Changed my mind on the first pick

[calfoxwc]

Was watching "Path to the Draft" on record....and they were interviewing

Devante Parker, wr. The more I read on him, and watch video, I'm thinking

he should be a Cleveland Brown.

 

Then, they asked him if he had any interviews coming up.

He said, "Just one. The Cleveland Browns".

 

Well, I'm athinkin mebbe, that nobody thinks Parker will make it to 19, so

the 12 pick will be Devante Parker. If he's even there.

 

And at 19, it will be Shelton or Brown.

 

Third round - a versatile offensive lineman.

 

Probably all wrong. Can't wait for this draft - it's going to be wild.

[Mudfly]

they definitely seem to like him and, in addition to having him in for a workout, they also went down to the Louisville pro-day and checked him out there.....

 

so they are doing a double look....tho I think they like a few Louisville players.... thinking Mauldin & Holliman could be in the mix too

 

but I hope you're wrong about them liking him at #12..........

 

There are some who think Perriman will move up past him(Flugel comes to mind... ).......so I hope the Browns are thinking he'll fall and he would be an option at 19.....

[tiamat63]

Was watching "Path to the Draft" on record....and they were interviewing

Devante Parker, wr. The more I read on him, and watch video, I'm thinking

he should be a Cleveland Brown.

 

Then, they asked him if he had any interviews coming up.

He said, "Just one. The Cleveland Browns".

 

Well, I'm athinkin mebbe, that nobody thinks Parker will make it to 19, so

the 12 pick will be Devante Parker. If he's even there.

 

And at 19, it will be Shelton or Brown.

 

Third round - a versatile offensive lineman.

 

Probably all wrong. Can't wait for this draft - it's going to be wild.

 

Shelton nor Brown will make it to #19.

[Osiris]

I believe the Vikings will take Parker to pair him with his old QB Bridgewater, so to get him we'd have to jump the vikings.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

No WR as first pick. We have many more important needs.

[miktoxic]

hell i'd rather see them pick a QB with a trade-up then have them pick a WR with our first.

 

i don't know why the browns can't stay pat and just use the picks they have unless of course someone comes to them with more picks to swap out with the ability to get the player they were targeting all along.

 

last year was supposed to be the 'year of the WR'. "you're never going to see a better crop of WRs" blah blah blah and know everyone is so enamored with WRs again this year.

 

i guess the WR pool of talent will be all dried up after this year as well.

 

does this mean i don't want them to pick a WR, no. it means i don't want them to pick a WR until the 3rd round.

[Comeonman]

hell i'd rather see them pick a QB with a trade-up then have them pick a WR with our first.

 

i don't know why the browns can't stay pat and just use the picks they have unless of course someone comes to them with more picks to swap out with the ability to get the player they were targeting all along.

 

last year was supposed to be the 'year of the WR'. "you're never going to see a better crop of WRs" blah blah blah and know everyone is so enamored with WRs again this year.

 

i guess the WR pool of talent will be all dried up after this year as well.

 

does this mean i don't want them to pick a WR, no. it means i don't want them to pick a WR until the 3rd round.

I would be ok with a second if they go DL OL with first two

[Comeonman]

Was watching "Path to the Draft" on record....and they were interviewing

Devante Parker, wr. The more I read on him, and watch video, I'm thinking

he should be a Cleveland Brown.

 

Then, they asked him if he had any interviews coming up.

He said, "Just one. The Cleveland Browns".

 

Well, I'm athinkin mebbe, that nobody thinks Parker will make it to 19, so

the 12 pick will be Devante Parker. If he's even there.

 

And at 19, it will be Shelton or Brown.

 

Third round - a versatile offensive lineman.

 

Probably all wrong. Can't wait for this draft - it's going to be wild.

What about your second rounder?

[miktoxic]

I would be ok with a second if they go DL OL with first two

 

if they stayed pat they could get DL, OLB or OL and QB one, two three without moving up or down.

 

you add a receiver in the 3rd and the rest is gravy.

[calfoxwc]

What about your second rounder? Comeon

**********************************************

Ah, a LB in the second. Or something. I thought that the three guys I

thought would be there in the fourth round in my stupid mock would be great

value picks at wr. But...maybe a wr in the first, and a wr in the 4th or 5th.

