BobPOUND! Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Here is where we stand going into the 2017 draft...The record is 14 picks by Miami in 1997.. Round 1: Our own pick, and Eagle Pick (2) Round 2 Our own Pick and Titan's Pick (2) Round 3 Our own Pick (1) Round 4 Three Compensatory picks (3) Round 5 SAME (3) Round 6 Our own Pick (1) Round 7 Colt's Pick (1) Total 13 Pick 2017 Draft So before any horse trading is done, we are already at 13 draft picks. So let's start horse trading... Likely we are 1st or 2nd pick based on our record. So let's assume 1st pick.. That is worth a lot to a good team that doesn't get to pick until the mid 20's or even last pick of 1st round.. So let's say we trade our first round out for a 30th place team like maybe the patriots.. What is that worth? 30th pick 1st round PLUS their 2nd round and 3rd round? And likely their 1st round pick for 2018 That is another 2 picks for 2017 and a total of 15. The Eagles will like be in the top 15 picks, possible lower... What is a 1st round inside the 15th pick worth? Yet another team picking at the very bottom of the first round.. It won't be worth as much but still likely to net us more picks now and in the future. So we move down to 31st pick and in return we get another 2nd and 3rd this year and maybe a 2nd next year.. That is another 2 picks for 2017 and a total of 17.. Plus this sets us up again for next year with extra picks and 2 first round picks again. Given how our young team is doing this year, this many potentially good players for next year bodes well for us... PLUS we are setup again for 2018 for nearly the same thing. BobPOUND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 We'll be getting compensatory picks also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opal312 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Hope I live that long! At least Cavaliers and Indians have come thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Bobpound-and what good does it do to load up on another group of non-star players just so we can once again stay a side of the road team, i.e. non-playoff? When you have 4 players already in the top 35 or so, you fill up with the great ones if you ever want to change a team into something worth watching with real rewards instead of maybe rewards at a time and date somewhere in the distant future. If you look at the stands for home games, that has to change into a supportive atmosphere for real Browns fans and their team instead of another "home" game for opponents. Baylor got caught in this same loser merry-go-round for almost 3 decades with an antiquated stadium/facilities and the inability to attract star players. It was embarrassing to see the home fans on one side of the field and the opponents taking the rest of the stadium except for the end zone they kept under a tarp because they could not sell out their high school stadium. It stayed that way until Briles showed up with a new way to do everything and a commitment from Baylor to build a modern stadium on the campus instead of across the interstate where the old one was located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 That could also mean record numbers of contracts all expire at once. How is success sustainable through the draft alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Patriots are not dumb enough to trade up to the top of the 1st round from that far back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudfly Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I hope the Browns are smart enough to trade up...... Look, I know Shashi is all about quantity and collecting picks, but lets be honest.....in the last 25 years, the Browns have drafted exactly 4 players after the 2nd round, who have made the pro bowl.....and 3 only made it once....Rob Burnett, Jordan Cameron & Tashaun Gibson.....one made it twice.....Ryan Pontbriand(ls)..... So....not a single one that has been a long time, difference maker , except maybe Burnett......so, there are 4 that were pro bowlers(kind of) and 162 that werent...(do the math)... So...I say the numbers dont lie.....banking on a shit load of middle and late picks is NOT the road to success and hoping for a miracle is not good business......nor is it the way to obtain multiple difference makers(which we need).... Just trade up for quality.....every chance you can.......grab a few difference makers, instead of dreaming about the one great find that "might" happen.... Where's the analytics on these numbers?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob806 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 When you have 4 players already in the top 35 or so, you fill up with the great ones if you ever want to change a team into something worth watching with real rewards instead of maybe rewards at a time and date somewhere in the distant future. Bingo, right there. We need to draft players, difference makers, not trade away picks. If they draft some secondary help, some O line help, they will improve immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 So how many picks will we get for Haden? Some rumors have him going to the Panthers. Also rumors of JT getting traded. I'm sure both would involve just draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPOUND! Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Draft pick winners are based on throwing enough shit against the wall.. You never know who is going to be a good pick for the NFL.. Brady is a perfect example as COULD BE Kessler.. At this point there is no single person coming out of college next year that is a no-brainer in my opinion. So it comes down to doing good due diligence and hope that you hit on those later 1st and 2nd round picks.. With are crap load of later 4th and 5th rounders, that gives us a lot of room to fill the practice squad and maybe find that diamond in the rough.. Combine that with the fact that we are NUMBER ONE in money under the Salary Cap at nearly 48 Million Dollars.. That gives us ammunition to go after play makers that are proven gamers... Anyone who expected this year to be anything but a complete and utter bust, was just being stupid.... To be honest I am extremely happy with the progress our team is making.. We are losing, but losing well if that makes any sense.. Our play calling is better and with the exception of a few games, we were in it to the literal end of the game... But we aren't 1 or 2 players away from putting together a great team or even a good team. We need to hit on more than a few draft picks over the next two seasons.. And the only way that is going to happen is with lots of picks.... The truth is that long term good/great teams build through the draft.. They consistently find those late 1st/2nd round picks that fit their scheme and get lucky in the later round picks. And by luck I mean getting chances... We have a crap load of late round picks coming to us this up coming year, and the only way you get lucky is if you take as many picks as you can get.... For the next two years we are setup to get a LOT of chances at finding those picks that come through.. For the next two years we can get TWO first round picks and possibly 2 or 3 - 2nd round picks. PLUS a lot of money in the bank to go after proven hopefully younger players and maybe a few seasoned vets to show the youngsters the ropes... Even in the face of a 0-6 season that likely won't get much better, I feel the most optimistic about this team since they re-entered the league in 1999.... I feel good enough our coaching staff(but jury is still) out to give them the two more years after this one, to try and set us on a solid path towards being contenders. BobPOUND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Bobpound-and what good does it do to load up on another group of non-star players just so we can once again stay a side of the road team, i.e. non-playoff? When you have 4 players already in the top 35 or so, you fill up with the great ones if you ever want to change a team into something worth watching with real rewards instead of maybe rewards at a time and date somewhere in the distant future. If you look at the stands for home games, that has to change into a supportive atmosphere for real Browns fans and their team instead of another "home" game for opponents. Baylor got caught in this same loser merry-go-round for almost 3 decades with an antiquated stadium/facilities and the inability to attract star players. It was embarrassing to see the home fans on one side of the field and the opponents taking the rest of the stadium except for the end zone they kept under a tarp because they could not sell out their high school stadium. It stayed that way until Briles showed up with a new way to do everything and a commitment from Baylor to build a modern stadium on the campus instead of across the interstate where the old one was located. I have no problem with what we did in the 2016 draft as we had many holes to fill & got a number of contributors, maybe a couple or few MAJOR contributors. This next draft, it appears we will be in a position to go after known PLAYMAKERS early (on either side of the ball) & that's what I want to see. Great point about the atmosphere too. Before we become consistent "winners", most fans will come to see great playermakers.....better the great ones are playing for us rather than our opposition. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 2017 will not be the year to trade for more picks. I'll make one exception. Someone offers us a 2018 first for one of our seconds.You build depth with the 4th and 5th rounders (unless you get lucky). I jokingly said to counter the O P, what good would it do you to have every pick in the 4th round? This team needs some star talent, starting with a stud pass rusher, another CB, and anyone better than.Erving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clevfan4life Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I swear to god if the panthers keep sucking and we somehow manage to win more games than them, and that team gets the #1 pick.....in gonna shit myself clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I swear to god if the panthers keep sucking and we somehow manage to win more games than them, and that team gets the #1 pick.....in gonna shit myself clean They'll have plenty of competition. I was surprised to see they're 1-5. But in the race to #1 (pick) the Browns are the leader in the clubhouse at 0-6. But ahead of Carolina