Weaponry

[The Gipper]

OK, lets appease the likes of Ghoolie and talk about the offensive skill positions. The "Weaponry" if you will that primarily scores points for you.

 

Which NFL teams have the best "combined arsenal", that is the best combination of QB, RB, TE, and 2 WRs?

 

Lets start at first by looking at the AFC North and see what we have there. Per Ourlads Depths charts here are the weapons at hand for the 4 AFCN teams:

 

Baltimore: QB: Flacco RB: Bernard Pierce TE: Dennis Pitta WRs: Steve Smith and Torrey Smith

 

Cincy: QB: Dalton RB: Giovanni Bernard: TE Tyler Eifert WRs: AJ Green and Mohammed Sanu

 

Browns: QB: Hoyer RB: Ben Tate TE: Jordan Cameron WRs: Josh Gordon and Andrew Hawkins

(this assumes Gordon's availability)

 

Pitt: QB: Roethlisberger RB: Leveon Bell TE: Heath Miller WRs: Antonio Brown and Markus Wheaton

 

Which of these teams have the biggest guns?

[The Gipper]

And what about the rest of the NFL overall?

 

Bears seem pretty well armed with Cutler, Forte, Jeffreys, Brandon Marshall, Bennett

 

Falcons? with Ryan, Roddy White, Julio Jones, Steven Jackson and Levine Toilio?

 

Broncos? with Manning, Montee Ball, Demarious Thomas, Wes Welker, Julius Thomas?

 

What are the other best armed teams. What are the worst?

[JAFBF]

This should fit here, some highlights of Hawkins :

 

 

 

This guy has some down right crazy cuts.

[Taco918]

Best: Bears, Broncos, Cowboys

 

Worst: Jags and Raiders.

[Taco918]

AFC North is tough. I think the Ravens have the best top 2 WR, we have the best TE, Steelers have the best QB, and Cincy has the best overall WR and probably the most potential (Benard, Eifert, and Sanu) overall.

 

Gun to my head, I'd ask for another question.

[The Gipper]

Best: Bears, Broncos, Cowboys

 

Worst: Jags and Raiders.

Cowboys? Romo, DeMarco Murray at RB, Witten at TE, Dez Bryant and Terence Williams. Not bad. Top 3? I doubt it.

 

You may be right about Jags/Raiders

Jags: Henne QB, Toby Gerhart RB, Marcedes Lewis TE, Cecil Shorts and either rookie Allen Robinson or Marquise Lee WRs.

 

Raiders: Shaub QB, Darren McFadden RB, David Ausberry TE, James Jones and Rod Streator WRs.

 

Neither very good.

 

Without Gordon, Browns are really iffy: Hoyer, Tate, Cameron, Hawkins and Austin??

[The Gipper]

AFC North is tough. I think the Ravens have the best top 2 WR, we have the best TE, Steelers have the best QB, and Cincy has the best overall WR and probably the most potential (Benard, Eifert, and Sanu) overall.

 

Gun to my head, I'd ask for another question.

Browns big question, of course, is QB.....but why do I think that Dalton could actually fall to the #4 position in this division?

Other than being taller, what does he do that is better than what it seems that Hoyer is capable of? maybe a bit of a stronger arm?

 

But, think about these weapons the Browns could have had:

QB Weeden RB Richardson..or Montario Hardesty WRs: Greg Little and Travis Benjamin....or Carlton Mitchell or MoMass and Robiskie (each of which would only be 6th year veterans coming into this season...really just the prime for a lot of WRs.) and TE: Martin Rucker.

[Taco918]

Dammit Gipper your going to make me defend the Cowboys. I just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

All better, here we go:

 

Romo is well within that second tier of QB's behind the top 4. Let's say top 10 at worst.

 

Murray is a top 10, if not top 5, back when healthy.

 

Witten is still in a top 5 TE. Their backup, Hanna, had shown some flashes too.

 

Dez is a top 5 WR. Williams was impressive last year and should only get more looks as the clear cut #2 this year.

 

This lineup came a late Romo pick from beating the Broncos, in the midst of their offensive explosion to being the year, in a shootout last year.

 

Gipper please don't make me defend the Cowboys more. I'm already mad at you for making me do it to begin with.

[Taco918]

Browns big question, of course, is QB.....but why do I think that Dalton could actually fall to the #4 position in this division?

Other than being taller, what does he do that is better than what it seems that Hoyer is capable of? maybe a bit of a stronger arm?