My hunch is, btw, that Shelton is probably gone, and maybe Brown is also gone by the 19 pick.

I just -want- them to be, if that's how the 12 pick went at wr.

Who knows. This draft is going to be amazing. Freakin amazing.

I don't what lb. Early on, I wanted Dupree in the second, but that ain't happenin now.

It's confusing, and amazing this draft. If anybody else is going to the draft party, let me know.

[cambridgeho]

I am liking a Shane Ray pick now with 12 and Arik Armstead at 19

[TexasAg1969]

This is another deep draft at WR. Stick to the D plan for the first two picks. If a real speed rusher is there go for him because Goldman is just as good a pick at 19 as Brown. One of the two will still be there. I like Dupree and think there is an even chance he is still there @12.

 

A 6'4" 270 lb guy that ran a 4.56 40 at the combine.

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1877307/alvin-dupree

[Flugel]

they definitely seem to like him and, in addition to having him in for a workout, they also went down to the Louisville pro-day and checked him out there.....

 

so they are doing a double look....tho I think they like a few Louisville players.... thinking Mauldin & Holliman could be in the mix too

 

but I hope you're wrong about them liking him at #12..........

 

There are some who think Perriman will move up past him(Flugel comes to mind... ).......so I hope the Browns are thinking he'll fall and he would be an option at 19.....

 

I see Parker getting drafted first between the 2 guys. If we go by where Perriman and Parker are at today development-wise, Parker can get more receptions, TDs, yards per game, etc. He's ahead and projected higher by a ton of people. It's an impressive body of work.

 

Having said all that, we already signed 2 FA WRs we're expecting to give us possession WR numbers with. We don't have the 20.9 yards per catch gear that Perriman had as a junior (and 20.8 yards as a soph). Therefore, I could see Perriman in a very comfortable role of drawing Safety attention over the top to ease underneath/matchups for our other WRs. This is why I have been willing to swim against the currents of popular opinion with "I'm not sold Parker offers us the better upside." It's the role Mike Wallace aced in Pittsburgh. Even though Wallace was a massive disappointment with the deep hookups in Miami - his speed made Brian Hartline a huge beneficiary in 2013. We don't have the guy for that role yet. Only in this scenario - the rookie with the Mike Wallace role/gears makes less cake than Brian Hartline/Dwayne Bowe (even if it's a WR at #19 overall).

 

The entire time I have been hoping we'd draft Shelton. If we got Shelton at 12 and added Perriman at #19 - I guarantee we'd get an A from Mayock, Kiper, Cosell and McShay. These guys have access to more film than any of us so I LIKE the way they're willing to see this kid differently than our message board wants to. Beside, it isn't like we can't get right back to addressing our front 7 and other needs in our last 8 picks.

 

If Shelton goes before #12 as many expect and we ended up drafting Parker there - I wouldn't mind that at all. I'm a guy that wants my favorite team to have WRs that can score TDs. It's also important to remember we will still have 9 picks left to address the front 7 and other needs.

[Flugel]

Was watching "Path to the Draft" on record....and they were interviewing

Devante Parker, wr. The more I read on him, and watch video, I'm thinking

he should be a Cleveland Brown.

 

Then, they asked him if he had any interviews coming up.

He said, "Just one. The Cleveland Browns".

 

Well, I'm athinkin mebbe, that nobody thinks Parker will make it to 19, so

the 12 pick will be Devante Parker. If he's even there.

 

And at 19, it will be Shelton or Brown.

 

Third round - a versatile offensive lineman.

 

Probably all wrong. Can't wait for this draft - it's going to be wild.

 

We could do a lot worse than Parker at #12. Thanks for sharing that Cal.

 

Why does Phil Taylor keep getting a free pass in all these discussions? If he ever showed up in shape or stayed healthy - we prolly wouldn't have to be worrying about a DT at #12 (even if Shelton is off the board). We already erased the idea of drafting a WR like Julio Jones for a DT that was supposed to play like a first round DT. If that worked, we wouldn't be in this predicament.

