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Nfl Rumors: Banner To “Clean House” As Soon As Season Ends


tampadawgs

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Gipper, yes I forgot about Mangini, and didn't realize about Nick Skorich coaching the Eagels. Lol, I forgot I was writing in response to the forum historian.

 

According to profootballreference.com, Paul Brown's record as coach of the Browns was 158-48-8. Our all-time franchise mark of 494-420-13 means that since 1964, our record is 336-372-5.

 

78-159 since 1995, ouch.

 

2007 was a great season, a fun season, where we won 7 out of 8 home games- it was a great time going to the games. Nowadays, the best part of going seems to be the pregame tailgates.

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I think he should completely clean house.

 

Get Your people in from the start.

 

Fans, get used to Heckert being gone. He wasn't that great.

 

Dawson and Cribbs will probably never be Browns again either. I love those guys ... but it's over.

 

It's going to be a complete new regime, let's hope it ends the 4-12/5-11 nightmare that has become the Cleveland Browns.

 

Zombo

 

I'm fine with a housecleaning- just please no Mike Lombardi, the guy has been a epic FAIL anywhere he's been GM. Cribbs can leave as we have Benjamin. I would like to see Dawson finish his career as a Brown. Banner may decide Phil is overpaid, and Dawson (apparently) doesn't want to be in Cleveland either.

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Gipper, yes I forgot about Mangini, and didn't realize about Nick Skorich coaching the Eagels. Lol, I forgot I was writing in response to the forum historian.

 

According to profootballreference.com, Paul Brown's record as coach of the Browns was 158-48-8. Our all-time franchise mark of 494-420-13 means that since 1964, our record is 336-372-5.

 

78-159 since 1995, ouch.

 

2007 was a great season, a fun season, where we won 7 out of 8 home games- it was a great time going to the games. Nowadays, the best part of going seems to be the pregame tailgates.

 

I guess I have underestimated the amount of losing that has gone on the last decade such that it would have pushed the Browns record down so badly since PB left.

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Weeden had a decent rookie year. People need to relax. He will be good. As for Heckert, I have not heard a single name of a candidate that has worked as a GM with a comparable let alone better record of drafting. I am not sure why anyone would want to trade a proven talent evaluator for some unknown personnel director. Furthermore, Banner and Haslam have said that they are not going to rush into a decision and have not yet came to a final evaluation. I am not saying the Heckert and Shurmur's jobs are safe, but why don't people take them at their word until they have reason to do otherwise? Way too much unfounded speculation.

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Weeden was hurt in having a "outdated" WCO that didn't mix in Coryell vertical attack principles into the design. When Holmgren went to Seattle, he didn't run a straight up WCO with Hassle at all. I suspect that is what Mike was thinking about the Weeden selection and was basically advice for Pat.

 

Everything was horizontal and up front. I don't even have a problem throwing short, but the type of short throws were all the same. Mix some vertical, even short vertical routes into the mix and defenses would have had to play honest and actually design against it.

 

Weeden's biggest strengths are his velocity and anticipation. Shurmur's scheme didn't really take those strengths and use them. Shurm needs a Drew Brees type at min who can adjust on the run and draw a defense in with that type of old system.

 

That is why I can't be to down on Weeden. Really, I think you switch Luck/Weeden, you could argue both guy would have had better years, with Indy challenging for the division, Shurmur holding on. Weeden would have been in his element with Arians vertical offense and Luck would have been a better fit for Pat's "ways". So Luck "lucks" out even though he has crappy numbers because of the team and coach he played for. While Weeden takes it on the chin with this bad fit of a system.

 

Sounds like Banner is leaning toward the "strong coach" model. Lombardi will be brought as director of player personal and the coach will have final say and authority over the 53 man. Little surprise, I guess. That means everything is on the coaching decision. They have got to find the right guy for the job, or it is another painful pointless rebuilding.

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i agree with a lot of what people are saying. i myself wouldn't let heckert go. and although people might crucify me for this who are they going to bring in as a HC that isn't some old retread? saban would be good but he failed at this level once already. chip kelly? no thanks. are they seriously going to look at people like a special teams coach or a cam cameron? puke. i'd rather keep things intact next year just to let all the floaters rise to the top and the real shit sink.

