New season: Let's rock this thang!

[One Post]

Ok man I'm getting so pumped for the season already let's get it!!!!

[TexasAg1969]

I'm looking forward to a far more innovative defense and a ball control offense playing takeaway and keepaway respectively. This should be a season to remember as the one we turned it all around when looking back 5 years from now.

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Hopefully we see progress. I still think it will be difficult without playmakers on the team for us to expect a GOOD season. But I'd like the Browns be a lot more difficult to play against. There are so many players who I am excited to watch play this year.

 

At the risk of derailing the positivity of this thread, what would it take for you to want to see Jackson replaced?

[Ghoolie]

Hopefully we see progress. I still think it will be difficult without playmakers on the team for us to expect a GOOD season. But I'd like the Browns be a lot more difficult to play against. There are so many players who I am excited to watch play this year.

 

At the risk of derailing the positivity of this thread, what would it take for you to want to see Jackson replaced?

 

I wanted Jackson replaced after game 2 of preseason last year. He is a dead man walking as we speak. He has so many areas to clean up, I honestly don't see how he can. Discipline, lack of playmakers, no QB, poor clock management and coaching decisions. How does he overcome all that? Honestly? How does a leopard change his spots? He exhibited the same flaws in Oakland. That's why he got shit-canned.

 

I want these guys to win, but looking at this realistically, tell me how can we put two and two together and get 4? Every optimistic thread I read is based on "this guy is gonna step up this year...............the D will step up and be aggressive.......... the O will attack this year.....................this kid is going to play way above his draft position.............I call it, " you can see it in their eyes" optimism.

 

Jackson has a QB controversy before he even starts. Whoever he starts, if the guy doesn't do well and he switches, Haslam is going to view him as an incompetent buffoon. And what if Ass Oiler plays well enough to deliver a 4 - 12 season? That means Kizer will probably sit, and the 2018 draft will be a QB nightmare again.

 

All these 2016 problems that fans believe will change, are just as likely to get worse as they are better. I hope I am wrong. I hope Kizer delivers a wallop. If he doesn't, there is nothing remarkable about this team.

[cambridgeho]

Its a new year. We are young as hell, but we shall see. I read today that they may be having Duke Johnson starting in the slot wr role. I just disagree with lack of playmakers. We have some talent. I think Njoku is gonna have a good year, and think Crow will rip shit up. I dont know, maybe im just tired of hearing about Kyrie wanted traded, that i am lets get this shit going mode. Ghoolie, to me right on regarding Hue, he looked dazed last year. Hope he can get his shit together or gregg williams will be skull fucking him by week 7.

[Orion]

Ok man I'm getting so pumped....

 

That's ok.

Once the team gets walloped in it's first preseason game you'll feel like your old self again.

 

It seems that every year we're, "Hoping to see improvement as the season progresses'.

To say, "I'm looking for a winning record."...well, that would be total craziness.

 

And now, this year, thanks to our latest regime change, we're coming off of the worst season in the long team history.

Not for nothin', but Haslam, Shashi, Depo & co., you own that record. You took a bad team and made them markedly worse. I coulda' got trained monkeys to do that. So, this year, we're gonna need to start seeing some proof that the Harvard Think Tank knows a little something that monkeys don't.

[TexasAg1969]

 

That's ok.

Once the team gets walloped in it's first preseason game you'll feel like your old self again.

 

It seems that every year we're, "Hoping to see improvement as the season progresses'.

To say, "I'm looking for a winning record."...well, that would be total craziness.

 

And now, this year, thanks to our latest regime change, we're coming off of the worst season in the long team history.

Not for nothin', but Haslam, Shashi, Depo & co., you own that record. You took a bad team and made them markedly worse. I coulda' got trained monkeys to do that. So, this year, we're gonna need to start seeing some proof that the Harvard Think Tank knows a little something that monkeys don't.

 

Fortunately we have more talented monkeys this year and a gorilla to run the defensive side of the ball.

 

And a little gerbil shall lead them.

[The Gipper]

 

That's ok.

Once the team gets walloped in it's first preseason game you'll feel like your old self again.

 

It seems that every year we're, "Hoping to see improvement as the season progresses'.

To say, "I'm looking for a winning record."...well, that would be total craziness.

