Offensive Roster Bracing for Training Camp Survival

[miktoxic]

thanks chris! i hear ya. just the pre-TC doubts as i peruse this roster.

 

this team needs a leader. a big time star to take this team under his wing and keep everyone in check and have them focus on their job and winning.

 

sorta like a lebron.

[LogicIsForSquares]

thanks chris! i hear ya. just the pre-TC doubts as i peruse this roster.

 

this team needs a leader. a big time star to take this team under his wing and keep everyone in check and have them focus on their job and winning.

 

sorta like a lebron.

If they play out this year and realize they don't have that guy, they have the ammo to move up and get that sort of player in the next draft. This is a multi year rebuild thus why Sashi piled up future picks in this last draft.

 

As Chris said the team was top heavy with elite talent at positions that don't immediately convert into wins.

 

If Hue goes through games getting out coached and players half assing it then I will firmly be in the skeptic camp in a hurry.

[Flugel]

skepticism does not equal bad. so being a skeptical browns fan does not equal a bad browns fan. nor does it make one a troll.

 

skeptical? me? naw. i mean why would a browns fan be skeptical? since the rebirth in '99 with 7 regime changes and only one playoff appearance, hell the fans should just line up and swallow whatever crap they're slingin. guess i have a much more refined palette.

 

there's nothing wrong with loving some of these draft picks. heck i think a couple could contribute big time right out of the gate. but to think cuz we landed more than a dozen players makes for some type of draft hoo haw is crazy. the old excuse 'well, they've got to build the foundation of the team'........ excuse me?

 

OR

 

are you saying that the players from past regimes are not the players the new coach and regime want to play in their system? now that i'll believe a lot faster than all the other players sucked. therein lies this fresh debate. so you're saying that this new regime is better than the past 7?

grab onto your life preserver. or at least know where it's at.

 

oh and VK is right. without the stud/star players, this org. will never turn around. shoulda drafted wentz.

 

browns don't have a kyrie, let alone a kevin love.........or a mosgov for that matter. lol.

 

Nothing wrong with being skeptical after all we've been through over the years Mik. Just like there isn't anything wrong with people wanting to put a game face on for the upcoming season. You made some really good points above.

 

That said, if a skeptic starts calling our fans Fucktards and idiots - it's disrespectful so some people refuse to tolerate it in a place we're all supposed to be sporting the common bond of the Browns. Some skeptics like yourself, are more or less trying to caution people it's better to get pleasantly surprised than to set yourself up for disappointment ahead with history supporting your point. We have a good blend of glass half full and half empty in here that can make for good discussions.

 

IMO, I see people blaming our new FO already for sins of the FOs here in the past - like complaining they didn't draft any play makers. This FO targeted guys that are productive in important areas that need a lot of help - instead of hoping they can teach a Greg Little they drafted way too high how to catch at the professional level. When we have brought talented guys here in the past, they didn't always prioritize football like Potsie Gordon. Just to validate some of the productive play makers they targeted at the college level, some of our new edge rushers scored really well in the Indy assessments measuring explosion. On top of all that, a lot of our 2015 draftees had reputations for great work ethics. This seems way more detailed than some of our previous front offices. Why would this be important? Well, the wrong time to learn Justin Gilbert doesn't like to work hard or tackle people shouldn't be after we drafted him in the top 10. I got the feeling this FO not only went much deeper in research but it had clear cut objectives previously MIA. For example, identifying how important it is to compete at WR and edge rusher followed by giddy up and get after it.

 

Just out of curiosity, why is the guy that led college football in sacks while forcing 6 fumbles way less of a play maker than Bosa is? He didn't wear Ohio State colors? We just drafted the top 2 guys at sacking the QB. The guy who was #2 was the Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year. Bosa's greatness generated 1 suspension, 1 disqualification and 5 sacks plus countless excuses that he was the only edge rusher that ever got chipped by a TE while dealing with an offensive tackle plus dealing with a RB at times. Because he went to Ohio State - this version of Reggie White deserves excuses nobody else does? Our FO didn't just watch Ohio State.

 

When Cleveland traded up to draft the alleged sure thing at RB out of Alabama at #3 overall, every network and analyst praised Cleveland for drafting this play maker at RB we so desperately needed allegedly. All the mock drafts adored the guy before hindsight 20/20. Then again, the mock drafts didn't exactly prioritize guys like: Tom Brady, Russell Wilson, Antonio Brown, Victor Cruz, Julian Edelman to name a few of countless play makers really helping NFL teams today.

 

What do fans know about Wentz that makes Cleveland's FO so dumb for trading back and adding picks instead? For that matter, how do these same critics know our FO wasn't more interested in Goff? Supply and demand doesn't always work like people think it does. For example, if Peyton Manning goes at #1 does this mean Ryan Leaf at #2 is just about as good? If Drew Bledsoe goes at #1 - is Rick Mirer just as good as the very next QB? If so, these critics ought to be ecstatic that the QB (RG3) who went #2 after Luck went #1 is now a Cleveland Brown instead of bellyaching we didn't look to a small school in Fargo for our football messiah at QB. Why is the Mock Draft's forgotten man (Russell Wilson) the only QB of his draft to start in 2 Superbowl appearances if all the answers only reside in the top 2 rated QBs of a draft?

