Gerbil Peppers Signs

[MLD Woody]

I'm already on record that Peppers is going to be a blown pick. I'll enjoy nothing more than eating my hat if I'm wrong. But seriously, you have a wonderful opportunity to pick an Ohio State safety that is projected to be a once in a decade stud, and you elect to trade down for a first rounder next year (likely a late one) and select a Michigan tweener that many projected to fall into the secondary round. That's not how you build a good football team.

Yes, we could have paid more for a safety that's less versatile and that has bad shoulders. See how that works?

 

I assume we'll never hear the end of the "we could have had Hooker!" stuff from the OSU fans here

[One Post]

Yup it behooves both sides to get a deal done. The team doesn't want to effectively loose the pick, & the player doesn't want to loose a year of $$$. Don't think it's ever happened.

It happened to John Elway right?

[The Gipper]

Yes, we could have paid more for a safety that's less versatile and that has bad shoulders. See how that works?

 

I assume we'll never hear the end of the "we could have had Hooker!" stuff from the OSU fans here

It will depend on how the two of them perform...will it not?

 

Though...in some quarters I have heard an alternate, but similar version of your exclamatory statement that went like this:

We could have Hookers"!

[The Gipper]

It happened to John Elway right?

No. Elway threatened it by saying he would play baseball and not signing with the Colts. (He and his dad and his agent wanted absolutely no part of Frank Kush or Robert Irsay).....instead he was traded...for Chris Hinton and other considerations.

One of the best ESPN 30 for 30 stories was about the 1983 draft, focusing on the agent for both Marino and Elway. (it is a very self serving story for this guy....but the story is good):

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ta69v

[nickers]

No. Elway threatened it by saying he would play baseball and not signing with the Colts. (He and his dad and his agent wanted absolutely no part of Frank Kush or Robert Irsay).....instead he was traded...for Chris Hinton and other considerations.

One of the best ESPN 30 for 30 stories was about the 1983 draft, focusing on the agent for both Marino and Elway. (it is a very self serving story for this guy....but the story is good):

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ta69v

 

 

Seeing as how Bert Jones was mishandled.. I'd want no part either...

[The Gipper]

 

 

Seeing as how Bert Jones was mishandled.. I'd want no part either...

At heart I couldn't really blame Elway at all.....but...he did come off terribly arrogant over the matter. (and his agent comes off completely arrogant in that movie) And, of course Elway's obvious lies about it wanting to play in warm weather didn't help. Denver is warm but Baltimore wasn't? Bottom line: Elway made the right move.

Also...of note if you watch that....the Browns did not have a first round pick that year when 6 QBs were taken.

[Flugel]

Yes, we could have paid more for a safety that's less versatile and that has bad shoulders. See how that works?

 

I assume we'll never hear the end of the "we could have had Hooker!" stuff from the OSU fans here

 

I lost a lot of my excitement and intrigue for Hooker when I found out he had a torn labrum. In fact, after only 1 season of starting at Ohio State - the wear and tear necessitated 2 off season surgeries.

 

I love the Buckeyes and thought Hooker was exciting to watch. That said, he's going to be playing in space colliding with bigger, faster and stronger athletes. We weren't the only team that didn't want to take a risk on his injured flipper. For being a talent like him, he dropped all the way to #15 overall.

 

Gruden had a very sensible take about Peppers. He said his experience as a LBer, Corner and Safety will come in handy for NFL DCs that need this kind of versatility for all of the different kinds of matchups their secondaries will face from 1 week to the next. My best friend who was an All Planet LBer back in the day with ideal instincts and football smarts is a School Up North fan who loves Peppers. When I dared to ask why he doesn't have very many INTs and if his height will be a liability - he told me "I don't want to hear your internet world according to Buckeye fans bs about him. I'm the one that has watched him every week, every year he played. He's the best player they've had since Woodson." Then I looked at how many awards he got for his performance and project what Gregg Williams can do with his talent. It's enough to get really excited about. Check it out:

• Lott Trophy (2016)
• Paul Hornung Award (2016)
• Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year (2016)
• Big Ten Freshman of the Year (2015)
• Unanimous All-American (2016)
• Second-team All-American (2015)
• 2× First-team All-Big Ten (2015, 2016)

What's to hate?

[The Gipper]

 

I lost a lot of my excitement and intrigue for Hooker when I found out he had a torn labrum. In fact, after only 1 season of starting at Ohio State - the wear and tear necessitated 2 off season surgeries.

 

I love the Buckeyes and thought Hooker was exciting to watch. That said, he's going to be playing in space colliding with bigger, faster and stronger athletes. We weren't the only team that didn't want to take a risk on his injured flipper. For being a talent like him, he dropped all the way to #15 overall.

