OldBrownsFan Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 If plan A is starting Manziel I hope they have a good plan B. I like Connor Shaw but he does not have the arm strength. Defenses will soon shut him down with his inability to throw the long ball. Hoyer most likely will be gone. I don't see Manziel ever making it in the NFL and I see the CFL in his future where his style of play may actually work. I don't see the Browns giving up valuable draft picks to trade up for a QB when they have serious needs on both sides of the ball. Maybe there is a good mid round prospect? Mudfly showed a few of them that looked good. I think they need to find the best veteran quarterback and that is their best bet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GL6LH6ufhM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 i think first of all they have to get their OC in place. once that's done i'm sure there will be some type of high-level meeting to discuss exactly what you're talking about. keep manziel or trade him if there are offers? but then there'll be 2 QB spots open. maybe a vet to ride it out until next year while they draft another rookie QB somewhere in the mid rounds? a lot will depend on whether or not farmer, pettine and the OC are sold on manziel and if they think the kid is coachable and will actually progress. another problem is the browns aren't the only team looking for that QB gem. i think you'll see some trades for team's #2s and if the browns don't make a play for a decent FA or someone's backup they'll be picking from the bottom of the barrel in june. that's why it's important to get this OC in place as soon as possible so they can cement a plan. IMO they are moving way too slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I think Haslam and Farmer should let Pettine make the call on the OC and just tell him who do you want and then go out and try and make it happen (and like you say be quick about it but take enough time to get it right as well). As they plan for this year I am sure Pettine is looking back at what caused the collapse at the end of the year. At one point 6-3 and first in the division and how they ended up at 7-9? Sometimes in going forward it is important to look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Plan for what? Offense, defense, special teams? Offense: A. Get new OC B. Bring in a different veteran QB, not Hoyer, to start C. Bring in a FA WR D. Draft a WR and a OL in the first few rounds. E. Try to resign Cameron Jordan....or is it Jordan Cameron? Defense A. Try to retain most of our FAs (but a couple will probably go) B. Draft replacements on DL and LB C. Go after more quality defenders in FA Special Teams A. Get a goddamn return guy (s B. Get a goddamn return guy C. Get a goddamn return guy D. Get a gunner. E. To accomplish ABC....steal Torrey Smith from the Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Plan for what? Offense, defense, special teams? They need help in all those areas. As for special teams this year I wish they just would have just taken a knee in the end zone after every kick off as it got frustrating so many times never getting the ball out past the 12 to 15 yard line. The main plan should be for this club to get out of the cellar every year. There is no good reason any NFL team should have been as bad as the Browns the past 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 I don't crunch the numbers like some who post here. I have no doubt there are some here who if given the chance would have drafted much better than the people making the big bucks for the past 15 years. Draft picks are a terrible thing to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Plan for what? Offense, defense, special teams? Offense: A. Get new OC B. Bring in a different veteran QB, not Hoyer, to start C. Bring in a FA WR D. Draft a WR and a OL in the first few rounds. E. Try to resign Cameron Jordan....or is it Jordan Cameron? Defense A. Try to retain most of our FAs (but a couple will probably go) B. Draft replacements on DL and LB C. Go after more quality defenders in FA Special Teams A. Get a goddamn return guy (s B. Get a goddamn return guy C. Get a goddamn return guy D. Get a gunner. E. To accomplish ABC....steal Torrey Smith from the Ravens. for E) love the guy to death but I would far prefer seeing us get Julius Thomas, I really think he will hit the market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Trey Williams totally underutilized RB was the fastest, shiftiest guy on the whole A&M team with excellent balance and open field moves. He would be good in late rounds or as undrafted free agent the Browns would have nothing to lose by taking a look. #4 RB overall out of HS one slot behind Yeldon from Bama (Amari Cooper was #46 overall, Yeldon #55 and TW #56 in ESPN Top 100), but faster. He has the potential to double as a ko/punt returner and as a RB. Very good hands. Whoever gets him gets a steal if he is undrafted. I think he also has potential in the slot on the order of all those little bastards who've done well like Amandola and Welker. He did not fit Sumlin's system so rarely was in the game. RB in that system has to be a bad ass blocker and he was just too small. He still averaged 6.9 ypc when he was in though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 for E) love the guy to death but I would far prefer seeing us get Julius Thomas, I really think he will hit the market Does Thomas return kicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Trey Williams totally underutilized RB was the fastest, shiftiest guy on the whole A&M team with excellent balance and open field moves. He would be good in late rounds or as undrafted free agent the Browns would have nothing to lose by taking a look. #4 RB overall out of HS one slot behind Yeldon from Bama (Amari Cooper was #46 overall, Yeldon #55 and TW #56 in ESPN Top 100), but faster. He has the potential to double as a ko/punt returner and as a RB. Very good hands. Whoever gets him gets a steal if he is undrafted. I