Position by position ranking AFCN

[The Gipper]

Per Ourlads, here are the people that are slated as being starters for every position on the field among AFCN teams. You have each position, and each team's starter in alphabetical order of the team. First name on each list is the player from Baltimore, then Cincy, then Cleveland, then Pittsburgh.

Please state how you think these players rank from 1-4:

 

OFFENSE First. Defense on next post.

 

LWR...Torrey Smith.....AJ Green.....Andrew Hawkins.....Markus Wheaton

 

RWR...Steve Smith.....Mohamed Sanu.....Josh Gordon.....Antonio Brown

 

LT...Eugene Monroe.....Andrew Whitworth.....Joe Thomas.....Kelvin Beachum

 

LG...Kelechi Osemeli.....Trey Hopkins.....Joel Bitonio.....Ramon Foster

 

C...Jeremy Zuttah.....Trevor Robinson.....Alex Mack....Maurkice Pouncey

 

RG...Marshall Yanda.....Kevin Zeitler.....John Greco.....David DeCastro

 

RT...Ricky Wagner.....Andre Smith.....Mitchell Schwartz.....Marcus Gilbert

 

TE...Dennis Pitta.....Tyler Eifert.....Jordan Cameron.....Heath Miller

 

QB...Joe Flacco.....Andy Dalton.....Brian Hoyer.....Ben Roethlisberger

 

FB...Kyle Juszczyc.....Nikita Whitlock.....Chris Ogbannaya.....Will Johnson

 

RB.....Ray Rice.....Giovanni Bernard.....Ben Tate.....Leveon Bell

[The Gipper]

DEFENSE: (remember first name is Balt. then Cincy, then Cleve, then Pitt.) Please rank.

 

DE...Brandon Williams.....Carlos Dunlap.....Aytahba Rubin.....Cam Thomas

 

NT...Halati Ngata.....Domata Peko.....Phil Taylor.....Steve McClendon

 

DE...Chris Canty.....Wallace Gilberry.....Desmond Bryant.....Cameron Heyward

 

OLB...Terrell Suggs.....Jason Dimanche.....Paul Kruger.....Jason Worilds

 

ILB...C.J. Mosley.....Brandon Thompson.....Craig Robertson.....Ryan Shazier

 

ILB...Daryl Smith.....Rey Maualuga.....Karlos Dansby.....Lawrence Timmons

 

OLB...Elvis Dumerville.....Vontaze Burfict.....Jabal Sheard.....Jarvis Jones

 

LCB...Ladarius Webb.....Terence Newman.....Joe Haden.....Allen Carter

 

SS...Matt Elam.....George Iloka....Donte Whitner.....Troy Polamalu

 

FS...Darian Stewart.....Reggie Nelson.....Tashaun Gipson.....Mike Mitchell

 

RCB...Jimmy Smith.....Adam Jones.....Justin Gilbert.....Ike Taylor

 

 

P...Sam Koch.....Quinn Sharp.....Spencer Lanning.....Brad Wing

 

K...Justin Tucker.....Mike Nugent.....Billy Cundiff.....Shaun Suisham

 

PR...Jacoby Jones.....Brandon Tate.....Travis Benjamin.....Antonio Brown

 

KR...Jacoby Jones.....Brandon Tate.....Skrine/Hawkins.....Markus Wheaton

[Zombo]

Instead of ranking them, I am just going to pick who I think is the best player at each position:

LWR...Torrey Smith.....AJ Green.....Andrew Hawkins.....Markus Wheaton

RWR...Steve Smith.....Mohamed Sanu.....Josh Gordon.....Antonio Brown

LT...Eugene Monroe.....Andrew Whitworth.....Joe Thomas.....Kelvin Beachum

LG...Kelechi Osemeli.....Trey Hopkins.....Joel Bitonio.....Ramon Foster

C...Jeremy Zuttah.....Trevor Robinson.....Alex Mack....Maurkice Pouncey

RG...Marshall Yanda.....Kevin Zeitler.....John Greco.....David DeCastro

RT...Ricky Wagner.....Andre Smith.....Mitchell Schwartz.....Marcus Gilbert

TE...Dennis Pitta.....Tyler Eifert.....Jordan Cameron.....Heath Miller

QB...Joe Flacco.....Andy Dalton.....Brian Hoyer.....Ben Roethlisberger

FB...Kyle Juszczyc.....Nikita Whitlock.....Chris Ogbannaya.....Will Johnson

RB.....Ray Rice.....Giovanni Bernard.....Ben Tate.....Leveon Bell

[Zombo]