 

Gruden had a very sensible take about Peppers. He said his experience as a LBer, Corner and Safety will come in handy for NFL DCs that need this kind of versatility for all of the different kinds of matchups their secondaries will face from 1 week to the next. My best friend who was an All Planet LBer back in the day with ideal instincts and football smarts is a School Up North fan who loves Peppers. When I dared to ask why he doesn't have very many INTs and if his height will be a liability - he told me "I don't want to hear your internet world according to Buckeye fans bs about him. I'm the one that has watched him every week, every year he played. He's the best player they've had since Woodson." Then I looked at how many awards he got for his performance and project what Gregg Williams can do with it. It's enough to get really excited about.

Still....no or few ints for his position could raise question mark about his ball skills....plus, his coverage skills have already been questioned. While he may be the best athlete since Jim Thorpe, in the NFL the whole jack of all trades, master of none may not work no matter how good of an athlete you are. Hopefully that will all prove to be negatory. But, until he actually does proves it, there may be reasons that he dropped from a projected top 10 to #26 that have nothing to do with diluted urine samples. Is he just a glorified kick returner? (not that that is not something the Browns need desperately).

And he can't prove diddley if he doesn't sign and get into camp.

[Flugel]

Still....no or few ints for his position could raise question mark about his ball skills....plus, his coverage skills have already been questioned. Is he just a glorified kick returner? (not that that is not something the Browns need desperately).

And he can't prove diddley if he doesn't sign and get into camp.

 

It depends on how he was used. Fans in here questioned his coverage skills not to be confused with SB Winning HC Jon Gruden that praised what his instincts and flexible roles/experience at Michigan offers an NFL DC. How was Peppers the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year in 2016 if he's only a glorified kick returner? Come on - set the college rivalry aside here.

 

Here's a link to short video that shows some good defense as well as what he offered his offense and STs.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=tightropetb&p=youtube+of+jabril+Peppers#id=4&vid=b6d1166685ac81de15334d2483129186&action=view

[BaconHound]

I know it happens but don't like the look from a guy who's draft position is still in question.

[MLD Woody]

Your Michigan fan friend is a little too fanatic. I'm not sure if he's our "best player since Woodson". That's a stretch.

 

Yes, he won a ton of awards. First to win Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Special Teams Player of the Year.

 

His height has nothing to do with his lack of INTs. His position and how he was used, does.

[MLD Woody]

I know it happens but don't like the look from a guy who's draft position is still in question.

According to you

 

Probably not to Williams

[BaconHound]

According to you

 

Probably not to Williams

 

 

Others who know more football than me also share that opinion. I would hope the front office, head coach, defensive coordinator & position coaches all liked a player they selected in the first round. Then again that can be said of most first round draft choices.

[bjh2130]

I honestly don't understand how he won defensive player of the year. Like if there were a most versatile player of the year absolutely he should win that. I'm worried he won't have a position in the pros. Here are his statistics and rankings just on Michigan's team in these statistics

 

Total Tackles: 72, 3rd on Michigan

Tackles for loss: 13, 4th on Michigan

Sacks: 4, 8th on Michigan

Interceptions: 1, tied for 8th on Michigan

Passes broken up: 1, tied for 9th on Michigan

Forced fumbles: 0, unranked on Michigan

Fumble recoveries: 0, unranked on Michigan

Defensive touchdowns: 0, unranked on Michigan

 

My other concern with him is when he played better competition he disappeared even more so than the lackluster stats above.

 

His production or lack thereof in Michigan's tilts vs. Penn State, vs. Wisconsin, at Iowa and at Ohio State:

 

20 total tackles

0 TFL

0 sacks

1 interception

0 passes broken up

0 forced fumbles

0 fumble recoveries

0 defensive TDs

 

I'm rooting like hell for the guy to prove me wrong and show me he has a true defensive position and I trust Gregg Williams to put him in spots to succeed. As I said he was the most versatile player last year in college football and potentially ever. I personally would rather see him in the back field at running back. I know that's not what he wants but I think if he had played offense solely at Michigan and was strictly a running back he would have been a top ten pick. All in all I do not agree he was the best defensive player and worry he may not have a position but I'm fine we drafted him because of his versatility and even if he doesn't pan out as a safety/linebacker hybrid he will undoubtedly be a great returner and he has the skills to switch sides of the ball if he doesn't work out defensively. That's not saying he will definitely work out on the offensive side either but more chances to be great at something is always,a good thing.