[tiamat63]

 

It's the role Mike Wallace aced in Pittsburgh. Even though Wallace was a massive disappointment with the deep hookups in Miami - his speed made Brian Hartline a huge beneficiary in 2013. We don't have the guy for that role yet. Only in this scenario - the rookie with the Mike Wallace role/gears makes less cake than Brian Hartline/Dwayne Bowe (even if it's a WR at #19 overall).

 

The entire time I have been hoping we'd draft Shelton. If we got Shelton at 12 and added Perriman at #19 - I guarantee we'd get an A from Mayock, Kiper, Cosell and McShay. These guys have access to more film than any of us so I LIKE the way they're willing to see this kid differently than our message board wants to. Beside, it isn't like we can't get right back to addressing our front 7 and other needs in our last 8 picks.

 

If Shelton goes before #12 as many expect and we ended up drafting Parker there - I wouldn't mind that at all. I'm a guy that wants my favorite team to have WRs that can score TDs. It's also important to remember we will still have 9 picks left to address the front 7 and other needs.

 

Addressing your points in order.

 

1) If Perrimen is like Wallace, skill set wise... then hell no. Notice how Wallace wasn't anywhere near as effective without a QB who was able to buy massive time in the pocket. More specifically, the Steelers knew he was a vertical threat only and chose to let him walk. Remember me bringing up the whole "sending 'x' man deep everytime he's on the field only hinders your offense"...? Same situation. Also, you used the 2013 year for Hartline as your supporting argument that he opens up the field. Brian also had a 1000+ yard 2012 before Mike arrived in Miami. However, Wallace's speed wasn't enough to really help this past season either. Even when the Phins were pressing the issue to get Wallace as their #1 open downfield. Thus the rest of the offense suffered save for Landry. So you have 1 season of being productive without Wallace, 1 season not being productive with Wallace.

 

2) As for Kiper and McShay. They're media personalities, nothing more. These are the same two Clowns that had Jimmy Clausen dead set as the #1 overall prospect when he came out. For all that access to tape they have, they seem to lack the scouting ability others not being paid at all seem to have. Mayock I'll give a pass on, he isn't terrible. Cosell will have my ear when he talks.

 

To recap, if you're attempting to sell us on Perrimen; I'd recommend coming up with a better player as comparison.

[TexasAg1969]

Interesting article on why the Browns no longer in need of a NT. Is this a smoke screen?

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2414653-why-the-cleveland-browns-no-longer-need-a-nose-tackle-in-the-2015-nfl-draft

[Alkid3]

I agree

[Clevfan4life]

 

Shelton nor Brown will make it to #19.

 

won't even make it to 12

[miktoxic]

 

won't even make it to 12

brown will.

[stillmotion]

This kid seems like a winner to me.

 

If he's available take Shelton at 12, and Parker at 19.

[Edwardejw]

This is shaping up to be another mediocre year. Reading the news about how FO feels about Manziel. His trade value isn't shit right now, we are stuck with McClown who is a 3rd rate has-been at best - You think Mariota is in the works? Won't last. Trade for Bradford - injury prone moron. Why don't we pry Dilfer out of the broadcast booth. Yeah let's improve the D. The D scores 2 TD's against the Colts and we still lost. We need a D all right. Watch the losses pile up.

[wargograw]

This is shaping up to be another mediocre year. Reading the news about how FO feels about Manziel. His trade value isn't shit right now, we are stuck with McClown who is a 3rd rate has-been at best - You think Mariota is in the works? Won't last. Trade for Bradford - injury prone moron. Why don't we pry Dilfer out of the broadcast booth. Yeah let's improve the D. The D scores 2 TD's against the Colts and we still lost. We need a D all right. Watch the losses pile up.

I bet you're fun at parties.

[Flugel]

 

Addressing your points in order.

 

1) If Perrimen is like Wallace, skill set wise... then hell no. Notice how Wallace wasn't anywhere near as effective without a QB who was able to buy massive time in the pocket. More specifically, the Steelers knew he was a vertical threat only and chose to let him walk. Remember me bringing up the whole "sending 'x' man deep everytime he's on the field only hinders your offense"...? Same situation. Also, you used the 2013 year for Hartline as your supporting argument that he opens up the field. Brian also had a 1000+ yard 2012 before Mike arrived in Miami. However, Wallace's speed wasn't enough to really help this past season either. Even when the Phins were pressing the issue to get Wallace as their #1 open downfield. Thus the rest of the offense suffered save for Landry. So you have 1 season of being productive without Wallace, 1 season not being productive with Wallace.

