The Gipper Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 On my survey thread I asked if you all would be willing to trade our #12, 19, and 43rd picks for the #2 pick to take Mariota (or, I guess Winston if he were there). Per Draft Pick Trade Chart value, it would be about an even trade. The #2 is worth 2600 points, and #s 12, 19 and 43 are worth a combined 2545 ponts. A fourth/5th rounder could have to be thrown in to make up the points. But, to me, it is risky on two levels: A. Because giving up those 3-4 picks means you do not have those resources to bolster other areas of need for this team, and B. because historically #2 overall QBs do NOT come out all that well. Here is the list of boom and bust QBs that have been take historically with the #2 overall pick: Booms: Sid Luckman Earl Morrall Norm Snead Roman Gabriel Bert Jones Donovan McNabb ...and maybe RGIII (though if he doesn't improve, he could land on the following list) Busts: John Rauch Adrian Burk Bob Williams Len McHan George Izo Pete Beathard Rick Norton Rick Mirer Ryan Leaf So more #2 overall QBs have sucked eggs than delivered them. Of course, a lot of those were in the "old days" ...but the ones in Italics have been taken since the 1970 merger. right now at best it is a 50/50 proposition. Browns are already batting .000 pretty much with their last 5 first round QB picks (JFF/Weeden/Quinn/Couch/Phipps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 unless you have a andrew luck CERTAINTY about a guy you don't make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'll puke if they trade up for Mariota. He is not a sure bet- just "this year's model". Far better to see if Johnny Rehab is a bust or not- if he follows the Wee-Done curve, next year is the time to go qb shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'll puke if they trade up for Mariota. He is not a sure bet- just "this year's model". Far better to see if Johnny Rehab is a bust or not- if he follows the Wee-Done curve, next year is the time to go qb shopping. I'm with you. I wouldn't trade up for either QB. I'm ok drafting one of the 2nd tier guys later in the draft but i'm not trading up for either guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'll puke if they trade up for Mariota. Perfect!.....wouldn't change a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 12. shelton NT 19. dupree DE 43. williams TE 77. grayson QB my dream draft right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 According to reports they already turned down that trade with the Titans. If the Titans pass on Mariota and we could trade a 1st and 2nd for the Redskuns pick, I'd be all for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 According to reports they already turned down that trade with the Titans. If the Titans pass on Mariota and we could trade a 1st and 2nd for the Redskuns pick, I'd be all for it... Are you saying that the Titan offered to take #12/19/43 for #2....and the Browns rejected it? or is it all BS rumors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 According to reports they already turned down that trade with the Titans. If the Titans pass on Mariota and we could trade a 1st and 2nd for the Redskuns pick, I'd be all for it... And remember exactly how the Redskins got that pick... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 um, yeah, no. don't want to be the next 'redskins'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 And remember exactly how the Redskins got that pick... WSS If I remember correctly they gave up 3 1sts and 1 or 2 2nds... I never said I'd do that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 If I remember correctly they gave up 3 1sts and 1 or 2 2nds... I never said I'd do that... Nope but I think rg3 had a lot more hype than Marcus Mariota the consolation prize in this quarterback Derby. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Are you saying that the Titan offered to take #12/19/43 for #2....and the Browns rejected it? or is it all BS rumors? Reported by Tony Pauline of draftinsider.net on 4/22, "the Titans asked for 12, 19, and the Browns 2nd round pick to move to #2, to which the Browns said 'no'." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Nope but I think rg3 had a lot more hype than Marcus Mariota the consolation prize in this quarterback Derby. WSS RG3 was a one-season overhyped combine champion who got overrated, very quickly. Mariota would've been a 1st round pick if he would've declared last year. He has been one of the highest rated QBs for the past 3 seasons, and has a career 105-14 TD to INT ratio... Consolation...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 unless you have a andrew luck CERTAINTY about a guy you don't make the move. Picks for "certain" QBs are not traded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 "Risky QB" Beside a few drafted number 1 overall, what QB isn't "risky" in a draft? Taking a step back, what player isn't "risky" in a NFL draft. I think Marriota is going to be a star in this league. I can see it. He's got it all. I've labeled him Andrew Luck 2.0. Big, tall, strong, intelligent, fast as hell, good arm, not a "me" player, Film room junkie, a leader, not a socialite idiot and have that 'love' for the game. Got the face and look of a franchise player. What is there NOT to like? Then again, i'm a Brown's fan and guess what...Star QB + Browns franchise just don't mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 "Risky QB" Beside a few drafted number 1 overall, what QB isn't "risky" in a draft? Taking a step back, what player isn't "risky" in a NFL draft. I think Marriota is going to be a star in this league. I can see it. He's got it all. I've labeled him Andrew Luck 2.0. Big, tall, strong, intelligent, fast as hell, good arm, not a "me" player, Film room junkie, a leader, not a socialite idiot and have that 'love' for the game. Got the face and look of a franchise player. What is there NOT to like? Then again, i'm a Brown's fan and guess what...Star QB + Browns franchise just don't mix. I know, they are all risky....but I think in more recent years if you are taken #1 overall.....the QB has less of a chance to be a bust. Here I have divided the QBs taken with the #1 overall pick into 3 categories: Busts, So So or Incomplete, Successes: Busts: Angelo Bertelli Boley Dancewiscz Harry Gilmer Bobby Garrett George Shaw King Hill Randy Duncan Terry Baker Jamarcus Russell Note here that there was not a true pure bust of a QB with #1 between 1962 and 2007. So So/Incomplete: Billy Wade (won title with