 

And now, this year, thanks to our latest regime change, we're coming off of the worst season in the long team history.

Not for nothin', but Haslam, Shashi, Depo & co., you own that record. You took a bad team and made them markedly worse. I coulda' got trained monkeys to do that. So, this year, we're gonna need to start seeing some proof that the Harvard Think Tank knows a little something that monkeys don't.

And this year I think we will see that that bad team will be markedly better. Obviously the Browns are not there yet, but I think that the Browns are maybe only 4 positions shy of having a very solid team. Those 4 positions with question marks include:

Wide Receiver.....no one proven...is there a star on this roster?

QB.....no one proven...is there a star on this roster?

OLB....need upgrade from Schobert (Orchard?)

DB....need Haden to be healthy, need Taylor to prove it...need young players....like Peppers/Campbell/Nacua/Kindred etc. to start to shine.

 

If these things cannot all come together, right now, over me....then we have 2 first rounders and 3 second rounders in next year's draft. (and hey....we also got an extra 6th rounder from Pee-town for the Justin Gilbert trade......which can't help but be better than Justin Gilbert! Wouldn't it be fresh if with that 6th round pick that we got lucky with a Tom Brady or an Antonio Brown type talent ..both 6th rounders...with a pick stolen from Pukesburg? Saweeet!

[Orion]

.we also got an extra 6th rounder from Pee-town for the Justin Gilbert trade......which can't help but be better than Justin Gilbert! Wouldn't it be fresh if with that 6th round pick that we got lucky with a Tom Brady or an Antonio Brown type talent ..both 6th rounders...with a pick stolen from Pukesburg? Saweeet!

 

Yup. We got a 6th round pick for a guy we drafted #8 overall.

[The Gipper]

 

Yup. We got a 6th round pick for a guy we drafted #8 overall.

Sure....but who wasn't even worth the 6th round pick we did get for him.

Thanks Ray Farmer.

[Tour2ma]

It's been years since I rocked a thong...

[gumby73]

How do I follow this^^..Man, I am so excited to get this "Camp to a Nucleus" started Thursday. At the same time am nervous as hell when the pads break out. As most will remember Hue & Williams love to compete against one another as a unit. Full Blown,Full game Speed. Baby Step please, lets just get to pads healthy. JT's back issues last season & it seems like 25 maybe more had some injury issues last season..Fingers crossed. lets kick this baby off & Lets go Dawg Huntin'

[One Post]

It's been years since I rocked a thong...

Now that was funny.

[Ghoolie]

Its a new year. We are young as hell, but we shall see. I read today that they may be having Duke Johnson starting in the slot wr role. I just disagree with lack of playmakers. We have some talent. I think Njoku is gonna have a good year, and think Crow will rip shit up. I dont know, maybe im just tired of hearing about Kyrie wanted traded, that i am lets get this shit going mode. Ghoolie, to me right on regarding Hue, he looked dazed last year. Hope he can get his shit together or gregg williams will be skull fucking him by week 7.

Nice post. I want to be careful not to fall into my doom and gloom mode, but at the same time I am speaking my feelings.

 

I don't mean to piss on the parade because it is normal for a fan to be optimistic. If we are being realistic though, we have to admit that a lot of our optimism is based on "Great Pumpkin" type beliefs. In other words, our statements that " I think this guy is going to be good" is realy not hard science as to why we will be improved. It is no different for 31 other teams who each have just as much possibility of their unproven talent rising to be great players.

 

My problem with hue Jackson, and I think it is a fatal flaw in him, is his lack of commitment to anything.He loved Horton, he abandoned Horton. He lover RG3, he abandoned RG3. He loved Kessler, he abandoned Kessler. Don't you see this guy's pattern? I am sorry, but if I am a player for the Browns witnessing this behavior, I am already shopping my next team, and I am finding it hard to commit to a HC who very likely is going to change his mind at the first sign of difficulty.

 

Finally, everyone assumes that Greg Williams is literally breathing down Hue's back; that there is a sign in the locker room that says, "HUE IS OUR GUY......BUT IF HE KEEPS FUCKING UP, WILLIAMS IS COMING OFF THE BENCH".

