Ghoolie Goes Black

[nickers]

Thanks for the schedule. I am going to try and get to Ohio to see my Mom. If I do, I would like to pop in to Berea and get a dose of the good old days.

 

Memphis is the weirdest fucking sports town I have ever lived in. It is all Grizzleys and Memphis Tigers, which you would expect. However, when you throw in the dose of SEC mania, and homosexual love for PIE-UHN Manning, and consider that I have to see the fucking Titans plastered all over the place, man, you can see why I have been so nasty. This fucking place is a sports colostomy bag and I am trapped inside of it.

 

 

Well call Me if you get into town.. I'd love to meet you and your better half.

[marcus]

Personally I'm more interested to see Kizer behind the improved offensive line and with a heavier focus on the run. Not to mention if Gregg Williams cooks up a good defense. If Kizer and the run game can put up at least 20 points a game the defense should give us a shot at winning most weeks.

 

Pre-Season should be interesting for the first three games especially to see if a change in diet and workout regimen has really helped Kessler.

 

Oswiler hasn't come close to separating himself from the other two based on what I've heard. This is surprising since he has the most pro experience. I say show me Kessler and show me Kizer and settle on one of the two. Based on physical gifts I'm leaning more towards Kizer.

[Flugel]

Oh goddamn grow a set already.

 

HA! Thatta boy! Sometimes I wonder why people don't look for a new hobby rather than spend every waking moment in here crying like they're getting their teeth pulled without novacaine.

 

Look, nobody has a pistol to your temple. Like the 70s lyrics say "Big boys don't cry." Some of us have been at this since the late 60s/early 70s (some even longer). How tough is it to predict every year that we're not going to win very many games? It's not. If you don't know what you've signed up for by now, you gotta get your head out of the sand. It can't be fun to sit here expecting the light at the end of the tunnel to be the headlamp of an oncoming train every time. You have to see what's changing and give it somewhat of a chance such as getting 3 first round picks and 1 second this year with 2 first round picks and 3 second round picks scheduled for next year on top of the FAs we just added. It's a numbers game so we improve our chances in the crap shoot if we have more early picks. When we get more talent on board the recruiting attraction for FAs changes a ton. Remember how many FAs used to want to play in NE before Parcells & BB got there?

 

The cumulative effect of bad drafting since 1999 leading to HC and regime changes repeatedly - isn't going to reward any brand new regime with an immediate about-face improvement from the 3-13 football they inherited to something that can withstand injury volumes like more talented teams top to bottom. YES, we all adored the very temporary 7-4 start nobody saw coming in 2014 until Farmer pissed off Shanny and injuries had us losing all of our last 5 games prior to going 3-13 the next year.

 

Heated debates among us followed; but going from 7-4 to 3-18 the rest of the way is not progress. And in this day and age, you lose a significant part of the team and veteran buy in when you slip like that (ie; going from 10-6 in 2007 to a 4-12 regression in 2008 = regime change). One key FA vet (Dansby) mentioned he saw Pettine the Dawg's frustration from his ongoing feud with Farmer spilling over to the practice field daily. This is just my theory, but Pett's loyalty to the hometown Coaches his dad once coached as well as the ongoing need to have Pettine SR watch the game films every week had to make some vets wonder/hope their brand new Mickey Mouse Club membership was going to end with the loud ring of an alarm clock. Jimmy O'Neil wasn't ready to be a DC and his next gig ending in 1 year confirmed that. SF ranked 32nd vrs the run, 32nd in total defense and 32nd in points allowed. Everybody liked Pettine in 2014 with enough of a first impression where some refused to let go (blaming only the FO/Owner) while refusing to look at his choice of Assistants (besides Shanny although someone reminded us he had a reputation of not playing well with others). The oline coach's past caught up with him and he was fired. Our defense and defensive backfield in particular, had an extremely high volume of concussions from leading with the crowns of their helmets trying to tackle what they couldn't see; also explaining a lot of the whiffs. We gased our DTs running them on and off the field every other play. Somebody played head games with Crow and invented a fumbling problem that didn't exist for the undrafted RB just to get the RB from Towson State they drafted on the field. At 1 point, Crow averaged over 6 yards a carry for about 4 weeks prior to that crap. Terrence West is already on his 3rd NFL team while Crow averaged 4.8 yards a carry behind our line (and over 6 yards a carry again when both Greco and Bitonio were healthy).

