NFL Team in London

[Taco918]

It would have to be much more lucrative in London than in LA for it make sense logistically, and I just don't see it. But what do I know, I'm not Roger get paid millions to do nothing Goodell

London would also serve as a jumping off point into Europe.

 

Plus LA is working just fine for the owners as the boogeyman to force local governments to pony up for new stadiums.

[The Gipper]

It's bringing your product into a new market.

 

A new market brings the potential for a new revenue streams aka new/more fans, merchandise, as well as endorsement and tv deals to name a few.

 

That's more money that goes into the owners pockets.

 

That is the basic business perspective you guys seem to be struggling with.

 

It seems the NFL is sufficiently impressed with their previous forays in London the past few years that they believe it has enough of a fanbase to support a team, as well as become profitable to the league.

 

Now if you want to debate if the hosting of a few games a year is enough of an impetus to put a franchise there or if the success of those previous games equated more to a spectacle bore out of curiosity instead of actually fandom, go right ahead.

 

The basic business logic involved however, can't be disputed.

Yes, any idjit knows that it is "all about bringing in money from a new market". But what evidence do you have that bringing the NFL to London would bring it more money than bringing the league to the new markets with these names:

Los Angeles

San Antonio

Portland

Las Vegas

Birmingham Alabama.

or even Toronto/Vancouver, or Monterey Mexico

 

Maybe there is a tad bit of interest. They would perhaps make a handful of new money in London....but what if they could make a truck load of new money in San Antonio?

I know that they could make a truck load of money bringing the NFL into the San Antonio/Austin area, one of the fastest growing areas in the US. (of course I also know that Jerry Jones wants that market to himself, even though it is 300 miles away, which would be like Chicago claiming Detroit as its territory.

 

I think we should ask our UK brethren what they think of this possibility.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Not to mention these soccer boys seem to forget there was an NFL Europe that failed miserably.

[The Gipper]

Not to mention these soccer boys seem to forget there was an NFL Europe that failed miserably.

I don't know if it actually failed miserably...or that it even lost money. But it by no means made the kind of cash flow that the owners wanted. I am not sure if they had to subsidize it, but they weren't bringing in the profits they wanted.

 

Edit: in checking, it seems that by the time NFL Europe was folded in 2007 the NFL was subsidizing it to the tune of about $30 million per year. 5 of the 6 NFL Europe teams played in Germany.

 

So just a few years really, 7? they want to put a team back in London? Hell, that London team went from playing in 90,000 seat Wembly Stadium to the equivalent of a high school stadiums with about 7500-15,000 capacity, plus it move around between 3-4 different cities, including London, Birmingham and Bristol.

 

Yea, put teams in London and Birmingham....Ontario and Alabama.

[Taco918]

Yes, any idjit knows that it is "all about bringing in money from a new market". But what evidence do you have that bringing the NFL to London would bring it more money than bringing the league to the new markets with these names:

Los Angeles

San Antonio

Portland

Las Vegas

Birmingham Alabama.

or even Toronto/Vancouver, or Monterey Mexico

 

Maybe there is a tad bit of interest. They would perhaps make a handful of new money in London....but what if they could make a truck load of new money in San Antonio?

I know that they could make a truck load of money bringing the NFL into the San Antonio/Austin area, one of the fastest growing areas in the US. (of course I also know that Jerry Jones wants that market to himself, even though it is 300 miles away, which would be like Chicago claiming Detroit as its territory.

 

I think we should ask our UK brethren what they think of this possibility.

London would serve as a jumping off point into a much, much larger market that is Europe. (I'll leave researching the numbers on potential European markets to you but I feel pretty comfortable assuming they are greater than the American markets you've named.) Could the NFL make more money quickly by adding more teams in the US? Probably, but the NFL is taking the long view of this.

 

What makes more sense long term?

 

Adding more teams for quick cash in an already saturated (or nearly) market which they already dominate?

 

Or taking a risk and moving into an untapped market with only one major competitor (soccer)?

 

Both come with potential risk except one comes with a much larger potential reward.

 

Obviously my previous statements are merely logical jumps from the little information the NFL has released on the topic, the same information we're all working with. The information the NFL has seems to give them the belief that it's worth the risk.

