Trade Bait

[gftChris]

Who do you see as potentially surplus, why, and how much would you be looking for in exchange?

 

For example, if you think Glenn Winston is a secret weapon, you might look to get T-West out for a 2 or a 3. Maybe you think there's too many bodies on the DL, so Kitchen gets us a 5th.

[TexasAg1969]

I'd wait to see how training camp goes to see what I had before making any decisions. But then again I'm not privy to everything staff has seen already. It's nice to be in position to make tough choices though.

 

For those close enough for a first hand viewing:

 

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/article-5/Browns-2015-training-camp-features-11-free-public-practices-beginning-July-30/41080b6f-85f0-49ca-bf1f-c43094ca257a

[Tour2ma]

Big Phil is the most intriguing I see.

 

Last year of a sizable contract...

Quality NT...

Potentially behind a rookie in the depth chart...

 

Problem is that he is a good chunk of our D-line depth.

[The Gipper]

Who do you see as potentially surplus, why, and how much would you be looking for in exchange?

 

For example, if you think Glenn Winston is a secret weapon, you might look to get T-West out for a 2 or a 3. Maybe you think there's too many bodies on the DL, so Kitchen gets us a 5th.

Trades of the type you are suggesting are rare in the NFL. That is more of a MLB or NBA thing.

The exception is around draft time....and if a trade goes down it usually involves a draft pick.

Here is a link to the NFL trades made this year....again, almost all draft related.

Not saying it can't happen at this point....it just usually doesn't.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25165330/2015-nfl-trades

[gftChris]

Sure, most likely nothing's going to happen. Just passing the time...

[The Gipper]

Sure, most likely nothing's going to happen. Just passing the time...

Do these kinds of trades happen often/occasionally in the EPL?

[gftChris]

Do these kinds of trades happen often/occasionally in the EPL?

Completely different system.

[The Gipper]

Completely different system.

So, you are saying that player trades between teams are never made?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Trades of the type you are suggesting are rare in the NFL. That is more of a MLB or NBA thing.

The exception is around draft time....and if a trade goes down it usually involves a draft pick.

Here is a link to the NFL trades made this year....again, almost all draft related.

Not saying it can't happen at this point....it just usually doesn't.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25165330/2015-nfl-trades

 

Eh, they're not as rare for later round picks, to be honest.

 

There's not going to be many trades this year because the first NFL team just opened up training camp today. But if you look at last year (June-October) there's probably around 20 or so trades that went down from the beginning of training camp until about Week 5.

 

Here's a small sampling:

• Houston traded TJ Yates for Akeem Dent.
• Baltimore traded the rights to Rolando McClain to Dallas.
• NE traded Ryan Mallett to Houston.
• Tennessee traded Lavar Edwards to Dallas.
• Indianapolis traded Marcus Burley to Seattle.
• NE traded Logan Mankins to Tampa Bay.
• TB traded Mark Barron to St. Louis.
• Seattle traded Percy Harvin to New York.

 

I singled those trades out because they are similar to trades that we could make over the next few months.

 

• Marcus Burley was an undrafted CB who had a solid camp for the Colts and the Seahawks came knocking. This could be similar to any one of our DL or our CB's if they have a solid showing.
• Lavar Edwards was a depth DE for the Titans who played mediocre in his seven games in 2013. Dallas, however, was severely lacking depth and offered a late rounder for Edwards to help fill out their roster. This could happen with Winn or Meder or any one of our questionable-to-make-the-team DL if we hold on to a few of them or if they have a solid camp.
• Percy Harvin was a troubled, talented receiver who had limited playing time in his career and was shipped off because his upside just wasn't worth his downside. That could be a similar trade for Gordon (not in this offseason, mind you).
• Mark Barron was a hugely talented, young, first-round defensive back who stagnated in TB, then got a second chance in a new system in St. Louis. That could be a similar trade for Gilbert if he doesn't perform up to snuff or if Williams, Desir, et al prove to be solid CB's.
• Logan Mankins was a perennial Pro Bowl guard for the Patriots for his entire career, but the Patriots ended up cutting ties with him in order to move on with a younger player at the position. That could be similar to an Alex Mack trade (highly unlikely, though, due to his contract situation).
• TJ Yates was a decently successful college QB with some grit who was destined to be a perennial backup, yet got some playing time due to injury and performed admirably. This could be a similar situation to Shaw, if a team comes calling with the right offer.
• Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.

 

 

Realistically, I could see us dumping a DL for a 5th-7th round pick and an RB for a 5th-7th round pick. If Winston shines, our depth CB's perform well and our stable of DL prove to be capable, we could find ourselves in the position of trading a few solid players and still being able to round out a talented 53.