 

this is what really disturbs me about this new regime. i'm sold 1000% on haslam, no doubt. BUT banner looks like an evil rat. i don't trust him at all. i know that doesn't mean squadoosh but i felt the same way about holmgren and how did that work out? haslam needs to not rely on everything banner says. lomabardi would be a huge mistake. banner's ties to philly are brain numbing and the talk of andy reid coming here are giving me irrital bowl syndrome. sure his record as head coach are better than shurms but his talent evaluation and going all-in on vick has sealed his fate. he should take a year off, reevaluate life and if they wanted him in 2014 i'd be down.

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Great history lesson by KGL! and a lot of valid observations. Don't agree JT was a wasted pick, but has performed at a decent level. As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. (minus qb, fa will be better than this class. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd. Guess will see how things start to unfold by end of Feb.

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As for trading him, totally agree. Move him on or before draft day, has to be worth a 2nd or better at the least. If we can do that, we pick best available at our greatest needs. Hell I would move Ward as well. Great in run support, but a liability in the passing game, also injury prone. Might be worth a extra 2nd rounder or 3rd.

 

yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?

 

a Left Tackle and a Safety.

 

great thinking!

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yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?

 

a Left Tackle and a Safety.

 

great thinking!

I wouldn't care if they traded Ward, but no way should they trade Thomas. You don;t trade away ALL-PRO left tackles

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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.

 

Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.

 

Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.

 

The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................

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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.

 

Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.

 

Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.

 

The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................

 

 

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having Josh McDaniels here. The Browns need a reimagination. The image needs to be revamped.

 

I say go with McDaniels, a fiery young coach who pisses people off.

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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.

 

Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.

 

Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.

 

The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................

 

Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.

 

 

2009 Draft:

1/12 Knowshon Moreno

1/18 Robert Ayers

2/37 Alphonso Smith

2/48 Darcel McBath

2/64 Richard Quinn

4/114 David Bruton

4/132 Seth Olsen

5/141 Kenny McKinley

6/174 Brandstater

7/225 Blake Schlueter

 

2010 Draft:

1/22 Demaryius Thomas

1/25 Tim Tebow

2/45 Zane Beadles

3/80 J.D. Walton

3/87 Eric Decker

5/187 Perrish Cox

6/183 Eric Olsen

7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson

7/232 Jammie Kirlew

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yeah you know what our greatest positions of need will be if we trade thomas and ward?

 

a Left Tackle and a Safety.

 

great thinking!

 

Exactly. And this is where I disagree with Ghoolie. Joe Thomas is to left tackles as Peyton Manning is to quarterbacks. He's arguably the best in the business at his position, neutralizes the best blind side pass rushers, and makes it look easy in the process.

 

So sure, let's trade away Joe- and draft a qb who has eyes in the back of his head. Maybe it would be enlightening if I posted a list of teams with substandard LTs, and correlate that with the number of games their qbs have missed.

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Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.

 

 

2009 Draft:

1/12 Knowshon Moreno

1/18 Robert Ayers

2/37 Alphonso Smith

2/48 Darcel McBath

2/64 Richard Quinn

4/114 David Bruton

4/132 Seth Olsen

5/141 Kenny McKinley

6/174 Brandstater

7/225 Blake Schlueter

 

2010 Draft:

1/22 Demaryius Thomas

1/25 Tim Tebow

2/45 Zane Beadles

3/80 J.D. Walton

3/87 Eric Decker

5/187 Perrish Cox

6/183 Eric Olsen

7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson

7/232 Jammie Kirlew

 

Well, then you will have to come to terms with it. The Browns coaching search has been in the makings for months. Our list was:

1.Bill Cowher: Simply wasn't going to happen. I think Bill is ready to return to coaching, but it will never be here for obvious reasons

2.Nick Saban: Just wasn't interested, to old. Is at his last stop.

3.Chip Kelly: Just wasn't interested enough, as he will get other job offers more attractive to him personally

4.Josh McDaniels

5.????????????????

 

I think it is no surprise that Lombardi/McDaniels were ushered out in the media around the time they were, it was Banner giving everybody a heads up. McDaniels will control the 53 man roster and Banner will control the financials. So the organization is set up as:

Haslam

Banner

McDaniels

 

Drafting is overrated in the NFL anyway. It is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent always key. Everybody is pretty good entering this league. It is the bad coaching and player relations that destroy teams. Butch Davis wasn't much of a drafter, but his fallout from acting like a douchebag after the 2002 season killed him, not his drafting.