think he also has potential in the slot on the order of all those little bastards who've done well like Amandola and Welker. He did not fit Sumlin's system so rarely was in the game. RB in that system has to be a bad ass blocker and he was just too small. He still averaged 6.9 ypc when he was in though. Any other second/third stringers you want to recommend? (spelled it right this time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Spend more. That 30 mill under the cap we always end up with probably could buy more talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 16, 2015 Report Share Posted January 16, 2015 Any other second/third stringers you want to recommend? (spelled it right this time) I'm just saying it would likely cost the Browns no draft choice to bring in a guy who was not used they way he should have been. I'm also telling you he is one really good runback specialist which this team needs desperately. Far better than anyone on the roster now for that job and has real potential as a slot man with speed, moves and quicks in the open field. Our loss to ignore the possibilities he presents at next to nothing in cost. PS-they rotated the 3 main backs so he was not exactly 3rd string. Against some teams he started out first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I say sign Tim Tebow and play to his strengths, which also suit Manzell. I did see Tebow win in the NFL, even at the playoff level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I say sign Tim Tebow and play to his strengths, which also suit Manzell. I did see Tebow win in the NFL, even at the playoff level. it's official. everyone has lost their mind. the zombie apocalypse is right around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 OC like now. Trestman I trust, Bears could move the ball. I do not like OC from with in, but I see it coming.. OC must be involved with FA and draft and decisions got to be made at QB,OL,TE and WR's..The draft starts at number 4 with Oakland on the board and Amari Cooper coming off the board and I say package Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 for E) love the guy to death but I would far prefer seeing us get Julius Thomas, I really think he will hit the market No thanks. A TE that refuses to block and goes full vagina mode over the middle. I'd gladly take Demarius, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 OC like now. Trestman I trust, Bears could move the ball. I do not like OC from with in, but I see it coming.. OC must be involved with FA and draft and decisions got to be made at QB,OL,TE and WR's..The draft starts at number 4 with Oakland on the board and Amari Cooper coming off the board and I say package Gordon it'd take A LOT to move up to get cooper. why throw half our draft away when the team needs a lot of help at so many positions (particularly onthe LOS)? remember how OSU won the national championship? yep, dominating the LOS with a good running game. things that have worked since the beginning of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 it'd take A LOT to move up to get cooper. why throw half our draft away when the team needs a lot of help at so many positions (particularly onthe LOS)? remember how OSU won the national championship? yep, dominating the LOS with a good running game. things that have worked since the beginning of time. Totally agree on LOS but with Mack returning it's a hell lot better.We need better backups on OL and first round picks are starters not backups, unless you are named gilbert or manziel.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Totally agree on LOS but with Mack returning it's a hell lot better.We need better backups on OL and first round picks are starters not backups, unless you are named gilbert or manziel.. hopefully ONE of the OL they draft will be a flex guy who might be mack's backup or replacement. who knows how he comes back from his injury. then there's the DL and LBs we need. i know we need WRs but there's gotta be guys on farmer's board that won't cost us future picks. but hey, if you can move up and grab someone you want because you throw gordon in the pot......i'm all for it. hell throw manziel in there too and move up another spot or two, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 They need to get an OT that can beat Schwartz for the RT job and replace JT when he eventually retires. Schwartz then becomes that solid depth we need on the line. We still need to also get a center to back up Mack, too. If it were my call I'd go OT and DT in the first round, WR in the second, and QB and Center in third and fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 They need to get an OT that can beat Schwartz for the RT job and replace JT when he eventually retires. Schwartz then becomes that solid depth we need on the line. Well my chosen guy RT Cedric Ogbuehi has dropped out of Mel Kiper's first round mock draft. Torn ACL in their bowl game against W.V. and has dropped out of the Senior Bowl while recovering from surgery. Browns now might be able to pick him up cheap in a later round. He had been listed as the #2 OT and 11th overall before the injury. You just never know how someone recovers from an ACL tear. Most are fine but just a few never return to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well my chosen guy RT Cedric Ogbuehi has dropped out of Mel Kiper's first round mock draft. Torn ACL in their bowl game against W.V. and has dropped out of the Senior Bowl while recovering from surgery. Browns now might be able to pick him up cheap in a later round. He had been listed as the #2 OT and 11th overall before the injury. You just never know how someone recovers from an ACL tear. Most are fine but just a few never return to form. Mel Kiper is a fucking tool. Never use any of his mocks or sensationalist drivel in a discussion bro. Fuck that douche. He is wrong way way way more than he is right. He's a jackass with no legit football pedigree or experience.... Nothing more than a moronic nincompoop ESPN likes to