ramblin Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I agree with you, but I didn't say they should cut bait today. I said I have a feeling that "down the road" we will look back and wish they had cut bait. But, since you brought it up, and I know you are a Manziel backer, the "body of work" isn't just one complete game. As others have posted, he was given ample opportunity from day one in training camp. First, it was Hoyer is a career back-up and shouldn't be playing in front of Johnny. Then when Johnny crapped his pants, it was bringing out all of the bad first game statistics from a very small list of highly successful quarterbacks who had a bad first game. Now it is you just don't give up on a first round pick after one year. Never mind that the Browns were the only team who thought he was a first round pick. So what is the cliché excuse going to be next year if he doesn't play better, if he plays at all? Accept it or not, but the dude completely pissed away his rookie year in a very unprofessional manner. How often has that happened in the history of the NFL with a high profile pick? If he was an UFA, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. He wouldn't have made it through the year without being cut. But because the decision was made to make him a first rounder, there will be a season 2 and/or 3 of a media circus bringing possibly nothing on the field to the team. And now, to help protect Johnny's opportunity to start, we sign somebody happy to be a back-up. Don't want anybody on the roster that might be able to beat him out, do we? We should be signing players who want to start. I heard this somewhere - can't remember where though. "We don't recruit back-ups". I like that mind-set. But let's look at it another way. If we did not draft Johnny this year and everything went exactly the same for Brian Hoyer, would they have let him walk? I don't ask as a Brian Hoyer supporter, I ask as someone who feels the Browns just let the best quarterback on their roster this year and over the past several years (I know, not saying much!), and including McCown, walk. Seems like not the direction that should be taken. Shouldn't we have waited until somebody actually beats out Hoyer before letting him walk? But we do have a first-rounder on the roster so all is good, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I have to again take issue with your one statement about not cutting bait and admitting their mistake on day 1. Nobody in the NFL history, as far as I know, has ever drafted a quarterback in the first round and shit canned him after 1 complete game. That's just a ridiculous statement. Also I too admit I know less about football than most of the guys here but don't forget even our smartest guy knows less than the guy that brings coffee to the guy who brings coffee to the lowest assistant coach in Berea. We really don't know what's going on there at all. We speculate on the speculation. WSS Brett Favre was pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I agree with you, but I didn't say they should cut bait today. I said I have a feeling that "down the road" we will look back and wish they had cut bait. But, since you brought it up, and I know you are a Manziel backer, the "body of work" isn't just one complete game. As others have posted, he was given ample opportunity from day one in training camp. First, it was Hoyer is a career back-up and shouldn't be playing in front of Johnny. Then when Johnny crapped his pants, it was bringing out all of the bad first game statistics from a very small list of highly successful quarterbacks who had a bad first game. Now it is you just don't give up on a first round pick after one year. Never mind that the Browns were the only team who thought he was a first round pick. So what is the cliché excuse going to be next year if he doesn't play better, if he plays at all? Accept it or not, but the dude completely pissed away his rookie year in a very unprofessional manner. How often has that happened in the history of the NFL with a high profile pick? If he was an UFA, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. He wouldn't have made it through the year without being cut. But because the decision was made to make him a first rounder, there will be a season 2 and/or 3 of a media circus bringing possibly nothing on the field to the team. And now, to help protect Johnny's opportunity to start, we sign somebody happy to be a back-up. Don't want anybody on the roster that might be able to beat him out, do we? We should be signing players who want to start. I heard this somewhere - can't remember where though. "We don't recruit back-ups". I like that mind-set. But let's look at it another way. If we did not draft Johnny this year and everything went exactly the same for Brian Hoyer, would they have let him walk? I don't ask as a Brian Hoyer supporter, I ask as someone who feels the Browns just let the best quarterback on their roster this year and over the past several years (I know, not saying much!), and including McCown, walk. Seems like not the direction that should be taken. Shouldn't we have waited until somebody actually beats out Hoyer before letting him walk? But we do have a first-rounder on the roster so all is good, right? I think the error in this is that you're assuming Johnny Manziel is the guy they've hithed their wagon to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Football is a business. Hoyer didn't perform to the satisfaction of the bosses. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblin Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 True - they may have their eye on somebody else. If that is the case though, cut Manziel because the new savior will still have to deal with Manzielmania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblin Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 Did Manziel perform to the satisfaction of his bosses?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns_Fucking_Rule Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 I think the Browns are going to run the ball more this year and that in itself is the biggest reason they were not going to sign Brian to the contract he was asking for. In the end though, I think that it will be hard for Hoyer to find a team that is going to give him a starter position and the money he was wanting. Guess time will tell, but I have a feeling he will end up settling for less than the Browns offered him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 i really doubt there will 'manzielmania' again this year after his fans saw him perform at the NFL level. he'll be lucky if stockton doesn't disband the north central manziel cork sucking club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Did Manziel perform to the satisfaction of his bosses?!? His bosses chose to have him sit on the bench for a season. When Brian Hoyer played himself out of a job you can take the entire list of excuses that Z made for him and apply them to Johnny. And it was Johnny's first start in the NFL. And again none of us know anything about it especially the reports you speak of which changed on a daily basis. It could be they are planning a big move to take Marcus Football or some third rounder. And you are correct 21 teams didn't want to make him their first pick. 30 some teams didn't want to make bilgewater their first pic and 1 team wanted to draft Blake Bortles in the top 5. And for at least 5 years nobody thought Brian Hoyer was worth keeping even as a backup. Your point? But who the fuck knows? The Browns might dump Johnny before the season and you can do Dana Carvey's superior dance. And Tour2ma, almost, yes almost Brett Favre. That would have been a wise decision right? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manzier Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 And Tour2ma, almost, yes almost Brett Favre. That would have been a wise decision right? WSS And Favre was a second round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdl15 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Why do I see the Brown's going after Bradford pretty heavily pretty soon?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Why do I see the Brown's going after Bradford pretty heavily pretty soon?? That would work for me. If he can stay healthy, he would clearly be the best QB we've had in decades. If not...McCown plays and we're drafting a QB next year AGAIN. I'm not giving up on Johnny...but god knows how long this rehab will last and as Josh Hamilton just showed us or anyone who has been through it can say, it's something he's always going to deal with. Is that the guy we want as a future face of the franchise? Someone who will not only be dealing with studying defenses and leading the team but trying to fend off his own demons as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 It's really a shame Hoyer went down with his injury because who knows what the ceiling could have been. I've been admittedly vocal that the guy is a prime back-up level talent, but who knows what might have been without the knee. While it didn't seem to overtly bother him, I think it's very hard for any QB to be back to their prime self after a knee injury like that. In either case I can respect what the guy did for the Browns at least the first half of last season. He made the Browns watchable into December for the first time in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Completely agree, jrb... and I can still see Brian limping off v JAX after he was leveled late in the game after the INT throw off of reaching-behind-himself Tate. While I can't remember a sign of the limp thereafter, it may well have been internalized. ... and 1 team wanted to draft Blake Bortles in the top 5. Are you sure we weren't a second team on this list? (And please note that I avoided your Favre bait...) Why do I see the Brown's going after Bradford pretty heavily pretty soon?? I see a number of scenarios, but Bradford is in none of them. Bradford gets the keys with McCown as our "Sam-breaks-easily" insurance policy and JM sits on the roster? Even should Bradford see 16 starts in 2016 what then? The odds are much longer on him making it through 2016 intact. Just not seeing the end game should Sam actually succeed in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Am I sure Tour? No sir. Not in the least. I'm not sure about one single solitary piece of speculation that flies through the air waves and lands on my radio speaker for the screen of my phone. (And there is probably no point in taking the Brett Favre bait , I think it was pretty apparent. ) WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 also to the Sam Bradford point, I would imagine if he got through 16 games he's OK. On the other hand for those of you who list hesitancy due to fear of reinjuring a knee as one of BHs excuses do you suppose Sam Bradford will share that impediment? WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 also to the Sam Bradford point, I would imagine if he got through 16 games he's OK. On the other hand for those of you who list hesitancy due to fear of reinjuring a knee as one of BHs excuses do you suppose Sam Bradford will share that impediment? WSS I think he will....... In fact, he almost just quit football because of this last injury. And the fact that he spent a year rehabbing, then blew the knee up after only about 30 snaps has got to scare the living crap out of him..... I say Stay away, stay away, stay away Let him go elsewhere to play I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiamat63 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Completely agree, jrb... and I can still see Brian limping off v JAX after he was leveled late in the game after the INT throw off of reaching-behind-himself Tate. While I can't remember a sign of the limp thereafter, it may well have been internalized. Are you sure we weren't a second team on this list? (And please note that I avoided your Favre bait...) I see a number of scenarios, but Bradford is in none of them. Bradford gets the keys with McCown as our "Sam-breaks-easily" insurance policy and JM sits on the roster? Even should Bradford see 16 starts in 2016 what then? The odds are much longer on him making it through 2016 intact. Just not seeing the end game should Sam actually succeed in the short term. A more successful 2015 while Johnny refines his craft for 2016? That's about the best I can figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 It's good to see a number of fans appreciating what he did. Hoyer had the same brutal knee injury RG3 had; and he wasn't nearly the same sissy in the pocket. Zombo bought up a great point - the Browns were 1-15 with alternatives to Hoyer and 10-6 with him IN CLEVELAND. You like magic? That's a lot closer to seeing a football messiah walking on water than the 1st round hotshot getting outplayed by Colt McCoy in Washington. By the way, those alternatives to Hoyer were both former first round QBs just to remind us what a bang for the buck Hoyer was here. I wish we could have given him some targets taller than Tom Thumb outside last year even though Miles Austin delivered as much as he could. Every time we get a promising talent like Edwards or Gordon to 1 Pro Bowl - football quickly took a back seat to partying and lucky us! This is why our front office and scouting department has to dig deeper into the character side on some of these WR prospects moving forward. The importance of the position isn't going to go away when the running game can only take us so far. Indy was doing everything they could to hand us the W. We need to make our QB position easier to play so we don't have to keep hearing how much we miss playing for 50-60 yard FGs from Phil Dawson all the time. Even if that gets you to the playoffs, you're gonna get parked in round 1 like body by Andy Dalton always does. We'll see what McCown can accomplish here. Even though Tampa went over like a fart in church - he outplayed Cutler in Chicago with the same teammates while Cutler's contract is still holding them hostage. My guess is we can protect him better than Tampa while treating him to a better running game. He's got the same athleticism to escape the pocket as Manziel/Shaw with more experience to know when/how to do so at the NFL level. Flugs.., Great to see you back ol'friend... hope the world is being kind to you...And I miss your awesome posts.. good to see ya man... On to Hoyer.. He gave it all he had for this team. And this town... that cant be underscored..... God Bless ya Hoyer.. they jacked you around. then didn't even respect ya in the end...McCown is.. meh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 even looking at bradford would be the worse decision this regime could make. just cuz it's glass doesn't mean you can see yourself in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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