 

Do you not see just how detrimental and non-committal this kind of conversation is? Can you not see that this is exactly the same shit that Hue is doing with QBs? Yeah, on one hand everyone here fights me, saying that Hue is not going to be fired, that he IS Hslams guy............Dude, this is so fucking convoluted. If you guys are so in love and convinced Hue is the guy, why would you even be talking about Williams? FURTHERMORE........if Hue really is THE GUY.........why then is Greg Williams tenure and standing any different than Hortons? If what you guys say about Hue is true, if Hue doesn't like what Williams is doing, he will send him packing just like he did Horton.

 

Look, I am consistent. I know that Hue will be fired. Like it or not, it cannot be argued that inconsistency is a huge, huge flaw in his behavior. This is not going to change. All this bullshit self-smug, fake confidence about having Williams in the wings, is nothing more than head-in-the-sand optimism attempting to hide the truth that Hue Jackson has no fucking clue about what he is doing.

[The Gipper]

It's been years since I rocked a thong...

You mean you actually did once? Fucking hell man....why in hell did you have to give us that mental image? God have mercy on all our souls.

[The Gipper]

Nice post. I want to be careful not to fall into my doom and gloom mode, but at the same time I am speaking my feelings.

 

I don't mean to piss on the parade because it is normal for a fan to be optimistic. If we are being realistic though, we have to admit that a lot of our optimism is based on "Great Pumpkin" type beliefs. In other words, our statements that " I think this guy is going to be good" is realy not hard science as to why we will be improved. It is no different for 31 other teams who each have just as much possibility of their unproven talent rising to be great players.

 

My problem with hue Jackson, and I think it is a fatal flaw in him, is his lack of commitment to anything.He loved Horton, he abandoned Horton. He lover RG3, he abandoned RG3. He loved Kessler, he abandoned Kessler. Don't you see this guy's pattern? I am sorry, but if I am a player for the Browns witnessing this behavior, I am already shopping my next team, and I am finding it hard to commit to a HC who very likely is going to change his mind at the first sign of difficulty.

 

Finally, everyone assumes that Greg Williams is literally breathing down Hue's back; that there is a sign in the locker room that says, "HUE IS OUR GUY......BUT IF HE KEEPS FUCKING UP, WILLIAMS IS COMING OFF THE BENCH".

 

Do you not see just how detrimental and non-committal this kind of conversation is? Can you not see that this is exactly the same shit that Hue is doing with QBs? Yeah, on one hand everyone here fights me, saying that Hue is not going to be fired, that he IS Hslams guy............Dude, this is so fucking convoluted. If you guys are so in love and convinced Hue is the guy, why would you even be talking about Williams? FURTHERMORE........if Hue really is THE GUY.........why then is Greg Williams tenure and standing any different than Hortons? If what you guys say about Hue is true, if Hue doesn't like what Williams is doing, he will send him packing just like he did Horton.

 

Look, I am consistent. I know that Hue will be fired. Like it or not, it cannot be argued that inconsistency is a huge, huge flaw in his behavior. This is not going to change. All this bullshit self-smug, fake confidence about having Williams in the wings, is nothing more than head-in-the-sand optimism attempting to hide the truth that Hue Jackson has no fucking clue about what he is doing.

In the words of Aaron Rodgers: R-E-L-A-X. One year into this rebuild and you are ready to fire everyone. Maybe you should be the new host of The Apprentice. (God knows the guy that used to do it thinks he is still hosting it).

[Tour2ma]

Arnold thinks he's still hosting The Apprentice?

 

Nice post. I want to be careful not to fall into my doom and gloom mode, but at the same time I am speaking my feelings.

 

I don't mean to piss on the parade because it is normal for a fan to be optimistic. If we are being realistic though, we have to admit that a lot of our optimism is based on "Great Pumpkin" type beliefs. In other words, our statements that " I think this guy is going to be good" is realy not hard science as to why we will be improved. It is no different for 31 other teams who each have just as much possibility of their unproven talent rising to be great players.

 

My problem with hue Jackson, and I think it is a fatal flaw in him, is his lack of commitment to anything.He loved Horton, he abandoned Horton. He lover RG3, he abandoned RG3. He loved Kessler, he abandoned Kessler. Don't you see this guy's pattern? I am sorry, but if I am a player for the Browns witnessing this behavior, I am already shopping my next team, and I am finding it hard to commit to a HC who very likely is going to change his mind at the first sign of difficulty.

