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Article on the drafted players

LondonBrown

By LondonBrown
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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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Unreadable

 

I didn't like the math- but I did notice Kessler's velocity was 55 mph, correlates with the lame arm comments I've been seeing. Goff\Wentz 58, Lynch 59.

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PoeticG Explorer

PoeticG

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I don't know about the arm strength thing... Does it really matter if you can throw it 100 miles per hour if you throw erratically, or if it's too hard it's uncatchable. Giving a WR a catchable ball, a safe ball, where they can comfortably catch it and have time to make a move before being cremated would be nice. I hate having to hold my breath when a QB throws a bullet. Yes, you need to be able to squeeze it in to the small windows... but it doesn't need to be traveling like a jet liner to get it in there.

 

Read the Defense. Find the open receiver. Throw a catchable ball. Get as much YAC as possible. Move on to the next one.

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Mike H Newbie

Mike H

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I don't know about the arm strength thing... Does it really matter if you can throw it 100 miles per hour if you throw erratically, or if it's too hard it's uncatchable. Giving a WR a catchable ball, a safe ball, where they can comfortably catch it and have time to make a move before being cremated would be nice. I hate having to hold my breath when a QB throws a bullet. Yes, you need to be able to squeeze it in to the small windows... but it doesn't need to be traveling like a jet liner to get it in there.

 

Read the Defense. Find the open receiver. Throw a catchable ball. Get as much YAC as possible. Move on to the next one.

 

Only it does matter because it limits areas of the field defenses have to account for and allows them to focus on the intermediate-short range. We'll see if Kessler can make those throws that force safety or CB to respect over the top, or not, but it didn't look like it in college.

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D Bone Experienced

D Bone

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Only it does matter because it limits areas of the field defenses have to account for and allows them to focus on the intermediate-short range. We'll see if Kessler can make those throws that force safety or CB to respect over the top, or not, but it didn't look like it in college.

 

Joe Montana and his weak arm sure suffered when defenses focused on the intermediate-short range, while Derek Anderson sure ripped 'em apart with his league best cannon.

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LogicIsForSquares Apprentice

LogicIsForSquares

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Not sure why I'm even replying. Cody Kessler is Joe Montana now? Bring some of that crack down to San Diego bro.

If he were to replace Montana with Chad Pennington (before Mr. Glass), would you then debate the point?

 

I would absolutely take an injury free Pennington in the third. But I am also a Marshall fan.

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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I didn't like the math- but I did notice Kessler's velocity was 55 mph, correlates with the lame arm comments I've been seeing. Goff\Wentz 58, Lynch 59.

 

The guys on espn analyzing the draft indicated that if you consider our division and our home field, that will become a major issue for Kessler when we get into the second half of the season as it gets colder and windier. No protected dome to throw in and the ball will hang a lot more against the wind or into the swirls.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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The guys on espn analyzing the draft indicated that if you consider our division and our home field, that will become a major issue for Kessler when we get into the second half of the season as it gets colder and windier. No protected dome to throw in and the ball will hang a lot more against the wind or into the swirls.

Again, it never bothered Bill Nelsen, Brian Sipe, Bernie Kosar.....none of whom had rocket arms.

We have had rocket armed guys: Weeden, Anderson, Phipps...a couple of others....who sucked swamp water.

Give me the smart, accurate passer over the bazooka arm any day.....unless the guy with the bazooka also has the accuracy and smarts, like an Elway/Marino type.

 

And here is a question I don't know the answer to: He may be the greatest QB of all time, certainly the winningest. I wonder how strong and accurate Otto Grahams arm was supposed to be. Not having seen him live, I will just have to surmise.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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I guess Otto had a pretty good arm....see this:

 

Although Graham had been drafted in the first round by the NFL's Detroit Lions, he accepted a $7,500 contract and a $1,000 bonus to play with the Cleveland Browns, a team being organizing for the upstart All America Football Conference (AAFC) by Brown—whose powerful Ohio State team Graham had helped defeat as a college player. Graham later told Fred Goodall of the Associated Press "I wasn't that smart, but I made the best move of my life to go there and work with Paul. I didn't always love him, but he ran the show and taught us the basics of everything." Brown thought just as highly of Graham. "Otto was my greatest player," Brown is quoted in Encyclopedia of World Biography Supplement. "He had the finest peripheral vision I had ever seen, and that is a big factor in a quarterback. He was a tremendous playmaker. He had unusual eye-and-hand coordination, and he was bigger and faster than you thought."

"Automatic Otto"'s powerful and accurate arm, his coolness under pressure and his ability to execute Paul Brown's playbook transformed pro football from a running game to the passing game of the contemporary sport. "I could throw hard if I had to, I could lay it up soft, I could drill the sideline pass. God-given ability. The rest was practice, practice, practice," Graham told Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated in 1998. "I had the luxury of having the same receivers for almost my entire career. We developed the timed sideline attack, the comeback route where the receiver goes to the sideline, stops and comes back to the ball, with everything thrown on rhythm." Graham became one of the leading passers of the late 1940s and early 1950s. He led the NFL in passing twice, and in 1952 passed for 401 yards in a single victory againstPittsburgh, completing twenty-one of forty-nine.

