jiggins7919 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Virtually every sports writer that wrote about their observations of Browns OTA's and minicamp said Josh McCown threw the ball better and appeared more comfortable in what Hue Jackson was asking the QB's to accomplish. Being a veteran of about 17 years, it's no surprise that McCown picked up the offense quicker and threw the rock with more consistency, but it begs the question...will he really be given the opportunity to beat out RG III in a fair competition? I know there was some speculation as to whether McCown would even be on the ROSTER several months ago, as our desire to move to a much younger team was made quite obvious. Even productive veterans were asked to leave, and with the drafting of a QB (Kessler), and the signing of RG III, one had to wonder if McCown would be given the chance to compete, and if that was even a good idea. Josh McCown can throw the damn ball, let's get that right. In 17 years he's played for about 50 teams, so it's not like he's a hall of famer, but there's never been a question about his ability to spin it. He's also a likeable teammate, and his career is devoid of any scandal. Depending on who you listen to, RG III didn't exactly blow people away. He most certainly "flashed" at times, but observations from several writers indicated that his accuracy was underwhelming, and his footwork left something to be desired. If the competition is truly "open" and each QB on the roster is given a fair chance to compete, is that even a good thing? If Josh is the better performer and RG III is still given the starting job, the teammates will know, and that's the kind of thing that causes issues within a lockeroom. I don't want to place too much stock in what happens in OTA's and minicamps, as the true measure of a QB will come in training camp and ultimately in the preseason. But one has to wonder if Josh will really be given the chance to compete, or if he will even be on the final roster. Does his presence help our team? What if he wins the job, what does that do to RG III's confidence? I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I have to think Hue Jackson wants RG III to win the job. That seems pretty obvious to me. We haven't invested TOO much in him, but he's definitely getting starting money, and his upside is extremely tantalizing. Whether or not we see any of his former magic, remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 A chance? Yes. But as you said Hue is invested in RG3, so it's more a case of his job to lose. Interesting scenario is if RG3 does lose the job... and clearly does so. Do you cut him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Let's let training camp open up then we can have this discussion. Right now it's fan favorite vs the free agent pick up with out thought to the season having not even started yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 ^+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvcanedy Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 This board is becoming unreadable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 some threads are. Whiney bitchy belligerence, etc etc etc etc etc etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 A chance? Yes. But as you said Hue is invested in RG3, so it's more a case of his job to lose. Interesting scenario is if RG3 does lose the job... and clearly does so. Do you cut him? Of course Hue do. We Want Winners..Some people even choke on a breath of fresh air (hue got it or hue don't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Only in Cleveland will someone pay for an empty gas can and hope that it will get their car to run. You can buy full gas cans in your area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Jesus guys, I don't understand why a thread has to turn into madness. I agree that having this discussion after camp makes sense, but the question of whether McCown will start if he's playing the best is still interesting. Mainly because RG III is pretty much the only offensive "veteran" we signed in free agency, and if he doesn't start, it could potentially be an ugly mark on our new "analytics" approach. I'm not saying there were a TON of veteran QB's out there to sign, there hardly ever are, but there were others that we could've brought in for a look. Mark Sanchez? (I don't like him, but he's an example). Brock Osweiler? Ryan Fitzpatrick? (not sure if he was allowed to sign elsewhere...don't remember). Collin Kaepernick? (don't like him at ALL) And I'm sure I'm missing a few. Again, definitely NOT people that get a fan's blood pumping, but alternate names to RG III. I think what scares me the most about RG III is the recent report that stated we were the only team that wanted to bring him in for a chance to start. Think about that for a moment. The multiple reports that McCown threw better and looked more comfortable shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Maybe at 37 years old, McCown is primed for the best part of his career similar to what Rich Gannon did with the Raiders. It's an extraordinary long shot, but at least there is some precedent. Another poster posed another interesting question...if RG III doesn't perform as desired, do we cut HIM? I don't know what that means to our salary cap, or what he's guaranteed, but it's the first time I thought about RG III not making the final roster. I think he'd REALLY have to shit the sheets, AND either Kessler or another QB on the roster would have to make tremendous strides. I really don't see a scenario where RG III doesn't make the roster, but if his head isn't right, and his confidence is still in shambles, anything is possible. Hue Jackson has barely had a chance to work with RG III, and I'm not about to make assumptions on minicamps or OTA's. I merely wanted to open up a thread for discussion because it's the slow time of the year and I wanted to talk football. I think many people forget that RG III was a very accurate passer, especially for being so young. He throws a tight spiral and has good velocity on the ball. Additionally, he appears to throw well on the run and it's been reported that he's working tirelessly on throwing it out of bounds and getting rid of the ball quickly. If I HAD to guess on how it will turn out, I think it will go something like this: RG III will somewhat struggle during the first 2-3 weeks of training camp, and even into the first or second preseason game. By the time the third and important preseason game