 

Finally, everyone assumes that Greg Williams is literally breathing down Hue's back; that there is a sign in the locker room that says, "HUE IS OUR GUY......BUT IF HE KEEPS FUCKING UP, WILLIAMS IS COMING OFF THE BENCH".

 

Do you not see just how detrimental and non-committal this kind of conversation is? Can you not see that this is exactly the same shit that Hue is doing with QBs? Yeah, on one hand everyone here fights me, saying that Hue is not going to be fired, that he IS Hslams guy............Dude, this is so fucking convoluted. If you guys are so in love and convinced Hue is the guy, why would you even be talking about Williams? FURTHERMORE........if Hue really is THE GUY.........why then is Greg Williams tenure and standing any different than Hortons? If what you guys say about Hue is true, if Hue doesn't like what Williams is doing, he will send him packing just like he did Horton.

 

Look, I am consistent. I know that Hue will be fired. Like it or not, it cannot be argued that inconsistency is a huge, huge flaw in his behavior. This is not going to change. All this bullshit self-smug, fake confidence about having Williams in the wings, is nothing more than head-in-the-sand optimism attempting to hide the truth that Hue Jackson has no fucking clue about what he is doing.

 

Good post from the new Ghool...

 

Couple different takes that I don't think can be ascribed to any pie-in-the-sky, blind-ass devotion, but opinions may vary...

 

"Science"

You are correct that player projections aren't in the "hard" camp... not even when "hard data" is used in Analytics. But even Analytics only produce probabilities of success... and that's all most are doing here... including you.

 

"Knowing"

You don't truly know about Hue... but in Hue's case your confidence is high in a probable outcome. That's fine... but can we not pretend that projecting that a HC in the NFL "will be fired" is a brave projection? It is the fate of 90+% of HCs.

 

"Hue's Flaw"

Don't see it... Talking up your staff and roster is a universal practice. Reporters ask about so-and-so and you reply with positives at most mildly couched in provisos.

• Williams was a trade up who became available.
• RG3 got hurt... the one thing his Browns' future was contingent upon was staying healthy. It was all that was emphasized thru TC... and he did not stay healthy.
• Kess has not been abandoned. He's in the 2017 QB mix going into TC.

"The Lurker"

For now Williams is in complete control of whether his presence as the potential next HC creates a locker-room division. It's still early yet, but so far I see no sign of it and I do not think we will see him generating any division. Williams is not Buddy Ryan whose contempt for his HC and OC was palpable, and came flying out of the Defense Room on Day 1 of camp. It was clear that Buddy thought he should be the HC and he steam-rolled Pardee on his way to punching Kevin Gilbride.

 

Here's a clip from '93 Oilers: A Football Life. The entire doc is worth a watch, but for purposes of this discussion the clip has the important lesson. It's about 7 minutes well spent.

Spoiler Alert: Gregg Williams, the Oiler ST Coach in '93, was witness to the whole fiasco.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/a-football-life/0ap2000000296392/A-Football-Life-Houston-93-Houston-we-have-a-problem

 

Later on control may slide away from Gregg, but the combination of his experience in '93 and modest fan expectations for this season should suffice to keep it from getting out of hand unless Hue lives down to your billing... another thing I do not see.

[cambridgeho]

Nice post. I want to be careful not to fall into my doom and gloom mode, but at the same time I am speaking my feelings.

 

I don't mean to piss on the parade because it is normal for a fan to be optimistic. If we are being realistic though, we have to admit that a lot of our optimism is based on "Great Pumpkin" type beliefs. In other words, our statements that " I think this guy is going to be good" is realy not hard science as to why we will be improved. It is no different for 31 other teams who each have just as much possibility of their unproven talent rising to be great players.

 

My problem with hue Jackson, and I think it is a fatal flaw in him, is his lack of commitment to anything.He loved Horton, he abandoned Horton. He lover RG3, he abandoned RG3. He loved Kessler, he abandoned Kessler. Don't you see this guy's pattern? I am sorry, but if I am a player for the Browns witnessing this behavior, I am already shopping my next team, and I am finding it hard to commit to a HC who very likely is going to change his mind at the first sign of difficulty.