Instead of ranking them, I am just going to pick who I think is the best player at each position:

 

DEFENSE: (remember first name is Balt. then Cincy, then Cleve, then Pitt.) Please rank.

 

DE...Brandon Williams.....Carlos Dunlap.....Aytahba Rubin.....Cam Thomas

 

NT...Halati Ngata.....Domata Peko.....Phil Taylor.....Steve McClendon

 

DE...Chris Canty.....Wallace Gilberry.....Desmond Bryant.....Cameron Heyward

 

OLB...Terrell Suggs.....Jason Dimanche.....Paul Kruger.....Jason Worilds

 

ILB...C.J. Mosley.....Brandon Thompson.....Craig Robertson.....Ryan Shazier

 

ILB...Daryl Smith.....Rey Maualuga.....Karlos Dansby.....Lawrence Timmons

 

OLB...Elvis Dumerville.....Vontaze Burfict.....Jabal Sheard.....Jarvis Jones

 

LCB...Ladarius Webb.....Terence Newman.....Joe Haden.....Allen Carter

 

SS...Matt Elam.....George Iloka....Donte Whitner.....Troy Polamalu

 

FS...Darian Stewart.....Reggie Nelson.....Tashaun Gipson.....Mike Mitchell

 

RCB...Jimmy Smith.....Adam Jones.....Justin Gilbert.....Ike Taylor

 

 

P...Sam Koch.....Quinn Sharp.....Spencer Lanning.....Brad Wing

 

K...Justin Tucker.....Mike Nugent.....Billy Cundiff.....Shaun Suisham

 

PR...Jacoby Jones.....Brandon Tate.....Travis Benjamin.....Antonio Brown

 

KR...Jacoby Jones.....Brandon Tate.....Skrine/Hawkins.....Markus Wheaton

[The Gipper]

Joe Thomas at left tackle is the only one where the Browns player is clearly better than the Steelers player. On the other hand these Steelers players are clearly better:

 

Antonio Brown....NOT when he is matched against Gordon, but yes, if when Gordon is suspended.

Pouncey...You must be smoking manure. Mack is better...and that is not my opinion but those of his fellow players.

DeCastro...DeCastro is unproven still. He may get there. It is about even with the veteran Greco...he may pass him.

Heath Miller...maybe once upon a time. Not now. Miller over the hill, Cameron just approaching the rise.

Ben....OK, sure

Leveon Bell...Ben Tate has had a more productive career. If you are lucky the two are even

 

But have another toke, it would take a lot to get those lungs full

 

Looks like you started smoking when you woke up. Actually I only see maybe 3 slots where the Steelers are clearly better...on the entire 26 person roster....and two of those are K and P and BR.

Even one of our weakest slots....the Craig Robertson ILB slot, cannot be give to the Steelers as they have Shazier, a rookie at that spot.

And no unproven rookie could ever be given the nod over a veteran.

In that regard, I guess the Steelers have to be given the edge at LG as they have a veteran there over our rookie Bitonio.

And THAT is about it.

[The Gipper]

So...Zombo gives the Browns the #1 slot at 12 positions, the Ravens get #1 at 8 positions, Bengals get 3 positions, Steelers get 2.

But Douchenozzle says that only Joe Thomas is a better player than any corresponding Steeler player.

 

Now, who do you think is right?

[The Gipper]

Per Ourlads, here are the people that are slated as being starters for every position on the field among AFCN teams. You have each position, and each team's starter in alphabetical order of the team. First name on each list is the player from Baltimore, then Cincy, then Cleveland, then Pittsburgh.