[Canton Mike]

 

HA! Thatta boy! Sometimes I wonder why people don't look for a new hobby rather than spend every waking moment in here crying like they're getting their teeth pulled without novacaine.

 

Look, nobody has a pistol to your temple. Like the 70s lyrics say "Big boys don't cry." Some of us have been at this since the late 60s/early 70s (some even longer). How tough is it to predict every year that we're not going to win very many games? It's not. If you don't know what you've signed up for by now, you gotta get your head out of the sand. It can't be fun to sit here expecting the light at the end of the tunnel to be the headlamp of an oncoming train every time. You have to see what's changing and give it somewhat of a chance such as getting 3 first round picks and 1 second this year with 2 first round picks and 3 second round picks scheduled for next year on top of the FAs we just added. It's a numbers game so we improve our chances in the crap shoot if we have more early picks. When we get more talent on board the recruiting attraction for FAs changes a ton. Remember how many FAs used to want to play in NE before Parcells & BB got there?

 

The cumulative effect of bad drafting since 1999 leading to HC and regime changes repeatedly - isn't going to reward any brand new regime with an immediate about-face improvement from the 3-13 football they inherited to something that can withstand injury volumes like more talented teams top to bottom. YES, we all adored the very temporary 7-4 start nobody saw coming in 2014 until Farmer pissed off Shanny and injuries had us losing all of our last 5 games prior to going 3-13 the next year.

 

Heated debates among us followed; but going from 7-4 to 3-18 the rest of the way is not progress. And in this day and age, you lose a significant part of the team and veteran buy in when you slip like that (ie; going from 10-6 in 2007 to a 4-12 regression in 2008 = regime change). One key FA vet (Dansby) mentioned he saw Pettine the Dawg's frustration from his ongoing feud with Farmer spilling over to the practice field daily. This is just my theory, but Pett's loyalty to the hometown Coaches his dad once coached as well as the ongoing need to have Pettine SR watch the game films every week had to make some vets wonder/hope their brand new Mickey Mouse Club membership was going to end with the loud ring of an alarm clock. Jimmy O'Neil wasn't ready to be a DC and his next gig ending in 1 year confirmed that. SF ranked 32nd vrs the run, 32nd in total defense and 32nd in points allowed. Everybody liked Pettine in 2014 with enough of a first impression where some refused to let go (blaming only the FO/Owner) while refusing to look at his choice of Assistants (besides Shanny although someone reminded us he had a reputation of not playing well with others). The oline coach's past caught up with him and he was fired. Our defense and defensive backfield in particular, had an extremely high volume of concussions from leading with the crowns of their helmets trying to tackle what they couldn't see; also explaining a lot of the whiffs. We gased our DTs running them on and off the field every other play. Somebody played head games with Crow and invented a fumbling problem that didn't exist for the undrafted RB just to get the RB from Towson State they drafted on the field. At 1 point, Crow averaged over 6 yards a carry for about 4 weeks prior to that crap. Terrence West is already on his 3rd NFL team while Crow averaged 4.8 yards a carry behind our line (and over 6 yards a carry again when both Greco and Bitonio were healthy).

 

Tom, that nail you just hit on the head says OUCH! Great post & well said.

 

Mike

[Ghoolie]

 

HA! Thatta boy! Sometimes I wonder why people don't look for a new hobby rather than spend every waking moment in here crying like they're getting their teeth pulled without novacaine.