[gftChris]

So, you are saying that player trades between teams are never made?

There's no draft, so there's not really anything to trade. Players are purchased for money. Occasionally you'll get player + cash deals, and extremely rarely you'll get player for player swaps, though I don't really remember any.

[The Gipper]

There's no draft, so there's not really anything to trade. Players are purchased for money. Occasionally you'll get player + cash deals, and extremely rarely you'll get player for player swaps, though I don't really remember any.

In other words....it is no fun for fans to engage in the kind of speculation we do here about player trades.

It is all free agency: who are we going to buy?

 

While we have an interest in that.....speculating on trades in the big thing here.....expecially in baseball. Some in basketball.....and despite what TCPO related...it is still a very minor issue with the NFL.....except for the draft as noted.

[The Gipper]

 

• Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.

You never know....it could become similar to JFF....(without the HOFer in front of him)

 

 

 

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

 

• Ryan Mallet was a very talented player coming out of college who sat behind a future HOF QB. This is very similar to nobody in Cleveland because we've never had a situation like this before. I just threw it up here for shiggles.

You never know....it could become similar to JFF....(without the HOFer in front of him)

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's kind of what I was going for, although I thought it might get people in a riot over trading an "unknown commodity".

[wargograw]

Get something for one of the corners for sure.

[MLD Woody]

Assuming you can manage all of the egos, why not just keep the depth at this point? Unless you see a major weakness at one position

 

Why not rotate through three HBs? We aren't going to be beating anyone through the air.

[MLD Woody]

In other words....it is no fun for fans to engage in the kind of speculation we do here about player trades.

It is all free agency: who are we going to buy?

 

While we have an interest in that.....speculating on trades in the big thing here.....expecially in baseball. Some in basketball.....and despite what TCPO related...it is still a very minor issue with the NFL.....except for the draft as noted.

You just seem to be reaching for ways to insult soccer now, haha

[calfoxwc]

Soccer deserves to be insulted - the name of it is offensive.

 

Implies domestic violence. Bad, bad, bad.

 

And it's a silly game - a cross between rugby, field hockey, ping pong and tennis.

 

Nah.

[Flugel]

Who do you see as potentially surplus, why, and how much would you be looking for in exchange?

 

For example, if you think Glenn Winston is a secret weapon, you might look to get T-West out for a 2 or a 3. Maybe you think there's too many bodies on the DL, so Kitchen gets us a 5th.

 

To be honest, teams that have as many empty cupboards as full cupboards are more in need of trade bait than we are today.

 

There isn't anything anyone can give up that upgrades what we have unless somebody inexplicably has 2 accurate starting caliber kickers that we can exploit. Kicker is my biggest worry today. While Tom Brady was once very willing to fumble a playoff game away to the Raiders in the snow before somebody pulled a tuck rule outta their ass to save his hyde - that game isn't won without Adam Vinatieri's accurate foot. When NE had to replace him, they prioritized drafting a kicker. On the other hand, Indy could have beaten Pittsburgh in the playoffs if they didn't have what Peyton termed "An Idiot Kicker!"

[Flugel]

Get something for one of the corners for sure.

 

That's risky IMO. Here's why. What happens if Joe Haden twists an ankle right after we trade somebody capable of filling in? The prequisite to that question includes the understanding we lost a 2014 starter at corner to FA while our 1st round corner has been much maligned until his play says otherwise.

 

As much as Tramon Williams can be an upgrade to Skrine - he also has the wear and tear of a 9 year vet at an age guys are prone to losing a step or 2. He's a great stop gap idea; but our problem solve if Gilbert doesn't pan out seems to be Ekpre-Olomu (who will prolly get an injury red-shirted as a rookie in 2015).

[wargograw]

Well isn't that a risk with any trade? Of course guys could get hurt. That's what the depth is for. Gilbert was better than people think last season. We have Gaines, Ifo, and yes the two Williams AND Haden. We can absolutely afford to unload one.

 

Also, as to your second to last post: Deandre Hopkins for Justin Gilbert? That upgrades what we have.

[Mudfly]

Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...

 

And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,

 

If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)

 

The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....

[The Gipper]

You just seem to be reaching for ways to insult soccer now, haha

No....I can find ways to insult soccer that have nothing to do with how player movement is run.

I was asking if the EPL and other leagues conduct trades like the sports here do......and the answer is apparently not.

 

My understanding is that essentially everything is done like the free agent market here in that sport:

No draft, no trades. Essentially everyone is a FA when their contract expires.....or for new players, whoever the highest bidder is for that person's services.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Does the MLS operate more on the European....open market system.....or on the US....draft/trade...system?