 

I know it may seem like I'm advocating for a team in London, but I'm not. I'm just capable of comprehending the NFL's thought process, something it seems like others are having a hard time grasping (hence the explanation of markets), and see the merit in it from a financial stand point.

 

As for my personal belief on the matter, I don't particularly care for any type of expansion as the thought of diluting the talent pool doesn't sound very appeasing to me. The NFL is currently in a sweet spot with number of opportunities and talent available which plays a big part in the parity of the league, it's most prominent attribute in my eyes.

 

If the NFL should be focusing on anything, in my mind, it should be concussions and the long term ramifications they cause. This issue has the potential to destroy the NFL but that's another discussion for another day.

[The Gipper]

London would serve as a jumping off point into a much, much larger market that is Europe. (I'll leave researching the numbers on potential European markets to you but I feel pretty comfortable assuming they are greater than the American markets you've named.) Could the NFL make more money quickly by adding more teams in the US? Probably, but the NFL is taking the long view of this.

 

What makes more sense long term?

 

Adding more teams for quick cash in an already saturated (or nearly) market which they already dominate?

 

Or taking a risk and moving into an untapped market with only one major competitor (soccer)?

 

Both come with potential risk except one comes with a much larger potential reward.

 

Obviously my previous statements are merely logical jumps from the little information the NFL has released on the topic, the same information we're all working with. The information the NFL has seems to give them the belief that it's worth the risk.

 

I know it may seem like I'm advocating for a team in London, but I'm not. I'm just capable of comprehending the NFL's thought process, something it seems like others are having a hard time grasping (hence the explanation of markets), and see the merit in it from a financial stand point.

 

As for my personal belief on the matter, I don't particularly care for any type of expansion as the thought of diluting the talent pool doesn't sound very appeasing to me. The NFL is currently in a sweet spot with number of opportunities and talent available which plays a big part in the parity of the league, it's most prominent attribute in my eyes.

 

If the NFL should be focusing on anything, in my mind, it should be concussions and the long term ramifications they cause. This issue has the potential to destroy the NFL but that's another discussion for another day.

I understand looking at the long term prospects and the potential size of the market. But the NFL had a long term experiment at this from 1991-2007.

What has changed in the last 6 years to cause things to look so much brighter to warrant a reboot of European expansion? Really?

If this interglobal sports league is such a great idea, then why does not the English Premier League put a team in New York?

But wouldn't they actually be better of putting a team in Leeds, which I do not believe has a team and which is like the 4th largest metro area in England?

[Bob806]

Goodell is like the local politician who wants his name stamped on a rec center or library.

 

The whole idea is stupid, and a London-based team would have huge competitive disadvantages, plus a few positive advantages. I would guess they would stagger a schedule so they'd be home for 4 weeks or so, then away for the same amount of time. Their home opponents would surely almost have to come off of a BYE week to go to London.

[Taco918]

I understand looking at the long term prospects and the potential size of the market. But the NFL had a long term experiment at this from 1991-2007.

What has changed in the last 6 years to cause things to look so much brighter to warrant a reboot of European expansion? Really?

If this interglobal sports league is such a great idea, then why does not the English Premier League put a team in New York?

But wouldn't they actually be better of putting a team in Leeds, which I do not believe has a team and which is like the 4th largest metro area in England?

I remember NFL Europe. I can't give you the answers you're looking for as I'm not privy to the NFL's information on the subject. However I believe the common belief was that the lack of talent in the league and the view of it as a minor league of sorts resulted in its downfall. If they put a team there that competes with the big boys it might drum up more interest. I'm sure Europeans would love an opportunity to beat Americans at their own game as well.

 

As for the EPL putting a team here, I'm not sure, although every country has their own league. I'm not sure if it's just a remnant of that or they didn't like the prospects of going up against football, basketball, baseball and hockey. Plus the MLS is already pretty established.

 

Is Leeds United no longer around? I know they've been regulated a few times but I hadn't heard they completely folded.

[Comeonman]

London would also serve as a jumping off point into Europe.

 

Plus LA is working just fine for the owners as the boogeyman to force local governments to pony up for new stadiums.

Jumping off point to what? Berlin Paris Etc.... I'm sure there's plenty of places to do it, do you want a 44 team league? Too many teams waters down the talent and sport and I'm just fine with 32

[miktoxic]

so just fly a team from the west coast to london or paris and have them play on sunday and schedule their bye after it? so there would be teams with bye weeks in the 2nd, 3rd etc. weeks when they really need to recup in the latter part of the season?