right now are also the 1-5 Jets suck-suck-suck, 49ers, and Bears. Regarding Chicago, Hoyer broke his arm, Cultler is still complaining about a thumb owie, so Matt Barkley is the qb going forward. I'd say it's mighty unlikely the Panthers could fail to win more games than that sorry crew. It does follow the boom- bust cycle the Panthers have followed, and if you ask me, mighty unfair for a team one year removed from the Super Bowl to wind up with a top 15 or even 10 pick. PS as it stands now, that first round pick we got from the Eagles is #19. Lose, suckers, lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Bottom line is you have to have a front office that can draft well in round 1 and continue to draft well late into the draft (inclusive of UFAs). As "well duh" as that sounds - we're Cleveland Browns fans so we don't get any Free Space on our BINGO cards. Back in the 80s and 90s, we were finding Tackles Like Tony T-Bone Jones and Orlando Brown in the land of the undrafted when we also found a good Center in Round 1 like Steve Everitt. When we traded up for Brady Quinn in 2007, we didn't have a first round pick in 2008. In fact, we only drafted 5 players in 2008 (where our selections didn't begin until #104 overall) with Rubin becoming our only keeper. 1 year later, we only had 4 draft picks scheduled for the 2009 draft. Not enough of our 1st round draft picks since 99 made the Pro Bowl to put a lot of trust into round 1 just yet: 1999. Tim Couch 1st overall 2000. Courtney Brown 1st overall 2001. Gerard Warren 3rd overall 2002. William Green 2003. Jeff Faine 2004. Kellen Winslow (Traded up to #6 overall) - (1 Pro Bowl) 2005. Braylon Edwards 3rd overall - (1 Pro Bowl) 2006. Kam Wimbley 2007. Joe Thomas (9 Pro Bowls) 3rd overall & Brady Quinn (traded up to #22) 2008. None. 2009. Alex Mack - (3 Pro Bowls) 2010. Joe Haden - (2 Pro Bowls) 2011. Phil Taylor 2012. Trent Richardson (Traded up to #3 overall) & Brandon Weeden 2013. Bark Mingo 2014. Justin Gilbert (Traded back to #8 overall) & Johnny Manziel (Traded up to #22 overall) 2015. Danny Shelton & Cam Erving 2016. Corey Coleman (Traded back to #15 overall) Out of 21 first round picks, only 5 of them made the Pro Bowl (with only 3 of them making it more than once). Now factor in how many of these guys landed on IR at least once. It took us 3 years to get 1 season out of KWII. If we look at the 6 first round draft picks from 2011-2014, none of them are here or starting for another NFL team today or look to be any time soon. That's quite a confidence changer. The last time we nailed 2 first round draft picks was in 1978 with Ozzie Newsome and Clay Matthews. Coincidentally, we made the playoffs more times in the 80s than any other decade. It also helps when 1st round guys can be as durable as Newsome and Matthews were. Back when we drafted better in mid-late rounds of the draft, we could find a 2 time Pro Bowl type of Tackle like Cody Risien in round 7 (1979). SMU's Rickey Bolden in 1984. We also found a guy that started at 4 different positions on the line (Paul Farren) in round 12. We drafted East Carolina State's Earnest Byner in round 10 (equitable to a UFA like Crow today). BC's Brian Brennan in round 4. Elizabeth City State's Reggie Langhorne in round 7. Safety Thane Gash was also a 7th round pick. Felix Wright was an undrafted Safety who led the NFL in interceptions with 9 in 89. The FAs we got from the USFL like Kevin Mack, Mike Johnson, Frank Minnifield, Ice Cube and Dan Fike were better gravy than you get on Thanksgiving. Even when we weren't doing all that good with the draft back in 1972, we found San Diego State's Brian Sipe in round 13 (who became a League MVP in 1980). It's a good thing considering we traded away HOF WR Paul Warfield to the Miami Dolphins for the right to draft Mike Phipps at #3 overall in 1970. I haven't seen too many examples in our history where trading up in round 1 of the NFL Draft for a QB has worked well for us. Lucky for us, the Supplemental Draft was a lot more generous to Cleveland with the 1st round QB thing as Bernie Kosar would land on our door step in 1985. Sipe and Kosar were fond memories back in BC (Before Cellphones)... The biggest reason I'd rather have a big draft volume is the seemingly high volume of injuries around the league today. My Fantasy Football League feels like it turned into an extended episode of Survivor this year. The best move I made was naming my team Drink Beer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I think we'll be trading up. We have a lot of young guys on this team and a good base. Let's shoot for some "superstars" now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Bottom line is you have to have a front office that can draft well in round 1 and continue to draft well late into the draft (inclusive of UFAs). As "well duh" as that sounds - we're Cleveland Browns fans so we don't get any Free Space on our BINGO cards. Back in the 80s and 90s, we were finding Tackles Like Tony T-Bone Jones and Orlando Brown in the land of the undrafted when we also found a good Center in Round 1 like Steve Everitt. Only one point Tom. The thing that really hurts about the Quinn pick is the first rounder we gave Dallas for that bust would have equaled a chance