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LondonBrown Enthusiast

LondonBrown

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The guys on espn analyzing the draft indicated that if you consider our division and our home field, that will become a major issue for Kessler when we get into the second half of the season as it gets colder and windier. No protected dome to throw in and the ball will hang a lot more against the wind or into the swirls.

 

This was/is my concern too but then again Hue knows all about the AFC North so he must't believe it's an issue

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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This was/is my concern too but then again Hue knows all about the AFC North so he must't believe it's an issue

Again, I don't know how much you know about the history of the Browns, but I have been watching them since the early 60s. Frank Ryan was the QB when I started paying attention. Frank was a bomber. I don't know how strong you would say his arm was, but he threw it down the field. It seemed to me to be more of a lob than a zip line. But he won titles and challenged for titles.

Bill Nelsen, his successor had what I thought was a fairly weak arm, at least compared to Ryan before him and Phipps behind him. But he too was a leader and an accurate passer. Phipps was a prototype: Big strong guy, big strong arm, big dumb brain. He could throw it very hard to the other team with the best of them. A lot of Inteceptaverde/DA/Weeden in him.

Brian Sipe.....noodle for an arm, but accurate and a great field leader.

Bernie: fairly strong arm at first, but injuries took their toll. But his forte wasn't his strong arm, but his leadership and accuracy.

Vinny....like those planets that always face the sun. Could be boiling hot on one side, and freezing cold on the other. Strong arm, but inconsistent. Did well at times, did poorly at times.

 

I won't go into the guys since 1999....but the fact is, the best QBs for the Browns have NOT had to have a mortar cannon for an arm. I heard the ESPN guys say about how the AFCN has cold weather and wind and you need a big strong arm to succeed here.

That is by NO means gospel truth.

How about we have a good leader, an accurate thrower...and IF he has a cannon arm that is a bonus imo, not the be all end all. It never has been here.

RG is supposed to have one of the strongest arms in the league. Fine. Can he throw accurately, can he lead a team? Can he stay healthy? I want to know those first and foremost over whether he resembles Nolan Ryan on a football field.

The same for Kessler. They say he has a weakish arm.....but also that he was one of THE most accurate passers in the nation in his college career. Can he lead as well as be accurate. That is what I want.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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I know right?

 

Comparing a weak-armed quarterback who has yet to take an NFL snap to Joe Montana to try to debate someone is pretty poor form.

I think the point of it was simple: Don't discount the potential of a QB because he has an alleged "weak arm". A guy with a "weak arm" can possibly overcome....as a Montana did, or a Sipe, or a few others. Joe Montana may have been only a 3rd round pick because of his perceived weak arm strength. Brian Sipe....only a 13th round pick because of a weak arm. Someone mentioned Chad Pennington (also injured his arm)

 

Now, certainly not everyone with a weakish arm succeeds.....but don't automatically dismiss someone simply because of that.

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Mike H Newbie

Mike H

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There's a big difference between dismissing someone because he has a weak arm and dismissing him because he isn't a great prospect. Besides being laughable, D Bone's "point" is hyperbole 101. I don't think he literally called Kessler the next Montana, just that what he did was use a weak tool.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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There's a big difference between dismissing someone because he has a weak arm and dismissing him because he isn't a great prospect. Besides being laughable, D Bone's "point" is hyperbole 101. I don't think he literally called Kessler the next Montana, just that what he did was use a weak tool.

Well, it appears to me, all things aside, that the main reason for people dismissing Kessler is because he has an alleged weak arm. The main reason for saying he is not a great prospect is because of his alleged weak arm.

(now, I...nor anyone else I have read have said that Kessler is a "great" prospect despite his weak arm....but he may still be a good to decent prospect. Not glorifying, nor dismissing him). You know, Russell Wilson and Johnny Manziel were too short. One didn't succeed and one didn't fail because of their height. And I suspect the same here.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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There's a big difference between dismissing someone because he has a weak arm and dismissing him because he isn't a great prospect. Besides being laughable, D Bone's "point" is hyperbole 101. I don't think he literally called Kessler the next Montana, just that what he did was use a weak tool.

 

Well Mike- the pick is in- I just hope Hue (Mr Quarterback Guru) knows what he's doing. I'm with you that I didn't care for it much. Remains to be seen if he turns out like a couple of our other third round flops- Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy, or something more like Russell Wilson. Should the Browns just get 6 years of quality backup out of Kessler (McCoy's trajectory) is it all that bad for a third round pick?

 

As was pointed out in another thread- the Pats didn't catch much flack for drafting Brissett ahead of Kessler- and he's as much a head scratcher. The difference is they still have Brady.