 

Look, nobody has a pistol to your temple. Like the 70s lyrics say "Big boys don't cry." Some of us have been at this since the late 60s/early 70s (some even longer). How tough is it to predict every year that we're not going to win very many games? It's not. If you don't know what you've signed up for by now, you gotta get your head out of the sand. It can't be fun to sit here expecting the light at the end of the tunnel to be the headlamp of an oncoming train every time. You have to see what's changing and give it somewhat of a chance such as getting 3 first round picks and 1 second this year with 2 first round picks and 3 second round picks scheduled for next year on top of the FAs we just added. It's a numbers game so we improve our chances in the crap shoot if we have more early picks. When we get more talent on board the recruiting attraction for FAs changes a ton. Remember how many FAs used to want to play in NE before Parcells & BB got there?

 

The cumulative effect of bad drafting since 1999 leading to HC and regime changes repeatedly - isn't going to reward any brand new regime with an immediate about-face improvement from the 3-13 football they inherited to something that can withstand injury volumes like more talented teams top to bottom. YES, we all adored the very temporary 7-4 start nobody saw coming in 2014 until Farmer pissed off Shanny and injuries had us losing all of our last 5 games prior to going 3-13 the next year.

 

Heated debates among us followed; but going from 7-4 to 3-18 the rest of the way is not progress. And in this day and age, you lose a significant part of the team and veteran buy in when you slip like that (ie; going from 10-6 in 2007 to a 4-12 regression in 2008 = regime change). One key FA vet (Dansby) mentioned he saw Pettine the Dawg's frustration from his ongoing feud with Farmer spilling over to the practice field daily. This is just my theory, but Pett's loyalty to the hometown Coaches his dad once coached as well as the ongoing need to have Pettine SR watch the game films every week had to make some vets wonder/hope their brand new Mickey Mouse Club membership was going to end with the loud ring of an alarm clock. Jimmy O'Neil wasn't ready to be a DC and his next gig ending in 1 year confirmed that. SF ranked 32nd vrs the run, 32nd in total defense and 32nd in points allowed. Everybody liked Pettine in 2014 with enough of a first impression where some refused to let go (blaming only the FO/Owner) while refusing to look at his choice of Assistants (besides Shanny although someone reminded us he had a reputation of not playing well with others). The oline coach's past caught up with him and he was fired. Our defense and defensive backfield in particular, had an extremely high volume of concussions from leading with the crowns of their helmets trying to tackle what they couldn't see; also explaining a lot of the whiffs. We gased our DTs running them on and off the field every other play. Somebody played head games with Crow and invented a fumbling problem that didn't exist for the undrafted RB just to get the RB from Towson State they drafted on the field. At 1 point, Crow averaged over 6 yards a carry for about 4 weeks prior to that crap. Terrence West is already on his 3rd NFL team while Crow averaged 4.8 yards a carry behind our line (and over 6 yards a carry again when both Greco and Bitonio were healthy).

 

Tom, I put it another way. There is no progress forward looking in the rear view mirror. Screw the sins of the past. Who cares? I don't even give a shit about wins this year, believe it or not. Oh, I want the bastards to kick ass and take names, but I will tell you what would really make me happy. To see see this team making less mistakes, having better time management, an aggressive QB hunting D, an offense that is not afraid to use play action passes and the deeper ball. Some of the younger guys establishing their place on the team woudl be icing on the cake. If this team can bang on those cylinders, then clearly believing that we are finally on the right track is no longer homer bullshit.

[Orion]

There is no progress forward looking in the rear view mirror. Screw the sins of the past. Who cares?

 

This is why regime longevity is important. One LEARNS from the mistakes of the past and doesn't repeat them. But when there's new 'ones' in charge then we're destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. Of course, before you can have longevity you have to have the right people to be sticking with.

[Ghoolie]

 

This is why regime longevity is important. One LEARNS from the mistakes of the past and doesn't repeat them. But when there's new 'ones' in charge then we're destined to repeat the mistakes of the past. Of course, before you can have longevity you have to have the right people to be sticking with.

Not talking about learning from the past, but instead living in the past. Two totally different things.

[Flugel]

 

Yes, therein lies the uphill battle for the rookie.