prop up as a "qualified and knowledgeable" draft expert. Sorry I really hate that man. But in regards to "the plan", I think our best move is to continue acquiring talent by taking the BPA throughout the draft. Constantly drafting for need, at least in my mind, can really fuck a team out of some great talent. I think it causes alot of teams to acquire tunnel vision throughout the pre draft process because the become so focused in on specific needs they want to fill that they begin to lose sight of all the potential talent outside said needs. I believe that if Farmer, with his revamped scouting department, develops a draft board based solely on ranking the best talent available while putting aside our perceived needs and sticks to it, he will stand a much better chance of getting players to help this team become a winner. We still need fresh bodies just about everywhere. Drafting for a specific need is something I think should be reserved to those teams that are already loaded with talent and are legit playoff contenders with a hole here or there that needs patching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumbergh Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Hoyer most likely will be gone. Why not keep Hoyer? And where else would he go? Dump Jonny Fuckup and keep Hoyer. It's a no brainier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Why not keep Hoyer? And where else would he go? Dump Jonny Fuckup and keep Hoyer. It's a no brainier. For once.. we agree.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Mel Kiper is a fucking tool. Never use any of his mocks or sensationalist drivel in a discussion bro. Fuck that douche. He is wrong way way way more than he is right. He's a jackass with no legit football pedigree or experience.... Nothing more than a moronic nincompoop ESPN likes to prop up as a "qualified and knowledgeable" draft expert. Sorry I really hate that man. But in regards to "the plan", I think our best move is to continue acquiring talent by taking the BPA throughout the draft. Constantly drafting for need, at least in my mind, can really fuck a team out of some great talent. I think it causes alot of teams to acquire tunnel vision throughout the pre draft process because the become so focused in on specific needs they want to fill that they begin to lose sight of all the potential talent outside said needs. I believe that if Farmer, with his revamped scouting department, develops a draft board based solely on ranking the best talent available while putting aside our perceived needs and sticks to it, he will stand a much better chance of getting players to help this team become a winner. We still need fresh bodies just about everywhere. Drafting for a specific need is something I think should be reserved to those teams that are already loaded with talent and are legit playoff contenders with a hole here or there that needs patching. I think a hybrid approach is best. Obviously you don't want to reach just to fill a need, but I think just sticking to BPA is its own form of tunnel vision. What a GM should do is group players into tiers. If on your turn to pick, you have a group of players in the same tier (meaning similar talent level) you should then pick the one who fills the greatest need, but never dip into a lower tier just to fill a need. If only one player remains in your 1st tier, and he doesn't fit a need, I'd then still pick him or trade the pick down to pick up assets for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Just to add....it is pretty rare the players line out in a convenient order. You always have groups of players of about the same value when your draft slot comes up. As you said, you then select the guy who best fits your team. Many times that means need, but not always. There are other factors, such as locker room fit, etc. Occasionally someone of superior talent level drops, at which point you probably disregard need and select him unless he fails in the other areas. A exaggerated example of that is the Colts don't need a QB, but if Mariotta drops to them, they would probably take him. Again, that is a crazy example, but you get what I am saying. There are no teams that have no needs. Everybody needs something. The problem most of us fans have is we select some big board list and go with that. I doubt Farmer or other GM's take Rob Rangs list as an example and go with that. They form their own, and many times they grade out a player higher or lower than the guys with the "lists" do. I don't know if they adjust the grade, but they probably have a priority scale that grants one position a bit higher than another position. I am sure all teams are setting their boards and really looking at the target players who should be around near their draft position. They are also looking at target players they either think they will have to move up to get, or can trade down a bit to get. They also have to consider future drafts. As an example, this years #1 might project out to #8 compared to next year. You can slide that down as many picks as you like. If so, you might want to garner picks for next season. But in the end, you should always select best player given my earlier thoughts. What I am saying is you should never set a positional prioity list and go with that. You have to have flexibility. You can't say we need a receiver at #1 and go with that no matter what and force the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I think a hybrid approach is best. Obviously you don't want to reach just to fill a need, but I think just sticking to BPA is its own form of tunnel vision. What a GM should do is group players into tiers. If on your turn to pick, you have a group of players in the same tier (meaning similar talent level) you should then pick the one who fills the greatest need, but never dip into a lower tier just to fill a need. If only one player remains in your 1st tier, and he doesn't fit a need, I'd then still pick him or trade the pick down to pick up assets for the future. I can agree with your