Please state how you think these players rank from 1-4:

 

OFFENSE First. Defense on next post.

 

My effort at ranking them, though I don't know the qualities of every single player

 

LWR...Torrey Smith---2.....AJ Green---1.....Andrew Hawkins--t3.....Markus Wheaton--t3

 

RWR...Steve Smith--4.....Mohamed Sanu--3.....Josh Gordon--1.....Antonio Brown---2

(yes, Gordon being gone will elevate the others and put whomever the Browns have down to #4

 

LT...Eugene Monroe--3.....Andrew Whitworth--2.....Joe Thomas--1.....Kelvin Beachum--4

 

LG...Kelechi Osemeli--2.....Trey Hopkins--1....Joel Bitonio--4.....Ramon Foster--3

(any rookie starter gets the #4 slot until proven)

 

C...Jeremy Zuttah--4.....Trevor Robinson--3.....Alex Mack--1....Maurkice Pouncey--2

 

RG...Marshall Yanda--1.....Kevin Zeitler--2.....John Greco--t3.....David DeCastro--t3

 

RT...Ricky Wagner.....Andre Smith.....Mitchell Schwartz.....Marcus Gilbert Dead even across the board, I am not sure how these stack up

 

TE...Dennis Pitta--2.....Tyler Eifert--4.....Jordan Cameron--1.....Heath Miller--3

What happened to Gresham...did he go elsewhere? Sure, Miller used to be up there...not now.

 

QB...Joe Flacco--2.....Andy Dalton--3.....Brian Hoyer--4.....Ben Roethlisberger--1

 

FB...Kyle Juszczyc.....Nikita Whitlock.....Chris Ogbannaya.....Will Johnson again, dead even across the board

 

RB.....Ray Rice--4.....Giovanni Bernard--2.....Ben Tate--1.....Leveon Bell--3

Rice, like Heath Miller is a "used to be"

[Zombo]

So...Zombo gives the Browns the #1 slot at 12 positions, the Ravens get #1 at 8 positions, Bengals get 3 positions, Steelers get 2.

But Douchenozzle says that only Joe Thomas is a better player than any corresponding Steeler player.

 

Now, who do you think is right?

 

I went with homer picks three times where I thought the competition was pretty even ... Tate, Bryant and Sheard.

 

Forgot the other corner, I will bold it now ... Jimmy Smith of the ravens.

[The Gipper]

DEFENSE: (remember first name is Balt. then Cincy, then Cleve, then Pitt.) Please rank.

 

DE...Brandon Williams.....Carlos Dunlap.....Aytahba Rubin.....Cam Thomas

Give tie for 1 to Rubin/Dunlap....then Williams and Thomas tie for 3rd

 

NT...Halati Ngata-1.....Domata Peko-3.....Phil Taylor-2.....Steve McClendon-4

 

DE...Chris Canty--t3.....Wallace Gilberry-1.....Desmond Bryant--2....Cameron Heyward--t3

 

OLB...Terrell Suggs--1.....Jason Dimanche--4.....Paul Kruger--2.....Jason Worilds--3

 

ILB...C.J. Mosley--t3.....Brandon Thompson--1.....Craig Robertson--2.....Ryan Shazier--t3

As noted, Rookies right now get last place. I admit that by the middle of the year Mosley and Shazier may rise to the top of this heap.

 

ILB...Daryl Smith--4.....Rey Maualuga--2.....Karlos Dansby--1.....Lawrence Timmons--3

 

OLB...Elvis Dumerville--1.....Vontaze Burfict--2.....Jabal Sheard--3.....Jarvis Jones--4

 

LCB...Ladarius Webb--3.....Terence Newman--2.....Joe Haden--1.....Allen Carter--4

 

SS...Matt Elam--2.....George Iloka--4....Donte Whitner--1.....Troy Polamalu--3

Polamalu relying now on guile and reputation.