 

A year ago the coach proclaimed "Trust me" on the Kessler pick. His ego could get in the way.....but he sure shoved it out of the way last season when he pulled him right after half time...and the kid was playing fairly well. - Orion

 

Was he really pulled because he was playing fairly well? Or, was he pulled because he wasn't looking downfield at some open targets? Sometimes rookie QBs, regardless of where they are drafted - don't see the whole field very well especially at the speed of the game they haven't caught up to yet.

 

Troy Aikman was 0-11 as a rookie with at least 2 concussions just from Philly when the game didn't slow down for him yet on a bad team. Jimmy's ego with the first overall pick said "trust me" even if the 0-11 start for Aikman lost a lot of trust from the fanbase at the time. You gotta have balls to takeover a bad team and sign up for growing pains with a young QB in that environment. Hue was 12-4 the year before in Cincy and they went 6-9-1 without Hue the next year. - Flugel

 

Starting TC there WILL be a tentative pecking order. Kessler will 'probably' begin with the 1's and Kizer most probably with the 3's (with Hogan). But in the Browns' QB situation, the guys in front of Kizer are not many rungs of the ladder above him.

 

If he in deed DOES have the talent, and he works & studies hard, he can win the job. - Orion

 

Agreed. - Flugel

[ElkDawg]

Kizer will be out of the NFL as quick as DeMarcus Russell was.

[Ghoolie]

Kizer will be out of the NFL as quick as DeMarcus Russell was.

 

The odds of Kizer being a great QB are indeed not very good. in fact, the odds of any kid drafted into the NFL becoming a great QB are not very good. Most will never make it. Even more will never even make it in pee-pee football, let alone HS, and college, finally ending up on an NFL team.

 

So far, even a naysayer has to admit that Kizer has beaten a hell of a lot of really difficult odds getting to where he is. Now, if I am looking at the kind of kid I want to be QB, I gotta think this one I want to take a chance on.

 

When I hear the criticism of him, none of it has to do with his physical ability, but rather his decision making ability and perhaps things like patience.

One of my heroes, Terry Bradshaw made a shit load of bad decisions early in his career, but he made one hell of a name for himself in the end. So, unlike some of the guys we have had at QB, Kizer is physically impressive. Hurdle one completed, with room over the top to spare.

 

So now we get to the issues that will determine if you are right or wrong.

 

1) Is he smart enough, humble enough and attentive enough to work the immaturity out of his game decisions?

2) Are the Browns smart enough to let this kid have a couple years of fuck ups,oops, and holy shits, so that he can develop the maturity required at the position?

 

My issue with what I call Black Tarkentons, are not about skin color, at least not for me. But, coaches take these kids, see how fast some of them are, and from pee-pee football on, ignore teaching them the orthodox fundamentals, and instead turn them into runners. I really don't know enough about this young man to know how much of that stupid ass white coaching has been ingrained into him.I don't know what his level of discipline is, nor the Browns coaching staff to accentuate the positive, and teach him the ropes game by game.

 

My gut tells me that Deshone Kizer is the best QB prospect we have had in many years. He seems like a damned nice kid, cocky enough to pump his team up, and humble enough to take personal responsibility for giving us something to cheer about again.

 

I disagree with your prediction. I believe Osweiller will likely start, and at some point, Kizer will be given the team to lead. Maybe Osweiller has a great year and Kizer sits. I don't think that will happen because I think the Browns must know by the season's end if this kid has enough chutzpah to be the long term leader. If they don't, then the 1st round pick in 2018 will be very difficult.

 

I bought a Kizer team shirt. First time I have worn another man's name since Sipe. You better just relax and watch. You know, just simple odds are in our favor. But, besides that, I think this kid has a good chance at making something of himself. I for one am going to cheer my ass off for him.

[nickers]

Just looking at Kizers interviews.. he has the personality of a rock.. I just dont see him as a leader of men...

[Ghoolie]

Well here is the thing Nicks......he is the only QB on the Browns team that at least represents an unknown potential. Whether you are right or wrong, we already know that Kessler and Ass-oiler are not taking this team anywhere. This is not a hard decision, and the staff needs to know about him by the next draft. My guess is that after a few games he will be given the team. IF not, ten I agree, he won't be around long.