[The Gipper]

Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...

 

And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,

 

If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)

 

The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....

Well, the OP asks if there is anyone on this roster that is "Trade Bait".....the answer actually could be:

 

EVERYONE on the roster is trade bait practically......for the right trade.

Would we trade Joe Thomas for Aaron Rodgers.....probably.

Would we trade Vince Mayle for Calvin Johnson.....undoubtedly.

 

So, it all depends on what is being offered.

[gftChris]

No....I can find ways to insult soccer that have nothing to do with how player movement is run.

I was asking if the EPL and other leagues conduct trades like the sports here do......and the answer is apparently not.

 

My understanding is that essentially everything is done like the free agent market here in that sport:

No draft, no trades. Essentially everyone is a FA when their contract expires.....or for new players, whoever the highest bidder is for that person's services.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Does the MLS operate more on the European....open market system.....or on the US....draft/trade...system?

Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.

 

For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.

 

I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).

[The Gipper]

Surprisingly, you are wrong. When I said "buying" players, that doesn't happen exclusively at the end of the contract. Actually, that's usually the exception. Most players are bought, for money. As in, "we'll give you $100m for Messi" - like buying a house or whatever, the negotiations will go from there. Frequently the answer will just be "no." So at any given point, any team could (in theory) sign any player from anywhere. Add in the limitless number of leagues in the world, and the fact that you can sign a player from anywhere, you actually get tons more speculation than you do in football.

 

For example, you could look at four or five positions that need to be upgraded, you can say "we can sell these guys, we'll probably get around $20m for them; we have an initial $40m to spend, so now we have $60m. we can get players x ($5m), y ($15m), z ($22m) and that leaves us $7m to find the final player" - there are so many possible permutations, because there's no salary cap, no transfer cap - by number of players or money - so there's limitless possibilities.

 

I'm not saying that's better - it creates a very uneven playing field for the teams, especially since prize money and tv money isn't distributed evenly and goes to the higher placed clubs, so they cement their status. But at this time of year (off-season) it does give plenty of scope for the dreamers to dream, and the realists to piss all over it, and then for a player to say "actually, I want to leave now" and leaving on the final day of the offseason throwing the season's plans in to disarray (players have a lot more power).

Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?

 

That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?

And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?

And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?

 

But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?

[gftChris]

Well, I assume that player (lets call him Player Preening Pansy) who is under contract with Team X for 5 years.....has to play for Team X for 5 years, no?

 

That is unless, you are saying that Team X can trade Preening Pansy to Team Y for say 25 million dollars. Straight cash deal?

And I assume now that Preening Pansy has to play out his 5 year contract with Team Y, no?

And that Team X can now use the 25 mill to go buy some other player?

 

But, is it never done that Team X would say......we will sell you Preening Pansy for 20 million plus give us player Jumping Jack Flash?

The contract is with the team and does not get traded. THe player has to agree a new deal with the new team - usually for more money, which is why they want to leave.

 

Yes, the team can re-invest the money.

 

It will very rarely happen that you get a player-plus-cash deal. It does happen, though, but it's usually players the buying team doesn't want, so why would the selling team?

[The Gipper]

The contract is with the team and does not get traded. THe player has to agree a new deal with the new team - usually for more money, which is why they want to leave.

 

Yes, the team can re-invest the money.

 

It will very rarely happen that you get a player-plus-cash deal. It does happen, though, but it's usually players the buying team doesn't want, so why would the selling team?

Different teams want different players for different needs. Example....some here say that we should trade one of our excess DL.....well that would likely be to a team that has a need for a DL....while we have a surplus. Many many a team has tried to trade a player they think they can no longer use for something they can....another player or a draft pick. If they have no takers sometimes that player is just cut.

 

I think our system is more interesting. I mean, think about it. We drafted Trent Richardson very high....but we were able to trade him for a first round pick that turned into Johnny Manziel.

Now, even though both those guys may turn into Bust-a-Rhymes.....it is still interesting nevertheless to contemplate them

[The Gipper]

Here is a list that I could come up with of some of the Best and Worst Trades the Browns have made in their history.

 

Best?

A. Browns trade a 3rd and 6th round pick to the Rams for QB Frank Ryan and Tom Wilson. Not sure what Wilson did, but Ryan led the Browns to 1964 title win and 1965 title game loss...plus other playoffs.

