over 22K capacity)

Where?

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LOL Gipper, I was driving 90 and getting passed like I was standing still. :)

 

Just one thought Gip- if you want to count Kingman in Las Vegas area, by that standard, Youngstown, Mansfield, and Sandusky count for Cleveland.

Actually, they may.....see the link in post #18. At least Sandusky is in there.

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To an uniformed man like myself the first thing that came to mind is suely the ground will be full of away fans on trips every time?

 

Home fans won't even be half the stadium.

Perhaps initially until they really build up their home season ticket base.

But I see nothing wrong with that.

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