 

BB sucked drafting in Cleveland.....so what changed in New England? He became the coach he could be.

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Drafting is overrated in the NFL anyway. It is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent always key. Everybody is pretty good entering this league. It is the bad coaching and player relations that destroy teams. Butch Davis wasn't much of a drafter, but his fallout from acting like a douchebag after the 2002 season killed him, not his drafting.

 

BB sucked drafting in Cleveland.....so what changed in New England? He became the coach he could be.

 

 

Interesting point you make about "drafting is overrated". There certainly is some evidence to that effect. The New Englands/Pittsburghs/Denver/Giants etc. never have high draft picks...and always seem to stay on top of the heap.

 

On the other hand...if you can get that primo QB high in the draft....Elway/P.Manning/E.Manning/..maybe Luck/RGIII,it perhaps can make all the difference to a team.

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Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.

 

 

2009 Draft:

1/12 Knowshon Moreno

1/18 Robert Ayers

2/37 Alphonso Smith

2/48 Darcel McBath

2/64 Richard Quinn

4/114 David Bruton

4/132 Seth Olsen

5/141 Kenny McKinley

6/174 Brandstater

7/225 Blake Schlueter

 

2010 Draft:

1/22 Demaryius Thomas

1/25 Tim Tebow

2/45 Zane Beadles

3/80 J.D. Walton

3/87 Eric Decker

5/187 Perrish Cox

6/183 Eric Olsen

7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson

7/232 Jammie Kirlew

 

Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.

 

That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.

 

Zombo

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There is pretty much only one circumstance I would ever think to say the next sentence.

 

'I will stop watching the browns if....'

 

Tim tebow is the starting quarterback.

 

All hype and nothing else. I can come to terms with mcdaniels as the head coach. As long as he doesn't try to fit tebow or Brady quinn into the folds... Remember we traded Quinn to Denver for Hillis and a draft pick... Really traderaped the broncos on that one.... And mcdaniels signed off on that.

 

I would like to see Andy reid or Denver OC come here before mcdaniels. But I can deal with anyone that is competent.

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We got the better of the Quinn trade for the draft pick, maybe. Hillis did have one decent year but ultimately ended up being a douche and a locker room cancer. The broncos and the browns showed the guy the door. How long will he stick around at Kansas city? At least Quinn is not an utter douche. He's not a quarterback though, either.

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Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.

 

This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.

 

Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........

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Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.

 

This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.

 

Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........

 

Isn't that more or less exactly what Weeden played in at Oklahoma St.?

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<I may be crazy, but now that Art Modell is dead, I think we start to ascend.>

 

Art Modell hasn't had any influence on the Browns since 1995. HOwever, he DIDN'T win his first Superbowl UNTIL he got out of Cleveland. LIKEWISE, until Belichik got out of Cleveland, he didn't win a SB either. Now he has three.

 

Perhaps it is Cleveland fans, like you, not understanding football but yet chirping out about what teh fans want that has kept the Browns in the shit soup? If anything, Cleveland seems to be a bad omen.

Let's see, I've been a Browns fan since 1970 & have a good handle on what's been going on.

 

<The guy fired Paul Brown,>>

 

As he should have. Paul Brown was not the owner nor the Emporer of the Browns. When he went behind Art Modell's back and traded Bobby Mitchell to draft Jim Brown clone Ernie Davis. he stepped over the line and sealed his own fate. Whether you hate Art or not, the Browns were HIS football team. Without Modell, as you saw in 1995, there was no Cleveland Browns.

 

The team didn't belong to the city, as it does in Green Bay. The team never belonged to teh fans, as it does in Greenbay. The team belonged to Art Modell, and in ANY corporation or company, an employee (PB) no matter how brilliant or popular, simply doesn't go above the owner, without telling him, and make a huge decision, without getting fired.

 

Some historians, not being vocal because it is such a sensitive subject, believe that Davis was showing signs of being sick BEFORE Paul Brown went and unloaded Mitchell. Now, while it was nobody's fault that Davis got sick, at the end of the day teh trade turned out as disastrous for the Browns as did trading Warfield for Phipps.

 

So, if you hate Modell's management skills for the Warfield debacle, you can't respect Brown for the Mitchell-Davis debacle. Being that Davis was as big and a little faster than Brown, WTF was Paul Brown thinking anyway?