 

2) As for Kiper and McShay. They're media personalities, nothing more. These are the same two Clowns that had Jimmy Clausen dead set as the #1 overall prospect when he came out. For all that access to tape they have, they seem to lack the scouting ability others not being paid at all seem to have. Mayock I'll give a pass on, he isn't terrible. Cosell will have my ear when he talks.

 

To recap, if you're attempting to sell us on Perrimen; I'd recommend coming up with a better player as comparison.

 

I'm not attempting to sell you on Periman at all. In fact, I'm not trying to sell anyone on Perriman. Just explaining MY intrigue; and hope others give him better than casual hearsay. Who did I say was expecting to get drafted first between Perriman and Parker? You never read what I write or you're just too busy figuring out what you want to re-context to your preference most. This is a classic example. Anyway, MY pov on Perriman (and his similarities to Wallace) not to be confused with the one you'd prefer from me is this:

 

1) Speed, getting deep and TD receptions were the goodies that caused Wallace to land a BIGGER contract in Miami. Even though the stats were never the same in Miami, the attention Wallace's resume commanded gave Hartline friendly enough matchups to sport the best numbers of his career in 2013 (college or pro). Didn't we add Hartline? Meanwhile, in a place where Bowe did not have a fear gear opposite him - how many TD receptions did the Chiefs WR Corps come up with in 2014? Zero. I thought I pointed out we're going to be paying the FA WRs here more cake than what we'd pay Perriman (under a rookie salary cap restraint); so that's where he differs from Wallace. We have a MUCH better Offensive Line than Miami had so my guess is we can pass protect better for the 5-7 step drops deeper passes require. You know, kind of like the Steelers had when they could beat us over the top if TJ Ward took 1 false step/forward as Wallace was crossing sides of the field on Haden behind him.

 

2) Kiper and McShay are paid to be NFL Draft Analysts because they watch more film than the majority of fans summarizing mock draft consensii. One was a former QB... That said, the 2 guys I reference the most are Mayock and Cosell; because they watch more film than anyone. Where I appreciate that most, is they also investigate the hearsay to form their own opinions without any preconceived agendas or stereotypes. I posted what Mayock had to say about the hearsay twice now that you didn't want to read or accept. Perriman was never your idea so it's never going to exceed absurd from you I didn't even research Perriman until I heard Cosell take an entire discussion about WR prospects and spend the majority of it praising assets he think projects well for the NFL. I was intrigued enough to check it out LONG before the 40 took place.

 

We GET it. If Shelton is not there at #12 - you think we better have our scouts at every weight watchers class in the country looking for a prospect with more chins than a Chinese phone book. Even if he's Phil Taylor Jr with the endurance where 1 play = 10 minutes of oxygen on the sidelines. You're jumping all over people that want a WR that could bring 3 intangibles our WR Corps was desperately missing in 2014: Speed, Size and TD reception volumes. And which one of these WRs will eat more cap space than our 1st round investment Phil Taylor? Not even the first one off the board in this draft. So the answer is to politely excuse Phil Taylor for all the years he's shown up out of shape and invest in another first round DT (EVEN IF Shelton is already gone like you've typed countless times). I disagree. We've had enough Garrard Warrens around here. It's important to see/understand the difference between a Shelton that never steps off the field and all those that either need to - or have established reputations for taking plays off or sporting reputations for being undisciplined. Any college DT/NT coming to Cleveland to play on the Nose will have a gap integrity where he'll be asked to occupy 2 gaps and push 2 blockers back at all times. No room for the undisciplined. Guys that shoot gaps with olay rip/swim moves rather than playing through the man, aren't always the best at keeping blockers off our ILBers. If you're only looking for impressive stats, you'll miss the part of a scouting report that says undisciplined and gets out of position a lot easier than NFL OCs will miss such a bullseye in the film room. I wonder what happened between O'Neil showing up excited about Taylor in the middle (wondering why he wasn't used more in 2013) and seeing him useless in a 5 technique. Oh yeah, he failed his conditioning tests. Another year this guy's off season work ethic was far from prioritized was showcased by him blowing out a pec in the weight room the first week of April.