 

The year we DID have the pick of the litter (Tim Couch) - we were choosing between him and Akili Smith while it was Donovan McNabb from the Veer Option Offense at SU that went to the team coming off the worst NFL record in 1998. Guess what QB did best on those bad teams with the top 3 choices? McNabb. 2 of them never made 1 Pro Bowl or started in 1 playoff game. The funny thing was a lot of Cleveland fans were pumped we got our guy while Philly fans booed they didn't get their play maker Ricky Williams. Turns out Philly frequented the playoffs from 2000-2010 with 5 Conference Championship appearances and 1 SB while Ricky took a marijuana sabbatical from football.

 

Shifting gears, what college WR scored more than the 20 TDs Corey Coleman scored in 2015? What part of that slam dunks this guys isn't a play maker at all? Unlike Farmer, this FO looks like they feel the WR position is a very important part of competing in a passing era. You better believe some us are going to feel refreshed about that. They also drafted other productive WRs to help out one of the weakest WR Corps in 2015. They're also not waiting on the 12th of Never for Potsie Gordon to GET it.

 

And if somebody like Scooby Wright was a Defensive Player of the Year in his conference - is that even possible for a guy with absolutely no big play ability? This guy had over 14 sacks that year and forced 6 fumbles. Aren't we begging for this type of make it happen especially when we're in all those close games with 2nd half leads disappearing in 2014?

 

You're right that it may not all unfold immediately. Hind sight 20/20 says Tom Brady might have been the best pick ever especially where he was found. He only dressed for about 1 or 2 games as a rookie before a lacerated kidney of Drew Bledsoe opened the door for a guy not 1 mock draft in this country saw coming...

 

The Cavaliers who never won a Title and frequently experienced post season heart break as well as long term droughts from winning finally celebrated the 12th of Never with over a million fans at the parade and millions more that enjoyed what shook out a couple days earlier. If that doesn't remind change is possible - nothing can. The Browns are a much more storied franchise that once competed in 10 consecutive Pro Football Championships that ignited countless family traditions often intertwining 3 different generations around the franchise with 8 Championships to its name. This hasn't always gone the way I wanted it to obviously, but I have an unconditional game face every week and get excited about every season ahead. I'm not here to pretend I'm Football's Nostradamus - I'm here to shoot the shit with the greatest fans on the planet like yourself about our team.

[calfoxwc]

I think the worry that Hue might get outcoached is like worrying that

Tim Conway may not be funny.

 

The Cavs didn't have near the bench that the warriors had...

 

but the Cavs played smarter and more disciplined.

 

The Browns, this year, will be playing smarter and more disciplined,

with a smarter and more disciplined FO and coaching staff.

 

and like Mr. Flugels mentioned, the Browns went all in to fix that wr problem that

other fo's and coaches ignored. For the first time since '99, I see it coming together

like it hasn't before.

 

I see the map, I see we are on our trail, I'm GOOD !

 

...don't have to get to the end of the trail to know I'm on it, that's all.

[Flugel]

Mik - pretty much both A and B in your either/or. The browns have been top heavy on 'elite' talent in a few (mostly non-skill) positions over the last 3-4 years. Thomas, Mack, Haden, Gipson, Whitner, Cameron/Barnidge have all gone to the pro-bowl in the last 2-3 years. Bitonio and Schwartz have played at a level where they had a chance. But outside of that, we have had no receivers, running backs, d-linemen, or linebackers to speak of, that would even get close to a playoff team's starting line up. So yes, we need to raise the floor of the roster, so that we don't end up with a couple good players that aren't able to win it all by themselves and, inevitably, leave.

 

We also probably wanted some players that fit the new staff's system - Coleman, Ogbah and Nassib spring to mind - and so we got rid of people like Hartline & Starks, guys who maybe had something at some point but are way past that point.

 

So sure, some heavy sense of realism - that this is a 3-13 team that lost a few of its better players in free agency; that even doubling that win total would be a big step forward and yet still result in a double-digit loss season - is absolutely fine. But you can also be optimistic that we're not going to see players unprepared, uncommitted, and out-coached under the new staff, and that with another draft or two we could really be on to something. And that's what being a browns fan is all about, every year

 

Great post Chris! You said all that way better than I did in about 30 paragraphs less dadblast ya!

 

Here's something we shouldn't lose sight of - with 3 playoff teams right in our own division - we finished 7-9 in 2014 regardless of how many injuries all over the roster we worked around throughout it. That included a lot of 2nd half leads we couldn't keep in the absence of play makers on both sides of the ball. And when we did get our alleged play maker back to join our pleasant surprise of 6-4 in progress - he wasn't exactly the difference maker everyone expected after his empty promises. Not caring enough to know the playbook or avoid getting suspended for the final game is a classic reminder of where this guy fits football career into his priorities.

 

I get a feeling based on the types of players this FO went after - we're not going to be held hostage by any more Potsie Gordon pedigrees again. 1 brief period of success in 2013 before his football career went on a milk carton with has anyone seen this Pro Bowl Receiver? I love Ohio State but a guy like Bosa beginning 2015 on suspension followed by just 5 sacks red-flagged me more than his previous seasons of success excited me. I'm glad we traded back to add picks instead while finding players that looked hungrier IMO. When Mayock is calling him Spiccoli at the draft for more than 1 reason - I'm okay with someone else rolling the dice on him.

 

The FO is adding guys that sack the QB, cause turnovers or score TDs from the WR position to a team that lost a lot of close games with 2nd half leads/tie scores in 2014 by about 1 big play. It's a least a nice start while our front office has also added draft volumes to the 2016 and 2017 drafts.