 

FS...Darian Stewart.....Reggie Nelson.....Tashaun Gipson.....Mike Mitchell another 4 way tie...vary little variance...maybe Nelso on top.

 

RCB...Jimmy Smith-1.....Adam Jones-2.....Justin Gilbert-4.....Ike Taylor-3

I think Gilbert has a chance to jump to the top of this fairly mediocre lot.

 

 

P...Sam Koch.....Quinn Sharp.....Spencer Lanning.....Brad Wing 4 way tie?

 

K...Justin Tucker.-1....Mike Nugent-3.....Billy Cundiff-4.....Shaun Suisham-2

 

PR...Jacoby Jones-3.....Brandon Tate-4.....Travis Benjamin-1.....Antonio Brown-2

 

KR...Jacoby Jones-1.....Brandon Tate-2.....Skrine/Hawkins.....Markus Wheaton last two tie for 3

[The Gipper]

Here are how my choices broke down:

 

#1s: Browns 9, Ravens 7, Bengals 5, Steelers 2 (gave Antonio Brown to them with knowledge that Gordon would be out

 

On last place, guess what? Each team got 4 #4 rankings.

[Comeonman]

Hey Douche Nozzle.... How many pro bowlers did the steelers have last year?

[The Gipper]

Hey Douche Nozzle.... How many pro bowlers did the steelers have last year?

Steelers had two players selected for the the Pro Bowl: Antonio Brown. Troy Polamalu

(No BR, the AFC had Brady, Manning, Luck, Rivers make it over BR)

 

Browns had 6: Haden, Thomas, Gordon, Mack, Cameron, and TJ Ward.

 

Browns lost Ward and will clearly lose Gordon. But the Browns replace Ward with Donte Whitner who also made the Pro Bowl.

 

A Pouncey did make it: brother Mike Pouncey of the Dolphins.

[Flyin J]

Per Ourlads, here are the people that are slated as being starters for every position on the field among AFCN teams. You have each position, and each team's starter in alphabetical order of the team. First name on each list is the player from Baltimore, then Cincy, then Cleveland, then Pittsburgh.

Please state how you think these players rank from 1-4:

 

OFFENSE First. Defense on next post.

 

LWR...2.Torrey Smith.....1.AJ Green.....3.Andrew Hawkins.....4.Markus Wheaton

 

RWR...3.Steve Smith.....4.Mohamed Sanu.....1.Josh Gordon.....2.Antonio Brown

 

LT...3.Eugene Monroe.....2.Andrew Whitworth.....1.Joe Thomas.....4.Kelvin Beachum

 

LG...1.Kelechi Osemeli.....2.Trey Hopkins.....4.Joel Bitonio.....3.Ramon Foster

 

C...3.Jeremy Zuttah....4.Trevor Robinson.....1.Alex Mack....2.Maurkice Pouncey

 

RG...4.Marshall Yanda.....1.Kevin Zeitler.....3.John Greco.....2.David DeCastro

 

RT...4.Ricky Wagner.....1.Andre Smith.....2.Mitchell Schwartz.....3.Marcus Gilbert

 

TE...4.Dennis Pitta.....2.Tyler Eifert.....1.Jordan Cameron....3.Heath Miller

 

QB...1.Joe Flacco.....3.Andy Dalton.....4.Brian Hoyer.....2.Ben Roethlisberger

 

FB...4.Kyle Juszczyc....2.Nikita Whitlock.....3.Chris Ogbannaya....1.Will Johnson

 

RB.....2.Ray Rice....1.Giovanni Bernard.....3.Ben Tate.....4.Leveon Bell

[Flyin J]

DEFENSE: (remember first name is Balt. then Cincy, then Cleve, then Pitt.) Please rank.

