The Gipper Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Top QBs in 2017Trubisky 6.7Watson 6.3Mahomes 5.9Kizer 5.9Peterman 5.8Kaaya 5.6Davis 5.3 If I recall from reading this before, the grade on Trubisky is actually higher than not only that of Wentz/Goff....but may have also been higher than Winston/Mariota. (or at least Mariota). In fact, you may have to go back to Luck to find one with a higher grade. (then again, RG may have had a higher grade as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Who is responsible for the grades? If it's Ray Farmer I'm out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Who is responsible for the grades? If it's Ray Farmer I'm out... They said it was from NFL.com.....not sure if it is a single writer or a committee. or a computer or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 ...but what are their values to an NFL football team of today? You would have to factor in the position that the player plays and/or is projected to play. You'd have to have a position value chart. This chart would rate positions assuming that each position is a position of need (kinda' like OUR team). The QB position would be heavily weighted since it's head and shoulders more vital to winning games than any other position. Certainly...the long snapper position would not have that same type of value....we're all set there anyway, we've got the highest paid long snapper in the league. So, is it at all possible that the #6 rated player in the draft actually has more overall team value than the #1 rated player in the draft? One would hope. Which makes me curious about what the various metrics are that go into the Analytics machine before it spits out who to draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 So, is it at all possible that the #6 rated player in the draft actually has more overall team value than the #1 rated player in the draft? No... and here is why without debating the individual grades. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-grade In assembling a board the first thing you do is group players into BPA clusters by how you graded them. There's no way that the difference between a 6.0 and a 5.9 is significant, but the 12% difference between a 7.6 and 6.7 sure as hell should be. Taking the NFL grades as they are says the top group in the 2017 draft includes at most two players: Garrett and Fournette. Now you apply your need, position weight factors to that grouping... and you take Garrett. Next you move to the second grouping which I'd argue runs from Solomon/Allen at 6.8 down to Njoku at 6.4. In this group, Trubs zooms to the top based upon position value/need. What you do not do... what you cannot do... what we have done in the past and have regretted doing time after time... ... is allow Need/Value to leapfrog a player from one BPA grouping to the next. Ask this... Who is arguing that a QB is the best player in this draft? Who is arguing that there is a QB in this draft as dominant at his position as Garrett is at his? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ask this... Who is arguing that a QB is the best player in this draft? Who is arguing that there is a QB in this draft as dominant at his position as Garrett is at his? And who says that just because a player gets the top grade pre draft they it will mean diddly squat when it comes to actually playing the pro game? Levi Brown, Aaron Curry, Gaines Adams, Dion Jordan, Jamarcus Russell< Jason Smith, Trent Richardson....etc. etc etc may have any one of them had the highest pre draft grade....and became the biggest post draft busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 NFL.com player ratings from the 2014 draft: J. Clowney 7.5 G. Robinson 7.5 S. Watkins 7.3 J. Mathews 7.3 K. Mack 7.2 2015 L. Williams 7.5 A. Cooper 7.1 K. White 6.9 D. Fowler 6.9 Apparently more top-end talent in 2014 than in the 2017 draft. However, Garrett's 7.6 is looking very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaineDeSoulis Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Trubisky is picking up a lot of steam in the draft and is interviewing extremely well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 BTW, he wants to be called "Mitchell" not Mitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted March 3, 2017 Report Share Posted March 3, 2017 Ask this... Who is arguing that a QB is the best player in this draft? Who is arguing that there is a QB in this draft as dominant at his position as Garrett is at his? ...dunno, not me. But who's going to throw more TD passes? There's ten other guys to help tackle people. He won't make it past the #3 overall pick. And that's because the position is so very important to a team's success. (heavily weighted) ...just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 He won't make it past the #3 overall pick. I think Watson & Trubisky both will be gone in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Oh wow, 6'2"? Still don't want him in the 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 I'm crossing my fingers that if we do end up going Garrett #1... that SF sees Watson or that ND QB as a better fit and then the other QB needy teams so Trubisky as a project QB, one they are not willing to give the time to develop like we may and he slips to us at 12... I mean it's not that likely but with him only having 1 year starting college exp... there's at least a slim shot at it happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 BTW, he wants to be called "Mitchell" not Mitch. That's gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 If I recall from reading