Cielo Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Donald Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Rumor has it, Andre Johnson is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Im confused as to why some people are worried about money. We have so much cap space, from my understanding its hovering around 24 mil. If anyone can provide a large contract its us. Decker is worth the money. I want a proven wr that is strong and tall. Also, we need to take the pressure off of Gordon. They may have a lot of cap space, but they still have to worry about money. Having that money...you want to put it to good use, not piss it away with bad decisions. I, for one, have no confidence in Mike Lombardi to not make poor personell decisions. So you have that factor to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm agreed that there is no point in pissing away cap space. No point in going all Dan Snyder or Al Davis. That being said, the Browns are almost always too conservative with money, which is why almost every off-season we're talking about how much cap space there is, but the team never gets better. It's only better to have it if, at some point, you spend it productively. If you just hold onto it year after year after year, in a practical sense, you're just playing with a lower salary cap than everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBrowns! Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Decker would be a fantastic purchase, ha. Gordon in my opinion is the best in the league 14 games with that amount of production is amazing. This guy is a manimal, but with regard to the other wideouts on the browns, Gordon's play is polar opposite. I want a balanced field and Decker will give us that equilibrium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 These are the guys I want, but could easily see them only going after one middle-to-top tier FA and doing the rest in the draft. Riley Cooper WR, should come cheap, good player. Much better Cooper than the one currently on roster. Jon Asomoah OG, spend some cash, get a stud interior lineman. Lauvao has always been trash, not sure where Greco will play next year.... C or G? Depends on Macks future. Either way, if they don't get him, draft multiple guards. Ben Tate RB, at the right price. If not draft two RBs. Alterraun Verner would be amazing at CB. Not sure they want to invest a lot of cash in a CB, but he's the guy to spend it on if they want. See them drafting one instead. That's it. Cooper and Asomoah would be good grabs, IMO. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 These are the guys I want, but could easily see them only going after one middle-to-top tier FA and doing the rest in the draft. Riley Cooper WR, should come cheap, good player. Much better Cooper than the one currently on roster. Jon Asomoah OG, spend some cash, get a stud interior lineman. Lauvao has always been trash, not sure where Greco will play next year.... C or G? Depends on Macks future. Either way, if they don't get him, draft multiple guards. Ben Tate RB, at the right price. If not draft two RBs. Alterraun Verner would be amazing at CB. Not sure they want to invest a lot of cash in a CB, but he's the guy to spend it on if they want. See them drafting one instead. That's it. I can get behind this one for sure. I would like to see the addition of Jarius Byrd though. Add him and we have the best secondary in football, upgrade OL and stud RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Donald Butler is another name to keep an eye on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I'm agreed that there is no point in pissing away cap space. No point in going all Dan Snyder or Al Davis. That being said, the Browns are almost always too conservative with money, which is why almost every off-season we're talking about how much cap space there is, but the team never gets better. It's only better to have it if, at some point, you spend it productively. If you just hold onto it year after year after year, in a practical sense, you're just playing with a lower salary cap than everyone else. Well, I don't think under the new CBA that a team can go all that much lower than other teams on their salary. I believe, perhaps starting as early as this year teams MUST pay like 90-95% of the cap space to players. In other words, their is a floor as well as a cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralcow Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Good news to my ears if they use it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I need to hear what we plan on doing with the defense before I make opinions on FA's. If we stay in the 3-4 I would absolutely suggest targeting Orakpo. If someone would take Krugers contract off our hands that would work out well. If we go to the 4-3 than that Cincy guy might not be a bad idea. Getting rid of Kruger would be a mistake, I understand that his numbers were nothing special, but he played contain the majority of the time...Kruger is our best LB, especially against the run. There is no such thing as a 3-4 or 4-3 in Pettine's defense...much like Horton's it will be about matchups, personnel and situation on a week by week basis. Our front 7 has one glaring hole...Inside Linebacker...even if DQ is back (I suspect he will be gone) Robertson is a backup at best, if they cut DQ I could see them getting a decent ILB in FA and drafting one... an investment in the salary Orakpo would command in FA (if he even gets to FA) would leave us hard pressed to resign any young talent we have started to see creep up... The FO will try to resolve the majority of issues in the Draft, spend that salary cap to invest in its young players and build from there...which I think is exactly what I want to see them do. We are a QB away from being a winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin J Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Well, I don't think under the new CBA that a team can go all that much lower than other teams on their salary. I believe, perhaps starting as early as this year teams MUST pay like 90-95% of the cap space to players. In other words, their is a floor as well as a cap.it started last year I believe, and its 90% over a rolling 3 year period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Getting rid of Kruger would be a mistake, I understand that his numbers were nothing special, but he played contain the majority of the time...Kruger is our best LB, especially against the run. There is no such thing as a 3-4 or 4-3 in Pettine's defense...much like Horton's it will be about matchups, personnel and situation on a week by week basis. Our front 7 has one glaring hole...Inside Linebacker...even if DQ is back (I suspect he will be gone) Robertson is a backup at best, if they cut DQ I could see them getting a decent ILB in FA and drafting one... an investment in the salary Orakpo would command in FA (if he even gets to FA) would leave us hard pressed to resign any young talent we have started to see creep up... The FO will try to resolve the majority of issues in the Draft, spend that salary cap to invest in its young players and build from there...which I think is exactly what I want to see them do. We are a QB away from being a winning team. Nice summary, why do you think they will cut DQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nice summary, why do you think they will cut DQ?His contract outweighs his production. They'll either restructure or cut him. My guess is they'll be able to restructure. He actually has a bonus due in march, that they probably don't wanna give him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nice summary, why do you think they will cut DQ? Because he is very average, really, and would cost too much money to keep him. Money that could be used on better players. Really, can anyone here say that "D'Qwell Jackson is a defensive difference maker". I, for one, cannot. Serviceable, maybe, but he is NOT an impact player. I think this team can really use an impact player at ILB. In fact, to my mind ILB is probably the #2 personell priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcam222 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I disagree that he is average. He likely would not last long on the FA market in my opinion. He is also a high character solid leader on the team and that is important. This team (especially after the Chud fiasco) has got to show some loyalty somewhere. If they don't we wont even be able to overpay players to come here. I would hope at the very least we could do a contract restructure. If you get rid of DQ you need two ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I disagree that he is average. He likely would not last long on the FA market in my opinion. He is also a high character solid leader on the team and that is important. This team (especially after the Chud fiasco) has got to show some loyalty somewhere. If they don't we wont even be able to overpay players to come here. I would hope at the very least we could do a contract restructure. If you get rid of DQ you need two ILB. I agree that DQJ would not last long on the FA market....and that he is high character and a leader...and that that is important. But, as far as I am concerned, none of those raise his talent level which IS average. Everything you say may be reasons to keep him....and I am fine if they do keep him as that veteran leader. (It ain't my money so WTF do I care what they pay him). But, in keeping him, I also feel that the need to find and develop his.....more talented...replacement. (but, yes, I also agree that we do need 2 ILBs....both he and Robertson are not top talent....and maybe we will have to go about it slowly and get a replacement for only one. That doesn't change the analysis) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taco918 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 We need to stick with the draft for offensive skill positions. No point in spending big money on a player with question marks (Decker w/o Manning, Tate and injuries ect) when you can draft a younger player with more potential on the cheap. Sure it's a risk, all signings are, but if you don't hit on a draft pick your not stuck with 10, 20, 30 mil worth of dead money on your cap. Look at the Cowboys and Raiders. The Cowboys will be struggling to restructure contracts just to stay a hair under the cap for years to come and the Raiders have finally after this past year cleaned up their books from Al Davis. How long has he been gone? Edit: I guess I should specify what I believe we should do with our cap space. Keep our own (Ward and Mack), look to pick up some OL, ILB, and CB depth on the cheap (although I could handle a bit of a splurge for G) and start preparing offers for Haden and Cameron. We have a good, young foundation to build upon, which we acquired from the draft I should add. Lock up the foundation and keep adding young pieces. This is the closest we've been to having a legit team since 99. There's no reason to change course now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Nice summary, why do you think they will cut DQ? I think they will cut him because since this is a match-up type of defense and not a base defense system... DQ's physical abilities do not provide enough return for his cap number and bonus number. DQ has been one of my favorite players since 99' but he is much better suited for a system that run a more traditional 4-3 as a system as he will not create the positive match up for this system to be it's most effective. As Phil Jackson has been the zen master to controlling egos Banner (whether you like him or not) has been the zen master