The Solution to Climate Change: Kill Capitalism

[gftChris]

"I would say the freedom to earn and keep your money would be a good starting point. The freedom to not be forced to give 30 40 50 60 70 to the government to do things but you probably don't want done. And that goes for each and everyone of us right or left."

 

There are certain things that are needed for a country to run properly. Roads, schools, military etc. If you pay no taxes, these things do not get funding, and the roads you drive on go to shit. The schools go to shit as well, and children suffer. If you have no military, well then you're a sitting duck to invasions.

 

You can argue that you could have a system where only people that drive cars should pay for roads, and people taking the bus should have it built in to the cost. You could argue that only people with kids should pay for schools, or that all schools should be private and paid for by parents. But then, there are plenty that can't afford to pay for their kids to go to school. Either way, you're paying money for something, and ultimately whether it goes to the government or the 'National Road Maintenance Association' doesn't make a big deal. And I guess you could pay for a bodyguard, but he's not stopping a tank.

 

We need to pay taxes, at some rate, to keep the country running smoothly. Don't want to pay taxes? Go to the Caymen Islands, monaca, andorra or somewhere. As it is, you guys pay a pretty low tax rate anyway.

[gftChris]

"The freedom to refuse service to someone you believe offends your morality."

 

Sure. You're staunchly Christian, and two dudes come in to your bakery hand in hand, asking you for a cake for their wedding. You politely tell them that you believe that their way of life is immoral and you feel very uncomfortable about making a cake for them. Fine, that's a reasonable stance.

 

Then, when Ahmed's bakery refuses service to a woman with her hair uncovered, or unaccompanied, because he feels uncomfortable, you have to respect that as well. When Mordechai Rosenblat says 'sorry, I can't scan your ham and cheese sandwich or your six-pack, it's against my religion' then you have to accept that as well. I can imagine some of those things won't go across so well.

[gftChris]

"The freedom to actually practice your faith should you care to"

 

Nobody is stopping this?

[MLD Woody]

Tx pointed it out well enough.

I would say the freedom to earn and keep your money would be a good starting point. The freedom to not be forced to give 30 40 50 60 70 to the government to do things but you probably don't want done. And that goes for each and everyone of us right or left.

The freedom to refuse service to someone you believe offends your morality. And that could go for either side as well. The freedom to actually practice your faith should you care to. The freedom to speak in a politically incorrect way.

And in honesty not very much of what I care to do is against the law.

Of course we are a rich country. Most people in rich countries don't really care how free they are. Poverty breeds revolution and like me, most of us don't care at the end of the day.

WSS

I'm sure TX will enjoy his freedom from the fire department, police department, national defense, national parks, veteran benefits, NASA, functioning highways, etc, as wrll

[gftChris]

"The freedom to speak in a politically incorrect way."

 

You're free to say what you want. You're not free from the repercussions of being a dick. You walk in to harlem and shout "man, so many fucking niggers in here, no way am I going to make it out again with my wallet" and yeah, there's probably going to be consequences.

 

You walk in to a town square in the hamptons, with a ghetto blaster playing "rich white folk, they gotta die" and you might be politely asked to turn the volume down a touch.

[calfoxwc]

yeah, and if you refuse to become a Muslim, then you can be murdered.

 

so, bullying means nobody should ever stand up for what they believe in.

[gftChris]

yeah, and if you refuse to become a Muslim, then you can be murdered.

 

so, bullying means nobody should ever stand up for what they believe in.

So, don't let anyone be a muslim? Now who's free to practise whatever religion they want.

[Taco918]

So, don't let anyone be a muslim? Now who's free to practise whatever religion they want.

Only God fearing Christians of course.

[Westside Steve]

Gee Chris I thought you were a starch Christian a few days ago. Well I'm not and I didn't use that example did I? If I was going for a gotcha I'd be giving the example of a black bakery refusing to bake cakes for the Klan with tails on the African Americans. I think you would agree they could tell the klan to fuck off.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

And you are certainly wrong about the repercussions of being a dick.

Only certain examples of non political speech can be punished without repercussions.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

I'm sure TX will enjoy his freedom from the fire department, police department, national defense, national parks, veteran benefits, NASA, functioning highways, etc, as wrll

Maybe he would also enjoy the freedom of not paying for us drones to murder Muslim women and children. Ya think?

Or may be paying for prisons to lock up the hundreds of thousands of fictitious minor pot possession criminals?

Or maybe even paying benefits from our pockets and our school systems for millions of illegal immigrants?

Or paying to send hundreds of thousands of Americans to die in Iraq and Afghanistan? You see it ain't all about the fire department.

 

WSS

[gftChris]

So cut back on the military then? And reinvest the hundreds of billions spent on education, for example.