 

But, think about these weapons the Browns could have had:

QB Weeden RB Richardson..or Montario Hardesty WRs: Greg Little and Travis Benjamin....or Carlton Mitchell or MoMass and Robiskie (each of which would only be 6th year veterans coming into this season...really just the prime for a lot of WRs.) and TE: Martin Rucker.

I could see Flacco and Dalton dropping to the 4 spot. Ben is the only sure thing in the division.

 

Our current weapons are much, much better then they have been but it's not really a tough mark to beat. Hell this might be the first year in awhile that our weapons actually regress, depending on Gordon of course.

[The Gipper]

Can it be fair to say that whomever has been choosing our offensive weaponry in the past must have just been a ROTC guy at a local college....because it seems clear that they did not get a degree from West Point or Annapolis. Here is what the Browns braintrust has chosen since 2007 for their arsenal:

 

QBs: Brady Quinn, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel

 

RBs: James Davis, Montario Hardesty, Trent Richardson, Brad Smelley(FB), Terence West

 

TEs: Martin Rucker, Cameron Jordan

 

WRs: Syndric Steptoe, Paul Hubbard, Robo, MoMass, Carlton Mitchell, Greg Little, Travis Benjamin (plus Gordon in the Supp)

 

Only two weapons have proven battle worthy: Cameron/Gordon. The rest have been pretty much duds that have blown up in our faces.

[The Gipper]

Dammit Gipper your going to make me defend the Cowboys. I just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

All better, here we go:

 

Romo is well within that second tier of QB's behind the top 4. Let's say top 10 at worst.

When I ranked all the QBs in a recent thread, I definitely did not have Romo in the Top 10. I think he was lucky to make the Top half.

 

Murray is a top 10, if not top 5, back when healthy.

Definitely not Top 5: Lynch, AP, Forte, Lacy, mcCoy from Philly

 

Witten is still in a top 5 TE. Their backup, Hanna, had shown some flashes too.

Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, Cameron, Julius Thomas, Jermichael Finley.

Witten in a lesser group with say Heath Miller, Tyler Eifert

 

Dez is a top 5 WR. Williams was impressive last year and should only get more looks as the clear cut #2 this year.

He may make the Top 5 cut, maybe not. Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Demarius Thomas, Gordon, Brandon Marshall may beat him out.....but he is arguable.

 

This lineup came a late Romo pick from beating the Broncos, in the midst of their offensive explosion to being the year, in a shootout last year.

 

Gipper please don't make me defend the Cowboys more. I'm already mad at you for making me do it to begin with.

Just accept my evaluation and you won't have to.

[ITHIKA]

49ers have QB- Colin Kaepernick, RB-Gore, Hunter, James, Hyde, Lattimore. TE-Davis, WR-Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson, Loyd. And probable the best oline in the nfl. With the addition of Stevie Johnson in the slot and the drafting of Carlos Hyde watch out.

[The Gipper]

49ers have QB- Colin Kaepernick, RB-Gore, Hunter, James, Hyde, Lattimore. TE-Davis, WR-Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson, Loyd. And probable the best oline in the nfl. With the addition of Stevie Johnson in the slot and the drafting of Carlos Hyde watch out.

Indeed.

[Taco918]

QB- I remember your rankings and didn't agree. Overall team success played a larger role than individual stats in your rankings. I'd argue individual stats are more telling but that's a different discussion for a different day.

 

RB- One good year puts Lacy in the top 5? I could see substituting Gore but I'd argue Murray has more overall talent than Gore but then again they have different styles. Needless to say Murray is top 10, near top 5.

 

TE- Finley would be lucky to be top 10-15. He can't stay healthy and his production has constantly disappointed. Witten has consistently produced more than Davis (who based on talent should be putting up Graham or Gronk numbers) and while I'm a big Cameron fan, he's had a single year of production. I think we can agree that hopefully Cameron keeps it up.

 

WR- I'd take Dez over Marshall and potentially Gordon and Thomas. Trust me it pains me to say that with being a Browns and GT fan but I'm also a Poke fan. Either way my affiliations have some badass WR's. If only Blackmon could get his shit straight and Hill would finally live up to his potential.

[utzie]

 

Dammit Gipper your going to make me defend the Cowboys. I just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

All better, here we go:

 

Romo is well within that second tier of QB's behind the top 4. Let's say top 10 at worst.

When I ranked all the QBs in a recent thread, I definitely did not have Romo in the Top 10. I think he was lucky to make the Top half.

 

Murray is a top 10, if not top 5, back when healthy.

Definitely not Top 5: Lynch, AP, Forte, Lacy, mcCoy from Philly

 

Witten is still in a top 5 TE. Their backup, Hanna, had shown some flashes too.