 

In the end, a lot of US want Shelton at #12. That includes other fan bases and teams drafting ahead of us though... Great time to talk alternatives at #12 and possibilities at #19. Because of the success at WR in round 1 last year, I expect a run on WRs that would have Parker off the board before #19 (and possibly even before #12). I've seen some nice alternatives to Perriman mentioned after White, Cooper and Parker are anticipated being off the board. Devin Smith made some big plays in big games getting behind secondaries. I LOVE the way he tracks the ball and is able to go up and get it. I wish I saw more 2014 rookie WRs from rounds 3-7 scoring at the same frequencies as the first round WRs. Am I missing all kinds of examples of that from 2014? Trends are based on how current things are...

[calfoxwc]

This is shaping up to be another mediocre year. Reading the news about how FO feels about Manziel. His trade value isn't shit right now, we are stuck with McClown who is a 3rd rate has-been at best - You think Mariota is in the works? Won't last. Trade for Bradford - injury prone moron. Why don't we pry Dilfer out of the broadcast booth. Yeah let's improve the D. The D scores 2 TD's against the Colts and we still lost. We need a D all right. Watch the losses pile up. Edward

*******************************************************************

 

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lifestyle/dont-be-eeyore.html

 

[calfoxwc]

https://youtu.be/2KvNt5NG-GM

[calfoxwc]

[Mudfly]

https://youtu.be/2KvNt5NG-GM

Haaaaaaahahaha.....good ole Glum......

 

 

He's always the guy I picture when the whining starts with........"It'll never work"......"we're doomed"......hahahahaaaaaaaa

[Tour2ma]

Perriman was never your idea so it's never going to exceed absurd from you

Flugs, you post some good shit, but as soon as you go off topic to assign a motive to someone who simply disagrees with you, then I stop reading.

[Flugel]

Flugs, you post some good shit, but as soon as you go off topic to assign a motive to someone who simply disagrees with you, then I stop reading.

 

I like your posts too Tour. However, I'd appreciate it if you let us handle it.

 

The very first time I talked draft in here was in a Kevin White thread. Anticipating White would be gone before we pick - I had a short post suggesting Perriman for round 2. Tia jumped in there quickly and corrected me that he's a 4th round prospect so I thought it was just a simple disagreement (like you put it) and gave him a cut and paste from Mayock. Next thing I know, he had me on trial for hating offensive line and not wanting a strong running game. So I thought I'd remind him of our QB situation heading into 2007 with how much 1st round talent on our perimeter with GREAT size was helpful to our red zone and moving the chains. Then I suddenly needed an education about Steinbach; and why the running game was more the reason we had 29 TD passes in 2007. We were both arguing balance but my side of it factored in we already added Bitonio. Overall, our offensive line has 2 second round picks and 2 first round picks playing extremely well while Greco was playing his best football. Meanwhile, Bowie adds some quality depth and can play at least 3 different oline positions. Doesn't mean I hate offensive line or didn't want to maintain a strong running game. However, were people joining the back page of that discussion going to know that given the way I was getting portrayed? My suggestion only meant I wanted more opportunities for TDs and balance from our passing game and I didn't think round 1 at that time was the end all for getting that. So who was rejecting the simple disagreement in that case?

 

In this thread, Mud brought up Perriman and mentioned where I might want him. Courteous discussion wasn't a problem at all. I actually just wanted it to be one reply about Perriman since there's so many more guys to talk about in this draft. Then, here comes Tia with if you're gonna sell us on Perriman... I didn't find that tone as the warm invitation to simple disagreement that you wanted me to given my history with the guy and how our flow of discussion was going at the time. I found it as the same guy that refused to read it in its context if at all. Only this time I wanted him to experience his own precedent the way I've had to so we could end it far quicker.

[Tour2ma]

I like your posts too Tour. However, I'd appreciate it if you let us handle it.

Fine... I only commented because you did the same thing with me and I know you are as wrong about tia as you were about me.

 

Carry on...