[Westside Steve]

we invest more in education than any other country on the planet. and yet the Liberals love to post the listings with the United States ranked at 13 14 or 15 in the world. So you want more? Great. Send us over a check. By the way do you think India spends as much as we do?

 

And the military. Maybe some people think we should double up on it. You? Maybe some people we think we spend too much and kill too many innocent people, you? At any rate on either side people are not free to choose whether to spend half their earnings to that end.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Here's a hypothetical. You own a shop in let's say a somewhat liberal community, maybe Cleveland Heights.

One of your employees on his day off is the assistant Grand Wizard at the local ku Klux Klan headquarters.

your customers really don't like that. Can you fire him? Should you be allowed to?

if you do fire him should you be sued and he be paid reparation?

WSS

[gftChris]

KKK is a 'hate group' so yes, you'd be ok firing him in my mind, particularly if his actions brought your store in to disrepute (going on anti-black marches for example).

[MLD Woody]

Maybe he would also enjoy the freedom of not paying for us drones to murder Muslim women and children. Ya think?

Or may be paying for prisons to lock up the hundreds of thousands of fictitious minor pot possession criminals?

Or maybe even paying benefits from our pockets and our school systems for millions of illegal immigrants?

Or paying to send hundreds of thousands of Americans to die in Iraq and Afghanistan? You see it ain't all about the fire department.

WSS

Never said it was perfect. The pros outweigh the cons though.

[Westside Steve]

KKK is a 'hate group' so yes, you'd be ok firing him in my mind, particularly if his actions brought your store in to disrepute (going on anti-black marches for example).

Well it isn't illegal to be a member. Like it would not be illegal to be a member of the New Black Panthers.

And you are adding hypotheticals which wasn't part part of the question even if attending a white solidarity rally is perfectly legal.

How about Louis Farrakhans nation of islam?

Can we fire them?

WSS

[MLD Woody]

If it negatively is affecting your business, I think its fine.

[calfoxwc]

So, there ya go. If serving gays is hurting your business,

 

ban them out of your business.

 

Except THEN, "hurting your business" is to be ignored, at liberals' whim.

[gftChris]

So, there ya go. If serving gays is hurting your business,

 

ban them out of your business.

 

Except THEN, "hurting your business" is to be ignored, at liberals' whim.

If serving gay people is hurting your business then you're in a very fucked up market. Like when people would see you serving black people in the 40s and say "I'm not going to that shop, that whole place is dirty now that N*****'s gone in there" or whatever.

[Westside Steve]

If serving gay people is hurting your business then you're in a very fucked up market. Like when people would see you serving black people in the 40s and say "I'm not going to that shop, that whole place is dirty now that N*****'s gone in there" or whatever.

I do agree with you Chris but that's not the hypothetical. The hypothetical is if it does hurt your business or not.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

The hypothetical wasn't about refusing service, it was about firing an employee.

 

If you operate a business in a place so backwards and ignorant that having an employee that is pro gay hurts your business, then you can fire him or her.

 

Of course... You light be getting some major backlash from the majority...

[sadbrownsfan]

we invest more in education than any other country on the planet. and yet the Liberals love to post the listings with the United States ranked at 13 14 or 15 in the world. So you want more? Great. Send us over a check. By the way do you think India spends as much as we do?

 

And the military. Maybe some people think we should double up on it. You? Maybe some people we think we spend too much and kill too many innocent people, you? At any rate on either side people are not free to choose whether to spend half their earnings to that end.

WSS

 

Its sad that we spend more per child then other countries, yet our average scores are so low

 

 

"In mathematics, 29 nations and other jurisdictions outperformed the United States by a statistically significant margin, up from 23 three years ago," reports . "In science, 22 education systems scored above the U.S. average, up from 18 in 2009." http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/12/03/248329823/u-s-high-school-students-slide-in-math-reading-science

 

[Westside Steve]

Am I the only one who thinks the one chart looks like rainbow colored tampons? Anyway I've seen very similar charts quite often. 6 or so months ago on the McLaughlin Group that was one of the segments on the show and 1 of the panelists quoted some statistics (that I can't exactly find but I believe are probably true). They said when you take the inner city blacks and Hispanics out of the equation the United States is first or second in every one of those categories.

 

The underperformance of those two groups destroys the bell curve.

 

Beyond that I don't think anything will change with more money for the schools because almost all of that money goes to administration and teaching salaries. I don't believe advanced degrees and high pay make teachers better at what they do. I think it's a gift. A talent that not everyone has no matter how much they are paid.

 

WSS

[sadbrownsfan]

Now I can't unsee that it looks like a rainbow colored tampons.