Jimmy Graham, Vernon Davis, Cameron, Julius Thomas, Jermichael Finley.

Witten in a lesser group with say Heath Miller, Tyler Eifert

 

Dez is a top 5 WR. Williams was impressive last year and should only get more looks as the clear cut #2 this year.

He may make the Top 5 cut, maybe not. Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Demarius Thomas, Gordon, Brandon Marshall may beat him out.....but he is arguable.

 

This lineup came a late Romo pick from beating the Broncos, in the midst of their offensive explosion to being the year, in a shootout last year.

 

Gipper please don't make me defend the Cowboys more. I'm already mad at you for making me do it to begin with.

Just accept my evaluation and you won't have to.

 

 

Not sure how you left Jamaal Charles out of the top 5 RB list. Replace Lacy with Charles, and I think you got it right there.

 

With that said, Murray isn't nearly as good as any of those 5 guys. I'll give him top 10, though, as long as he stays healthy.

[Taco918]

 

Not sure how you left Jamaal Charles out of the top 5 RB list. Replace Lacy with Charles, and I think you got it right there.

 

With that said, Murray isn't nearly as good as any of those 5 guys. I'll give him top 10, though, as long as he stays healthy.

I missed Charles too. Not sure how I pulled that off.

[The Gipper]

QB- I remember your rankings and didn't agree. Overall team success played a larger role than individual stats in your rankings. I'd argue individual stats are more telling but that's a different discussion for a different day.

I don't think that individual stats constitutes what most people feel goes into being the best QBs. Lists of the greatest of all time include the biggest winners of all time: Montana/Brady/Graham/Starr etc. With the rare exception of Marino I would say that the most highly thought of QBs of all time were the winners.

Romo has won what? One single playoff game his entire career. I mean, you are approaching like Jay Fiedler and Shaun King country there. Active QBs that have won more than him include the likes of Vick, Rex Grossman, Mark Sanchez, Matt Hassleback

 

RB- One good year puts Lacy in the top 5? I could see substituting Gore but I'd argue Murray has more overall talent than Gore but then again they have different styles. Needless to say Murray is top 10, near top 5.

a big maybe. arguable at best

 

TE- Finley would be lucky to be top 10-15. He can't stay healthy and his production has constantly disappointed. Witten has consistently produced more than Davis (who based on talent should be putting up Graham or Gronk numbers) and while I'm a big Cameron fan, he's had a single year of production. I think we can agree that hopefully Cameron keeps it up.

And I thin that a lot of your opinion about Witten is based on what he used to be, like Heath Miller. Can they both catch some passes? Sure. But then maybe so can Ben Watson....and that is where Witten can be considered to be.

 

WR- I'd take Dez over Marshall and potentially Gordon and Thomas. Trust me it pains me to say that with being a Browns and GT fan but I'm also a Poke fan. Either way my affiliations have some badass WR's. If only Blackmon could get his shit straight and Hill would finally live up to his potential.

Another big maybe.

Someone mentioned the 49ers....I believe they far exceed the Cowboys.

[The Gipper]

 

Not sure how you left Jamaal Charles out of the top 5 RB list. Replace Lacy with Charles, and I think you got it right there.

 

With that said, Murray isn't nearly as good as any of those 5 guys. I'll give him top 10, though, as long as he stays healthy.

OK, I agree about Charles. Just an oversight....going off the top of my head.

[Taco918]

Kaep and Wilson may have won more in their much shorter careers than Romo but neither is asked to do nearly as much as Romo and are on much better overall teams. The Cowboys are bottom feeders without Romo. The 49ers are still a playoff team without Kaep, as they were with Smith. Seahawks are boarder line depending on who replaces Wilson. You put Kaep or Wilson on the Cowboys, they struggle for 8-8, less so with Wilson.

 

Those great QB's you named also put up impressive stats during their time.

 

You severely underrate Witten. Last year was one of his worst and he still put up top 5 numbers. To rank him any where other than top 5 is asinine at best.

[The Gipper]

Kaep and Wilson may have won more in their much shorter careers than Romo but neither is asked to do nearly as much as Romo and are on much better overall teams. The Cowboys are bottom feeders without Romo. The 49ers are still a playoff team without Kaep, as they were with Smith. Seahawks are boarder line depending on who replaces Wilson. You put Kaep or Wilson on the Cowboys, they struggle for 8-8, less so with Wilson.

 

Those great QB's you named also put up impressive stats during their time.