[Flugel]

Your Michigan fan friend is a little too fanatic. I'm not sure if he's our "best player since Woodson". That's a stretch. - Woody

 

HA! Thatta boy! Yes, he can be every bit of a football patriot as many of us Buckeye fans you detest. I think he was coming from an angle that nobody else scored TDs from the QB position, RB position, defense, punt returner and kick off returner throughout their freshman and soph seasons. That's quite an impact coming from quite a talent . - Flugel

 

Yes, he won a ton of awards. First to win Big Ten Defensive Player of the Year and Special Teams Player of the Year. - Woody

 

Thanks for making my friend's point even stronger. That's pretty decorated for just a sophomore. Speaking of stretches, you want me to believe you've really had others with this kind of immediate impact there since Woodson? Even Tom Brady didn't start until he was a junior that threw 14 TD passes to 10 INTs, which improved to 16 TD passes to 6 INTs as a senior. That made him a 6th round draft pick who ended up with much better passing statistics as an NFL starter. So what did his pedestrian college stats really mean to his pro career? Why can't the same be true for Peppers? - Flugel

 

His height has nothing to do with his lack of INTs. - Woody

 

I never said it did Woodsies. Height and INTs were 2 separate questions I had. I'm already wordy enough and didn't feel the height thing needed splainin. Since it does now, Tight Ends range from 6'3" to 6'7" in the NFL and when you factor in their longer levers - the catch radius can be a concern for Safeties/DBs under 6' in coverage.

 

As for the lack of INTs, I just wondered if he lacked some coverage instincts in space. The reply I got was summed up similar to your explanation "it's because of how he was used." And that was clarified that it wasn't because of what Peppers lacked - it was because of the X-factor/advantage he added to matchups the coaching staff identified. Harbaugh's description was very similar. All that from a sophomore? Nice! All that said, film shows some evidence of stone hands or catches like Edward Scissorhands. - Flugel

[MLD Woody]

Your last paragraph is pretty accurate. And to the poster above you, that had a lot to do with him winning the award. Stats aside, he was the best defensive player in the conference. He could do anything well, and a lot of things very well.

 

If we're just talking college Denard probably had more of an impact on his team. Very early in his career as well.

[jiggins7919]

I remember when I read that Peppers had the same agent as Bosa, and I immediately knew it would be an issue. Even in this day where rookie contracts are virtually NEVER a problem, we all knew this would happen. Now we're in the middle on July and it doesn't look like there's any progress being made. Of course, he could sign it today for all we know, but we'll see. It wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see this go into August.

[bjh2130]

Your last paragraph is pretty accurate. And to the poster above you, that had a lot to do with him winning the award. Stats aside, he was the best defensive player in the conference. He could do anything well, and a lot of things very well.

 

If we're just talking college Denard probably had more of an impact on his team. Very early in his career as well.

I'm just saying that there were guys more deserving of the best defensive player in the league. Tj watt for one. Doing things well doesn't make you the best. When I think of a defensive player of the year I think it should be a guy who impacted a big majority of the games he was in on the defensive side of the ball. Peppers impacted games more on special teams. And impacted games more on offense more frequently than he did defensively. I don't know if it was because he was trying to learn so many positions but he over ran a lot of plays and was out of position a lot. I do think he is an intelligent football player so I'm hoping concentrating on one position allows him to learn and eliminate some of those mistakes. I hope your advice to Gregg pays off and he is a stud.

[MLD Woody]

I'm just saying that there were guys more deserving of the best defensive player in the league. Tj watt for one. Doing things well doesn't make you the best. When I think of a defensive player of the year I think it should be a guy who impacted a big majority of the games he was in on the defensive side of the ball. Peppers impacted games more on special teams. And impacted games more on offense more frequently than he did defensively. I don't know if it was because he was trying to learn so many positions but he over ran a lot of plays and was out of position a lot. I do think he is an intelligent football player so I'm hoping concentrating on one position allows him to learn and eliminate some of those mistakes. I hope your advice to Gregg pays off and he is a stud.

I don't think you watched any Michigan games. He barely did anything on offense. That was actually one of the fans biggest complaints last year, poor use of Peppers on O.

 

His impact on D goes beyond stats. He caused offenses to completely change their game plan. He has a huge impact on D because he could impact an.offense from any position

[Westside Steve]

I know it happens but don't like the look from a guy who's draft position is still in question.

This.

WSS

[Flugel]

I remember when I read that Peppers had the same agent as Bosa, and I immediately knew it would be an issue. Even in this day where rookie contracts are virtually NEVER a problem, we all knew this would happen. Now we're in the middle on July and it doesn't look like there's any progress being made. Of course, he could sign it today for all we know, but we'll see. It wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see this go into August.

 

Well, last year there were people posting the Chargers were the ones penny pinching - Not Bosa and agent. In fairness, they posted articles to back their pov.