 

c'mon. the whole idea is a joke.

[The Gipper]

I remember NFL Europe. I can't give you the answers you're looking for as I'm not privy to the NFL's information on the subject

Well, I just recited those facts. They were losing 30 million per year on the venture per reports. And the only team in England folded, leaving it primarily a German League.

 

. However I believe the common belief was that the lack of talent in the league and the view of it as a minor league of sorts resulted in its downfall. If they put a team there that competes with the big boys it might drum up more interest. I'm sure Europeans would love an opportunity to beat Americans at their own game as well.

Except it would not be Europeans beating Americans. At least for the foreseeable future any team in London is going to pretty much have all American players and all American coaches and front office. They may get some guy over there to become owner, but he would just be a money man.

 

As for the EPL putting a team here, I'm not sure, although every country has their own league. I'm not sure if it's just a remnant of that or they didn't like the prospects of going up against football, basketball, baseball and hockey. Plus the MLS is already pretty established.

 

Is Leeds United no longer around? I know they've been regulated a few times but I hadn't heard they completely folded.

In checking I didn't see any team in the 20 Premier League teams in Leeds. Maybe I missed something.

If a Leeds team was relegated that would be like making the Philadelphia Phillies or the Houston Astros a AAA team. (Oh, wait, the Astros essentially ARE a AAA team)

 

gft and Howie must be "on holiday" since neither of them have chimed in with their opinions on this subject. It would be good to know their thoughts.

[The Gipper]

so just fly a team from the west coast to london or paris and have them play on sunday and schedule their bye after it? so there would be teams with bye weeks in the 2nd, 3rd etc. weeks when they really need to recup in the latter part of the season?

 

c'mon. the whole idea is a joke.

That could be done....but what about this London team? It would have to make the pond jump at least 8 times a year. That is a bigger issue.

(Plus, don't you think making the London Lords play every game against a team that is coming in off a bye is a bit unfair, competitively?)

....and yes, they would have to be the London Lords......as that was the name of the teams where my kid went to college.

[jrb12711]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NFL Europe essentially the D-League for the NFL before it dissolved? If that's true it seems foolish to compare an actual franchise opprtunity to that. Look, I personally would dislike to see a team in London. But it's clear when NFL teams play there, people show up. Say what you will about Roger Goddell, but it's pretty well documented he's a savvy business leader who's increased the NFL as a brand significantly since he's arrived. I'd listen to and respect the argument of the brand being big enough already, but I'd argue that's not how the world works. It's 2014 and globalization is the key to success. I'm sure the NFL has incredible amounts of info we don't have on the viability of a team in London.

 

From a how it would work traveling perspective, I think you could create a system where teams mostly play London before a bye or on Thursdays (or another day possibly). Not ideal, but definitely plausible. It's definitely weird to think about but I call it like I see it, and at this point I'd bet that a London team experiment will happen.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

If it happens it will fail.

[The Gipper]

If it happens it will fail.

And here is why it won't happen:

 

This isn't like baseball players playing in Toronto, or Montreal. The cost of living in London is vastly higher even than in like NYC. And, of course, they are paid in an entirely different currency.

The NFLPA will demand a "bonus salary", not countable against the salary cap, for any player that would play for a London team.

And that bonus would have to be significant to not only account for the increase in the cost of living, but also to compensate those player for being so far away from home and family.

Maybe the owners think they can get more cash from London....but they will learn that the Players Union will demand a huge portion of that pound of flesh.

And, as a result, they will figure out that players will 10 times prefer to play in LA or SA than in Europe.

To them, London would be a nice place to visit in the off season.....or maybe once a decade play there.....but not as a permanent home.

[The Gipper]

It is a joke that King Roger is still in power. His reign has been blatant disregard for the fans. His only goal is money....money....money

Still being a whiner from the James Harrison deal?

[miktoxic]

what 'league' was HEHATEME in?

 

was that the XFL?

 

hey, i watched it. better than baseball or golf or soccer.

 

hottest trampiest cheerleaders ever.

 

 

 

i thought for sure one of those beotches woulda dropped her drawers for an xtra $20.