shows up, I think we'll have a good idea of how his progression is going. I'm NOT saying we will know how good he'll be, I just believe that we'll have an idea on whether he has the ability to improve in Jackson's offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Agree, jiggins, it's an interesting thread... Not sure I see Analytics' stake in RG's fate. I never had the feeling he was an analytics decision; more that he was Hue's personal choice. My "cut RG3" question was predicated on determining he is not the reclamation project Hue thought he was. Agree he'd have to really be bad, which I think means fail on both the mastery of the offense as well as show little improvement technically. But were that the case, it would make sense to dump him in favor of a young prospect that could be stashed on the PS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joedawg69 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I think Hue Jackson will play the best QB that he has on the roster, no matter what the situation is, and will not put up with the front office intimidation that the others did. If Josh can prove to Hue that he is that guy; then, Josh will be the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Makes no real difference since we all know McCown holds the ball too long and will be injured within 6 games or less. All moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Mccown threw for 457 yards vs the ratbirds last year. Search Results McCown shines as Browns top Ravens in overtime - NFL.com www.nfl.com/.../mccown-shines-as-browns-top-ravens-in-overtime NFL Oct 11, 2015 - Josh McCown became the first Browns quarterback in franchise history to throw for 300-plus yards in three straight weeks. His 457 passing ... Browns QB Josh McCown stuns Ravens, sets team record - NFL.com www.nfl.com/.../browns-qb-josh-mccown-stuns-ravens-sets-team-re... NFL Oct 12, 2015 - McCown completed 36 of 51 passes with two touchdowns and 457 yardspassing in a 33-30 overtime win, becoming the first quarterback in ... Josh McCown throws for franchise-record 457 yards in Browns 33-30 ... www.cleveland.com/.../josh_mccown_cements_a_place... The Plain Dealer Oct 11, 2015 - Josh McCown on the Browns OT win over the Ravens Cleveland ... He completed 36 of 51 attempts for regular-season high 457 yards with two .. Situations are different, but McCown can play. RGIII needs to cut down on the int's he has thrown in his career. We'll see - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Makes no real difference since we all know McCown holds the ball too long and will be injured within 6 games or less. All moot. Can't say i don't disagree BUT..When I was at Baltimore for Josh's gem, Ravens secondary was horrible. Ter ible. Josh gets the tag for holding a ball, but our WR's crew has been far from elite in speed, quick cuts & predictable for years. When ever we played a good coverage team. Josh struggled cause who's open? Hopefully with all the new faces at WR's with Saunders & some unpredictability any of our QB's may have a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 WTF? Dude, the Redskins already ran the analyticals. Black Tarkenton can't play. There is no "wait and see here". We already know that we have no QB.I think RG3 will have a good season. Mark it down man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Not sure I see Analytics' stake in RG's fate. I never had the feeling he was an analytics decision; more that he was Hue's personal choice. Probably so. But analytics might have evaluated the draftable QB's AND the other available veterans as having low ceilings. AND if they didn't like Davis or Shaw...then RG3 does become kind of a default choice. QB play wasn't our problem last year. But it is a looming issue. RG3 was/is a great gamble at a time when we didn't like what was available. Perhaps next year we go all in for a QB (if RG3 & Kessler turn out to be crap). Or Kessler is worth grooming for the future. Or RG3 turns out to be good. RG3 didn't cost us any draft picks. Just some millions, of which we had/have plenty. Us signing him was almost a no brainer. - Again, 'IF' we thought all of the other available QB options were thought to have low ceilings! - Me, I wanted to see us walk away with Paxton Lynch with our 2nd first round pick....even though we've done that same thing in previous drafts. (definition of insanity) McCown. As was posted in an above post (calfoxwc), McCown played QUITE well for us last year. He deserves to be the starter to which RG3 has to de-throne. But since this probably isn't a super bowl year for us...and McCown is old and sooo not the future...if he winds up playing then that means RG3 stinks pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flugel Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 You can buy full gas cans in your area? Tell em Ghoolie! It's more common to steal full cans of gas in Memphis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 - Me, I wanted to see us walk away with Paxton Lynch with our 2nd first round pick....even though we've done that same thing in previous drafts. (definition of insanity) Here at VK Downs the words Pac a ton Lynch will make a old accordion musician lather up in baby oil & do perverted things with his dog. At this point Marriota was your friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 umm...I'm not young and I used to play accordion.....but I do not wish to do perverted things with my Boston Terrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Ok good. Check again with mom if accordion was ever stolen by one of her dates. Good God you may need blood tested. A Lynch fan with a accordion back ground at this point is not good..Good Luck to you & don't move to Memphis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted June 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I agree that McCown tends to hold the ball too long, but what I don't know is if that's his fault, or the fault of the WR's not getting open or the play calling. We didn't exactly have a stellar offensive collection of talent and coaches last season, ya know? People, myself included, like to talk about the "Hue Jackson Effect" on RG III, and how Hue tends to get the most out of the QB's he works with. What I DON'T hear is how that same effect could help McCown. What if Hue can extract better play from the 37 year-old? This is actually the first time I thought about it, and it's an interesting anecdote. We're coming to the end of June now, and it's the "dead