It would be like Adrian Petersen and Reggie Bush on the same team.

Paul Brown fucked up then. When you are in charge, you're going to fuck up eventually.

Incidentally, Modell didn't take Brown's firing lightly. It was Modell who convinced the NFL to award the Cinci franchise to Brown, and Modell made it financially possible for Brown to rejoin the NFL. Art Modell did a lot of wonderful things for a lot of people....yes, he did. Very charitable person, no argument there.

 

If you want to blame someone, blame Kosar for winning the coin flip in "The Drive" game and coming out to the chant of the Denver Playes " He;s playing not to lose, he's playing not to lose". Blame Bynar for fumbling. Blame Sipe for throwing a shit pass. BLame Rutigliano for not trusting Cockroft.

I blame Schottenheimer, always did. Fontenot on 3rd &2, when you have other weapons? Pulling Puzzouli out after he sacked Elway?

Fuck you man, Modell gave the Browns SEVERAL real opportunities to go to the SB. It's not his fault the fuckers you guys adore blew it for him. As I remember, I never saw Art Modell with a helmet on in any games at all.

Several being the key word. You think that theory flew over well in Pittsburgh, Dallas, Oakland, LA Rams, for instance? We were basically irrelevant from 1973-79, had a great 1980 season, then irrelevant until 1985-89. 1994 Bellichick finally puts it all together, and Modell announces a move, then cans Bellichick as soon as the moving van hits Baltimore..

 

<<and we've been well below .500 ever since. Hell, we haven't even hired an experienced NFL coach since 1963.>>

 

Neither have the Steelers. What's your point?

My point was Paul Brown was 158-48-8. Yes, it seems he didn't adapt to some things, mostly player relations in the 60s. You're right though, it's Art's team- however, Art could have given him a bit more rope, he fired him quickly (like Jerry Jones did to Tom Landry).

 

<<Let's hope Haslam gets it right. If any fan base "deserves" a winner, it's us. This season made me sick, with Shurmer playing so damn conservative, and perhaps blowing the 22nd pick. >>

 

We have wasted MANY picks. Couch, Joe Thomas, Quinn, Winslow,Green and the list goes on. ALl things considered, Weeden has contributed mroe than most of our draft picks.

 

<<The roster doesn't need a complete overhaul, we're missing speed on defense and an impact LB. Make LB a priority, and address the guards so we can run block. Get a high energy coach that can teach...sounds easy, we'll see.>>

 

And herein lies the problem. The Browns have no QB, no WRs, not LBs or DBs who can truly change a game. We have no pass rushers and no really thunderous short yardage back. Shurmer indeed blows, but so too does Heckert.

 

This teams needs a COMPLETE overhaul and I would be fine with them cutting or trading all but perhaps 5 players.

 

Joe Thomis is an ABSOLUTE MUST to be traded while we can still get something for him.

 

<<I'm sick of seeing many teams go from 4-12 to 10-6,>>

 

If you don't watch teams that went 4-12 teh previous year, you won't get sick.

 

<<We're long overdue.>>

 

For what? A blowjob? I am pretty sure that the NFL doesn't have any rules to help teams who feel they are "over due". I beleive until the owner can turn a deaf ear to the local Cleveland media and fans, the Browns will continue to suck BBC.

My opinion, two cents. That's what a forum is for.

I am willing to predict that not only will the Browns one day soon be the only team never to go to a SB, but they will occupy that lowly position for many years to come.

 

We will know very soon. If Heckert, Cribbs, McCoy and Joe Thomas are not cleared out, you can count on more losing.

 

<I believe we have the NFC North & AFC East next year, so it won't be easy.>

 

Unless we play Austintown Fitch High School, it is not going to be easy.

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Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.

 

That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.

 

Zombo

 

Including Mike Adams, who wasn't good enough for the Browns. :/

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Why hasn't Gruden's name come up as new coach of the Browns?

the guy is making millions of dollars behind the mike. just like every other fraud. stay in the cushy job, talk shit, look like you've been on a month long crack binge......but who gives a shit?

 

that tells you right there that the guy would rather be mister mysterious 'chucky' than put his rep on the line and come back and coach a team that might 'taint' his already questionable record. how's all his QB sit-downs doing? all these guys are gonna be all pros..blah blah blah.

 

fuck that POS.

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