[jrb12711]

And here is why it won't happen:

 

This isn't like baseball players playing in Toronto, or Montreal. The cost of living in London is vastly higher even than in like NYC. And, of course, they are paid in an entirely different currency.

The NFLPA will demand a "bonus salary", not countable against the salary cap, for any player that would play for a London team.

And that bonus would have to be significant to not only account for the increase in the cost of living, but also to compensate those player for being so far away from home and family.

Maybe the owners think they can get more cash from London....but they will learn that the Players Union will demand a huge portion of that pound of flesh.

And, as a result, they will figure out that players will 10 times prefer to play in LA or SA than in Europe.

To them, London would be a nice place to visit in the off season.....or maybe once a decade play there.....but not as a permanent home.

 

I hope you're right, but I'm just not sure how that will shake down. At the very least there will be a formal proposal for a team in London, I'd bet my car on it.

 

 

what 'league' was HEHATEME in?

 

was that the XFL?

 

hey, i watched it. better than baseball or golf or soccer.

 

hottest trampiest cheerleaders ever.

 

I loved the XFL. The best rule in that whole league was fair catches were illegal. It failed because instead of letting it grow organically Vince McMahan threw all his money in at once and naturally lost it when it wasn't an instant success.

[Taco918]

 

 

I remember NFL Europe. I can't give you the answers you're looking for as I'm not privy to the NFL's information on the subject

Well, I just recited those facts. They were losing 30 million per year on the venture per reports. And the only team in England folded, leaving it primarily a German League.

 

. However I believe the common belief was that the lack of talent in the league and the view of it as a minor league of sorts resulted in its downfall. If they put a team there that competes with the big boys it might drum up more interest. I'm sure Europeans would love an opportunity to beat Americans at their own game as well.

Except it would not be Europeans beating Americans. At least for the foreseeable future any team in London is going to pretty much have all American players and all American coaches and front office. They may get some guy over there to become owner, but he would just be a money man.

 

As for the EPL putting a team here, I'm not sure, although every country has their own league. I'm not sure if it's just a remnant of that or they didn't like the prospects of going up against football, basketball, baseball and hockey. Plus the MLS is already pretty established.

 

Is Leeds United no longer around? I know they've been regulated a few times but I hadn't heard they completely folded.

In checking I didn't see any team in the 20 Premier League teams in Leeds. Maybe I missed something.

If a Leeds team was relegated that would be like making the Philadelphia Phillies or the Houston Astros a AAA team. (Oh, wait, the Astros essentially ARE a AAA team)

 

gft and Howie must be "on holiday" since neither of them have chimed in with their opinions on this subject. It would be good to know their thoughts.

Yeah Leeds United is still around. They're in what is basically the second division. I actually kind of dig the promotion/regulation concept. It would probably work best in basketball to prevent the whole tanking issue. It would be a shit storm in football.

 

It would be good to get the Brits take on the subject.

[Taco918]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't NFL Europe essentially the D-League for the NFL before it dissolved? If that's true it seems foolish to compare an actual franchise opprtunity to that. Look, I personally would dislike to see a team in London. But it's clear when NFL teams play there, people show up. Say what you will about Roger Goddell, but it's pretty well documented he's a savvy business leader who's increased the NFL as a brand significantly since he's arrived. I'd listen to and respect the argument of the brand being big enough already, but I'd argue that's not how the world works. It's 2014 and globalization is the key to success. I'm sure the NFL has incredible amounts of info we don't have on the viability of a team in London.

 

From a how it would work traveling perspective, I think you could create a system where teams mostly play London before a bye or on Thursdays (or another day possibly). Not ideal, but definitely plausible. It's definitely weird to think about but I call it like I see it, and at this point I'd bet that a London team experiment will happen.

I think the whole franchise vs d-league is the most likely view the NFL is taking on this.

[Taco918]

It is a joke that King Roger is still in power. His reign has been blatant disregard for the fans. His only goal is money....money....money

Umm, the owners hired him to make them more money. That's his job.

[MLD Woody]

Don't you know that older member on this forum know everything about life and the younger guys can't possibly understand how the world works?

smart man, you must be like 81

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Like ya.

[MLD Woody]

A team in London opens up a whole new market. TV markets would be a huge money get. That's why the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for that reason.

 

We already have the MLS. Why would the EPL put a team here?