of managing salary cap ...below is a link to a story from 2012..the quotes from Joe Banner tell me that he takes a very analytically approach to connecting value to a player... when I let go of what I like about DQ as a leader I would be shocked to see us retain him.... http://articles.mcall.com/2012-04-28/sports/mc-eagles-salary-cap-0428-20120428_1_salary-cap-desean-jackson-eagles-president-joe-banner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I disagree that he is average. He likely would not last long on the FA market in my opinion. He is also a high character solid leader on the team and that is important. This team (especially after the Chud fiasco) has got to show some loyalty somewhere. If they don't we wont even be able to overpay players to come here. I would hope at the very least we could do a contract restructure. If you get rid of DQ you need two ILB. The sentiment of loyalty and character is overvalued when it comes to evaluating talent, which is harsh and kind of a dick thing to say, but it is true...I would imagine the front office response to the question of what it owes the fan is ... " a winner" and if they feel that a player, no matter how loyal, is not putting them in the best position to win - see you later- the impulsive side of me says "dude you are an asshole Joe Banner" but when I put it in the context of winning I say " Thank you Joe Banner for being the asshole necessary for us to win" Now we just have to start winning..which will come with a championship level QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think they will cut him because since this is a match-up type of defense and not a base defense system... DQ's physical abilities do not provide enough return for his cap number and bonus number. DQ has been one of my favorite players since 99' but he is much better suited for a system that run a more traditional 4-3 as a system as he will not create the positive match up for this system to be it's most effective. As Phil Jackson has been the zen master to controlling egos Banner (whether you like him or not) has been the zen master of managing salary cap ...below is a link to a story from 2012..the quotes from Joe Banner tell me that he takes a very analytically approach to connecting value to a player... when I let go of what I like about DQ as a leader I would be shocked to see us retain him.... http://articles.mcall.com/2012-04-28/sports/mc-eagles-salary-cap-0428-20120428_1_salary-cap-desean-jackson-eagles-president-joe-banner OK, that all sounds good.....but what really kept the Eagles winning? Was it Banner's machinations with the salary cap, or the coaching of Andy Reid. Reid took the 2-14 Chiefs to like a 12-4 record this year. And whatever wizardy it may be thought that Banner brings to the salary cap situation, it didn't keep this team from going 4-12. But, of course, they blame that all on Chudzinski. Well, here is the deal.....though you may have a wizard at the salary cap....and I think that Banner may very well be that.....you have to have the right guy putting the right talent in front of that wizard, and right now, it could be say that Banner's Apprentice (Lombardi), may be more in the order of this: http://youtu.be/mHTnJNGvQcA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 You know, that sorcerer bears a striking resemblance to Banner...if Banner had a beard and were bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 OK, that all sounds good.....but what really kept the Eagles winning? Was it Banner's machinations with the salary cap, or the coaching of Andy Reid. Reid took the 2-14 Chiefs to like a 12-4 record this year. And whatever wizardy it may be thought that Banner brings to the salary cap situation, it didn't keep this team from going 4-12. But, of course, they blame that all on Chudzinski. Well, here is the deal.....though you may have a wizard at the salary cap....and I think that Banner may very well be that.....you have to have the right guy putting the right talent in front of that wizard, and right now, it could be say that Banner's Apprentice (Lombardi), may be more in the order of this: http://youtu.be/mHTnJNGvQcA I think people have the tendency to assign blame or praise on individuals too quick too often. Andy Reid and Joe Banner individually were not the reason for the sustained success of Philly nor was Andy Reid the reason for the Chiefs success or Banner (or Lombardi) for the Browns failures... they are all pieces in a bigger puzzle. Andy Reid was the right piece to a puzzle which included 8 probowlers and a #1 pick and the addition of a solid QB... Lombardi seems to be running his department like the majority of other GM's in the league...stay behind the scenes, collect the information and recommendations from your staff and communicate your recommendations to the rest of the FO, Ray Farmer by most accounts is in charge of another team of people looking at the draft (who everyone is so high on) while Lombardi seems to do more with FA... I personally prefer an organization that goes through a process to make decisions than have a GM who wants to just make decisions. So we can only measure Lombardi's success not on individual decisions but how he is managing the process to give the right decision. The Browns just need to win. Getting rid of Lombardi/Banner?Haslem is not the solution any of us should want...everything they have done since coming in tells me that there are consistently good times ahead... but it will not be perfect (when is it ever) but I am bought in to the FO when they saw a mistake, fired chud and took on all of the fallout for the sake of doing what they think is the way to give us a consistently winning team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 You know, that sorcerer bears a striking resemblance to Banner...if Banner had a beard and were bald. HAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think people have the tendency to assign blame or praise on individuals too quick too often. Andy Reid and Joe Banner individually were not the reason for the sustained success of Philly nor was Andy Reid the reason for the Chiefs success or Banner (or Lombardi) for the Browns failures... they are all pieces in a bigger puzzle. Andy Reid was the right piece to a puzzle which included 8 probowlers and a #1 pick and the addition of a solid QB... Lombardi seems to be running his department like the majority of other GM's in the league...stay behind the scenes, collect the information and recommendations from your staff and communicate your recommendations to the rest of the FO, Ray Farmer by most accounts is in charge of another team of people looking at the draft (who everyone is so high on) while Lombardi seems to do more with FA... I personally prefer an organization that goes through a process to make decisions than have a GM who wants to just make decisions. So we can only measure Lombardi's success not on individual decisions but how he is managing the process to give the right decision. The Browns just need to win. Getting rid of Lombardi/Banner?Haslem is not the solution any of us should want...everything they have done since coming in tells me that there are consistently good times ahead... but it will not be perfect (when is it ever) but I am bought in to the FO when they saw a mistake, fired chud and took on all of the fallout for the sake of doing what they think is the way to give us a consistently winning team. IF you say the word "process" one more time, I and a couple of dozen other people on here are going to want to kick you in the gonads. You can defend Lombardi all you want.....but he has a track record of failure....of making poor choices, and he has to live with the consequences of his past and present failures. Those consequences are: mistrust by the fan base.....and a period of trial and tribulation. So....bottom line, you are right. Whatever fucking process he wants to engage in has to be successful....has to be successful now. We no longer need post middle age sorcerer's apprentices mucking stuff up here. His apprenticeship is over. He MUST make magic and make it now. He has until about December 31st this year, otherwise he can be shipped off to Azkhaban or wherever they imprison failed sorcerers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEinCHI Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 IF you say the word "process" one more time, I and a couple of dozen other people on here are going to want to kick you in the gonads. You can defend Lombardi all you want.....but he has a track record of failure....of making poor choices, and he has to live with the consequences of his past and present failures. Those consequences are: mistrust by the fan base.....and a period of trial and tribulation. So....bottom line, you are right. Whatever fucking process he wants to engage in has to be successful....has to be successful now. We no longer need post middle age sorcerer's apprentices mucking stuff up here. His apprenticeship is over. He MUST make magic and make it now. He has until about December 31st this year, otherwise he can be shipped off to Azkhaban or wherever they imprison failed sorcerers. "Mucking stuff up" implies that there was something positive to "muck up" - but hey you are right he does have until about December 31st this year to show things are working. Process is crap unless there are results... That brings up a good question though... It is Dec 31 2014 what does success look like to you, or anyone? What would it take for you to say, "OK this is working"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 "Mucking stuff up" implies that there was something positive to "muck up" - but hey you are right he does have until about December 31st this year to show things are working. Process is crap unless there are results... That brings up a good question though... It is Dec 31 2014 what does success look like to you, or anyone? Ask me on Dec. 30 What would it take for you to say, "OK this is working"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 OK, that all sounds good.....but what really kept the Eagles winning? Was it Banner's machinations with the salary cap, or the coaching of Andy Reid. Reid took the 2-14 Chiefs to like a 12-4 record this year. And whatever wizardy it may be thought that Banner brings to the salary cap situation, it didn't keep this team from going 4-12. But, of course, they blame that all on Chudzinski. Well, here is the deal.....though you may have a wizard at the salary cap....and I think that Banner may very well be that.....you have to have the right guy putting the right talent in front of that wizard, and right now, it could be say that Banner's Apprentice (Lombardi), may be more in the order of this: http://youtu.be/mHTnJNGvQcA I think the acquisition of Alex Smith had a little to do with it. When you have a good defense, an efficient quarterback makes all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think the acquisition of Alex Smith had a little to do with it. When you have a good defense, an efficient quarterback makes all the difference. Fair enough. I do think there is a lot to that. Is our defense that good that an efficient QB, be that Hoyer or Cousins or a rookie make that difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbedward Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think the acquisition of Alex Smith had a little to do with it. When you have a good defense, an efficient quarterback makes all the difference. I think Alex smith is a very average but efficient QB. I think Andy Reid had a lot more to do with it than smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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