 

Finally, everyone assumes that Greg Williams is literally breathing down Hue's back; that there is a sign in the locker room that says, "HUE IS OUR GUY......BUT IF HE KEEPS FUCKING UP, WILLIAMS IS COMING OFF THE BENCH".

 

Do you not see just how detrimental and non-committal this kind of conversation is? Can you not see that this is exactly the same shit that Hue is doing with QBs? Yeah, on one hand everyone here fights me, saying that Hue is not going to be fired, that he IS Hslams guy............Dude, this is so fucking convoluted. If you guys are so in love and convinced Hue is the guy, why would you even be talking about Williams? FURTHERMORE........if Hue really is THE GUY.........why then is Greg Williams tenure and standing any different than Hortons? If what you guys say about Hue is true, if Hue doesn't like what Williams is doing, he will send him packing just like he did Horton.

 

Look, I am consistent. I know that Hue will be fired. Like it or not, it cannot be argued that inconsistency is a huge, huge flaw in his behavior. This is not going to change. All this bullshit self-smug, fake confidence about having Williams in the wings, is nothing more than head-in-the-sand optimism attempting to hide the truth that Hue Jackson has no fucking clue about what he is doing.

Agreed. The other thing is that Hue doesnt have control over this team, he asks for what he needs and they say hold up, there may be a better deal on the line. Im giving Hue 3 years to get something done. With the roster and injuries we had last year and the very short period from when the new FO came together to scout to the draft. I think, we win a few of the close ones we lost last year with the added depth we have. Sure there are gonna be some boneheaded plays, but we have dealt with that shit for 30 years. I just want my football back, some stuff to talk about. Also, Ghoolie, add some more of that music you had for St Paddys day, it was good stuff.

[gumby73]

The other thing is that Hue doesnt have control over this team, he asks for what he needs and they say hold up, there may be a better deal on the line. Im giving Hue 3 years to get something done.

Camo, I applaud your 1st thought & hope many here soak that in..But Hue can't stand on the other side of it thinking he would last 3 years? or can he Haslem?

[Tour2ma]

Thank God that Hue is not in control of the roster...

[cambridgeho]

Camo, I applaud your 1st thought & hope many here soak that in..But Hue can't stand on the other side of it thinking he would last 3 years? or can he Haslem?

I think Hue knows he has 3 years to get the ship righted. Meaning the 4th year we should be a projected top 10 team. Sitting atop the North with big ben retired by then.

[Flugel]

 

I wanted Jackson replaced after game 2 of preseason last year. He is a dead man walking as we speak. He has so many areas to clean up, I honestly don't see how he can. Discipline, lack of playmakers, no QB, poor clock management and coaching decisions. How does he overcome all that? Honestly? How does a leopard change his spots? He exhibited the same flaws in Oakland. That's why he got shit-canned.

 

 

I've seen what fans thought of Bill Parcells when he took over a dumpster fire in NY. I've also seen what fans thought of Jimmy Johnson when he went 1-15 as an NFL rookie Head Coach.

 

While I understand/share many of your frustrations, when it comes to where to place all of that requires an understanding of the difference between a Head Coach and a miracle worker. You're always really quick to defend Chuck Noll and Terry Bradshaw; but their beginnings didn't look any different than what you described about last year here. After they got a few incredible drafts behind them, that became a much easier team to coach and QB right? The same held true for the 2 Head Coaches (Parcells & Johnson) I spoke of above.

 

The franchise that hired Hue was 3-18 (in its last 21 games prior to house cleaning). Yes Ghoolie, a lot of those inevitable symptoms you mentioned unfolded in a disappointing 1-15 season during Hue's first year here. That said, when Hue had a lot of talented play makers in Cincy - they went 12-4 his last year there as an OC. How many times in the last 40 years has this franchise won as many as 12 regular season games? After Hue left, Cincy dropped to 6-9-1. That tells me if you give Hue more than pawns to play gridiron chess with - he can look pretty smart in the chess match.

 

Most coaches need talent and that franchise QB you bring up. Let's hope this FO gets him those essentials to winning. Like our sequel here has shown us, if you don't have the right Jimmies and Joes all you're gonna get are X's and Uh-O's. My guess is season #2 will tell us a lot more about where Hue can take us than preseason game #2 of last year. We shall see...