at 3 studly running backs in 2008 if we had been smart enough to draft them. I'll let you look up who was still on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 I think we'll be trading up. We have a lot of young guys on this team and a good base. Let's shoot for some "superstars" now. When you think about it, we might already be drafting first in every round with a pretty hefty volume. I'm never opposed to drafting a superstar. Having said that, I've seen Courtney Brown and Trent Richardson labelled "can't miss" or "terrific pick" by a lot of draft analysts. The story was never as wonderful as the book cover. Inevitably someone reading this is wondering if I understand Courtney Brown got injured a couple times. Yes, I do and that's the story of our luck with the draft so I'm not going to be one that has been trained and confident to like putting all our marbles into 1 Superstar approaches or decreasing our picks in order to do so. I'm not sure we ever needed to do that for Winslow when we could have just settled for Ben Roethlisberger without losing another draft pick to select him. We have examples of trading up and trading back that ended up backfiring. Why? The people doing our drafting weren't very good at it. When we were closer to full strength this year, we looked like we improved at running the ball and defending the run. Depth looks to be the biggest issue there. The seemingly fine solution to Erving at Center is on IR with Bitonio right now unfortunately. I'm guessing and hoping we're going to go all in on improving our pass defense. We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 So, with all these pix, you would think we can get at least 2 playmakers and a bit of depth. Now if that doesn't happen....can we lynch Hasslam then? He is the only common thread in the last 4 double digit loss seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 I see as this: In the past, when the Browns DID draft terrific players, those terrific players fit the criteria that the Browns coaches/FO's criteria. The failures strongly tend to NOT fit. All too often - the bad mistakes were poor character, didn't really love the game, not football smart, poor work ethic, great physical talent/poor locker room presence... not a team player... pick one of several of the bad qualities, and look at jm, gordon, richardson, gilbert... etc etc etc. The Browns now would NEVER have drafted these players. NOw, the Browns have a complete list of qualities they want their players to have in the draft OR fa. Before, it was more combine performance and college highlights. Anywhere in the top ten, I don't see the Browns trading up in this draft. How dumb would it have been, for an NFL team to trade up to the top of the draft, to get superstar Trent Richardson? Superstar Joey Bosa has 6 tackles and 2 sacks in three games. Cam Johnson, a 7th round pick of the niners, in his third year, in 3 games with the Browns.... has 8 sacks and 2 sacks. It isn't much a matter of drafting high, it's all about drafting the right guys. If the only right guy for you is goingto go higher, using the Browns current-comprehensive-criteria....then you trade up to get him, if it's cost-effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBrown Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 2012. Trent Richardson (Traded up to #3 overall) & Brandon Weeden 2013. Bark Mingo 2014. Justin Gilbert (Traded back to #8 overall) & Johnny Manziel (Traded up to #22 overall) 2015. Danny Shelton & Cam Erving Ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 and can we stop with the tom brady example? that was a fluke, plain and simple. i think FOs have adjusted their scouting and analysis since that fluke to make brady at a 3rd rounder in today's market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus. ...funny stuff! In the draft sweepstakes, the Jets, Chargers & Buc's got a win leaving us with just the Bears, Panthers & 49'ers filling our mirrors at one game back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Well, lets get some depth, and for christ sake, some damn playmakers for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus. LOL, almost spewed my drink on that one.... ...funny stuff! In the draft sweepstakes, the Jets, Chargers & Buc's got a win leaving us with just the Bears, Panthers & 49'ers filling our mirrors at one game back. I predict the Bears and 49ers will be the serious competition. But not if we lose out..... Will the Lions pop the champagne if we win one? Right now the losing streak stands at 10, would be 18 if we hadn't beaten the 49ers. Tampa's 26 in a row would be in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingfooldoug Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Right now I say use the first 5 or 6 picks on QBs. Then use the rest on the O line. Fuck the D, they suck anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 LOL, almost spewed my drink on that one.... I predict the Bears and 49ers will be the serious competition. Imagine that: Chicago and Cleveland playing in the World Series......their football teams fighting it out for the #1 overall draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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