Bears) Jack Concannon Steve Bartkowski Jeff George Tim Couch David Carr Alex Smith Matt Stafford Sam Bradford Successes: Roman Gabriel Joe Namath Terry Bradshaw Jim Plunkett John Elway Vinny Testaverde (by virtue of total career numbers) Troy Aikman Drew Bledsoe Peyton Manning Michael Vick (has had very productive career) Carson Palmer Eli Manning Cam Newton Andrew Luck (not too premature for these last two) Scouting apparently vastly improved sometime in the mid 60s. Except for Billy Wade...who was OK to good....every #1 overall pick before Roman Gabriel was a complete bust. After Gabriel, only Jamarcus Russell can be called a complete bust. Since then you have about a 2/3rd chance that a #1 overall will turn out successful and about a 95% chance of being somewhat viable.....and maybe a couple of those incompletes can rise up: Bradford/Stafford/even Smith? #2 overalls are still 50/50 to be busts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDog Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 "Scouting apparently vastly improved sometime in the mid 60s." With that said, i'm on board with trading up to grab Marriota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Still think the best place to move up is from 19. Softer Cost maybe and get the best talent opposite of 12 before it comes off the board.. 10 Rookies not making this squad IMO.. PS--If we give up all those picks for Mariota I would piss all of them off and with 2nd pick of the 2015 NFL Draft The Browns Select Leonard Williams to watch everyone run away from this Dude.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I still don't think either Winston or Mariotta are #1 & #2 overall material.. And it looks like my Bucs ARE going to take Winston.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 While interesting, I don't see why past QB's taken at #2 have any influence on future QB's taken at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I still don't think either Winston or Mariotta are #1 & #2 overall material.. And it looks like my Bucs ARE going to take Winston.. Chip Kelley is still on line 1 for you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 12. La'el Collins 19. Malcom Brown 43. Devin Smith 77. Mario Edwards 111 Jeff Heuerman 115. Max Garcia, C 147 Benardrick McKinney, ILB 189 Nate Orchard, OLB 202 Evan Spencer, WR 229 Kyle Brindza, Kicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 i kinda look at this draft this way. we're not picking in the top ten BUT as soon as you walk down that ten pick avenue turn the corner from 12-19th streets, we own the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 12. La'el Collins I'd rather get Shelton here and Collins at 1919. Malcom Brown Although, I think Brown is excellent, and wouldn't gripe. Don't know if he is a 3-4 NT, though.43. Devin Smith A great value pick but who knows how terrific he'll be in a pro offense.77. Mario Edwards The DT? nah. More like a 5th round pick that might not make it in the pros.111 Jeff Heuerman You betcha115. Max Garcia, C I kinda like this this pick. Not my favorite - kinda stump footed for the pros, special teams?147 Benardrick McKinney, ILB McKinney may very well go in the first round, or top of second. Invalid.189 Nate Orchard, OLB Orchard may very well go in the late first round, or top half of second. Invalid.202 Evan Spencer, WR I'd love for Spencer to fall this far, but I think he goes long before this.229 Kyle Brindza, Kicker Brindza is just okay - I really would want the top kicker Manton. Manton is excellent and wouln't need to be coached up so much, and could easily start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Ha...yes, Nate Orchard is not a 6th rounder(solid 2nd)....though Id take him all day everyday if he was........ Mario Edwards is a DE.....Id say 2nd round potential and a very solid pick for the 3rd..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 McKinney's stock has fallen about as far as any in this draft. I don't think he has a shot of going in Rnd 1 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargograw Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 "Risky QB" Beside a few drafted number 1 overall, what QB isn't "risky" in a draft? Taking a step back, what player isn't "risky" in a NFL draft. I think Marriota is going to be a star in this league. I can see it. He's got it all. I've labeled him Andrew Luck 2.0. Big, tall, strong, intelligent, fast as hell, good arm, not a "me" player, Film room junkie, a leader, not a socialite idiot and have that 'love' for the game. Got the face and look of a franchise player. What is there NOT to like? Then again, i'm a Brown's fan and guess what...Star QB + Browns franchise just don't mix. Andrew Luck 2.0. This is getting absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 um, yeah, no. don't want to be the next 'redskins'. Mariota will at least try to be great- instead of doing SubWay commercials. Picks for "certain" QBs are not traded. Exactly.Titans praying for a sucker move on Draft Day. "Risky QB" Beside a few drafted number 1 overall, what QB isn't "risky" in a draft? Taking a step back, what player isn't "risky" in a NFL draft. I think Marriota is going to be a star in this league. I can see it. He's got it all. I've labeled him Andrew Luck 2.0. Big, tall, strong, intelligent, fast as hell, good arm, not a "me" player, Film room junkie, a leader, not a socialite idiot and have that 'love' for the game. Got the face and look of a franchise player. What is there NOT to like? Then again, i'm a Brown's fan and guess what...Star QB + Browns franchise just don't mix. Plenty not to like. A lousy performance against an NFL caliber OSU defense in the title game. A gimmick offense that NFL teams don't use. Accuracy issues. Um- it's risk VS reward. the Titans taking MM @ #2 is way less of a risk that the Browns betting the ranch on a weak hand. If this year was last year- with the Browns sitting at #4 overall- sure, the move up a couple of spots to take MM is way less of a risk- and I'd approve of the move. FYI- most sell the ranch to move up trades turn out very badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsWolfsburg Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I dont want to see a trade for a QB. We dont have a Andrew Luck in the 2015 NFL Draft and I think if we can get Shelton with the #12 and Maybe #19 Humphries or Collins i would be happy. If we Draft a QB i would Pick Grayson in 2nd or 3rd Round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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