this before, the grade on Trubisky is actually higher than not only that of Wentz/Goff....but may have also been higher than Winston/Mariota. (or at least Mariota). In fact, you may have to go back to Luck to find one with a higher grade. (then again, RG may have had a higher grade as well) Correct that Mitch rates higher than all, except Winston who got an identical grade. If Garrett wasn't in this draft- it would be a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Correct that Mitch rates higher than all, except Winston who got an identical grade. If Garrett wasn't in this draft- it would be a no brainer. But he is and if the Browns take a QB instead, we can definitely label them "no brainers". All the QB's are projects that will not produce wins their first year. Jimmy's got no patience so they may as well turn in their coaches badges along with the QB selection card on April 27. Besides they lost credibility with taking RG III and then Kessler too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 That's gay. It's extremely gay. I'm out on this guy. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Trubisky essentially played 1 year of college football that can be evaluated and in that year 5 games vs top 25 opponents: 9/3 Georgia #18 24/40 156 0/0 Loss 10/1 Florida State #12 31/38 405 3/0 Win 10/8 Virginia Tech #25 13/33 58 0/2 Loss 10/15 Miami #16 33/46 299 2/0 Win 12/30 Stanford #16 23/38 280 2/2 Loss So a great game FSU, good game Miami, average game Stanford and 2 fucking clunkers Georgia & Virginia Tech. He was 2-3 vs Top 25 teams during the year. ACC conference play isn't the SEC or the Big 10 in terms of defense and these are the stats of the guy people want at #12. I know we are desperate for a QB but desperation shouldn't dictate the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 ACC conference play isn't the SEC or the Big 10 in terms of defense and these are the stats of the guy people want at #12. The level of competition was one of the things I didn't like about Carson Wentz, but he went #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaconHound Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 The level of competition was one of the things I didn't like about Carson Wentz, but he went #2. And not sure if that was a great move by the Eagles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 But he is and if the Browns take a QB instead, we can definitely label them "no brainers". Speaking of no brains.....has anyone watched Trubiskys pressy? Doesnt seem too sharp to me.....and the great ones usually do..... wunderlik how quick he processes things??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Speaking of no brains.....has anyone watched Trubiskys pressy? Doesnt seem too sharp to me.....and the great ones usually do..... wunderlik how quick he processes things??? Mud, did you know he is from Ohio and said he wants to be a Brown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Yep....I live just down the road from Mentor high.....watched him play and have followed his career.....my daughter cheered for Riverside, so Im all about Lake county HS ball ..... Him taking the Browns to the promised land would be a great story....but I just dont think he's the guy to do it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyceRolls Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Speaking of no brains.....has anyone watched Trubiskys pressy? Doesnt seem too sharp to me.....and the great ones usually do..... wunderlik how quick he processes things??? That's exactly what I was thinking, kid sounds pretty dense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicIsForSquares Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Yep....I live just down the road from Mentor high.....watched him play and have followed his career.....my daughter cheered for Riverside, so Im all about Lake county HS ball ..... Him taking the Browns to the promised land would be a great story....but I just dont think he's the guy to do it.... Oh I know. I was poking fun at the people who decided he was Joe Montana after finding out he said he wanted to be a Brown. If he was from Louisiana and said he wanted to be a Saint, no one around here would give a squirt of piss about Trubisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 ... kid sounds pretty dense. yep... Oh I know. I was poking fun at the people who decided he was Joe Montana after finding out he said he wanted to be a Brown. If he was from Louisiana and said he wanted to be a Saint, no one around here would give a squirt of piss about Trubisky. Ahhh....gotcha.... Yeah...I wish he was the guy....like Bernie II......(but he's not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 So now he wants to be called Mitchell? Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 4, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Faster than Kizer, same speed as Watson. 4.67 speed. Same as Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 BTW, he wants to be called "Mitchell" not Mitch. How does he feel about "Trubs"? Wherever he plays that'll be the call from the stands should he ever make a play... "Trooooooooooobs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Dawg Posted March 4, 2017 Report Share Posted March 4, 2017 Speaking of no brains.....has anyone watched Trubiskys pressy? Doesnt seem too sharp to me.....and the great ones usually do..... wunderlik how quick he processes things??? If I recall, Manziel was very articulate...but we know how that turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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