 

 

I am sure there is stats out there that would support that, I would also assume if we removed a couple states that always seem to have low rankings(mississippi, arkansas) it would have the same affect.

 

One of the biggest issues, is there is no national standards for teaching, its all done at the state level, I am hopeful that Common Core(or something similar) gets their issues worked out and is more accepted nationally.

[Westside Steve]

Mississippi is 37.4% Black.

I assume most people would guess their standards are low because they are such a red state.

But. ..

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

If you removed the inner city shit hole schools, the US grade would raise dramatically.

[Westside Steve]

I wonder if many of the other countries have a significant underperforming subculture.

WSS

[calfoxwc]

If serving gay people is hurting your business then you're in a very fucked up market. Like when people would see you serving black people in the 40s and say "I'm not going to that shop, that whole place is dirty now that N*****'s gone in there" or whatever.

Chris

*******************************

That's nonsense. You don't know the difference between the color of peoples' skin, and

 

a perversion of natural sexual attraction? figures. There is no choice involved in having a different

color of skin,

 

There is a perverted choice to act out as being gay. Weird to have to explain that to liberals.

[TXDawg]

Actually you're not 'free' to move to another country. You could get a passport and go there on vacation. Actually moving there permanently is not easy unless you marry one of the nationals, then it would be easier. Or come to think of it, you could just overstay your visa and ask for a fast track to citizenship.

wasn't even worth responding to imo which is why i ignored it twice.

a animal can't become free by moving to a different cage.

 

Where can I move to where I will be free of others forcing their beliefs on me? No where so I argue the virtue of the non aggression principle. I'm not trying to force my beliefs on others. I'm trying to convince others to live by a moral standard that harms no one.

 

we have a severe thinking problem in the world today.

 

Socrates was insecure about his intelligence. Studies have shown many intelligent people are. Sadly, the dumber you are, the smarter you think you are.

 

Anyway, Socrates was dumbfounded when the oracle said he was the smartest person in Greece so he went out to prove the oracle wrong. He talked to all the intellectuals in Greece and he came to the conclusion he was indeed the smartest man in Greece simply because he knew he didn't truly know anything. The intellectuals were so consumed with their knowledge they were too close minded to see hypocrisies or holes in their knowledge

 

Sound like anyone in modern times?

Ever tried to explain the meaning of the word equal to a feminist?

What about "MMGW"?

 

The debate is settled - (while at the same time making fun of others for not believing in evolution. a theory that if you believe to be true would have to be the cause of global warming if you think it's caused by man's actions. We come from dumb monkeys, evolution created our ability, our biological needs created our innovative desire, therefore we didn't create shit. we are not gods we are overachieving animals trying to get laid, warm, fed, comfortable)

 

and if the science is settled, you can't recognize changes or new information. What if there's another explanation? What if it's caused by a signal being sent from aliens who want to take over our planet. These people are too close minded to see it. So, the aliens win.

 

The Socratic method is applied more when trying to get the car to start than when we discuss politics. that's sad.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method

 

Ah so your preference would be anarchy. Lots of freedom, no rights. That makes complete sense considering mankind truly flourished during prehistoric times and all.

Rights are created by government. It's a concept, not an asset.

 

You are talking about centralized force to protect yourself. I don't need rights if no one is applying force to me. I don't need a right to breath, I just do it.

 

Selective history considering the massive amounts of death and suffering that people have been forced through by the hand of government. Christ, it hasn't even been 100 years since the Holocaust.

 

Still, you do have a point, For a system of liberty to work, rules would need to be taught. Moral rules. We would have to change our parasitical nature. People would have to quit being assholes.

Right now we live in dog eat dog. We don't try to convince others to be moral, we try to force others to be moral in a way that benefits us through force. We don't make arguments, we shame. We lie, we don't challenge our beliefs. we love group-think and bitching about fox news or msnbc.

 

The conversation should be about virtue in the absence of force.

 

but When we see a problem we want a law which gives our opinion a gun behind it.

 

I will never argue for the presence of rulers. But I will argue for the presence of rules. Rules are essential.

IMO we should be striving for the non-aggression principle to be voluntarily taught and adopted.

 

Eventually, one could hope we would quit being assholes and learn how to live in peace.

The threat of violence, the action of force is never going to obtain peace and liberty.

 

There are theories on how this can be achieved. I think some are interesting.

 

Government is a tool for the parasite because all government is, is an opinion with a gun.

it has no pixy dust, no iron clad corruption proof wrapping.

the power you give bush will become the power obama gets who then gives it to who?

the music will stop and allow evil people to take control.

 

living by the the NAP is the only way I can see to be moral because I reject the initiation of force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

 

maybe I'm wrong.

But I've eliminated this as being right: