In the Film Room (Week 3-Ravens)

[wargograw]

We seem a little vulnerable to shallow routes early on. Flacco completed passes on his first 2nd and 3rd downs then a couple plays later again. I know Pitta and Daniels aren't that good. Certainly not Jimmy Graham's.

 

Sheard is pretty darn good.

 

After giving up a ton of yards on early in the series, we do a nice job rushing Flacco and forcing him to throw quickly, ultimately forcing a FG.

 

What's with the double reverses? This is the second or third so far this year. We ought to be able to run stuff like this with our small receivers, but would I do it in the first few games with a new staff? Probably not.

 

What's with all the Benji hate? Seen a lot of folks say he may be cut this year. I realize we have plenty of solid receivers, but I'm watching a guy that is super agile with great speed and a nice, skinny body (I like skinny receivers) that makes him hard to both tackle and press.

 

Don't understand the call at the goal line. Hand off to Agnew for basically no gain. I don't mind giving it to your fullback, but it was paired with zone blocking. Zone blocking with your fullback? I'm not an Xs and Os guy as I've said but this strikes me as dumb. If you're going to run the FB just let him go straight forward and pound it (like we did with West a play later) rather than try to flow one direction patiently waiting for the hole then cutting into it. Leave that for the real backs.

 

I'm assuming Desmond Bryant has to come pretty wide with his pass rush so he can maintain contain given the small front, but he's getting flushed upfield every time. Needs to tighten up the arc of his pass rush to me.

 

We manage to get 3rd and short (we're on offense) after it was 2nd and 24 but every route on 3rd down is shallow. Baltimore has everyone up and Hoyer has nowhere to throw. You've gotta send at least one guy downfield I would think. He's going to command at least one defender and more than likely two. Also Crowell needs to see Hoyer beginning to run and drive that DB away from the play (he was standing around with his hands on the DB but not driving him).

 

What a phenomenal job by Whitner of bearing as Taliaferro is coming at him full speed and managing to get the clean open field tackle. You don't see that kinda skill. Robertson allows the RT to get his hips turned inside of him (Robertson) so that he has no chance to get under and make the play. Gotta position yourself better and beat the block better. Hopefully this isn't a consistent theme with him.

 

Still gotta tackle better.

 

Forsett's got a great turbo button when he makes his cut behind zone blocks. Man it'll look like we have the blocks beaten, a hole opens for a split second, and before you even have time to close it Forsett's 5 yards downfield. That's brutal.

 

I know it's a little pointless to do any breakdown of Hoyer but I'm liking the way he's climbing up the pocket.

 

Robertson is unable to bring Flacco down after hanging on him for a good 2-3 seconds. This is, I think, a too little-taught component of good tackling. The best guys know how to use gravity to bring a big man down. They get their hands on a quarterback's upper body, sag their own body so that the QB is having to hold up their own weight plus the weight of them (the tackler), then use upper body strength/explosion to "yank" the QB down to the ground. If I remember, I'll try to find some clips of guys that do this well. Robertson is only 230, I get that, but he looks like me at 5 years old trying to bring my dad down to the ground. No one with the strength of an NFL LB should struggle THAT much to make the tackle.

 

On the last drive of the first half, I would have tried a couple shots down the middle of the field (the commentator noted this possibility). It just felt like we had some momentum after the defensive stand and this might have been possible. FG there would have tied the game up. Just saying.

 

In the New Orleans game, the commentators talked about how our OL is athletic enough to not have to use cut blocks on the back end of zone plays. Well, we saw some cuts in this one against what's obviously a much better defensive front.

 

The commentators are discussing Johnny's trick play in the second half, saying that CBS' officiating expert informed them the play was illegal because Johnny was within 5 yards of the "coaching box" (aka sideline, I think) and his shoulders weren't parallel to the line of scrimmage. Surely our coaches had to have known the rule? Even though we did get away with it, that doesn't excuse the fact that there appeared to be some blatant ignorance by the staff in drawing that one up.

 

Love me some Andy Hawkins.

 

Ok West's vision is actually pretty good in this game. Seems like his vision is kinda hot and cold. Regardless, the Crow is better. Tate should have been cut after this game. Heck of a block on the edge by Agnew. I'm excited about him now (and this is why I re watch these games!).

 

Has anyone broken down the college blocking schemes these guys ran behind? Both seem to be pretty adept running behind zone.

 

Can't let the dang fullback catch a screen pass and go 32 yards, but I understand they hadn't run one all game, were running it well, used play action, and we didn't see it coming. I just don't know how much speed we had on the back end of our defense. Maybe it's just misreads, but they've had too many big plays by slow guys that should have been caught much, much sooner.

 

Another reverse. This time blown up by Suggs for a 10 yard loss. Not a fan. Subsequently, a solid 9 yard pass to Hawkins merely puts us at 3rd and 11. Fortunately, Hawkins makes a brilliant play again on 3rd down to get the 1st. Love him.

 

More Justin Gilbert struggles.

 

How the heck does Gabriel fall over on that play?! What a route. What a throw! Man you've gotta complete that. Even with the stumble and fall, he still should have been able to score. He got up really slowly. Cost us 4 points (blocked kick cost us the other 3). Killer.

 

Really dumb play by Hoyer throwing the ball almost 5 yards past the LOS. He turned in a great game here but come on man.

 

Blocked kick. At this point we're deflated and give Baltimore free reign to run it down our throats, though we manage to hold them to a FG.

 

Couple consecutive ducks from Hoyer on the second to last drive. The second one is probably attributable to poor pass pro by Crowell. Not sure why we didn't burn more clock here. Unacceptable game management.

 

Thomas struggled on the last drive as he and Agnew blew a block that made for a negative Crowell run. Man, Hoyer really just couldn't throw accurately late after a brilliant start. I agree with the commentator that we should have run on 3rd and 7.

 

Boy am I glad we got that new punter. Hardly flipped the field at all and the Ravens barely had to move the ball at all in order to get the walk off FG. After stuffing a run play that started at about 42 seconds and ended at about 39, we let it run down to 32 before we use our timeout? Or did we have to burn it because of Robertson's injury? If not, then we waited way too long to call it. Forgive my lack of rules knowledge here.

 

Busting out the PFF stats to close this out: Cameron was terrible, posting a -4+. West wasn't good. Everyone else was solid and Bitonio came of age with a 2.1.

 

Defensively Kruger and Sheard are both over 2.5. Past that it gets pretty ugly. Negative numbers (and pretty significant ones at that) for every single DL that played and for that matter, negative numbers for everyone on defensive outside of Kruger and Sheard. Not to pick on Gilbert but he started the season with a -4.4 against Pittsburgh and -3.2 today. Without these two games, he actually turns in a very respectable 4.8.

[wargograw]

Robertson is unable to bring Flacco down after hanging on him for a good 2-3 seconds. This is, I think, a too little-taught component of good tackling. The best guys know how to use gravity to bring a big man down. They get their hands on a quarterback's upper body, sag their own body so that the QB is having to hold up their own weight plus the weight of them (the tackler), then use upper body strength/explosion to "yank" the QB down to the ground. If I remember, I'll try to find some clips of guys that do this well. Robertson is only 230, I get that, but he looks like me at 5 years old trying to bring my dad down to the ground. No one with the strength of an NFL LB should struggle THAT much to make the tackle.

 

Watch Freeney starting at :35. He uses this technique a ton because he's so small. Clay Matthews at 1:21. The dude from the Dolphins at 3:20 and 4:30. Damarcus Ware at 5:29.

 

Now you approach the quarterback if you're coming in fast and free with a double-armed club under the shoulders (fists pointing up, like a chin up but reverse motion), a wrap around the waist, a single-armed club of the ball, or some combination thereof. Some guys will also just jump on the quarterback up high. If you come freely and you've built up speed, you're not likely to have much trouble bringing the quarterback down once you get your hands on him because you have so much momentum.

 

However, if it's a situation where you bull rush and push the OT back into the pocket then slip away from him to grab the quarterback, then you don't have much time to build up any speed between shedding the blocker and hitting the quarterback.

 

This is where you've got to put your arms around the QB at whatever level of his body is appropriate for the situation, then as I said, pull your weight towards the ground while hanging on to him. Simultaneously your arms will have slipped to his waist and at that point you need to use your upper body to pull his waist (if you're behind him) and "fold the chair," if you will. You pull that waist, his body will fold, then he'll have no stability and that, combined with the weight of your body hanging on him, will make the QB coming down inevitable.

[Tour2ma]

Kinda getting into this aren't we? Cool...

 

Per request here are the old links to:

 

O-line grades - http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30358&hl=week

 

Game Impressions - http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30335&hl=week

[The Gipper]

We seem a little vulnerable to shallow routes early on. Flacco completed passes on his first 2nd and 3rd downs then a couple plays later again. I know Pitta and Daniels aren't that good. Certainly not Jimmy Graham's.

 

Sheard is pretty darn good.

 

After giving up a ton of yards on early in the series, we do a nice job rushing Flacco and forcing him to throw quickly, ultimately forcing a FG.

 

What's with the double reverses? This is the second or third so far this year. We ought to be able to run stuff like this with our small receivers, but would I do it in the first few games with a new staff? Probably not.

 

What's with all the Benji hate? Seen a lot of folks say he may be cut this year. I realize we have plenty of solid receivers, but I'm watching a guy that is super agile with great speed and a nice, skinny body (I like skinny receivers) that makes him hard to both tackle and press.

 

Don't understand the call at the goal line. Hand off to Agnew for basically no gain. I don't mind giving it to your fullback, but it was paired with zone blocking. Zone blocking with your fullback? I'm not an Xs and Os guy as I've said but this strikes me as dumb. If you're going to run the FB just let him go straight forward and pound it (like we did with West a play later) rather than try to flow one direction patiently waiting for the hole then cutting into it. Leave that for the real backs.

 

I'm assuming Desmond Bryant has to come pretty wide with his pass rush so he can maintain contain given the small front, but he's getting flushed upfield every time. Needs to tighten up the arc of his pass rush to me.

 

We manage to get 3rd and short (we're on offense) after it was 2nd and 24 but every route on 3rd down is shallow. Baltimore has everyone up and Hoyer has nowhere to throw. You've gotta send at least one guy downfield I would think. He's going to command at least one defender and more than likely two. Also Crowell needs to see Hoyer beginning to run and drive that DB away from the play (he was standing around with his hands on the DB but not driving him).

 

What a phenomenal job by Whitner of bearing as Taliaferro is coming at him full speed and managing to get the clean open field tackle. You don't see that kinda skill. Robertson allows the RT to get his hips turned inside of him (Robertson) so that he has no chance to get under and make the play. Gotta position yourself better and beat the block better. Hopefully this isn't a consistent theme with him.

 

Still gotta tackle better.

 

Forsett's got a great turbo button when he makes his cut behind zone blocks. Man it'll look like we have the blocks beaten, a hole opens for a split second, and before you even have time to close it Forsett's 5 yards downfield. That's brutal.

 

I know it's a little pointless to do any breakdown of Hoyer but I'm liking the way he's climbing up the pocket.

 

Robertson is unable to bring Flacco down after hanging on him for a good 2-3 seconds. This is, I think, a too little-taught component of good tackling. The best guys know how to use gravity to bring a big man down. They get their hands on a quarterback's upper body, sag their own body so that the QB is having to hold up their own weight plus the weight of them (the tackler), then use upper body strength/explosion to "yank" the QB down to the ground. If I remember, I'll try to find some clips of guys that do this well. Robertson is only 230, I get that, but he looks like me at 5 years old trying to bring my dad down to the ground. No one with the strength of an NFL LB should struggle THAT much to make the tackle.

 

On the last drive of the first half, I would have tried a couple shots down the middle of the field (the commentator noted this possibility). It just felt like we had some momentum after the defensive stand and this might have been possible. FG there would have tied the game up. Just saying.

 

In the New Orleans game, the commentators talked about how our OL is athletic enough to not have to use cut blocks on the back end of zone plays. Well, we saw some cuts in this one against what's obviously a much better defensive front.

 

The commentators are discussing Johnny's trick play in the second half, saying that CBS' officiating expert informed them the play was illegal because Johnny was within 5 yards of the "coaching box" (aka sideline, I think) and his shoulders weren't parallel to the line of scrimmage. Surely our coaches had to have known the rule? Even though we did get away with it, that doesn't excuse the fact that there appeared to be some blatant ignorance by the staff in drawing that one up.

 

Love me some Andy Hawkins.

 

Ok West's vision is actually pretty good in this game. Seems like his vision is kinda hot and cold. Regardless, the Crow is better. Tate should have been cut after this game. Heck of a block on the edge by Agnew. I'm excited about him now (and this is why I re watch these games!).

 

Has anyone broken down the college blocking schemes these guys ran behind? Both seem to be pretty adept running behind zone.

 

Can't let the dang fullback catch a screen pass and go 32 yards, but I understand they hadn't run one all game, were running it well, used play action, and we didn't see it coming. I just don't know how much speed we had on the back end of our defense. Maybe it's just misreads, but they've had too many big plays by slow guys that should have been caught much, much sooner.

 

Another reverse. This time blown up by Suggs for a 10 yard loss. Not a fan. Subsequently, a solid 9 yard pass to Hawkins merely puts us at 3rd and 11. Fortunately, Hawkins makes a brilliant play again on 3rd down to get the 1st. Love him.

 

More Justin Gilbert struggles.

 

How the heck does Gabriel fall over on that play?! What a route. What a throw! Man you've gotta complete that. Even with the stumble and fall, he still should have been able to score. He got up really slowly. Cost us 4 points (blocked kick cost us the other 3). Killer.

 

Really dumb play by Hoyer throwing the ball almost 5 yards past the LOS. He turned in a great game here but come on man.

 

Blocked kick. At this point we're deflated and give Baltimore free reign to run it down our throats, though we manage to hold them to a FG.

 

Couple consecutive ducks from Hoyer on the second to last drive. The second one is probably attributable to poor pass pro by Crowell. Not sure why we didn't burn more clock here. Unacceptable game management.

 

Thomas struggled on the last drive as he and Agnew blew a block that made for a negative Crowell run. Man, Hoyer really just couldn't throw accurately late after a brilliant start. I agree with the commentator that we should have run on 3rd and 7.

 

Boy am I glad we got that new punter. Hardly flipped the field at all and the Ravens barely had to move the ball at all in order to get the walk off FG. After stuffing a run play that started at about 42 seconds and ended at about 39, we let it run down to 32 before we use our timeout? Or did we have to burn it because of Robertson's injury? If not, then we waited way too long to call it. Forgive my lack of rules knowledge here.

 

Busting out the PFF stats to close this out: Cameron was terrible, posting a -4+. West wasn't good. Everyone else was solid and Bitonio came of age with a 2.1.

 

Defensively Kruger and Sheard are both over 2.5. Past that it gets pretty ugly. Negative numbers (and pretty significant ones at that) for every single DL that played and for that matter, negative numbers for everyone on defensive outside of Kruger and Sheard. Not to pick on Gilbert but he started the season with a -4.4 against Pittsburgh and -3.2 today. Without these two games, he actually turns in a very respectable 4.8.

Suggestion: It seems that you are going through the film of each game and mostly making comments about what happens on certain plays. That is fine, but if possible can you identify the play by quarter and approximate time, like: 2d qtr 10:48 mark Along those lines. You are doing a good job on this but this could help us follow the progression of the game as you are commenting.

If possible....as it has been 9-10 months since we have seen these games.

[wargograw]

No problem Gip. Will do.

[Mudfly]

Sheard is pretty darn good.

 

What's with all the Benji hate? Seen a lot of folks say he may be cut this year. I realize we have plenty of solid receivers, but I'm watching a guy that is super agile with great speed and a nice, skinny body (I like skinny receivers) that makes him hard to both tackle and press.

 

I'm assuming Desmond Bryant has to come pretty wide with his pass rush so he can maintain contain given the small front, but he's getting flushed upfield every time. Needs to tighten up the arc of his pass rush to me.

 

What a phenomenal job by Whitner

 

 

Surely our coaches had to have known the rule? Even though we did get away with it, that doesn't excuse the fact that there appeared to be some blatant ignorance by the staff in drawing that one up.

 

Heck of a block on the edge by Agnew. I'm excited about him now (and this is why I re watch these games!).

 

Busting out the PFF stats to close this out: Cameron was terrible, posting a -4+.

 

Not to pick on Gilbert but he started the season with a -4.4 against Pittsburgh and -3.2 today. Without these two games, he actually turns in a very respectable 4.8.

Yep...think well miss Sheard. Always one of my favorite players, tho I do realize he wasn't a great fit for our scheme. Billychuck will use him well. Look for folks to start cryin when he does...

 

Benji hate?....Haven't heard anyone "hate" him, though Ive seen plenty(myself included) that feel his production is well below average......which it is. Yes, he did have a few good catches this year....but hasnt proven to be a reliable productive receiver or someone that demands attention from the D....

 

Desmond needs to tighten up his entire game. Pass rush and run stopping. Another one who flashes on occassion, but isnt consistent or strong in any area of his game.....he's on my invisible bubble......

 

Whitner....solid as hell. An outstanding pick up last year and quickly becoming one of my favorite players....

 

Rules?.....talk to Shanny about that.....maybe being under Daddy all those years convinced him that the rules didnt apply to him.....or maybe he was just too smart to check em before calling the play.....dunno, but glad he's gone.....

 

Agnew?......dont get too excited....hes long gone.....(tho I do believe he's a Cowboy now, so y'all can still watch him)

 

Cameron?....scored low all year.....another one I wont miss......

 

And, finally, my boy Gilbert....(yes-terrible weeks 1 & 3)....but thanks for pointing out that those 2 weeks pretty much drove the bus for his season(a point Ive tried to make several times).....we heard how bad he sucked all year, even though it was basically just those 2 games.....and, as you noted, w/o those 2 games he has the second highest CB score on the team.....meaning he played quite well in some of those games...

 

All good notes btw......rewatching those games always gives a better perspective.....13 more to go.....ha!

Suggestion: It seems that you are going through the film of each game and mostly making comments about what happens on certain plays. You are doing a good job on this but this could help us follow the progression of the game as you are commenting.

If possible....as it has been 9-10 months since we have seen these games.

Agreed.... it kind of reads like live tavern commentary about a game Im not watching....very hard to follow.....(and Ive watched em all about 5 times)...ha!....

 

Will say Wargos Steelers game thread inspired me to go back and watch again yesterday....though I picked the second game, which was much more fun....

[wargograw]

I know it's not hate per se, just couldn't think of a good word to use. Benji must have averaged out throughout the year because through these three I like what I've seen.

 

Why is Agnew gone? I see he was cut midseason.

 

Love Gilbert's body type. Lots of potential there. I'm with you, I think he'll be great in short order.

 

I know my comments are kinda random. I had tried to give a little bit of context about each play and its result as I mentioned them. I'll start adding the exact time in the game though.

 

Tour, are you an OL guy almost exclusively or can you grade other positions just as well? I do best with OL so if you wanted to let me take that grading over this year then you could do another. Not trying to hone in on your territory just wondering if you wanted to broaden the grades. If not it's cool.

[jrb12711]

 

Benji hate?....Haven't heard anyone "hate" him, though Ive seen plenty(myself included) that feel his production is well below average......which it is. Yes, he did have a few good catches this year....but hasnt proven to be a reliable productive receiver or someone that demands attention from the D....

 

 

I think the thing about him that really concerns me is he was playing scared on kick returns last year, at least IMO. Could be because ofthe knee injurybut he went from a potential weapon on kicks/punts to a mediocre at best WR. I agree with ya and frankly wouldn't be too concerned to see him gone altogether.

[tiamat63]

Knee injuries are not only the worse physically, but psychologically as well.

 

More to the point, Benji has long strides for a receiver of his size. Great straight line speed but he isn't overly shifty from the slot.

 

You may like 'skinny' wide receivers but I like my pass catches to hAve the strength to be able to get off the line against jams.

[Mudfly]

 

I think the thing about him that really concerns me is he was playing scared on kick returns last year, at least IMO.

Definitely looked scared and, I think, that notion was confirmed by the coaching staff that pulled him by...what?....the 3 rd game or so?.....anyhow, if he wants to stay, he'll need to get his head straight with the return game....

 

You may like 'skinny' wide receivers but I like my pass catches to hAve the strength to be able to get off the line against jams.

....and to go up and win some contested balls......and to stay upright after a hit.....cause he usually goes down like a sack of potatoes at 1st contact......

 

For a team that supposedly is desperate for WR's, 18 catches in 16 games is not good if you ask me.....

 

Remember how terrible Greg Little was?......His last 2 years here, he had 94 catches for 1100+ yards.....Comparably, over 3 years, Benji has 41 catches for 700+ yds(yes, thats 3 years worth).......

 

And remember how Josh Gordon got lambasted last season for how he played those last few games?.....yet, in just 5 games and playing "terribly", he caught more passes than Benji did in 16 games.....

 

So...not to turn this into a smash Benji thread, but a few good catches here and there is really all he gave us.....we need much better than that to win!

[wargograw]

Ok Benji aside, big receivers have their faults too. Less agility, bigger frame for DBs to get their hands on (this is my biggest reason), less foot quickness (also helps one get off and/or avoid a press), less breakaway speed, etc.

 

Yeah of course everyone wants Julio Jones and Calvin Johnson (or Josh Gordon), but that's not always realistic. At the same height and speed, I'd rather have the thinner guy than thicker.

[Tour2ma]

Why is Agnew gone? I see he was cut midseason.

 

Tour, are you an OL guy almost exclusively or can you grade other positions just as well? I do best with OL so if you wanted to let me take that grading over this year then you could do another. Not trying to hone in on your territory just wondering if you wanted to broaden the grades. If not it's cool.

I do O-line because it's what I love plus it's about all that you can do from the typical broadcast shot. I would welcome any input you have.

 

On Agnew... finally decided we did not need a FB that could neither block nor catch... but it took two looks to determine that.