 

DE..3.Brandon Williams.....1Carlos Dunlap.....2.Aytahba Rubin.....4.Cam Thomas

 

NT...1.Halati Ngata.....2.Domata Peko....3.Phil Taylor.....4.Steve McClendon

 

DE...3.Chris Canty....2.Wallace Gilberry....1.Desmond Bryant.....4.Cameron Heyward

 

OLB..1.Terrell Suggs.....4.Jason Dimanche....3.Paul Kruger.....2.Jason Worilds

 

ILB...1.C.J. Mosley....3..Brandon Thompson.....4.Craig Robertson.....2.Ryan Shazier

 

ILB...3.Daryl Smith....4.Rey Maualuga....2.Karlos Dansby....1.Lawrence Timmons

 

OLB...1.Elvis Dumerville.....2.Vontaze Burfict....3.Jabal Sheard.....4.Jarvis Jones

 

LCB..2..Ladarius Webb....3.Terence Newman.....1.Joe Haden....4.Allen Carter

 

SS...3.Matt Elam....4.George Iloka...2.Donte Whitner....1.Troy Polamalu

 

FS..4.Darian Stewart....2.Reggie Nelson....3.Tashaun Gipson....1.Mike Mitchell

 

RCB...4.Jimmy Smith.....3.Adam Jones.....1.Justin Gilbert....2.Ike Taylor

 

 

P...1.Sam Koch.....3.Quinn Sharp....4.Spencer Lanning.....2.Brad Wing

 

K...1.Justin Tucker....2.Mike Nugent.....3.Billy Cundiff.....4.Shaun Suisham

 

PR...1.Jacoby Jones....4.Brandon Tate.....2.Travis Benjamin.....3.Antonio Brown

 

KR...1.Jacoby Jones.....3.Brandon Tate....2.Skrine/Hawkins.....4.Markus Wheaton

[Comeonman]

Steelers had two players selected for the the Pro Bowl: Antonio Brown. Troy Polamalu

(No BR, the AFC had Brady, Manning, Luck, Rivers make it over BR)

 

Browns had 6: Haden, Thomas, Gordon, Mack, Cameron, and TJ Ward.

 

Browns lost Ward and will clearly lose Gordon. But the Browns replace Ward with Donte Whitner who also made the Pro Bowl.

 

A Pouncey did make it: brother Mike Pouncey of the Dolphins.

My point exactly. Absolutely absurd to say JT at left tackle is the only position we have better than theirs. No point in even trying to have a rational conversation with this idiot

[The Gipper]

Here is a bump for this thread. DoucheNozzle, or whatever he calls himself says that the rankings done here have been too skewed by "Browns Homer views". I certainly encourage any and all to give their opinions. I know there are some JFF fans currently posting.

They certainly should have a somewhat neutral point of view, give that a couple I know have said they have been Cowboy fans in the past.

Please, neutral people, contribute.

[The Gipper]

Not a position by position breakdown, but somewhat of a breakdown nevertheless:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/four-downs/2014/four-downs-afc-north-0

[gftChris]

To be honest, the browns have their fair share of top-of-the-division talent. I'd pick Haden, Thomas and Mack clear above anyone in the division. I wouldn't trade anyone (from the division) for Gipson, Bitonio, Whitner, or Dansby. For sure, other teams have better talent in other positions, and I think it would be interesting to see a pro-bowl/playoff scenario with an all-star team from each division.

[gftChris]

AFCN would probably be a little short in the QB department though - Big Ben would be the guy, but he's not in the same tier as the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Manning and Luck. Still, with Green, Brown, Stevie Smith at WR, essentially the browns OL (healthy, then with Yanda for Greco), and a lucky dip of bell, hill and crowell at RB, the offense could do serious damage. And the D would be monster.

[Mudfly]

And remember that the Browns defense continues to be falsely good in statistics because of how pathetic the Browns offense is. When the Browns offense is not a factor, the opposing team doesn't have to rack up stats against the Browns defense.

Thats a crazy statement....

 

A bad offense creates a better defense????.....Id say 100% the opposite....

 

Our bad offense has kept the D on the field and didn't allow them to rest....meaning they wear down and give up more yards.....and the opposing offense gets more stats because they have the ball all day....

 

Opposing team doesnt "have to rack up stats"???.....who ever heard of such a thing.....as if the other team doesnt even try, because they dont "have to"???