 

Me? Watson in 2017, unless Griffin returns to his rookie form- I'm not counting on that. :)

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Mike H Newbie

Mike H

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Well, it appears to me, all things aside, that the main reason for people dismissing Kessler is because he has an alleged weak arm. The main reason for saying he is not a great prospect is because of his alleged weak arm.

(now, I...nor anyone else I have read have said that Kessler is a "great" prospect despite his weak arm....but he may still be a good to decent prospect. Not glorifying, nor dismissing him). You know, Russell Wilson and Johnny Manziel were too short. One didn't succeed and one didn't fail because of their height. And I suspect the same here.

 

Saying that Joe Montana succeeded without a strong arm, then saying you don't believe Kessler is a great prospect are contradicting statements. I know you didn't say that, and I agree with you other than I don't believe he's a great prospect just because of his sub-elite arm strength.

 

Erratic throws, size, arm strength, accuracy past 20 yards, ball placement past 10 yards, slow delivery on deep throws, and check downs.

 

 

Well Mike- the pick is in- I just hope Hue (Mr Quarterback Guru) knows what he's doing. I'm with you that I didn't care for it much. Remains to be seen if he turns out like a couple of our other third round flops- Charlie Frye and Colt McCoy, or something more like Russell Wilson. Should the Browns just get 6 years of quality backup out of Kessler (McCoy's trajectory) is it all that bad for a third round pick?

 

As was pointed out in another thread- the Pats didn't catch much flack for drafting Brissett ahead of Kessler- and he's as much a head scratcher. The difference is they still have Brady.

 

Me? Watson in 2017, unless Griffin returns to his rookie form- I'm not counting on that. :)

 

I have been wrong before--everyone is, except Ghoolie--and I absolutey hated Brissett and am not a fan of Kessler. We'll see Larry

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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This was/is my concern too but then again Hue knows all about the AFC North so he must't believe it's an issue

 

Maybe because he had the largest hand size of any QB in the draft?

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TexasAg1969 Veteran

TexasAg1969

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Of all the draftees this statement stood out the most to me: "With the 154th pick, the Browns picked their third wide receiver and fourth weapon by selecting Jordan Payton from UCLA. Although an impressive athlete in his own right, Payton is the most polished and pro ready of the weapons the Browns have selected."

 

Kessler is likely very aware of the cross-town rival.

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The Gipper Newbie

The Gipper

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Saying that Joe Montana succeeded without a strong arm, then saying you don't believe Kessler is a great prospect are contradicting statements. I know you didn't say that, and I agree with you other than I don't believe he's a great prospect just because of his sub-elite arm strength.

 

Erratic throws, size, arm strength, accuracy past 20 yards, ball placement past 10 yards, slow delivery on deep throws, and check downs.

 

I expect that every single QB can have some of these same criticisms. See Below.

 

 

I have been wrong before--everyone is, except Ghoolie--and I absolutey hated Brissett and am not a fan of Kessler. We'll see Larry

Some stats on Kessler, as they apply to just FBS QBs:

 

Stat....Kessler's rank......FBS leader

 

1. Completion pct: 13th .668 (Brandon Doughty.)

 

2. Completions per game: 26th 21.29 (Luke Falk)

 

3. Passing Efficiency: 19th 151.7 (Vernon Adams Jr.)

 

4. Passing TDs: 15th 29 (Doughty)

 

5. Yards: 22d 3536 (Doughty)

 

6. Yards per game: 30th 252.6 (Falk)

 

7. Yards per attempt: 34th 7.93 (Adams)

 

8. Yards per completion: Not top 50 (Justin Thomas)

 

9. Points responsible for: 19th 198 (Doughty)

 

10. Points responsible per game: 30th 14.2 (Trevone Boykin)

 

11. Total Offense per game: 48th 241.9 (Patrick Mahones)

 

With these stats, the question is: Why were the FBS leaders in so many categories: Brandon Doughty West. Ky. and Vernon Adams, so overlooked? Doughty went in round 7 to Miami. Adams went undrafted. In fact, you don't see any QB drafted high in the lead in any category....though certainly Goff and Lynch were in the mix in some stats.

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D Bone Experienced

D Bone

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Kessler's stats weren't all that impressive, to make up for his lacking other qualities:

 

https://draftbreakdown.com/2016-nfl-draft-breaking-down-situational-quarterback-performance/

 

He's the all time USC completion % record holder that seldom turns the ball over, and was hand picked by his head coach, who is also known for developing QBs......... He has a lot going for him, and time will tell.

 

One thing I know for sure is, I for one will be rooting for him when he gets his shot and hopefully he's good enough to make it.

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Mike H Newbie

Mike H

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So you read that entire statistical and situational analysis that I linked of him and this year's class in 16 minutes? Impressive.

 

I wasn't a fan or impressed by plenty of QBs the Browns have had; Not being a fan of this one isn't a crime.

 

I also refuse to give Hue Jackson the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. I'm definitely heaps more optimistic than I was with high school Mike.

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