Riffer X Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 My stance on Mack leaving has remained static. It is not only Alex behind this decision but how much we can allocate towards the oline in the coming years. I have never felt Mack is just chomping at the bit to get out of here. He has that intellectual, left coast vibe that people tend to assume will cause him to run at the first opportunity for good coin, most likely over $9 million a year, and probably make him the highest paid center in football -- I don’t necessarily see it that way. I think the guy is bluer collar than what people think and loves Cleveland. He does plenty of traveling in the offseason to appease his many interests, so location is not his biggest deal IMO. Thomas is at $10.2 million signed through 2018. Around $10 million a year Bitonio is at $1.24 million counting bonus monies. Base will be more like $700k. Signed through 2017 at less than $2 million a year including prorated bonuses Greco at $2.85 million that drops substantially after this season to $925k through 2017 Schwartz is at $1.645 million in a contract year. Depending on the season he has (if he even starts) he will probably garner about 3-4 million a year as a FA let’s say Bowie is at $585 thousand, basically vet minimum and I believe signed through 2016 Erving is at $1.74 million counting bonus, with base being more like $435k. Signed through 2018 and plateauing at $3 million with prorated bonuses Looking at this similarly to a basketball team, these guys and Mack constitute most likely our top seven players. There are many options here that can happen, and many include keeping Mack. Depending on Bowie’s performance, we could let Schwartz walk to save cap. Bowie, Bitonio and Erving will all be making dollars that are not a huge hit on the cap for the duration of their rookie contracts, while Bowie is only signed through 2016 I believe, meaning he could cost in the future to resign assuming he lives up to billing. Thomas is signed through 2018 at the $10 million a year area. I wouldn’t dismiss the fact that Erving could be looked at RT also. Assuming Schwartz walks (unless he has a great, career type of year this season), Bowie and Erving are the primary candidates. Reason I say that is Bowie can also start at guard. He did so at LG for Seattle in a playoff game. The versatility of Erving, Bowie and Greco (who can play any inside spot) gives the Browns many options and protects against devastating injury like last season. The staple in all this is Mack. If the Browns can swing the cap monies for both Thomas and Mack at roughly $19 million a year (eventually we will have to pay a franchise QB and Haden is highest paid at over $11 million through 2019), I can envision Mack staying as the top paid center in football over the Miami Pouncey (at least at time of signing). I just don’t see Erving as the end all be all replacement to Mack. Sure, it probably played a large factor in drafting him as insurance, but I also think they just really liked the player. The kid is a helluva athlete. Anyone that can basically play all five line positions and fairly well is a good football player that can help a team for years. I hope this isn’t Mack’s last season in Cleveland; guy has been a true Brown (even the role in Draft Day). He has some pretty tight friendships with Greco, Bitonio, Thomas and Schwartz at this point, and the line camaraderie can also be a major influence on where guys want to play. Link for the highest paid centers http://overthecap.com/position/center/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Good research... overthecap.com is a great resource for all things $$$ related. No doubt that where you spend money on a line is: 1. LT 2. C 3. everywhere else. I think Mack is at that "I want to win rings" stage of his career. Not necessarily this year or next, but soon... injury breeds a sense of urgency. I expect our offer to be competitive, but in the end I think he will go to the competitive bid for his services where he sees the best chance of realizing the ring. And that is not going to hinge upon O-line depth/versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Honestly, I hate money talk......but I realize it is a driving force behind a lot of personnell decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted July 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not a big money talking guy myself Gip, but it is very relevant when it comes to the oline, which is a huge strength of the team going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 We usually have the most Cap Space Available every year, I don't think money should be a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 You should hope it becomes a concern. We don't have high-dollar skill position players... yet... Even a 2nd tier QB alone will run us double what we are paying in total for our QC stable at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 You should hope it becomes a concern. We don't have high-dollar skill position players... yet... Even a 2nd tier QB alone will run us double what we are paying in total for our QC stable at present. Ya, we are doing QB on the cheap, if we get lucky and one of them becomes a playoff qb for a couple years, that is how Seattle was able to load up SB talent, they had QB and other key positions on rookie contracts and they dont splurge on WRs, except that one idiot they got rid of. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 All true, Z, but they did just lay out $8mm when they acquired Graham (rises to $9 next season and $10 the following). As Seattle is finding out nothing lasts forever. They are currently $9mm under the Cap and still have Wilson (only making $1.7mm this year) to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Oh yeah, they're fucked now. But I'll take two years of being one bad call from two rings. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Bingo! Thus my original reply... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Not a big money talking guy myself Gip, but it is very relevant when it comes to the oline, which is a huge strength of the team going forward. Nice thread Riff. The good news with the rookie salary cap is that guys like Bitonio and Erving aren't costing nearly what Schwartz, Mack and Thomas cost right out of college. Greco's early history of only 4 starts in his first 3 years in St Louis before the conditions of his trade kept us from starting him in his first year here - really make him a bang for the buck. All that weight he lost last off season led to the best football of his career. Then we have Seattle's former 7th round Tackle Bowie who doesn't sport a big contract either. All that gives us certain liberties moving forward if we need them. Along the same line (for our dline), Shelton's first contract is significantly less than Phil Taylor's. Meanwhile, Xavier Cooper will be making a fraction of what Des Bryant is getting in his FA contract. John Hughes and Billy Winn make mid-to-late round cake. I'm not sure what Starks will make; but he comes to us at an age where he's not a long term worry. We're looking good in the trenches. I never thought I'd say this but I'm kind of glad Josh Gordon's 2 brain cells aren't on speaking terms. When he came back last year - he destroyed some of the continuity and chemistry the guys stepping up had going here. We were 7-4 before he showed up looking lik ehe didn't know the playbook, his routes or his adjustments. I'm guessing we're very cap healthy today. We have a great leadership tandem of Farmer & Pettine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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