B. Browns trade 3rd round pick in 1966 to Giants for Erich Barnes.

C. Browns trade for Joe Dellamellieure. His time here and in Buffalo get him into the Hall of Fame

D. Browns trade for Shaun Rogers for Leigh Bodden. Rogers makes 3 Pro Bowls with Browns

E. Browns trade for a First Round pick for Trent Richardson......getting anything, so much a 1st rounder for him was a coup

 

Worst:

A. Browns trade DE Willie Davis to Packers for D.E. A.D. Williams. Dead is right. Williams played 1 year as a backup. Willie Davis in now in the Hall of Fame

B. Browns trade DT Henry Jordan to Packers for a 5th round pick (which was nobody FB Bob Jarvus). Jordan joined Davis in the Hall of Fame.

C. Browns trade Doug Atkins and QB Ken Corgal for 3rd and 6th round picks to the Bears. Corgal and the two players Browns got with the picks became nobodies....but Atkins is also in the Hall of Fame.

D. Browns traded Bobby Mitchell for the rights to RB Ernie Davis. Bobby Mitchell is now in the Hall of Fame. Davis was dead within a year of the trade.

E. Browns trade Paul Warfield to Dolphins for the right to the 1970 #3 overall pick, which became Mike Phipps. Warfield is in the Hall of Fame....fortunately for us, he came back to play for the Browns at the end of his career.

 

Please feel free to add any good or bad trades the Browns have made.

[Flugel]

Well isn't that a risk with any trade? Of course guys could get hurt. That's what the depth is for. - War

 

Exactly - so why erase depth if we aren't in despair in critical places? - Flugel

 

Gilbert was better than people think last season. - War

 

According to who's criteria? Steven Spielberg's or Stephen King's? Leaders of the team and teammates say otherwise. These are the guys that saw his practice habits and study habits every single day. He had some decent moments; but vets and leaders know that consistency and improvement is a process of getting out of it what you put into it. It has nothing to do with which one of us wins our philosophical debate. - Flugel

 

We have Gaines, Ifo, and yes the two Williams AND Haden. We can absolutely afford to unload one. - War

 

I already typed a lot of this but I'll retype it again a little differently. Ifo was a 1st-2nd round talent drafted in round 7 because he blew out his knee in December prompting a lot of teams to think he will red shirt his rookie season in 2015. I don't see this equating to he's ready for Antonio Brown or AJ Green if Haden has a high ankle sprain this season. Gaines is a 6th round pick so there's no telling how soon he's ready. Tramon Williams is 32 years old so there's wear and tear plus decent chances of a lost step or 2. Hopefully not, but it's hard to pretend his best football is ahead. As much as I adore K'Wuan Williams' bang for the buck talent, he gets dinged up and leaves the field a lot. another important thing to remember about a young #3 corner is the Anthony Henry story. Very reliable 3rd corner and gave us something like 10 INTs in his rookie season. Consequently, Jerry Jones assures himself a couple years later that Henry is ready to be a #1 or #2 corner; and he overpays dearly to see his investment burned every week (sometimes multiple times). These are all reasons I don't want to start trading away guys at such an important position. I've never really understood the saying "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" until I analyze something like this. There's a lot of unknowns (some exciting) that will play themselves out if we don't knee jerk. - Flugel

 

Also, as to your second to last post: Deandre Hopkins for Justin Gilbert? That upgrades what we have. - War

 

I like DeAndre Hopkins. He had 76 receptions for 1210 yards and 6 TDs. However, Andre Johnson is departing so I doubt Bill O'Brien and their GM want this remaining & reliable piece of continuity from the passing game gone especially for a guy who's work ethic and mindset remained in question. Not only that, but Houston's first round pick was a corner Kevin Johnson from Wake Forest plus Kareem Jackson just inked a long term deal. Furthermore, Hartline and Bowe have been/remain capable of putting together seasons like Hopkins had. So is Hopkins urgent enough for us? I don't think he is today. - Flugel

[Flugel]

Yeah, I wouldnt be so fast to trade anyone, unless there's a good "need" player on the other side of that trade...

 

And Id keep all the DB's right now. We have no idea what Gaines and Olomu bring yet.....or Gilbert, ftm......Id wait, especially with Williams on the backside of his career,,,,

 

If Im trading anyone, Id consider DL(+ anyone who could be cut) and maybe a RB......Taylor and D. Bryant are 2 large salaries who may bring us a decent pick or player in exchange.......and, maybe? Terrence West?.....could prolly recoup our 3rd if we feel good about the other guys.....but those are the only ones I can think of....( and maybe Billy Winn?)

 

The rest Id keep.....depth is good and were not in salary trouble, so lets not trade just to trade.....

 

I wish I read this before I replied to War because it would have saved me a lot of typing. Well done Mud!