logic here. Here is my fear: I believe the majority of our first round fuck ups and flops are the result of reaching for presumed needs. Brady Quinn, Weeden, Winslow, Richardson, etc etc. I want to see this cycle broken. As far as last years draft goes I believe that Farmer originally had different plans for the no.4 pick put had a offer he could not refuse from Buffalo. So he took and and stock piled a first for this years draft and rolled the dice on a player with incredible athletic talent and upside who needed a lot of work on his technique and work ethic. Then, as the draft progressed down through the first round to our next pick things get a bit murkier..... My best guess is that Haslam, nor Farmer, was pushing and pushing for a quarterback and he simply could not resist the temptation of Johnny Fuckup. So he shoved the pick on the FO and told Farmer to go get him. It is now pretty obvious at least up till the present that was a huge mistake and one of a kind with the classic reaches I pointed out above. I could be totally wrong but that's my opinion and best guess. I don't see Johnny Bitchtits as a Farmer type of guy. But I don't really know farmer so that's just another guess.... Anyways, I digress. I would just love to see our front office go out and take the best talent they can get their hands on in the draft and quit reaching like a bunch of desperate man children for players to rescue a particular position or need.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuNNerGatSKi Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Just to add....it is pretty rare the players line out in a convenient order. You always have groups of players of about the same value when your draft slot comes up. As you said, you then select the guy who best fits your team. Many times that means need, but not always. There are other factors, such as locker room fit, etc. Occasionally someone of superior talent level drops, at which point you probably disregard need and select him unless he fails in the other areas. A exaggerated example of that is the Colts don't need a QB, but if Mariotta drops to them, they would probably take him. Again, that is a crazy example, but you get what I am saying. There are no teams that have no needs. Everybody needs something. The problem most of us fans have is we select some big board list and go with that. I doubt Farmer or other GM's take Rob Rangs list as an example and go with that. They form their own, and many times they grade out a player higher or lower than the guys with the "lists" do. I don't know if they adjust the grade, but they probably have a priority scale that grants one position a bit higher than another position. I am sure all teams are setting their boards and really looking at the target players who should be around near their draft position. They are also looking at target players they either think they will have to move up to get, or can trade down a bit to get. They also have to consider future drafts. As an example, this years #1 might project out to #8 compared to next year. You can slide that down as many picks as you like. If so, you might want to garner picks for next season. But in the end, you should always select best player given my earlier thoughts. What I am saying is you should never set a positional prioity list and go with that. You have to have flexibility. You can't say we need a receiver at #1 and go with that no matter what and force the pick. I can understand your logic as well peen. Look, I get drafting players is a murky, cryptic process. There are so many variables and nuances, so many things to take into account, intangibles that triely cannot be known until after the player has been selected and played professionally for a few years. Even if the prospect is a fine physical specimen with an excellent work ethic and drive to be great they still have to make the transition to NFL speed, philosophy, and technique in order have any hope of being more than a bust. In other words a lot of it is a crap shoot. I just want to see a GM who sticks to a legit board and takes the BPA. Not some schmuck of a half ass QB or RB or WR who sucks donkey balls and never fulfills his draft position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Well my chosen guy RT Cedric Ogbuehi has dropped out of Mel Kiper's first round mock draft. Torn ACL in their bowl game against W.V. and has dropped out of the Senior Bowl while recovering from surgery. Browns now might be able to pick him up cheap in a later round. He had been listed as the #2 OT and 11th overall before the injury. You just never know how someone recovers from an ACL tear. Most are fine but just a few never return to form. Of more concern is why Ogbuehi falling during the year. He started as DraftScout's top OT, but was #3 by season's end. Apparently the transition to LT did not go as smoothly as hoped. FYI, post injury DraftScout now has him as the #7 OT and a 2nd/3rd rounder. Mel Kiper is a fucking tool. Never use any of his mocks or sensationalist drivel in a discussion bro. Fuck that douche. He is wrong way way way more than he is right. As would anyone be if they tried to rate the top couple hundred players. Kiper is what he is... he just has been what he is longer than anyone else on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBrownsFan Posted January 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 I say sign Tim Tebow and play to his strengths, which also suit Manzell. I did see Tebow win in the NFL, even at the playoff level. I liked Tebow and wanted to see him make it in the NFL but he has been evaluated by some of the best and found not to be capable and I accept that. I also believe though if Tebow wasn't so dead set to being an NFL quarterback only and not any other position he has the size and ability to play in the NFL as a tight end. He said he wouldn't give it a try but I think that would have given him the best shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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