 

idiotic

[Mudfly]

If you know that the team you are playing has no offensive threat you don't have to throw the ball, you don't have to score on every drive, you just have to control the ball and eat up clock, knowing you will score a few points eventually. Conversely, when you play a team who has a powerful offense, you have to throw the ball and you have to move the chains on nearly every drive or you will lose.

Ill give you some agreement there....but still thinks we have a slightly different perspective....

 

That happened the last 2 games....Bengals gave up the pass for the run....BUT, I dont think it was because they "didn't need to score"....I think it's because they couldn't pass against us last game and they knew they could run. So, if we are weak against the run.....you run!....and it worked, so the Panthers followed suit.

 

It's not about racking up stats....its about going with what works and attacking our weakness.....

[gftChris]

You can't base talent on ifs and wishes like The Yapper did. The Browns have the forth best WR in the division until Gordon proves he's the real deal...... Crowell, despite his nice year, is light years away from Bell and even Hill..... and the bottom line is that until the Browns get a solid "team" with a better than average QB, none of that even matters. And remember that the Browns defense continues to be falsely good in statistics because of how pathetic the Browns offense is. When the Browns offense is not a factor, the opposing team doesn't have to rack up stats against the Browns defense.

See now you've gone and done it - I said nothing about browns WRs at all and yet you criticise me for mentioning them. What I was saying about Crowell is, behind an OL of Thomas-Bitonio-Mack/Pouncey-Yanda-??? You could put most AFCN backs in and they'd do excellently. And then you decide to just have a go at the browns in general? Perhaps I shouldn't have dared to talk about Big Ben not being perfect in every way.

[tml1138]

Ill give you some agreement there....but still thinks we have a slightly different perspective....

 

That happened the last 2 games....Bengals gave up the pass for the run....BUT, I dont think it was because they "didn't need to score"....I think it's because they couldn't pass against us last game and they knew they could run. So, if we are weak against the run.....you run!....and it worked, so the Panthers followed suit.

 

It's not about racking up stats....its about going with what works and attacking our weakness.....

 

Exactly. Teams have chosen to run the ball because our run defense pales in comparison to our pass defense. Not rocket science. Colts strength was in their pass game more than their run game, and one of the reasons it was a better showing of our D. (Although they just played better all around that day, but it had a factor.) Likewise had we been able to stop the run on Cincy, and forced Dalton to throw more, it would've been different. Not saying the outcome of the win/loss would've been different, but more turnovers I'd bet and likely not a shut-out game.

[The Gipper]

Just wondering how you feel about your little cheerleader thread now?

The talent is still there to give the edge to the Browns at these various positions. But the edge at QB still makes all the difference....Or didn't you ever realize that QB is the most important position on a football team?

And that winning/losing culture thing is still a major hurdle. (Injuries didn't help either....and don't say "injuries are not an excuse. Only a fucking moron would believe that. And even if they are not an "excuse" they are an "explanation".).

But the QB thing is always going to be an advantage.

[Vagitron]

AFCN would probably be a little short in the QB department though - Big Ben would be the guy, but he's not in the same tier as the likes of Brady, Rodgers, Manning and Luck. Still, with Green, Brown, Stevie Smith at WR, essentially the browns OL (healthy, then with Yanda for Greco), and a lucky dip of bell, hill and crowell at RB, the offense could do serious damage. And the D would be monster.

I don't understand how people are putting luck over Roethlisberger. Beyond that outside of early in his career and recently put Brady or manning behind bens offensive lines and Ben behind theirs and then come talk to me. Brady nor manning can handle any kind of pressure.

[The Gipper]

Gluehead...upside, possible, maybe, and if, are not reasons to anoint someone as having talent. As much as you wish your team was the best at something the BS you put out at the beginning of the season was just that.....BS!

 

Sorry if you are ignorant and stupid.

Put BR on the Browns.....and put Hoyer on the Steelers and what do you have? A much much better Browns team.