 

Our situation is a little different due to the fact we have 3 different 1st round picks we have to bottleneck into 1 rookie salary cap. On top of that, Peppers didn't go to Ohio State while the 1 year starter (Hooker) with a torn labrum and hernia (both requiring surgery) did go to Ohio State. This isn't aimed at you Jiggsies. Gee, why would a torn labrum for a Safety playing in space that will be repeatedly colliding with bigger, faster stronger players be worthy of us not picking at #12 overall; especially when there's already people expressing concerns about a slow healing ankle injury + a foot injury (on the same leg) of our #1 overall pick?

 

Nobody picked Hooker before #12 or at #12 or at #13 or #14 so let's not pretend this was the only team seeing a red flag with the shoulder. What do some fans know that NFL sports med staffs couldn't possibly understand? Reuben Foster went even later at #31 overall due to a shoulder injury that required reconstructive surgery with rumors he may need another surgery. Yeah, a team with our luck in round 1 should just blow these injuries off. That'll go over like a fart in church...

 

Even an Andy Katzenmoyer drafted by Belichick can have a very short career if he has a certain injury that will not be able to withstand NFL physics. Beginning NFL careers with neck or shoulder injuries can have a bigger say in career length than talent. I still remember us taking Christian Kirksey (#71 overall) ahead of Wisconsin's Chris Borland (#77 overall). While Borland might have jetted off to a better start - his volume of concussions that began before SF cut his career real short. You HAVE to look at the medical (and wear and tear) of prospects coming out today.

[TopDawg31]

he's on the clock now, 7 days to sign or feel the wrath of buckeye fans in NE Ohio.

[Mudfly]

Until Peppers actually misses camp or a game, I guess he isnt hurting anything(except maybe his image/likability).....once he starts missing stuff, then it hurts him and the team......

 

Personally, I'd prefer that he just did what 98% of draftees have already done.....just sign for the pre-determined amount and start earning that 4 year deal they all work toward.....

 

I was hard on Bosa too(thought he was/is a prick)....but, in his defense, he did prove his worth once he signed and started playing....lets hope Peppers can do the same.....

 

Until then.....to me.....he has 3 negative strikes:

1) already at stage one in the league drug program

2) last to sign a participation agreement

3) last to sign a contract....

 

Dont like any of it.....and now, you can add this weeks twitter comment laughing about our speculation on his contract, while he doesnt comment or offer an explanation.....(mocking the fans?).....way to win us over Gerbs.....

 

Now we're in the middle on July and it doesn't look like there's any progress being made. Of course, he could sign it today for all we know, but we'll see. It wouldn't surprise me AT ALL to see this go into August.

Me either.....he's raising his own bar daily.....better be good.....damn good(in fact)

 

 

Well, last year there were people posting the Chargers were the ones penny pinching - Not Bosa and agent. In fairness, they posted articles to back their pov.

 

Our situation is a little different due to the fact we have 3 different 1st round picks we have to bottleneck into 1 rookie salary cap.

Lots of us were all over Bosa and his dickish ways....before AND after the hold out.....OSU be damned....

 

Sorry, but not understanding the bottleneck comment.....the money is there and the fact that we drafted 3 in the first has no effect on that what so ever.....

 

he's on the clock now.....

So is your boy Trubs....Ill wait for your wrath on that one....(though, Ill guess he signs before Peppers does)

 

 

So far......253 were drafted......245 have signed......So, the last 8 must be very very special.....

[TopDawg31]

 

 

So is your boy Trubs....Ill wait for your wrath on that one....(though, Ill guess he signs before Peppers does)

 

 

So far......253 were drafted......245 have signed......So, the last 8 must be very very special.....

Not a Brown, don't really care anymore. We will all care though when he's leading his team to the playoffs, and Garrett is just another D lineman. I hope I'm wrong on Garrett but I don't think his stats will warrant passing on a franchise QB.

[Mudfly]

Not a Brown, don't really care anymore. We will all care though when he's leading his team to the playoffs.

Something tells me it'll be you caring if/when he does well....just a hunch.....

[TopDawg31]

Something tells me it'll be you caring if/when he does well....just a hunch.....

I should care, he and my son grew up together in Mentor sports. Just don't care that he's not signed, he will soon. Based on Peppers agent's track record, he won't be.

[Westside Steve]

Of course Trubisky is holding out on the shit eating Chicago Bears. Peckers is holding out against the saintly Cleveland Browns.

WSS

[miktoxic]

if he sucks let's all go to Woody's House with pitchforks and torches!!!

 

AAAAARRRRGGHHH!!!

 

[One Post]

if he sucks let's all go to Woody's House with pitchforks and torches!!!

 

AAAAARRRRGGHHH!!!

 

Lol!!!

[MLD Woody]

Shit I just got the house. It needs to last one season