period" for NFL football. In another month, it might be time to actually discuss the possibility of a certain star WR applying for reinstatement. I don't want to say his name yet, but if the guy is truly doing what the commissioner wants him to do, there is a small, tiny chance our WR group becomes very interesting. I won't lie, I can't wait to see what the QB's do with the new WR's. The wide receiver position is one of the very few that can make immediate impacts in the NFL. We've seen it happen time after time during the past few years, and since we drafted an entire stable, perhaps we get our own star? I don't put much stock in Kessler at this time. I'm not hating on the guy, but he's a rookie at the most difficult position in sports. I'll wait until after a few weeks of training camp to comment on his rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 I think he'll get a chance. But the staff will be rooting for Grif to beat him out because of age and athleticism. If grif loses out it is time to think about life after football. But I think RG will come on strong in training camp, McCown is injury insurance and Kessler will get an honest look too. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Probably so. But analytics might have evaluated the draftable QB's AND the other available veterans as having low ceilings. AND if they didn't like Davis or Shaw...then RG3 does become kind of a default choice. QB play wasn't our problem last year. But it is a looming issue. RG3 was/is a great gamble at a time when we didn't like what was available. Perhaps next year we go all in for a QB (if RG3 & Kessler turn out to be crap). Or Kessler is worth grooming for the future. Or RG3 turns out to be good. Me, I wanted to see us walk away with Paxton Lynch with our 2nd first round pick....even though we've done that same thing in previous drafts. (definition of insanity) I was a Goff-aholic. Simply because I saw in his play a level of QB mastery that others in the draft still dream of. Had the Rams opted for Wentz, I believe our draft would have looked much different. Titans simple wanted too much for us to trade up one slot. Certainly of all the FA QBs, RG3 was the one with the most upside, but finding the path back to the his rookie self is not assured. Agree that next year may be the year we go all in to draft our QB. Here at VK Downs the words Pac a ton Lynch will make a old accordion musician lather up in baby oil & do perverted things with his dog. lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Had the Rams opted for Wentz, I believe our draft would have looked much different. So you think that Sashi had spoken to the Rams and knew that they were taking Goff. ('cuz we'd already traded out of #2 prior to draft day) It makes sense because we traded out of #2 after the Rams traded up to #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 , or, we waited til Tenn traded, so we had the upper hand on negotiating a trade more? This is how I figured it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Think of it this way here Jackson went out on a limb and purchased some damage property. A nice-looking automobile but with a salvage title. If it breaks down on the way home he looks like a dick so I would imagine he's going to do everything he can to prop up his boy. I'm not really worried about the Fran Tarkenton comparison because I think RG3 probably left that ability in the operating room. And don't forget Jackson's offense doesn't require Tom Brady. So unless RG3 just sucks out loud they will be able to mask his shortcomings with a little bit of Bondo and some trim from Home Depot. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 0-16 or maybe 1-15 if RGIII shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 Why is it ok for a qb to have growing pains and injuries except for RG3? Why is it ok for a qb to have a bad season but not RG3? Why is it ok to sign a vet qb that has been to the playoffs but not RG3? You can thank Jay Gruden for giving up on RG3. We have him now without any excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Post Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 RG 3 is Black Tarkenton. He was raised and trained to be a run-first QB. His entire football life. While he is certainly light-speed compared to me and you, his injuries were DIRECTLY to his most important weapons, which were impotent to begin with, his legs. Losing a step for a guy like Kosar, Marino or Manning is not a big deal. Those guys made their living with their brains and their are. Black Tarkenton never had those skills. He ran around like a chicken with his head cutoff making athletic plays. He got to the pros and his speed didn't scare anyone. Many LBs and DL were just as fast and they ran him down and fucked him up. There is no upside to a black Tarkenton. Just like a young rapper pulled over for a routine traffic ticket, at the first sign of trouble, the dumb bastard is going to take off running, and he WILL again get destroyed physically. Black Tarkenton III has had his day. He will never be as good as he was, again. And even that, was not very good. I understand the analogy you are using but I see RG3 a lot smarter than you give him credit. Like I stated before all the excuses are out the window with him now and it's put up or shut up right now. It's been four years time to put his big boy pants on. A bit off topic..what you say about RG3 fits Kaepernick the most. I think RG3 will be somewhat of a Russel Wilson. However you think you can agree that you hope that you're wrong about RG3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 i too was disappointed that we didn't get our QB at the top of this draft. We were right there...sitting pretty. Then the Rams traded to #1 and I thought, 'well, that increases the odds that we trade out of there on draft day' On draft day I was still holding hope that we might finish the day with Lynch. I wanted our QB issue to go away. I've made peace with the fact that the Geek Squad did not value the top of this draft's QB's. They're entitled to that opinion. But OTHER NFL teams valued Goff, Wentz & Lynch enough to trade up and get them. Their decision will be measured as time goes by. Right now we have Kessler to groom as the future, if RG3 isn't. (and McCown to bridge the gap, I guess) It is what it is. It's what we've got to work with, so now we have to give it time to bake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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