 

You really don't need to explain the winning/losing culture to me. That would be like me trying to explain the subtle nuances of your husband to you.

I have never seen anything nuanced about anything that you have ever posted. It is still always just ignorant Steeler fan claims of superiority...

[Stewie]

Yes Gipper, the losing culture is difficult to overcome.

 

The losing culture becomes ingrained in the the back of minds of players the moment they are drafted by the browns. Its a fact that the browns are one of the least desirable teams to play for. Few players want to be drafted by the browns.,,however, once drafted $$$$ they smile $$$$ and wear the hat and display the jersey proudly, and are truly sincere in their desire to be the best they could be and do whatever they can to make the Cleveland Browns a winner....but once the games are played and the reality of losing sets in, that "losing culture" mentality imbedded in the back of their manifests itself and the attitude becomes "oh well"...as if to say these are the browns and it was meant to be.

 

The opposite goes for the Steelers...its a fact that the Steelers are one of the most desirable teams to play for. A player drafted or signed by the Steelers knows he's been drafted by a perennial winner...the winning culture mentality is imbedded firmly in his mind from the get go....and he'll be damned if he's the one that's gonna bring them down! = overachievers. I've always felt that the Steelers always had them...playing above their potential because they are a Pittsburgh Steeler.

[The Gipper]

It's actually comical to see grown men who may otherwise be intelligent members of society turn into the type of idiotic buffoons you represent when it comes to the Browns.

And YOU are exhibit of the type of person who becomes a buffoon when it come to the Browns.

 

There are a lot of great Browns fans who deserve to see a good team before they die. You know, the fans who love the team no matter what and they accept the reality of what the Browns are and have been. Then there are asswipes like you and Zombo who make up your own reality and spew it as if it were fact.

Except, we know exactly what the Browns are and you don't. They are a team with some very good talent....but which has had bad management, bad quarterbacks and a losing attitude. That we all know. That is what we have said. Something needs to spark this team to turn it around. They are capable of laying an ass whipping on the Steelers like they did this year...but they cannot sustain that success. If Z and I are asswipes, you are the TP.

 

Every team has injuries every year, and no amount of injuries will ever make the talent level of a team better than the performance they exhibit on the field. Your early projections of talent by position was nothing more than hopes and dreams based on the guys wearing the Browns uniforms this year.

Yet. last year, a lot of those guys made the Pro Bowl....far more than the Steelers had make it. It wasn't based on hope or dreams but rather on the assessment of coaches and players of the NFL

 

And by the way, if the Browns had BR it wouldn’t make a whole lot of difference because the atmosphere around him would soon bring him down that level.

If you think that would be true, then he really is not the talent you tout him to be.

 

Someday maybe you will accept the reality that is the Cleveland Browns and simply love them because they are your team and stop thinking that a player here or a player there will make the difference. And maybe someday you will stop being bitter about Steeler fans who are simply more in touch with reality.

A player here or there DOES make all the difference......ask any NFL GM. Particularly if that player is a top notch QB.

Look at the Colts.....went, what? 12-4 with Peyton Manning at the helm. Then he gets injured and they go 2-12 (sure, with a little help from a tank). Next year, they get Luck.....back they are into the playoffs.

A guy that good makes a big, big difference. If you don't see that, you are stupid. A team can perform not up to par with an excellent QB......but look at the title of another thread: QBs matter. If you don't think so....you are your name. (you are anyway)

[Zombo]

I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who "has to" deal with you in life. You simply aren't worthy of further discussion.

TRANSLATION: Im too dumb to answer all that.

 

Z

--better to be the asswiper than the toilet paper.

[Clevfan4life]

I think we have the 2nd best OLB'ers in the division. And only cause we're not really using them all that properly. Suggs and Dumer get to be basically pass rushing specialists whereas we've asked our OLB'ers to make up for some of the interior deficiencies throughout the season. If all our guys had to do is set the edge and rush the passer they'd have more similar stats to the Ravens guys. Those guys benefit a TON from that giant pacific islander fuck playing NT for the Ravens.