 

NFL Europe was its own league, right? This team would be part of the NFL. Much different.

[The Gipper]

A team in London opens up a whole new market. TV markets would be a huge money get. That's why the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for that reason.

The European market has been opened up the NFL for years now. The NFL Europe began in 1991. You think 23 years isn't long enough for that market to open?

OK, maybe the London Lords will get good attendance, and sell a few T-shits and jerseys......but is it really all that great of a financial boost? Do yuo really think people in Paris, Rome, even Leeds or Liverpool will give a shit about the London Lords?

I maintain that the NFL could still make more with an LA Dons or the San Antonio Gauchos team than a London Lords team.

 

We already have the MLS. Why would the EPL put a team here?

Isn't it fair to say that the EPL looks at the MLS the way we looked at the NFL Europa League?

 

NFL Europe was its own league, right? This team would be part of the NFL. Much different.

The only real difference to the Europeans is that the London Lords would be playing teams from the US rather than teams from Germany. Fans there may actually get more excited playing teams from Germany. And they are not really equipped to tell that much difference in the quality of the product. At this point they don;'t know the difference between a top quality player and a D-Legue type player.

Some of our regs here might know, but the overall British populace? I doubt it.

[miktoxic]

the logistics alone don't make it profitable.

 

yap. yap. yap.

[jcam222]

It's bringing your product into a new market.

 

A new market brings the potential for a new revenue streams aka new/more fans, merchandise, as well as endorsement and tv deals to name a few.

 

That's more money that goes into the owners pockets.

 

That is the basic business perspective you guys seem to be struggling with.

 

It seems the NFL is sufficiently impressed with their previous forays in London the past few years that they believe it has enough of a fanbase to support a team, as well as become profitable to the league.

 

Now if you want to debate if the hosting of a few games a year is enough of an impetus to put a franchise there or if the success of those previous games equated more to a spectacle bore out of curiosity instead of actually fandom, go right ahead.

 

The basic business logic involved however, can't be disputed.

I think most of us understand the basic business concept. Some of that might even be true IF they were putting a new team there rather than relocating one. The increase will be nominal in terms of the overall current NFL revenue

[miktoxic]

would a 'bonus' of sorts be given to a team that flew to europe to play a game there? i mean the money it would cost the team would be pretty steep. i mean we're talking 8-9 hours from the east coast to get there.........and teams bitch already about going to opposite coasts on our mainland.

[Suomi]

Just...no.

[hoorta]

I don't know if it actually failed miserably...or that it even lost money. But it by no means made the kind of cash flow that the owners wanted. I am not sure if they had to subsidize it, but they weren't bringing in the profits they wanted.

 

Edit: in checking, it seems that by the time NFL Europe was folded in 2007 the NFL was subsidizing it to the tune of about $30 million per year. 5 of the 6 NFL Europe teams played in Germany.

 

So just a few years really, 7? they want to put a team back in London? Hell, that London team went from playing in 90,000 seat Wembly Stadium to the equivalent of a high school stadiums with about 7500-15,000 capacity, plus it move around between 3-4 different cities, including London, Birmingham and Bristol.

 

Yea, put teams in London and Birmingham....Ontario and Alabama.

 

Gip- $30 million to subsidize NFL Europe? Hello- that's pocket change to the NFL. about $1 million per owner- damn cheapskates. With multi billion TV revenue coming in? The concussion settlement is ultimately going to ring up about a billion or so I'd bet.

 

 

A team in London opens up a whole new market. TV markets would be a huge money get. That's why the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland for that reason.

 

We already have the MLS. Why would the EPL put a team here?

 

NFL Europe was its own league, right? This team would be part of the NFL. Much different.

 

For the same reason Goodell seems hellbent on putting an NFL team in EPL territory?

 

And I'll put it to you on (as most Americans) are soccer novistas terms. Apples to apples. Sure, I enjoyed the World Cup. When guys start commenting that so-and-sos midfielder had a shitty game, I said to myself WTF? I'm not that much into it to notice the difference. It would be the same if we put an NFL team in Europe. They'd be like a bunch of preppie Panthers fans- going to the game to be "cool" but not really knowing what's going on. US Parallel- people that show up at Super Bowl Parties to watch the commercials and halftime show. Yup Roger- their money (in whatever currency) is still as green, I suppose.