 

You severely underrate Witten. Last year was one of his worst and he still put up top 5 numbers. To rank him any where other than top 5 is asinine at best.

Sorry, I will stick to my guns. Romo is middle of the road. There are at least a dozen QBs better if not more.

 

Witten, OK, top ten, I guess.

[Alkid3]

Sorry, I will stick to my guns. Romo is middle of the road. There are at least a dozen QBs better if not more.

 

Witten, OK, top ten, I guess.

I agree. Romo is done. And I get it if you switch QB blah blah blah. Romo has had squads where he should of been deep in the playoffs for years. Witten is also pretty much done. But I'll give him top 10.

[PoeticG]

I would take the Browns- Top to bottom, over any other teams weapons. We are breaking out this year...

[Comeonman]

Dammit Gipper your going to make me defend the Cowboys. I just threw up a little in my mouth.

 

All better, here we go:

 

Romo is well within that second tier of QB's behind the top 4. Let's say top 10 at worst.

 

Murray is a top 10, if not top 5, back when healthy.

 

Witten is still in a top 5 TE. Their backup, Hanna, had shown some flashes too.

 

Dez is a top 5 WR. Williams was impressive last year and should only get more looks as the clear cut #2 this year.

 

This lineup came a late Romo pick from beating the Broncos, in the midst of their offensive explosion to being the year, in a shootout last year.

 

Gipper please don't make me defend the Cowboys more. I'm already mad at you for making me do it to begin with.

I would have said a couple years ago Romo was top ten. Now I would say Manning Manning Rogers Brady Brees Ryan Luck Kap Newton and Rivers. Romo is pretty much done

[RoyceRolls]

Best: Bears, Broncos, Cowboys

 

Worst: Jags and Raiders.

 

If Bortles, Lee and Robinson end up being as good as people think they are, the jags could very quickly turn their weaponry status around.

[gftChris]

Anybody see the 'division' superbowl thing going around? Basically picking an all-division team and having a knockout competition based on voters.

http://nflspinzone.com/2014/07/25/nfl-division-super-bowl-afc-north-vs-nfc-north/

Not sure who picked the teams, but they ended up with:

 

QB Ben Roethlisberger RB Gio Bernard TE Jordan Cameron WR Josh Gordon WR A.J. Green WR Torrey Smith LT Joe Thomas LG Andrew Whitworth C Alex Mack RG Marshal Yanda RT

Andre Smith

 

 

 

DE Geno Atkins NT Haloti Ngata DE Cam Heyward LB Terrell Suggs LB Vontaze Burfict LB Lawrence Timmons LB Jason Worilds CB Joe Haden CB Jimmy Smith S Donte Whitner S Troy Polamalu

 

6 players out of 22, all pro-bowlers. It's bit obvious to pick those players. But I'd question Worilds over some of the other backers in the division (not specifically ours). Also cam heyward over rubin/bryant? Close one.

[utzie]

 

Anybody see the 'division' superbowl thing going around? Basically picking an all-division team and having a knockout competition based on voters.

http://nflspinzone.com/2014/07/25/nfl-division-super-bowl-afc-north-vs-nfc-north/

Not sure who picked the teams, but they ended up with:

 

QB Ben Roethlisberger RB Gio Bernard TE Jordan Cameron WR Josh Gordon WR A.J. Green WR Torrey Smith LT Joe Thomas LG Andrew Whitworth C Alex Mack RG Marshal Yanda RT

Andre Smith

 

 

 

DE Geno Atkins NT Haloti Ngata DE Cam Heyward LB Terrell Suggs LB Vontaze Burfict LB Lawrence Timmons LB Jason Worilds CB Joe Haden CB Jimmy Smith S Donte Whitner S Troy Polamalu

 

 

Having 6/22 top positions in the division is pretty nice.

 

Also, without looking at the rosters, I'd find it hard to believe that any division team made up would beat the NFC West team. The Seahawks, 49ers, Rams and Cardinals are too talented on both sides of the ball, especially defensively.

[gftChris]

 

Having 6/22 top positions in the division is pretty nice.

 

Also, without looking at the rosters, I'd find it hard to believe that any division team made up would be the NFC West team. The Seahawks, 49ers, Rams and Cardinals are too talented on both sides of the ball, especially defensively.

6/22 is very marginally over 1/4. Which is actually nice, to for once be at least on par with the rest of the division, and not really have too many complaints about those 6.

 

Maybe Daryl Smith over Timmons?

[Tour2ma]

lol... Steptoe... awesome...

 

 

I think that you have to look 3 deep at WRs for a total of 6 weapons just as the Division SB thing did.